Standards Reader Submitted Photo: Haircut Rule December 4, 2010 Darrell 212 Comments Here we have a photo taken from the rulebook of Harvest Christian Academy on Guam. (I had no idea everyone on Guam was white.)
212 thoughts on “Reader Submitted Photo: Haircut Rule”
Because nothing says holiness like a neat trim haircut.
Or complete uniformity. Because we all know God doesn’t like diversity. 🙄
Form is the only source of unity for Fundies.
Or a hideous tapered one.
I love those preacher boys that still think its 1945 and get the 1945 barber fade.
K.D. Lang lives on Guam?
“The child will not be allowed to return to school until he has an appropriate haircut”?
Because his head is more important that what is put into it? (Although if you’re putting that stuff into his head…)
Because your hair length is obviously the best indicator of your spirituality … 🙄
If they are going to have a rule, they must have some punishment for it.
Work does that too; if I come dressed inappropriately, I am sent back home until I come dressed per their dress rules.
I definitely agree that if a rule exists, there should be both a good reason for the rule and some consequences for not following it. The problem is that there really AREN’T any consequences with this rule. Like many other rules in Fundyism, it’s a difficult one to enforce – the administration at the school vacilates between saying all kids should be sent home to get correct haircuts and saying we should counsel the kids privately and expect them to change their attitudes and come back better the next day. But as a teacher, I would rather have spent my time teaching my kids than checking to make sure hair was cut and shirts were tucked in, etc. etc.
Okay, okay, this doesn’t have to do with hair, but I LOVE this joke.
Two fundy preachers were walking down the street. They heard a rustling in the bushes. They went over and saw two teens having sex.
They looked at each other, laughed, and breathed a huge sigh of relief. Then said to the kids, “Whew… we thought you two were dancing.”
Ha! i’d always heard it that you know why fundies never ever ever have sex standing up? If someone happened to see them, they might accidentally think they were dancing!
Seems like almost everyone in a leadership position in that church is white, even though most of its members aren’t. I wonder if they’re also going into that ministry with the mindset that their culture is superior.
I think that the haircut rule is just as absurd as you do. But I thought you should know I know a majority of the staff there. And your statement is not completely true. The majority of the PASTORAL staff may be white but the faculty and staff of the school is quite the opposite. You also need to take into account that Guam is an American territory. Therefore, it is very American. I have had many conversations with Dr. Herron as well as Kevin Inafuku and that is definitely not the direction that they are going. So before you bash someone like that you should probably check out the facts.
Ok. I was basing it on the pictures I’d seen. I’ve seen cases where it was true, but I was wrong this time.
In all seriousness, I’m often guilty of letting my own negative experiences with IFBism taint my opinion before I know the facts. That’s wrong on my part. My apologies.
Hey I understand. I too have had bad experiences with IFBism and I have seen people try to accomplish the “cultural superiority thing.” I just wanted the readers to know I know for a fact that is not the direction in this case. Apologies accepted.
“You also need to take into account that Guam is an American territory. Therefore, it is very American.”
WHAAAAAAT??? 😯 😯
Jon – Knee-jerk, PC, somewhat typical response from many on this site. I appreciate your quick response to put out the PC conflagration that was sure to come.
Ditto the above. Moaning about ethnocentricity is just as white as ethnocentricity…
I was thinking the same thing
Oh no, I beg to differ.
Unless, of course, you are the majority being ruled by a minority.
Guam may be an American territory, but as far as I know, they have their own culture (just like the non-Caucasian territories of Hawaii, the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico). It is inconceivable to impose an Euro-centric culture on people who naturally do not have that mentality.
Exactly. Heaven forbid we should accept diverse cultures. Some people need to realize that just because “PC” and “liberal” concepts don’t fit neatly into their little black-and-white world, that doesn’t make them bad.
Just curious, what does PC mean?
PC means “politically correct.” That is,someone is making an effort not to offend or demonstrate bias in social, cultural, political, gender, etc. contexts. It’s generally a negative concept, indicating that a person or institution is trying too hard or being too obvious about it.
Hawaii is a state, just like Virginia and New York.
Not that they need or deserve any defense, but that ministry is significantly U.S. military percentage-wise or was back in the day – don’t get the wrong impression that it was started as a mission work designed specifically with the indigenous population of the islands in mind.
Actually, having taught at that school last year, I can attest that most of the faculty of the school are both white and graduates of NIU or BJU. The kids even joke about the fact that “all” their teachers went to BJ.
Love the name, Inafuku!
those crazy guys on the right look like Ringo, Paul, John, and George! Hellish!
Bah ha! I had a thought of similar ilk.
I just want to know how they justify this with the Bible, since they’re “sola” scriptura.
Wait, this is a current book, and not a throwback to the 70s? Because I thought only my dad still wore his hair like that.
I wish there were some examples of punk rock style haircuts.
No, if they had that then they wouldn’t have an umbrella term to cover any hairstyle they just don’t like
I went to school there. We had a classmate with one blue eye and one brown eye. One of the teachers thought that was a sign that she was a Satanist and said, “We need to keep our eye on her.” Oh the irony.
Are you serious? That’s horrible! Forget kids teasing other kids, now it’s the teacher you gotta watch out for!
The worst bullies I ever encountered in high school were the “christian” school teachers. They also condoned/ignored bullying by other students.
Seriously. I knew a lot of good teachers but there were some truly Dickensian bad eggs in there. If they weren’t outright mean and condescending they tried to cudgel you into conformity through guilt and the “Because I said so.”
Yep, I’ve experienced that too.
I’ll third that.
Amen and amen! Christian school = eight years of hell from teachers and students alike. Bullying wasn’t ignored, it was encouraged. “They only pick on you because they love you”… ah, bull. 👿
I have experienced that, and the sad part is that IFB culture is that even if they know the teacher is lying or doesn’t like your kid and has it in for them they will NEVER admit that the teacher is wrong.
@Michael- Seems some of these people are still living in the middle ages.
So, what does it mean if my eye color seems to change (blue, green, or gray)depending on what color I’m wearing and sometimes for no reason that I can figure out?
I’m on my way over to cast the demons out.
Then can you stop over here, my husband and son have the same “problem.”
Yep, just let me stop by the grocery store for more oil and grape juice.
And pick up a white piano on the way there!
@ Les, do you have any cabbage patch dolls of Casting Crowns CD’s in your home? Throw that out and your oppression will end!
“Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born with this oddity?”
Yes, including anyone else we need to lay a guilt trip on.
Oddly enough, they also frown on shaved heads.
There’s only 1 haircut that God approves of. Your barber should know it as “the Baptist” or else your church isn’t doing right for God. 🙂
Rob you just don’t know half of it
The former IFB pastor who is in the hoosegow now, used to brag that when he was saved he had long hair and one of the first things he did was go to the Mayberry barber and ask for a Southside Baptist Church hair-cut. Honest Injun… he declared it from the pulpit many times. 😯
Not surprised! First time I heard about asking the barber for “the baptist” was in “Churched”, but I knew exactly what it was, w/o having to describe anything.
I can cut a Baptist with my eyes closed. I got my cosmetology license in 1994 when I was a BIG fundie.
Here it is: medium taper in the back, 2-3 inches on top, side swept bangs, no whitewalls, tapered on the sides, square neckline, spray the hair, comb and spray again. Done.
LMAO! 😆 Line of the day.
Ha ha… Okay, that was totally unintentional, but I’m SO glad I wrote it! 😉
Oh, I wasn’t laughing at the way it was written–it’s just so true! There is a standard, almost cliche Baptist haircut and I never thought about it from the perspective of the barber/stylist giving the haircut before. 😀
Oh yeah. Takes me 10 minutes to do that cut.
Does anyone have a picture of the “Baptist” haircut? I’m curious, it sound like the one I have had for most my life since junior high.
Do you go to Ambassador? And did you go to NZ recently?
I have recently shaved my head. My hair had begun to thin rapidly on top, over the last couple months, so I thought, if I’m going to go bald, I’ll embrace it on my own terms and go the whole way 🙂 I’ve kept the beard, though, and now I look like Walter White from “Breaking Bad”. I even wear the same kind of hat
This is an old handbook, but the rule for the hair cut length is still the same.
I spotted a book at a library book sale that I wish I had bought so that I could put it in the Dumpster. It was titled something like “Health and Family Life for Christian Schools.” Did you know that good Christian mothers put their babies on solids at three months, full stop? No discussion of food sensitivities, varying ages at which the tongue thrust reflex may disappear, or anything else. If you are a good Christian, it’s rice cereal on day 90 and bananas on day 94. I think Bible verses were involved.
“Did you know that good Christian mothers put their babies on solids at three months, full stop? No discussion of food sensitivities, varying ages at which the tongue thrust reflex may disappear, or anything else. If you are a good Christian, itâ€™s rice cereal on day 90 and bananas on day 94. I think Bible verses were involved.”
Oh, that makes me so, so sad. You don’t know how many “IFB/BJU” young moms I see making choices like that. I hate it when Bible verses are added to make every thing a spiritual issue-it creates heavy, heavy burdens.
No lie…..(I bet that qualifier is used a lot here to describe crazy whack job stuff we’ve seen from fundies), some extra whacked guy from my fundy church, and sadly a good friend of my dad’s, believed that after children were weaned they shouldn’t have milk any longer. Misinterpretation of “moving from milk to meatier things’. He made his poor kiss pour water over their breakfast cereal. THAT might be breakfast they would serve in hell! It was if course ok for him to run around on his under-educated and lost-in-a-foreign-culture Korean wife. 🙄
I get tremendously angry when I hear of people making up stupid, nit-picky, extra-biblical rules – especially when they apply those rules to others like their helpless kids, while they then break God’s explicit commands on adultery!!!!
I guess my kids are doomed. I nursed each of them for at least a year (one diehard until she was two-and-a-half), and let them decide when they wanted solid food.
Of course everyone should know this…if you don’t then pick up a copy of something by Gary Ezzo and learn how to “growing kids (the manna)gid’s way” Probably the worst piece of trash I have ever seen. I was a newly married new father with an infant and no experience an I could see how full of crap the guy was. Maybe thats cause I actually study the Bible and what he said wasn’t in it…
Can someone tell me how a grade school boy from Guam is able to grow side burns?
Maybe they are sent home the first Friday, and not allowed to return until they do grow them?
Bwha! **snort** You might be on to something Rob.
That’s HILARIOUS!!! 😆
Some of us were alive when the verboten hairstyles were in fashion. Ugh.
Hahaha this is hilarious! My dad had the long sideburns like the guy on the far right until I was 11. At that point we had teased him so much of wanting to be John Travolta in Dance Fever he shaved them. 🙂
Everyone sing along now: (I still know the melody)
I Corinthians 11 is still in the book,
I know that it is cause I just took a look,
For a man to have long hair it says is a shame,
So why bring disgrace to my dear savior’s name?
(A favorite among my mom’s side of the family)
This reminded me of a related song from the Fundecostal branch of Fundamentalism. Sadly the following is NOT a joke but a real song sung by some:
The Hair Song
Why do you bob your hair, girls?
You’re doing mighty wrong;
God gave it for a glory
And you should wear it long .
You spoil your lovely hair, girls,
You keep yourself in style;
Before you bob your hair, girls,
Just stop and think a while.
Why do you bob your hair, girls?
It is an awful shame
To rob the head God gave you
And bear the flapper’s name.
You’re taking off your covering,
It is an awful sin;
Don’t never bob your hair, girls,
Short hair belongs to men.
Why do you bob your hair, girls?
It does not look so nice;
It’s just to be in fashion,
lt’s not the Lord’s advice.
And every time you bob it
You’re breaking God’s command
You cannot bob your hair, girls
And reach the Glory land.
Why do you bob your hair, girls?
It’s not the thing to do;
Just wear it, always wear it,
And to your Lord be true.
And when before the judgment
You meet your Lord up there,
He’ll say, “Well done, for one thing,
You never bobbed your hair.
Could almost be sung to the tune of “I’m no kin to the monkey.”
“Bobbed hair” and “flapper name”? Fundies are still singing a song condemning hairstyles of the 1920’s? I knew they were behind the times, but 90 years out of date!? I’m somewhere between stunned and laughing hysterically.
Well, you know, there’s still a lot of talk about looking like a hippie.
What a horrible song (as well as being laughably outdated!) “And every time you bob it / Youâ€™re breaking Godâ€™s command. / You cannot bob your hair, girls / And reach the Glory land.” Those lyrics just said that you get to heaven by keeping the commandments! That’s heresy, folks! I’m headed to heaven based on what Jesus Christ did on the cross, not based on how well I can follow a list of rules.
yeah, but we all know it’s ok so long as it “sings” well.
Well done – you cut to the central point which illuminates the heresy of the IFB. I completely missed the author’s equating a specific work with qualification for entrance into the Kingdom. Must make cancer patients mighty happy.
Okay, I just read through that song (forgive the delay). I’ve heard a sermon by John R. Rice condemning the bob.
It’s a wonderful, VERY feminine haircut for women. BUT, it represented, in the 20’s, a rebellious, self-centered woman, and that idea stuck.
But, it really is a great cut. It never goes out of style. In fact, I wear one every Summer. Nice and short in the back up to my hairline… Yep, I do!
We’d make it all the way to the Bill Rice Ranch and back making up verses to “Oh you can’t get to Heaven” with all the stuff you can’t do and be a Christian.
in a mini skirt,
in a movie theatre
by smokin’ pot
with a cigarette
(can’t remember them all anymore PTL!)
“… all my sins are washed away I’ve been redeemed.”
Oh wow, we sang that horrible song too. In fact, somewhere my parents had a stupid cassette tape with kids singing it (including the mini skirt, the “picture show”, etc. .). Sad part is, when you think of the irony. . “you can’t go to the movies or you’re not going to heaven.” But, hey. . “all my sins are washed away I’ve been redeemed.”
I have to add, we listened to the cassette that talked about the “picture show” in the 80’s. LOL. Did anyone actually still call the movie theater the “picture show” then?!??!
only fundies. There was a verse about a bobbed hair cut too I think. Being fundy, we all knew what it meant. I wonder when the song was written. Was it written in the 80s and used the archaic language?
Being fundy, I never questioned the contrast of “you can’t get to heaven by doing X, but all my sins are washed away I’ve been redeemed.
How funny to come home from a day of cutting hair to this image.
All I’m going to say is all of the above styles are “unnacceptable”.
The Acceptables need thinning out BADLY. The top has so much hair on it, that I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a nest somewhere in there. Oh, and let’s not add any real bangs, let’s just have one big ol’ combover.
I’m not even going to comment on the Unacceptables.
Anyone from Bob Jones still have the example photos of acceptable and unacceptable shoes sent out by the Dean of Men?
Yes, shoes. The most recent rule book said something about “Conservative” shoes…what ever the heck those are…but they did have pictures posted of unacceptable shoes.
Mostly they were trying to weed out leather athletic shoes and a few other styles that were a little ambiguous for daily/class/chapel wear.
Yes, because athletic shoes are SO liberal. In fact, my sneaks were going on the other day about how much they support gay marriage and how much they hate Palin’s new show.
I think the right one leans a little more conservatively, more so than the left.
Sensible Shoes are for amoral liberal compromisers.
True, the shoes I usually wear to work which are made to stand on all day, tend to remain neutral in their political opinions. My pumps are SO conservative that they’re not speaking to my athletic shoes. In fact, I have to keep the two pairs in separate rooms. 😉
Sorry, I found the “conservative shoes” thing too funny, and it got me on a tangent.
@Natalie: don’t worry my flip flops understand you complet…wait, not they’re denying everything…wait. They remember again. no, now they explain they were just trying to make a point…but wait now they say they’re green, no, they’re red now…now they’re honking like donkeys. I think they settled for the rainbow color now…wait they’re back to asking me why I don’t have nylons on again…Why are they about to shoot me!?!…oh right, they’re pacifists… 😉
Mental note to self: Lock flip flops away. 😉
They really need to get a life, no, really… 😈
The wife of the former principal of our Fundy school believed girl’s black “waffle soled” shoes reflected the rebellion of the wearer.
I think this was the same graphic that we had in my high school handbook! And nope, I’m not telling you how many years ago that was! 😮
It was in 19noneofyourbusiness, right? 😉
Natalie, we must have graduated the same year!! How else would you know these things?? 😉
That’s what my class ring reads. 😉
Why does it always seem like everyone is extremely bitter on this site? The picture sure is funny, but there is no reason to bash people who are trying to do right in authority. How many people from Guam do any of you know personally anyways? I personally know about 50 people from Guam college students that went there for high school and none of them would think this is what they push at the school. Also any white person that lives in Guam for sometime picks up the Guam culture not the other way around like its being said here.
I don’t have anything against Guam. I was just making fun of the out-of-dateness of the hairstyles. I mean, its just funny.
First of all there isn’t an AUTHORITY structure in Church. We are all on equal footing. And how is mocking antiquated hair styles & idiotic hair rules in anyway bitter? That’s one of the furthest reaches I’ve ever seen for the bitter card, you’re gonna lose your balance reaching that far, bucko.
Make that analogy: you’ll shoot your eye out with that bitter gun, with that poor aim/analysis! ‘Tis the season!
“You’ll shoot your eye out! You’ll shoot your eye out!”
Okay, I’m done.
I think it was the fundies carelessly shooting their own eyes out, and using it as sermon illustrations that kept us from getting that Red Ryder!
Oh, Rob, there’s an old hardware store where I live that actually sells those. No joke! They even sell pink ones for the girls. (I know, perfect waste of a bee-bee gun, right? Like a pink Corvette) 😉
“if thine eye offend thee, Shoot it out!” 😯
Now, I know what to get you guys for Christmas.
…as found in the New American English Standard King James New International Version.
1611, 1617, or 1619 version? (or so recent is was directly inspired!)
Ah the bitter card. Well that’ll set us all straight.
Maybe Darrell should change the name of this to Stuff Bitter People Like.
Id always preferred to be a curmudgeon, but fundies just cannot ever bring themselves to even change the vocabulary of inaccurate accusations. It’s like trying to communicate with a 4 yo incapable of expressing what he/she wants, and just repeats what they want over and over. And comments section they can’t even point at it, just repeat bitter whether it is or not.
@Rob, too true!
I just wish an IFB person would come on and be humble. Maybe apologize or at least emphathize with the hurt people are feeling. But, no, nothing’s EVER wrong with the IFB. It’s all OUR fault. And we should just shut up. That’s what they want. For us to just shut up. The emperor has no clothes and we’re pointing it out, but the emperor’s loyalists are turning around telling US that we’re wrong and just to be quiet because we don’t want to upset the emperor. Everything would be fine if we’d just be quiet. BUT THE EMPEROR WOULD STILL BE NAKED. They just won’t acknowledge that.
I’m being nice now. I still have both feet in my mouth from my overly-hasty comment earlier.
@RobM,….”Curmudgeon” One of my absolute FAVORITE words! 😀
What is so funny about the bitter thing is that fundies are probably THE most uptight people on the planet, and yet WE’RE bitter.
I think our satire proves opposite. Bitter people usually don’t hae much of a sense of humor.
“have” not “hae”
I’m not Mr. Miyagi.
“Bitter” is just one of the stock Fundie dismissive words they attach to anything they don’t want to address or deal with. The only words that serve the purpose better are “worldly” and “new-evangelical”. Anything that falls under one or more of these categories need not even be looked at seriously or considered at all.
Can you imagine if we did the same thing? Everytime they spout something, just label it and dismiss them totally.
I think they’d pop a blood vessel.
I think “bitter” is one of those words they toss out because they are secretly ‘bitter’ for not having the sheer guts to say what they think…it’s a guilty pleasure sorta thing.
Smith: Yeah, I’d say it’s projection too. Think about it. Strict hierarchy, no free will (and I don’t mean in the theological sense), no freedom, always having to watch your back, always having to watch every single move you make, always having to fight off the church gossips, and having to act perfectly happy and joyful all the time under those circumstances. That’d make anybody bitter, but it wouldn’t be safe to admit… so pin it on the people who got free. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
How about “Bitter Stuff People Like” such as a pint of bitter as in extra hopped India Pale Ale.
Oh, count me in! Make it two pints, though.
Oh, joy. Another person plays the bitter card. Keep reading, Nick, you’ll find a lot more than bitterness here.
Some people here wear the bitterness with pride, some pretend they aren’t–then prove they are, other’s aren’t bitter, just bothered.
As fitting as the fundy-isms are, sadly the bitterness label is accurate for most here also it would seem.
That’s why it stings so much.
I had no idea Jim Schettler was reading/commenting on this blog! 🙂
Only a fundamentalist could uniformly assume any & all pushback is bitterness.
Count me in for being bitter Theo! I will say it. Yes, I am bitter. Here are the reasons.
1. I was told that salvation was up to me and that saying a prayer would “get me saved.”
2. I was told that the following activities were sin when they are clearly not: Drinking alcohol, going to movie theaters, girls wearing pants, guys having long hair, guys having earings, having tattoos, listening to music with syncopation, having unity with people with whom you disagree on theology, having unity with people who don’t separate from anyone who is wrong, voting democratic, not dressing my best for church, hanging around unbeliever (implied), listening to CCM, mixed swimming, wearing shorts that come above the knee, not reading your Bible for a day, not agreeing with your authority, etc.
3. I was taught that my own works sanctify me instead of God’s grace.
4. I was not taught how to think logically or how to disagree respectfully.
5. My church had incredibly long painful invitations.
6. My friends from the Caribbean Islands were treated differently (as institutional policy) because of the color of their skin.
7. I was never taught how to study the Bible for myself in a correct manner even though Bible study/devotions were talked about all the time.
8. I found out that many pastors in Fundamentalism had secret lives of abuse, pornography, affairs, and other definite sin that they concealed in their lives.
9. I found out that many people in my church had lives that were absolutely crumbling, but they couldn’t get help because asking for help would be tantamount to admitting that they were not spiritual.
10. It was implied or sometimes stated that white Americans were superior and that evil music and ideas came from Africa.
11. The fruit of the spirit was virtually ignored in favor of a man-made list of rules and regulations.
12. Sins such as pride and gossip were routinely ignored.
13. Abuse of authority by people who were supposed to be spiritual leaders seemed acceptable and even encouraged.
14. Everything was couched in terms of black/white, right/wrong when the Bible did not deal with them that way.
15. Bible verses were routinely taken out of context in order to show that an individual preacher’s opinion on an issue was right.
I could go on, but I weary of this. It is draining to think of all the problems inherent in this Christian farce known as fundamentalism. Although I may be bitter, I try to not let it impact me in the way that I function with other Christians, church, and life in general. This blog does allow me and those like me to rant on occasion. That being said, 90% of the comments on this blog, you will find to be not full of bitterness but full of amusement, encouragement, and a healthy dose of satire. If all you see is bitterness, I believe that you are missing the purpose, the attitude, and the overall awesomeness of this blog! ❗
Hi, Kevin. I have had some bad experiences in fundamentalism, but not apparently as bad as yours. Comments to your points below.
1. I’ve never had anyone in any church I’ve been in tell me that salvation was up to me. Officially, they deny that saying a prayer will save someone. Some of the number-crazy churches will press people (children) into praying in order to count them in contests, but I’ve never met a fundamentalist that stated this.
2. All of these items in your list I have heard, too – and they use Scripture to justify them. I would take issue with the statement that such are “clearly not sin”; they may not be sin, but I don’t think it is clear. To take long hair on men, the Scriptures clearly and plainly say that it is shameful for a man to have long hair. These areas are all hotly debated in Christianity.
3. I’ve never been taught that my own works sanctify me – I was taught that we show our love for God by obeying His commandments. Is this so wrong?
4. OK, me, too – but I don’t think it is exclusively the church’s job to teach people how to think logically. I don’t expect my church to teach me such things.
5. And this is cause to be bitter? Why? Do you consider that you “own” the 24 hours in a day, and that the church is “wasting” your time by long invitations? Each day and each hour are a gift from God.
6. I have heard tales of Hyles-Anderson faculty and staff that indicate that they were racist, but I’ve never seen this in any of the fundamental churches of which I’ve been a member.
7. We did have occasional series in how to study the Bible, but they were pretty rare. Then again, no one ever told me how to study my schoolwork.
8. Many pastors? I dispute this. There are thousands of fundamental churches; most are very small. Some of the larger fundamental churches have made news because of abuse of the leaders, but I really don’t think this is limited to just fundamental pastors.
9. Could be… this is a matter of pride.
10. I’ve never heard this advanced. I have heard that rock music has some things is common with African evil music, but that never, ever implied to me that it was evil because they were black.
11. I tend to agree with this one — the “fruit of a Christian” (a non-Biblical phrase) was supposed to be souls we had won, and if you didn’t have them, you were nobody. The fruit of the Spirit wasn’t as important as your own fruit. They said that Jesus statement that we should bring forth fruit means to win souls, not bring forth the fruit of the Spirit. We were pounded unless we produced.
12. Gossip, at least, was preached against – usually meaning talking about the church leadership.
13. This happened to me, but I don’t know that it was encouraged… It was commonly practiced because that is the example the church leadership saw.
14. I’m not sure I agree here… Gray (as in “gray area” is really just black & white mixed. If our senses are sharp enough, we can separate the white and black. The Bible seems to have a lot of black and white statements in it: “Thou shalt not steal” seems pretty black and white.
15. Been there, heard that. Even heard entire messages that had nothing to do with the Bible – a verse was taken to “launch” the message, regardless of what the verse taught or context. Again, this is bad preaching; it may be common among the churches you’ve experienced, but it is not the case in all fundamental churches.
If you haven’t seen my other posts here, I have my problems with some aspects of fundamentalism — being very shy, the push to go out knocking on strangers’ doors almost drove me into a mental breakdown. I was shunned and excluded and not allowed to use my gifts because I would not go out on church-wide soulwinning times. I felt the lowest of the low, but I was afraid for my sanity.
@Kevin, your #11 truly resonated with me. I’ve been focusing on this for a while now. From my childhood, I was always the “good Christian girl”, conservative in clothing, music, and entertainment choices and heavily involved in church activities. Yet as I read the Bible, I began to realize that many of my external standards were not even mentioned in the Bible (actually, Psalms with its dancing and clapping and praising with cymbals seemed OPPOSED to my standards!). Instead, the Bible said God looked on the heart. Now of course I had always HEARD this in church, but in practical terms, hours and hours of church instruction were spent on the evils of TV, pants on women, other versions of the Bible, going to movies, etc. with comparatively LITTLE time spent on love, joy, peace, gentleness (Oooooo! That’s one we REALLY didn’t emphasize!), patience, etc. I saw impatience, worry, irritability, gossipy, and more (in others and myself) while we self-righteously thought we were better than others because we didn’t listen to CCM or read the NIV.
I truly want my life to reflect Jesus Christ – His love, gentleness, compassion, care, self-lessness, and dedication are characteristics I desire in my own life. I want to laugh with those who laugh, weep with those who weep, help the hurting and stand up to those who falsely use God’s Word. I want to be holy by following God’s clear commands – do not lie, do not steal, etc. – and by adding my own personal standards to help keep me from personal sin without judging other Christians who may believe differently from me in those personal areas.
@Guilt Ridden, I’m so glad you pointed out that some churches consider “fruit” to be the souls you “save.” My father-in-law just used that on us this Thanksgiving. I’d always heard “fruit” defined as living godly, so to see it used this way was new to me. (He said, “By your fruit you shall know them” to discredit us, because he thinks our church is too small, proving to him that we’re not getting souls saved so we must be wrong.)
@Pastor’s Wife: I’ve long been in a church that thundered that “the fruit of a Christian is another Christian”, so where is your fruit? What the Holy Spirit was producing in people didn’t matter; that was His work — where is YOUR fruit. An unfruitful Christian who couldn’t point to a “string of fish” was in danger of severe purging from God.
The statement that “the fruit of a Christian is another Christian” sounds logical, but if we take that to Scripture, it doesn’t hold up: the fruit of the Holy Spirit is not a holy spirit – it is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. This is our fruit, produced by the Holy Spirit. Next time your father in law brings this up, ask him (gently and kindly) why the fruit of the Holy Spirit is not another Holy Spirit (if the fruit of a Christian is another Christian).
Oh, Kevin, when I read the part about the “long and painful invitations” I had the though of what would a non christian think you were talking about, I can picture them scratching their heads, lol! And I definitely agree with the following:
I believe that you are missing the purpose, the attitude, and the overall awesomeness of this blog!
@PW – Don’t know where I was when this great conversation was going on (out soul-winning, maybe) *sarcasm* What really jumps out at me, especially relating to your father-in-law is PRIDE – my goodness we are not Holy Spirit juniors, the Lord gives the increase. I attend church right now where a young guy is almost tormented by not having more souls for the kingdom, I tried to gently remind him that it is the Holy Spirit’s job to convict those hearts.
@Kevin – #9 is so true, how many hurting folks could have been helped. Won’t tell my whole story,but my 16-yr marriage fell apart, I had attended the same church for 20 years. The pastor knew we were in trouble, he never came to our house, he never called, in fact my life basically fell apart and not one of my christian brothers or sisters called or came by or even asked if they could help or how I was doing. Incredible. (this is not one of those mega-churches, about 100 on Sundays)
I was a day late and a dollar short on this one, just wanted to vent.
There’s a lot of construction on Guam right now. They’re moving the Marines from Okinawa to Guam and have to build out the base to accomodate them. There’s been some worry that Guam could capsize with all the added weight.
Actually, it was a US Senator or Representative who made the mistake of suggesting Guam would “capsize.”
No it’s the articulate, just re-elected, Democratic, U.S. Representative from GA’s 4th district. We are so proud of him here in GA.
I’m sure those of you from Georgia know this already, but sadly, Hank Johnson is an improvement over his predecessor, Cynthia McKinney.
But see, there’s the connection. If young women dressing immodestly can cause earthquakes, then young men wearing their hair in “inappropriate” styles may cause islands to capsize. Perhaps…
Even if the men’s haircuts caused some great tragedy, they’d still have to blame it on the women somehow. We get blamed for freakin’ everything in Fundyland. 🙄
So true! 😈
I just left that very school this past year; that must be a very old picture. The haircut rule still exists, without any consequences though, and the students very often mimic “punk rock culture” with their haircuts. Oh, brother. Have you ever tried to enforce a rule with no consequences (except the teachers getting fussed at for not enforcing the rule)?
And yes, to those who asked, Guam does have its own non-white, non-stereotypical-American culture. Definitely worth a visit sometime, if you can handle the long flight.
It on the top of my ‘dream sheet’ of places I want to get stationed.
What, no clever mouse-over caption for the photo? 🙁
I know – I was so disappointed! Maybe we should come up with some ideas for him …
Wait, what? I’ve never seen that.
Well, now I’ve got to go through the archives again.
Most of the photos (except this one!) going back the past several months have “hidden” captions that you can see if you hover your mouse over the photo for a second. They’re often the best part of the post!
See Fundy rule #37
Come to think of it, if you want to get technical, I think the faces in that pic represent many different ethnicities. Grant it, they all look like they heaped fudge on their heads, but their faces are all different and appear to represent many parts of the world.
Something seems familiar here…
It’s scary when Fundamentalists have more in common with totalitarian countries than first-century Christians.
BJU-approved hairstyles are annoying for four years, and IFB-approved styles affect you only until you get out of that church, but the idea of “state-approved hairstyles for men” goes so far beyond the pale in being hideous and insulting. I LOVE freedom!!!!!
And of course women have no state-approved hairstyles because women are swathed in veils. Ick!!!!!!!! I HATE totalitarianism!
In fairness to BJU, attendance at the school is voluntary, and if you violate the hair cut standard you can expect demerits, maybe expulsion if you keep it up long enough. But there’s nothing voluntary about being born in Iran, and I imagine that the penalty for breaking their law is something much worse than just demerits.
Fairness to BJU… No. 😛
Jesus WILL kick you out of heaven for long hair, so chop off those sideburns before it’s too late.
I have my edgers ready here at the OFA for anyone who wants to get right.
Just a little off the top for me, and maybe do something about the gray ones.
Rob – Better they turn gray than fall out 😀
That’s how I deal with my gray hair.
@Scorpio – LOL
I get a lot of guys who ask me if I can do anything to fix the bald spot in the back. I always say that if I did invent something, I wouldn’t be working at the salon. I’d be at my vast estate somewhere in the Caribbean.
The cure is Alum powder and Lemon Juice. Mix together and rub on bald spot. It dowsn’t re grow hair but draws the skin so tight it pulls the hair from the sides up and covers the Open area. It’s a Chemical comb-over…. acts as a face lift as well. 😎
Don, you are NOT right in the head.. ha ha.
@Don- I almost spit out my coffee from laughing! Count yourself lucky you don’t owe me a new keyboard. ROFL!!
God only made a limited number of perfect heads, the rest he put hair on.
…but can you call out she-bears at will?
The Lord God is just and fair,
To some He gave brains, to others, hair!
At my fundy school the exception to the rule was the “Cast Member” button. For some reason it’s ok for “positive” characters to be portrayed with long hair in period pieces but just not in current real life.
Among the many things that make ya go “Hmmmmmm”.
Thank you Lord for saving me from this fundamentalist lunacy!
but once you become a preacher, you can affect all sorts of odd styles and unnatural colors.
Can I ask a completely unrelated question?
Why to fundies beat up on women so badly? I mean, a woman can say something, and if a man says the SAME thing, then its okay. But, the woman gets blasted. They love to preach to women so much about their wrong doings, but the men are sort of patted on the back.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
totally IMO…I think many men live closer to the fence of not attending church at all, and have to be offered guy-friendly accommodations(sports analogies, women bashing) to stick with it. Women will come to church whether they are abused there or not, and bring the children no matter what.
I have heard an IFB pastor say there’s going to be a lot of women in heaven, he could see there was a difference in the sexes.(He was not abusive by the way)
Wow. I’ve never thought of it that way.
I just remember some of the preacher guys in college just being very dismissive of the women. We weren’t as smart as them, even though we took a lot of the same classes. They just had this attitude that they were enlightened somehow.
Ironically, it was pretty much the preacher guys, and not the guys who majored in other fields.
That was one of the things that lead me to my exit. I felt like they didn’t know any more than anyone else, but had the ego that they did. And, so I thought, if this was the attitude of the so-called future “leaders”, then I didn’t really want any part of it.
What’s funny is that the pastors who I’ve heard who hold earned doctorates and who truly know what they’re talking about, are some of the most humble.
My take on it is Fundyism is Patriarchal; with that in mind, Fundy men generally feel the woman is inferior (read: stupid)which is why God put man “in charge”. Fundyism, in the words of Frank Schaeffer, is simply the “American Taliban”. I mean if you REALLY look at it, in the OT, women were really nothing more than concubines and second/third rate people if you count the male child (the caste is as follows: man/husband-male child-wife-concubine)and in the NT, women are simply made to shut up and ask the hubby at home. Anytime you hear this “the bible holds women in high esteem” BS, it’s because that is exactly what it is.
You’re definitely not the only one. And the thing is, it’s not just in the IFB world. Even today, when women are more empowered than before, the double standard still exists. If a man has sex with lots of women, he’s a conqueror. If a woman does the same, she’s a whore. It’s really disgusting. 😡
Boy Mel, you nailed that one down!
In my experience, there are fundy males who are extremely intimidated by women, especially ones have the unmitigated gall to think for themselves, earn good grades in school,succeed in other areas of life, and, horror of horrors, be tuned in to God. Because of this they bait, belittle, and denigrate their victim whenever possible. The false accusations, smear campaigns and constant misjudgments hurt me the most. In many fundy circles any woman can be completely destroyed by labeling her “unsubmissive,” “unteachable,” and in my case the absolute worst reproach: “that Yankee feminist.” 🙄 FWIW I considered it a compliment. The excuse for this reprehensible behavior is the proposition that Eve was deceived by Satan, but Adam knew what he as doing when he sinned and ate the fruit. So let me get this straight: it took a professional to deceive Eve, but it only took one woman to persuade Adam? ❗
You’re right, and you wonder how they treat their wives. How beaten down must they be. Sad.
You called that one, especially about ‘baiting’…Fundy men are not really men at all, it’s just a continuance (sp) of their insecurities. Actually, I believe it’s the continual growth of a dangerous trend in America…As I mentioned a few comments above, Fundamentalism is the American chapter of the Taliban. The women may not wear burkas but if you verbally, emotionally and physically abuse your spouse, a burka will be optional. But hey, with the Republicans in control of the House, and neutralizing the Senate and I’m sure Palin or someone like her to be the next president, that will all change the Fundy attitude, right? 😈
Natalie – Stop being so bitter
Oh, I know. I’m so bitter that I didn’t even know I was bitter until I was told that I was bitter and now I’m bitter about being bitter. 😉
I’m sure fundies would just have a hay day with this 😈
Conniptions, apoplexic seizures, mad-dog rantings in other tongues. And that is just at how she rides into town. Hysterics breakout at the bar scene.
“Oh my, I have nevah, in awl mah bohn dayz witnessed such vulgarity. Shocking just shocking. And ourwah young boyz are being temped by trollops like this Miss Pink character. That is what we need to insulate owah young people against! Onwad Chris-tian Sol-ol-diers march-ing as to wah…”
This has not been my experience at all ….but then the IFB I left had a woman choir director , women led in public prayer etc. and they were very, very fundy.
Seems that certian sub groups push this (HAC in particular) but not all.
Sorry you have seen this in your experience.
Thanks, Theo. It was long ago experience, and ironically, I haven’t come across it outside the fundie circles I was in.
But, let me tell you, if I’m near someone who thinks that way, my fundar goes off like hotcakes.
If women lead in prayer and you had a woman choir director…then you weren’t in a Fundy church…sorry dude.
I grew up in a GARBC church and women never led in prayer or led choirs. My dad would never have put up with that. We had NOTHING to do with HAC either. I’ve known of many IFB churches and your experience seems rather unique.
I meant that Theo’s experience with women leading music seemed unique, not Smith.
Smith: You’d be surprised. Very, very rarely can a woman lead music in a Fundy church. My old church would never have allowed any such thing… until it turned out a lady was the only one available. (Granted, she sings tenor.) I would tease the pastor about going flaming liberal (like that’d ever really happen), but I refuse to cost the lady her job. 😉
You’re not the only one by a long shot.
Even while I was still Fundy, I was so disgusted by the absolute loathing Fundies had toward sexual abuse survivors and domestic abuse victims. I remember one guy who said with almost a pride that his family abandoned his sister who was in an abusive marriage. Unfortunately, since I was Fundy, I had no way to fight back. Abandoning the hateful church entirely looked pretty good. It was a tragedy to me that “worldly” feminists cared more about abused church women than their so-called “brothers in Christ” did.
Fortunately, a Charismatic man named J. Lee Grady wrote a book called “Ten Lies The Church Tells Women” that changed my life. He was the first Christian man I ever saw who dared to call abuse against women a sin. Kind of sad that someone who grew up in church and did eight years of Christian school and four years at BJU had to make it to age 30 before I saw a man lived who had that kind of courage… read it again, 30! I’m now a member of Christians for Biblical Equality and haven’t looked back.
I feel the same way Natalie.
Reminds me of a great lyric by Larry Norman . . .
“They say to cut my hair, they’re driving me insane.
I grew it out long to make room for my brain.”
Shakespeare him were not
My hair is curly and won’t go into the acceptable style. I’m doomed.
We had the same rules at my fundy school. Unfortunately the rules were not effect black people hair because ours never touched our collars. We had huge afros and were in line with the rules. 😆
Oh wow. I went to Harvest Christian Academy! No kidding. I think I was the only one in my grade as a high school junior. The curriculum was ACE which I believe gave way to Abecca, but I’m not sure. I never thought about it again. For my senior year I went to George Washington High School. Really some of my best memories. HCA would have killed paradise for me.
hey, I had a friend who got a perm of his red hair for that very reason. Of course he didn’t look as good as some of my brothers with the sweet afros, he ended up looking pretty much like Napoleon Dynamite.
“Holiness demands you to look more like Christ. Legalists want you to look more like them.” -Caner
Wow – awesome quote. Scarily true.
I teach at Harvest Christian Academy in Guam, and I promise that this is not in the rule book and hasn’t been for at least the 13 years I’ve been teaching here…
I have always wondered why “tapered” short hair was more godly than “blocked” (non-tapered) short hair. Chalk it up to one more reason many fundies make no sense.
Yes, because we all know that Jesus looked exactly like a Baptist preacher