258 thoughts on “Making their own SFL lists”

    1. I’ve been in IFB churches from infancy to about two years ago. None of them ever stressed feeding the hungry, unless it was to mock those liberal churches who were “too involved with the social gospel to give the news of salvation.” Five churches in all plus the ones I visited in the six years I was at BJU and I never heard of a ministry that fed the poor.

      When our church used a VBS program from GROUP a couple years ago, the suggested ministry outreach was collecting new shoes for an overseas charity. It felt really WEIRD doing that! We’d always collected money and given it to a missionary before.

      1. I totally agree, PW. Years ago my grandmother’s Methodist church organized a “Blue Jean Sunday” to donate blue jeans to kids starting school without new school clothes. My mother refused to donate because she told my grandmother that she would only donate if they were going “share the gospel” when they distributed the jeans. My grandmother pointed out that distributing the jeans WAS “sharing the gospel.” My mother was furious. One of the many times that she accused my grandmother of “not being saved.”

    2. They feed and clothe the poor as long as “the poor” is part of the tithing congregation. They say they love people of like faith. Screw the rest of the godless heathens. They can help themselves.

    3. My ifb pastor father and the church he pastored fed and clothed the poor. His church had a food pantry that also contained clothes, and throughout the week people would come and receive food and clothes for free. My dad made sure that the congregation kept the food pantry stocked.

      On a personal level, I remember my dad bringing home hungry families and panhandlers to share our dinner with. Being an ifb pastor, his salary was quite small, and it was a struggle at times to put food on the table for our family, much less feed strangers in need.

      This example was also seen in several of the ifb churches that my dad fellowshipped with. He and many of his ifb pastor friends would spend a couple of evenings a week volunteering at the local homeless shelters. He would take me and my siblings. We would help serve food and then, of course, be forced to listen to a sermon. When I would complain about having to help my dad dish out food, my dad would tell me that Jesus commanded us to feed and clothe the poor.

      1. That is AWESOME that your dad did that. I honestly did not see that in any of the IFB churches I’ve been in. Mostly I heard preaching about how that focusing on giving food to the poor was the social gospel and distracted Christians from giving out the Gospel.

        It IS in Scripture so I’m glad that at least SOME IFB churches were obeying Christ’s command.

  1. “Feeding the poor” and “clothing the poor” – don’t recall IFB flocking to care for hungry, naked poor folks, unless they expect them to eat and clothe themselves with tracts and Bibles.

  2. “leather lunged Bible preaching”? Is this a form of “lung” (which would imply heavy smoking) or “lunge” (which would imply things best left in his bedroom)?

    1. I think it refers to “lungs of leather”, meaning the preacher can yell and yell and yell.

      Even when I was a fundamentalist, I didn’t like people yelling at me.

    2. I like your second interpretation better! Evil! Wicked! ๐Ÿ˜ˆ Shocking! Now I have to go self-flagellate myself for thinking the kind of thoughts that give one a terminal case of the giggles when you apply them to the local MOG.
      Heard of a Catholic Church that finally announced, “No More Sex Toy Bingo”, what were the circumstances behind that, I wonder.

    3. I like your second interpretation better! Evil! ๐Ÿ˜ฎ Wicked! ๐Ÿ˜ˆ Shocking! ๐Ÿ˜‰ Now I have to go self-flagellate myself for thinking the kind of thoughts that give one a terminal case of the giggles when you apply them to the local MOG.
      Heard of a Catholic Church that finally announced, “No More Sex Toy Bingo”, what were the circumstances behind that, I wonder.

        1. That logic is closer than they would care to admit to how fundies think. Fundie golden rule: If the preacher likes it, it’s not a sin. (Also: If it makes the preacher mad, then it’s a sin.)

  3. After “Love for churches of like faith and order” he forgot the corollary, “Judgment for churches not of like faith and/or order.”

    And what the heck is a “spiritual schedule”?

    1. Dear mounty:

      I asked myself the same question. My guess is that it is an attempt at the Roman Catholic idea of spiritual practices [ http://www.renovare.us/ ], which has [for good reasons, in my opinion], gained traction in Protestant circles. However IFB churches are not nearly so good at it as RCs.

      No, I’m not RC [not that it matters] … so don’t ask … :mrgreen:

      Christian Socialist

    2. I think this list reveals so much!

      He says they love churches that are just like they are. Jesus said, “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even โ€˜sinnersโ€™ love those who love them. . . But love your enemies, do good to them.” (Luke 6)

    3. I’m thinking that “spiritual schedule” might be referring to the “three to thrive” that we heard growing up (go to church Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night). Would also mean giving your Saturdays with the family for visitation, etc. An IFB family member thinks our church is liberal because we swap Wednesday evening service for Tuesday evening at Thanksgiving. A spiritual schedule is a schedule that leaves no time for family and no time to think.

    4. Spiritual Schedule=Liturgical Calendar?

      I mean, low-church Protestants at least get Christmas and Easter (and some have started to adopt Ash Wednesday/Lent, but as more of a personal observance).

      And we Catholics like “Heroes of the Faith” too…we call them “Saints”.

      In fact, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me…the day that they told the story of Maximillian Kolbe from the pulpit of my fundy college…and never mentioned that he was Catholic. Not even a heavily-qualified “yeah, we disagree with the Catholic church, but this guy got it right”. Just…nothing.

      When I asked the professor who told the story about it later he said “I didn’t think it was pertinent.”

      NOT PERTINENT!!! And now that I know a lot more about Kolbe, I assure you it was VERY pertinent.

      But that was my breaking point…I decided that the professor had just lied to us. It was a lie of omission, but a lie nonetheless. And I would not trust my soul to anyone who would ball-faced lie to me.

      I converted to Catholicism 11 months after graduating. It is the best decision I’ve ever made. I’ve never regretted it.

  4. Old fashioned leather lunged Bible preaching – what does this even mean?

    Family altar – erm, what?

    Standards – OH YES YOU DO.

    Humor – If by “humor” you mean “painfully awkward remarks/stupid political comments”…

    Old fashioned hymns – if it wasn’t written 100+ years ago, it must be a sin!

    King James Bible only – Anecdote time: the first time I heard someone talking about KJV only, I genuinely thought they were just making a joke about how much certain groups use the KJV. I laughed, I thought it was kind of funny. Oh, how little I knew then… (also, King James BIBLE? Not the King James VERSION of the Bible? Oh that’s right, the KJV is inspired, how silly of me to forget)

    Pastoral leadership – as opposed to leadership by a board of elders/deacons? Or God, for that matter?

    Separated Sunday School teachers – but not separated pastors, elders, ordinary church members, etc. etc.? (Actually, I’m pretty sure they like “separated” everything, but it’s still odd that Sunday School teachers are singled out.)

    Amens – Oh, I’ll bet you love your HAYMENs.

    Banana pudding – ??? Is this some Fundy in-joke I’m not aware of?

    Going to the church altars regularly – because you never know, you might not really have been saved the first sixteen hundred times you did it! Better do it again to be doubly sure you’re really saved! That’s how grace works, right?

    Love for men of God – but no “Love for God” that I see on this list…

    Tithes and Offerings – I can believe it.

    1. Dear Annie Moose:

      You wrote: ‘if it wasnโ€™t written 100+ years ago, it must be a sin.’

      For me, old hymns’ mean ‘O Sacred Head, Now Wounded’ [1000 years old]. Or ‘Christian, Doest Thou See Them’ authored 1500 years ago. Those, I call ‘old hymns.’

      Who in their right mind believes that these songs will be sung in a thousand years? Amazing Grace [which is a great hymn] might make it; but were I a betting man, I’d put my money on Lift High The Cross. Of course that mighty anthem is likely heretical because it is only 99 years old.

      Even so, it is worth a download for the sheer beauty of the melody.


      Christian Socialist

      1. Those truly are “old hymns”! And still lovely, in my opinion. But of course some newer ones are lovely as well.

        And now you’ve got me wondering. In a thousand years, will any of the songs we sing today still remain?

        1. Dear Annie Moose:

          Possible one from every couple of lifetimes or so …

          Christian Socialist

      2. I remember having a baffling conversation with someone – baffling for both. He said something about only liking the “old hymns” – and my reply, including ‘In Dulci Iubilo’, ‘Ein Feste Burg’, and ‘O Sacred Head’ simply confused him. He was, of course, talking about the over-peppy Fannie Crosby marches and chromatic dirges of the turn of the twentieth century, straight out of the usual “Babdis” hymnal.

        1. right, when they say “old hymns” they really mean “gospel songs written in the early 1900s with theologically vapid lyrics tainted by the keswick/holiness movements higher ground heresy, usually set to a lilting waltz theme, and usually with some kind of nautical motif”

        2. Dear Der_Berater:

          I reserved comment on the ‘carnival music’ as some may yet be pulled by it. That said, you have understood perfectly both my particular point and the way I regard churchly music generally.

          Capt’n Solo — some folk would be amazed at the amount of shoddy/heretical theology makes its way into those ‘old-time songs.’

          Christian Socialist

        1. George ate some of the words. That comment SHOULD say:

          If there were a way to collect on the bet, I would bet a lot of money that Curtis Mayfieldโ€™s โ€œPeople Get Readyโ€ is one hymn people will be singing centuries from now.

  5. As a former fundy, imo they don’t really like most of this stuff. We are exceptionally good at faking lots of things, especially around our fellow fundies.

    1. I totally agree with you. I call BS on 80% of this list. They might like these things, but they don’t practice themselves or actually believe that anyone else does.

  6. As a former fundy, imo they don’t really like most of this stuff. We are exceptionally good at faking lots of things, especially around our fellow fundies. I would also add in making fun of any and all religions that aren’t IFB ๐Ÿ˜‰

  7. Dear Darrell:


    There are two places where we can begin.
    If we begin with the Bible, the great question becomes, โ€˜what is written.โ€™ This leads to religion that gravitates around โ€˜what it says,โ€™ โ€˜what is commanded to be believed,โ€™ and โ€˜what is to be forsaken.โ€™ The spirit of this religion works like this: โ€˜law, law, law; duty, duty, duty; works, works, works.โ€™

    If we begin with God, the great question becomes, โ€˜what is God.โ€™ This leads to religion that gravitates around โ€˜what God is like,โ€™ โ€˜how can I know God,โ€™ and โ€˜how can I live in relationship with God.โ€™ The spirit of this religion breathes, โ€˜Spirit, Spirit, Spirit; freedom, freedom, freedom, life, life, life.โ€™

    Where you begin makes all the difference. As Christians, we take our questions to the Bible, and draw our answers from the Bible. Weโ€™re Christians. But because we begin with a person โ€“ or better, a community of three personsโ€™ โ€“ everything that follows is held and practiced takes a very different course.

    Christian Socialist

  8. Guess Pastor Bob forgot to read the Bible: ๐Ÿ™„

    2 Corinthians 4:5
    For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.

  9. Darrell – You should look at this list as a challenge. You need to write a blog post about any item on the list that you haven’t already covered.

    Good luck with the banana pudding.

      1. Ok I do not read it that much. I’ve only seen the posts that had to do with Schaap and those were linked on FB groups and SFL. The only other time I read it was this morning when Darrell linked it.

  10. I wonder if any fundy-types read that list and think “But I don’t really like that. Am I not a fundamental Baptist?” Personlly, I hate banana pudding. And I’d like to observe that ‘soul-winning’ is on there 5 times.

    1. HAHA! You captured the typical fundie response perfectly: “oh no! I don’t have all the traits on that list! Am I not a true fundie!?!?! :oops:”

      1. I must admit, I am a sucker for banana pudding. ‘Nilla Wafers are good, but if the dessert isn’t just quite fattening enough…try Nutter Butters!

        1. Thanks for the Nutter Butter suggestion. I’m going to pass it on he the dessert cook.

    1. I too was confused by this one.

      Does this mean classes divided by age and gender?

      Could someone with a better fundy background enlighten our lost souls?

      1. I’m assuming he meant separated from the world. As in, following all the rules. Not one of those people who come to church, sit in the pew, then leave and act like the world the rest of the week. ๐Ÿ™„

        1. And here I thought he was referencing separated as in separating and egg white from the yoke. Because Jesus said his yoke was easy. Amen?

      2. He means “Sunday School Teachers that cheerfully accept the pastor’s standards”

        Saw an interesting question the other day… if your church requires male Sunday School teachers/youth leaders to have short hair, do you allow women with short hair a pass?

        (the author said he had been in several IFB churches in which the women had short hair, but were teaching)

        1. Ah, but women usually have the greater burden with dressing (Have to wear dresses, not too short, slits not too high, neckline not too low, etc.) so it’s only fair that they can get a break somewhere!

    2. Separated Sunday school teachers would be those who are married, but live apart from their spouses.

      I’m not sure why Baptist Fundamentalists like them so much, though. ๐Ÿ˜

  11. Where is Loving God with all our heart, soul and mind? Also missing is Loving your neighbor as yourself.

    SFL – Claiming they only do things Biblically but completely ignoring the two greatest commandments in the Bible according to Jesus himself.

    1. Some other things that are missing:
      -protecting children and women against predators
      -living out 90% of the things on Bob Gray’s list
      -loving my enemies
      -encouraging critical thinking

    2. Truth.

      What an indictment.

      I think they ASSUME a lot. “Of course, we love Jesus. But these things are important and no one else cares about THESE the way we do, so we need to focus on them.” But what you spend your time on shows where your heart really is.

      In the same sort of way, they spend more time (and anger) preaching against CCM and pants on women than child abuse. They ASSUME everyone knows they’re against child abuse so they focus on things other people don’t think are sins, with the result being that all their ire is focused on things that aren’t even mentioned in the Bible.

      1. That is a very good point and I think finally explains to me, after years of trying to make sense of it all, why fundies so obsessively focus on the topics that they do.

    3. But they make sure to “pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin” Scorpio. (Matthew 23:23)

      Surely their ruthless regulation and obedience will be rewarded.


  12. “Deacon Boards who Serve”

    Can’t resist commenting on this one given my alias. Fundies don’t want their deacon boards to serve anyone but the MOG. Deacons are frequently told NOT to serve the needy (who deserve to be poor), widows (who have social security and their husbands should have provided for them), orphans (because children of divorced parents are not “orphans”), etc. Instead, deacons are supposed to “serve” by being the pastor’s yes-men about EVERY SINGLE DECISION HE MAKES.

    1. Yes DS! I was a deacon’s daughter and you are absolutely right about them being yes-men. There were 3 deacons when I left the church and now….there are none. Hmmm.

  13. After the “ladies like ladies” and “men like men”, should come children who look like adults, with suit and tie, or ankle-length skirts. That seems pretty common too.

    What is the youngest age boy anyone has ever seen in a suit? I know they make the skirts for infants.

    I hate that they always have pride in their food gluttony, I can forgive the dress codes somewhat, but the gluttony is truly obnoxious.

    1. I’ve seen a one-year-old in a suit. My mother used to say that “in puritan times the children WANTED to dress like their parents” as if this made-up faux-historical crap would make me feel guilty for not wanting to dress like my parents. ๐Ÿ™„

      1. In Puritan times, MOST children (and adults) wanted to wear the only suit of clothes they had– especially if it was cold weather. Only rich people had multiple outfits.

    2. It wasn’t too long ago that all babies wore gowns, even while playing, up until about a year old – even in the early 20th century. We have the cutest pic of my grandpa at about 6 months old, wearing a baby gown.

      1. Yes. Victorian paterfamilases looked approvingly at their little boys dressed in frocks (knee-length dresses) with long curly hair. The men themselves, BTW, wore very, very tight pants during much of the Victorian era. The kind of thing teenage boys and young men wear now in order to show everybody that their genitals have indeed grown with the rest of them.

        Turning to another period idolized by fundamentalists, another forum recently linked to photos of men of the Greatest Generation (manly rivet-chewin’ Nazi-shootin’ nurse-kissin’ MENNNN) cuddling each other for the camera, sometimes sitting on each other’s laps, in uniform even. Because that was what manly men did, and nobody blinked at it.

        Men looking like men means what, exactly?

      2. In the earliest picture of my Dad (born 1927), he is wearing a long, lacy dress. That’s what people put on infant boys then, at least in his small town.

    3. When I was a little girl in the 70’s, “maxi-dresses” were somewhat in style; I had a couple. I liked the way they looked, but they were obnoxious to play in! Didn’t wear them to school too often because of that.

      1. I wrote that because I feel sorry for girls who are made to wear long dresses, or indeed dresses, all the time. Hanging upside down from monkey bars, or indeed climbing playground equipment without worrying what the boys would see, should be a rite of childhood.

        1. BethD, I have actually heard fundies use the argument, “If it can’t be done in a skirt, they shouldn’t be doing it!”

        2. I was always taught that. Makes me sick. I refused to raise my daughter in that type of sexist environment. That was a huge part in my decision to finally leave.

    4. I subbed for crawlers nursery one time: kids who couldn’t even walk yet. The little boy was in a suit. And he had been named after the pastor. Poor kid.

    1. You’ve never eaten an amen? Maybe you are a woman and therefore have never stood behind a fundie pulpit. I am told that “amens” taste delicious. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  14. Where is Corporal Punishment? I KNOW they like that. And what about Bus Routes? And the Caste system. And breaking down your employees all in the name of the Kingdom? And the peons sacrificing to give more financially so your pastor can take his family to Hawaii. (because HE works so hard) And double standards? And having a bully pulpet? And blaming the victim? I don’t think this guy was really trying when he made this list.

    1. The Caste system….I hated that when I was at Fundy U. It seemed like everyone else had to work for prestigious positions, but if your dad was a favored pastor or evangelist, you got those nice positions your freshman year.

      1. …if your dad was a favored pastor or evangelist, you got those nice positions your freshman year.

        Rank Hath Its Privileges.

        And Heirs to the Throne/Pulpit hath the greatest Privileges of all.

  15. I like less than half the things on this list. I guess I must not be fundy–HALLELUJAH!! ๐Ÿ˜† And the things on this list I do like, I don’t like in an IFB church. So there.

    Also, why is “Bible study” on this list? Fundies don’t have Bible studies. They have groups where one person stands up and tells everyone else what this passage means and how we’re not living up to it. That’s not “Bible study.”

    1. That reminds me of the reason I was told years ago that we shouldn’t have small group home studies like those “liberal churches” – because there was no accountability for what was being taught, and people might stray from the “truth.”

  16. Here, let me re-title this for you.. how about “Stuff fundy pastors tell people they should like, so they spend the rest of their lives (Or the next 25 years in my case) pretending to like them”.

  17. Ugh, punctuation, people! Geez! It’s not that hard!

    “Old-fashioned, leather-lunged Bible preaching” = screaming and shouting from the pulpit (i.e., lungs made of leather)

    Proper punctuation makes it SOOOO much easier to understand the point someone is trying to make.

  18. He forgot to mention vulnerable (ie poor or frightened or both) 6 – 12 year old boys and 5 – 15 year old girls, destined for the perverted appetites of church leadership. Also, deluded teenage girls with low self esteem and lonely wives of duped husbands.

  19. Ghastly haircuts
    dresses on their jezebels
    whips for the backsides of their children
    Newt Gingrich
    the Left Behind book series
    Charles Finney
    reading the wisdom of Proverbs as promises
    preaching grace only when the pastor sins

    1. “Preaching grace only when the pastor sins.” That is huge. And in fundie families, it’s “preaching grace only when the parents sin.” As I have moved away from fundiedom, and faced the inevitable conflicts with my parents as a result, my arrogant father likes to chide me with “where’s the grace?” My rejoinder: “where was the grace when I was growing up in your abusive church and home?”

        1. Dear pastor’s wife:

          Grace should be offered as freely as we hope to receive it when it is our OWN turn to screw up stuff.

          Christian Socialist

        2. I agree that WE should be gracious, but we cannot ignore that Jesus said, “For you will be treated as you treat others. The standard you use in judging is the standard by which you will be judged” (Mt. 7:2). It is wrong of them to refuse grace for others but demand it for themselves.

  20. A few other things missing from the list:

    – Eating goldfish
    – Holdng the microphone in the right hand ONLY
    – Leaving Chick tracts as a tip
    – The Sound of Music
    – Any news, good or bad, about Isreal

    1. Eating goldfish? Yigh! I’m guessing they mean goldfish crackers.
      Eating raw fish is called SUSHI, which is a foreign (read- HEEE-THEN) food and therefore suspect. Real Fundies never even look at anything never found on dear old Grandma’s dining table or at a Good Church Supper ๐Ÿ™„ .

        1. Holy flashback Batman!!! One time when I was little, a guy from my church swallowed a live goldfish in front of the children’s church kids. I think we even passed out flyers promoting the event to bring in visitors. I was so creeped out and disgusted. So thanks for bringing back that memory that I thought I had buried so well. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        2. Well, I’ve heard of multiplying loaves and fishes, but really eating live goldfish? ๐Ÿ˜ฏ blegh! Maybe they didn’t get the memo that the 50s are over?
          Now I’m curious as to why, as this Yankee never heard of eating fish in the church, is it a Southern thing?

        3. Panda Rosa–the church catfish fry is Southern. The Friday night fish fry is one of those things Yankee Catlics do that we separate from, HAYMAN!!

          (Unless I’m in Wisconsin eating out on a Friday. The fried haddock basket at Charlie’s in Crivitz is excellent. Then I backslide and thank the Catholics for their traditions.)

        4. How is that NOT considered cruelty to animals? The awful death that poor fish must endure … *shudder*

        5. The fish doesn’t suffer for long after it’s swallowed, but the swallower will likely as not get salmonella or similar food poisoning.

  21. Oddly enough, I read “separated Sunday School teachers” completely incorrectly. And I wondered if it was an unintentional double entendre. I went and read Gray’s original post and found it interesting. He had some of the usual fundie hot buttons – equating smoking with sin, an implausible story to make his ABC church look ridiculous, hero worship of prominent IFBers, making an idol out of church growth, and of courseKJV onlyism. I did note that he mentioned God and the Holy Spirit together but never Jesus. Interesting.

  22. Dinner on the grounds=3 tables will hold the bread, veggies and meat. At least 2 tables will be needed just for the desserts. The body is a temple of the holy spirit, folks. You don’t need to make your backside as big as an entire temple!

  23. Realized about 3/4 of the way down “God” or “Jesus” was NOT going to make the cut, then felt almost sick to my stomach as I thought of how close I was to ending up just like this list….loud, ignorant, and spiritually DEAD. Thank God the scales are removed my eyes and all I love is God and others.

    On a side note, I think our local weatherman is drunk this morning. It’s gonna be a good day!

    1. Here’s a social gospel for you:

      He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
      he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
      He has brought down rulers from their thrones
      but has lifted up the humble.
      He has filled the hungry with good things
      but has sent the rich away empty.

      (Luke 1:51-53)

      I’ve never understood why the same Fundamentalists who emphasize the literal truth of every word of the Bible think passages like this one are optional.

  24. The part of his article where he mentions the church member who kept criticizing him was interesting to me, because he does admit that the man did find some legitimate problems. But he wouldn’t tell the church member he was actually right about some issues because, “I still had pride you know. HA!” end quote. It’s very interesting.

      1. I was too cryptic. The fact that he admits his own arrogance but doesn’t repent of it but instead turns it into a joke is sad and may indicate that he is not qualified from the ministry.

        I know he’d say it’s just a joke, but pride is not funny.

        1. You’re right. And I was thinking that the situation was a great opportunity for a pastor to show that he can be “approachable”, meaning that he could have admitted there was a problem. Instead of barely giving the member time to talk and then getting him out of the office, how great it would have been to take time and really talk to him about his concerns, however crazy some of them might have been. It would have seemed like he really cared about the people, and perhaps would have changed the entire atmosphere of his church.

        2. Right.

          The article said that the man did this for 20 years and was known to be “trouble.” I wonder what the pastor acknowledging one of his points might have done to his spirit.

        3. wonder what ol’ Bobby would think of Nathan? Or Jeremiah? or John the Baptist?
          Oh we got trouble makers galore.
          The IFB pastor is a superior man of gid therefore he is the ultimate authority and anyone who dares question them is challenging gid himself.

  25. From the link:

    “Critics are good in that they will help us correct that which is wrong, but never should they cause us to leave our heritage.”

    I’m glad that Paul didn’t think that way. Or Abraham. Or Jesus. Lots of people God called have left their “heritage” to go someplace else, physically or doctrinally.

    The assumption here is that “our heritage” is completely Biblical and 100% correct. That’s a presumptuous and potentially dangerous assumption.

    1. God help me that I never put my beliefs before His truth. Assuming I am right because, well, I’m correct is the fastest way I can think of to fall away from following God!

      1. Because the concept of the “altar” is as close as fundies are willing to go when it comes to mysticism. Our church had “mourners’ benches” because our pastor said that was what they were called back in the days when people really got saved.

  26. The two greatest commands from which everything else comes out of..

    1. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

    2. Love your neighbor, as you love yourself.

    The reason I go to the church I do is because you walk in and you’re bombarded by reports of giving to the battered women’s shelter, the picnic we’re throwing for the poor kids where we’re gonna hand them bookbags for school, the missions effort in South America, the tent cities we’re feeding and how more volunteers are needed, etc.

    The pastor doesn’t tell any stories that include “I, I, I, I, I.”

    The message on Sunday was about the NT Church and how the world was “in awe” of them because they sold everything they had, and gave to those in need. Those are values that are universally recognized. IFB churches are WAY too worried about impressing the pastor, and the pastor’s daddy, and totally forget that “the world” dosn’t care about their standards.

    The world cares about the world’s needs. The NT Church showed Christ by showing the LOVE of Christ. They did it by doing things that “the world” valued. Feeding them, giving them money, whatever they needed. Not by screaming at them about “The Old Time Religion”, whatever that is.

  27. BTW – The church I go to was started in a living room 15 months ago, and as of Sunday hit 500 people who filled out salvation cards.

    Some might be skeptical of this number, until they came down to the cinema on Sunday morning, and see that we’re now renting out the 3RD theater, in order to hold everyone.

  28. Pastoral Leadership–

    I had two thoughts on this one, and Annie Moose already mentioned one of them, a rule of Elders, like the early churches had.

    The other thought was how they confuse leadership with dictatorship. As it says in 2 Hereticals, the mog is always right. No accountability necessary. It’s not pastoral leadership as much as pastoral worship.

  29. Do Fundamentalists do ANYTHING that “the world” is in awe of, like “the world” was in awe of the NT church? We all know the answer is no.

    That is precisely their problem.

    1. “Do Fundamentalists do ANYTHING that โ€œthe worldโ€ is in awe of…”

      If by awe you mean “scratches their head in curiousity” then yes.

    2. I was thinking back just recently about what I knew about the fundamentalist churches in my town before I started really digging into the topic. Here’s their salt and light: Preachers are either shouty or singsong, they don’t like some hymns we sing because reasons, they think we’re not holy enough to be called Christian but they keep trying to get us to go to their church anyway, they scowl at girls who are dressed in ordinary clothing such as long-sleeved blouses with jeans, they make up goofy stories about the end of the world, they pass around nutty rumors about possessed Cabbage Patch dolls and stuff, and they think boogeymen are everywhere just waiting to Get Them for reading the wrong book or listening to the wrong radio station or whatever.

      Awesome is not exactly the word, no.

    1. That expression drives me bananas. Do they really think they can bless God? Not to mention the offhand, rote way which they use the expression as a form of period.

  30. “Bob Gray, one of the veritable godfathers of fundamentalism”. I knew Bob Gray was a fundie made man, maybe even a consigliere but a godfather? As in Marlon Brando? That seems more like a role for Schaap or Sexton. Sexton dresses the part anyway.

    I guess Phil Kidd would be Joe Pesci from Goodfellas.

  31. More missing items:

    – Angel’d eggs
    – Pot grace dinner
    – Republicans
    – Hearing stories about horrific deaths, all because that person didn’t walk the aisle earlier.

      1. Jeff – I was going to mention white pianos but I am not sure if fundies really like them. Liberace used a white piano if know what I mean. Wink wink nudge nudge. ๐Ÿ˜†

        And since we have a few new folks around, they may eventually wonder what all the fuss is about white pianos. Here is the origination of the “white piano incident”:


        That post is all the more awesome with the recent news out of Hammond.

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