189 thoughts on “Removing All Doubt Redux”

    1. I would like to thank the Academy, my Mom and Skippy my pet kangaroo. Being first is a dream I’ve had for years now.
      I dedicate this butt cushion to all those who believed in me and never gave up. There’s the music so thank you SFL and all my fans!

        1. We aren’t “name it claim it” here. The first poster is automatically elected to receive a beautiful butt cushion courtesy of someone else’s free will.

        2. The butt cushion is a lie. Either that or church politics should be blamed.

  1. The whole Bible from beginning to end is full of male leadership. And it starts with male leadership plunging the world into chaos and damning billions to hell, and it ends with male leadership destroying the world so bad, God has to burn it up and start over. Hmmm…

  2. I am not surprised at all that he said what he did, but it still makes my blood boil. “This is a man’s world!” Ugh. I really, really, really, really hate people like him.

    1. Based on the goofy facial expression that he made after that statement I think he might just as well have said it’s a fool’s world.

    2. As a groom to be I have learned throughout this wedding process that it is a woman’s world and I just live in it ☺

      1. TokenCatholic, you are a very wise man, and your bride-to-be is one lucky lady! 🙂

        1. Ha! I keep telling her that every chance I get, maybe you will be able to convince her 😉

      2. As a father of two brides, I learned early on that my job was to say, “That’s nice. Here’s another check”.

      3. Hmmm, that’s a purpose for all the wedding planning rigamarole I hadn’t thought of– to teach the future husband how insignificant he really is. 😉

        1. I thought that the bride plans the wedding because it’s the last freedom she’s ever going to have…


        2. That’s my current understanding too lol. I am merely another detail to her big day

    1. Yeah – my thoughts exactly. A reporter called him about his intentionally provocative sign and his first thought was to call an attorney???

      1. Then again, the CLA does have many hundreds of pounds of male leadership, so there’s that.

    1. Edited, of course to make sure the women are barefoot, pregnant, and cooking. Until the man gets home, of course, at which time she is in her nice dress, heels, pearls, and ready to meet his every whim.

      Personally I’m glad I don’t live like that.

        1. I’ll be barefoot in the kitchen in a bit. Someone has to cook, and I’m home and the wife is at work. I think tonight will be crusted chicken on a bed of pasta with a spicy tomato sauce.
          I’ll get on that when I get back from the laundromat.

  3. “All churches that are right with God should have a male leadership sign” Funny, I don’t remember that admonition in Paul’s letters

      1. At least we get Joan of Arc….and Mary…and women saints named Doctors of the Church who were educated (even women medical Doctors who are held up as examples of heroic virtue) ….not to mention that women can teach men and men are more than ok with it. No sermons on wifely submission…

        1. Exactly! Not to mention all the female lay leadership in the local parish. I think a lot of pastors figure women basically run the parish. The priest is just there to celebrate the Sacraments and stuff.

          And, as those of us who were Taught By Nuns(TM) back in the day can attest, those Mother Superiors were pretty tough cookies, too.

          Yep, I have a hard time crediting the argument that Catholicism is male-dominated. 😀

    1. “Funny, I don’t remember that admonition in Paul’s letters.”

      Especially not when Paul was giving shout-outs to female leaders in the churches.

  4. This guy have a wife? He better work really hard at keeping her in her place because the minute he lets go, she is going to damage him.

    1. I like the word “damage” as opposed to “dump” or “leave” – more likely in fundy circles

      1. Guys, in a social circle where everyone carries “weapons,” per this pastor, you don’t want to piss off the women at home.

  5. And then there’s the side story of a gun left in the men’s room. Why even bring that up in a sermon – unless to boast that church members are packing

    1. “Whip your gun out and put it in the holster there.”

      That’s what he said.

      I’m trying very hard not to ROFL.

      1. He’s just trying to insist that the men of the church do indeed have ‘guns’. To allude to Scorpio’s joke, he has forgotten where his pen is.

        1. I put my guns into my sleeves.

          And it is no joke!!! Does anyone know where my pen is?

    2. I’m picturing a Fundie cop show. “Sgt. Mog of the God Squad: Armed and Fundamentalist”

      1. And when a church lady grabs a handful of bus flyers on soul winning night, Sgt. Mog kindly but firmly admonishes her, “Just the tracts, Ma’am!” Or is that “Bragnet?”

        1. Hey! That was a “Spring Program” campaign at the old Church: DragNet – we were supposed to go all-out to get converts.
          Bragnet would certainly be more like it, and exalting man to the exclusion of God.
          Plenty of “just the tracts, ma’am” comments.
          Loud four-note “Dragnet” theme before announcing “winners.”

    3. How I detest the word “packing” as slang for carrying a gun! We have some right wing gun nuts at my workplace and they are very, very fond of discussing their views at length during staff meetings. (Item: the organization I work for has NOTHING to do with guns, gun rights, etc.) A co-worker and I have made a habit of counting the number of times the word “packing” is uttered during these diatribes – it usually averages several times per minute.

      We were particularly amused to discover recently that only ONE of our bloodthirsty Second Amendment crowd actually “packs.”

      1. My apologies for using the offensive word – I hope your co-worker doesn’t leave it in the restroom

      2. I’m jealous! All I ever hear at meetings is BS Bingo jargon like “leveraging,” “learnings,” “ideating,” “thinking outside the box,” “bringing our A game,” “low-hanging fruit,” “run it up the flagpole,” “granular,” “tasked,” “bring to market,” and other examples too nauseating to mention.

        1. Let’s not forget the latest – “swim lanes”. As in “we must maintain discipline in our swim lanes while we optimize our leadership’s core values.”

          Yeah I just threw up in my mouth typing those words out.

        2. BJg, that site is priceless! I have used it during meetings to bring pointless discussions to a screeching halt. I even began posting comments using the generator on our Corporation’s intranet under the more politically motivated articles. It was my way of telling the CEO that I was calling “Bullshit” on the article. It caught on so quickly with others that the co. blocked access to the generator in about a month. 😛

        3. Oh, I feel so bad for you, Gate-Crasher. I hear enough of those words as it is.

          I once emailed a record label to get a review copy of a CD, and the woman who got the email forwarded it to someone and asked him to “service” me, as I had “reached out” to them. Gag.

          Words like that are starting to make “impact” look good. 🙁

        4. I hate the word “service” when used as a verb. It just makes me think of the world of stud animals.

        5. You forgot “interactive user experience.” I’m in the middle of submitting proposals for our annual meeting in the fall and the next time I type that phrase I’m doing a shot. I hate it.

        6. One that drives me crazy is “Executive Summary.”
          I’ve asked a lot of people who use that term what the difference is between a summary and an executive summary, and none of them could give me an answer, but they keep using that phrase.
          I guess stuff just sounds more powerful if you throw the modifier “executive” in there.
          I’m going to eat an executive sandwich and drink an executive glass of tea now.

        7. The Executive Summary is much like the regular summary, but dumbed down so the C-level people can understand it.

  6. He sounds like so many blowhards I have sat and listened to before. I do not miss any of it at all. I can only take 2 minute doses of this now. Imagine how often we sat/still sit through an hour of this crap. They are so proud of their ignorance and misogynistic views.

  7. Oh boy. He’s not even subtle in his misogyny. He comes right out with it. “It’s a man’s world.” So in his opinion those of you who are not men have no place in the world. What a pig. I feel sorry for his wife, his daughters, his sisters, his mother, and if he’s a “pastor” for any woman in his congregation. I feel sorry for any woman who is unfortunate enough to come into any kind of contact with him. And he thinks his opinions please God. Not the God of the Bible. He’s as far away from being like Jesus as you can get.

    1. Agreed. I can’t imagine how awful it must be to be a woman in his family or congregation. No wonder so many woman in fundamentalism are depressed. We are taught that we are worthless and that our thoughts and opinions don’t matter. And then after being treated like crap day in and day out, we’re still supposed to have a smile on our face and act like life is wonderful. It’s so maddening!

      1. Exactly! This thinking turns confident, fearless women into insecure, desperate servants—or rebels–in every good sense of that word (although I’ve heard fundies call them Jezebels?? Yikes! )
        I love that funds cite Prov 31 as their proof text when that woman looks nothing like their narrow view. None of the women do. Hmmm….
        Yep, it’s sermons like these that make me so so thankful to be out!

        1. Yes, Handsathearcenter! I remember preachers referring to most women who could think for themselves and would speak up as “Jezebels.” It was so infuriating! They would preach that God loved women and valued them, but you wouldn’t know it from the way women were treated in the church.

      2. Name names, Rebecca A. What church, what pastor? Too much secrecy today. To heck with decorum. My screenname? That’s me.

        1. Haha! Joshua, I will happy to provide more info. 🙂 I grew up in Faith Baptist Church in Brandon, FL; however, the man who pastored the church while I attended is no longer the pastor as of last year. I’m not sure what he’s doing now. And, I attended Pensacola Christian College from 1996 – 2000. Will that suffice?

        2. Nobody is obligated to name names if they do not want to.
          There are some pretty unstable people in many of those churches, and no one wants to get harassed irl over it. I know of one IFB pastor in PA who called a guy’s new pastor to rat him out over posts on the FFF.com. Another person called someone’s husband (not that it did a bit of good, but they were trying).
          Besides, some here have family members still in the compound and do not want to make their family life even more miserable.

        3. Used-to-be-Fundy, you bring up a good point. Fundies sure do like to “tattle.” A lot of them do it under the guise of “only trying to save your soul,” which is a bunch of crap.
          But, I don’t mind saying what church I went to. And, I will only post things on here that I’ve heard said from the pulpit or have been said directly to me from a fundy. I have heard rumors as to why my former pastor is no longer the pastor, but I wouldn’t post that in a public forum because I have no evidence to support what I’ve heard. I will say this, though: whatever the reason, I am glad he’s no longer preaching.

        4. I understand that there are unstable people who may cross the line but I think these shepherds who eat the flock need to be named. Protect yourself first, but put the information out. We talk about things being covered up or swept aside, let’s not be party to it by staying silent if we are in a position to speak. No one should assert speculation and innuendo as fact, but let the facts be known.

        5. Another good point, Joshua! I honestly don’t mind sharing the name of the pastor I grew up with, but he’s not longer pastoring, thankfully, so it’s a moot point.
          What you said about secrecy reminded me of something that happened when I was about 14. I told a friend of mine in the youth group about my parents separating a few times when I was much younger and how my dad even had a girlfriend for a while before he and my mom finally reconciled. I told her because her dad had dated the same woman when her parents first divorced and it was something we had in common. Well, I don’t know how my pastor found out, (probably because my friend had innocently mentioned it to her mom) but once he caught wind of it, he confronted me and told me that I should never talk about that again and that it wasn’t something to be shared.
          I was so incredibly angry with him! Why did I have to keep quiet about something that happened to me? And, I grew up in a pretty small church community so most people knew what had happened between my parents. I wasn’t spreading lies or gossip; it was the truth. And, if I wanted to talk about something that happened to me personally, I feel that I should have been able to tell whomever I pleased.
          I agree with you that there is far too much secrecy in the church. I think it only serves to protect the guilty and not the innocent.

      3. If I’ve said it a once, I’ve said it a million times, many IFB’s actually are churches that are run by henpecking women, who allow or even push the men to stand in the pulpit and blow this junk out of their pie hole. I bet you this guys wife makes it hell for him if he doesn’t do things her way. I’ve seen it too many times in IFB’s. Its why every one of the churches I’ve been too have been largely populated by women. You will lead me, my dear husband, in the direction I tell you. I will stay at home and crank out kids and do jack crap, as the older kids do the housework and you work to support all 10 of us. And I swear, every business meeting I’ve been to would have ended half an hour sooner if it wasn’t for these same women waxing on and on about how we were going to do things now. And how many projects have I worked on because the pastor’s wife said she wanted this or that?

        1. I have seen that before, too. Not at the church I grew up in, but I’ve known people who grew up in IFB churches where that happened. Neither scenario is pleasant. We are all equal.

        2. Larry, amen, amen, amen! I tried to say just that to Alandra, but you put it so much better than I did!

        3. In many cases the public blowhardiness is simply an indication of how little control over their own life some of these dickwads actually have, its a way to prove how manly they are but doesn’t actually translate to real power.

          The other side of the coin is a number of women in these types of marrriages/churches I have seen who were more than happy for this to be the public presentation of their place in the relationship, all the fawning over the man, the supposedly patriarchal respect for the husband/father/pastor, while in reality they ran the kingdom with an iron fist and were only concerned that no one knew about it.

          Obviously there are jerk-offs maybe even like this guy who really are that obnoxious with all the he-man wimmen-haterz club stuff, and are actually oppressing the women under their influence, but many times this is only a public facade that protects the real power behind the throne from charges of being overbearing. I have seen this especially among the more patriarchal homeschooling families I have run across, the whole thing was a sham to allow the woman who wanted to be seen as demure and submissive to run the whole show. It was an eye-opener for me for sure, and makes me wonder how real some of this public grandstanding is, as it seems to be way to hyperbolic to be real.

          Poe’s law also makes it hard to tell…

        4. I’ve definitely seen the Woman Behind the Man Behind the Pulpit scenario, but the one that really ticks me off is the one I see most often in IFB-lite churches where the pastor tells all kinds of jokes and stories from the pulpit about what a controlling harpy is wife is. My dad’s pastor’s favorite punch line is “yes, dear,” accompanied by a dramatic eye roll. I want to throw a hymnal at him every time he trots it out. I mean, if his wife really does have his balls in her Vera Bradley bag, it’s his fault as well as hers. That’s not how marriages are supposed to work and it chaps my ass that this is a guy that does premarital counseling as part of his ministry. Ugh.

    2. Alondra, I feel sorry for his wife and any daughters too, except for the strong possibility that it’s not really like that at home. I know plenty of fundy women who pay lip service to the “submissive woman” culture yet have learned to influence their man in ways that he never sees or suspects… and that is only meant as a slam to the man, bless his heart.

  8. And I’m sure after the “free publicity” of the news story on the sign, the people in the county lined up to get inside.

    Now that I think of it, maybe all churches should put their list of pet peeves, um I mean rules/beliefs on the sign out front for all to see. The IFB is good at getting someone in the door and “saved”. Then after you get dunked, they give you the rule book. Funny how the Romans Road makes no mention of hair length, dress length, music, church attendance, tithing or any number of requirements in order to be a member in good standing. It is kind of like a bait and switch scam.

    1. Oh yes, they are very much into Bait and Switch techniques. An example of this is some Bible colleges’ reluctance to give a copy of the Official Rule Book to prospective students. No, no, they wait until after (nonrefundable) paid registration to drop all the rules on them.

      I wish I had known in advance how deep into legalism my former church was. Instead we got Love Bombed and ushered into the cult.

  9. “Stupid is as stupid does.”

    He must be one of the nutty, fruity caramel chews in Forrest Gump’s box of chocolates!

  10. In the spirit of male leadership, I would like to make a motion that his church replace the sissy wire/vine thingy around the baptistery with some manly BARBED WIRE!! And I see a second and will everyone please indicate their support with their hand up and then down amen.

    1. I sure hope you made sure only the men voted on that motion. We can’t trust the women to make that kind of decision. Souls are at stake here my friend. You never know if our appearance could scare away a few good men. The movie wasn’t called a few good women. And that’s because they couldn’t find any. Amen?

      1. One of the Mennonite “godly womanhood” magazines to which my mother used to subscribe once had an article instructing the “dear readers” to order absentee ballots for themselves and any children over the age of 18 living at home and then let the Father fill them out. “This way,” readers were admonished, “you will multiply your Head’s vote many times over!” Never mind the fact that this idea constituted blatant voter fraud.

        1. Yes, that’s highly illegal– although it’s not illegal to ask your “head” (hmmm) how to vote and then vote that way yourself.

        2. I heard a guy once say he made major decisions, but let his wife make all the minor ones. He could decide what our foreign policy should be, how to manage the national debt, and other similar items. She decided small scale things like where they should live, what car to drive, and other mundane matters.

        3. UncleWilver, lol, I heard that joke with a bit of a twist; I make all the big decisions, she makes the small ones… so far, nothing big has come up.

        4. It’s a twist on the old, “Of course I wear the pants in my family. I wear whichever pair she picks out”.

        5. This surprises me. Most Mennonite groups strongly discourage their members from voting at all.

        6. Make all the jokes you want about a woman being in charge of a relationship. I make sure I always, and I mean always, get the last word in any discussion with my wife.

          And that word is dear. As in “yes dear”, “of course dear”, “anything you say dear”.

      2. Deputy Curley: The boss says, “Come and get it.”

        Buck “Pearly” Sweet: I’ll thank you to remember there’s only one boss around here.

        Deputy Curley: Yes, sir, and she says, “Chow’s down.”

        — The Three Godfathers, 1948

  11. “…because that’s the only kind of leadership both from Adam all the way to the last part of the Bible. It’s all been male.”

    Either he’s not familiar with the Bible or his Bible has pages missing.

    How un-Christ-like! He has a warped view of Christianity. In true Christianity, it doesn’t matter if it’s a man or woman teaching or preaching. What matters is God’s word being preached and taught. This mere man and others like him are denying half the population from doing that.

    1. One of the Fundy rules is that you need make only passing reference to what’s actually in the Bible to bloviate about what’s “Biblical.”
      Noticing the parts where women were obviously leaders would require stopping waving that book around long enough to read it.

    2. All my memories of Fundystan make me think they straight up disregard everything about the early church, except for the flaws that Paul wrote about, so it’s not surprising they disregard the female leadership that the Bible records, too.

  12. Couple of observations:
    1. When he stated “It’s a man’s world”, he expected the men to reply with a hearty “amen”. There was a very feeble amen, probably because their wives would have killed them when they got home.
    2. The side bar story: gun left in restroom. What in the world? A kid could have walked in and done some real damage. That is the epitome of irresponsibility. Whoever owns that weapon should have it taken away!
    Can’t say more, my blood pressure is too high.

    1. Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just excited about today’s e-pistol reading?

      Paul’s Letter to the Tombstonians, right?

      1. When I was a student at HA”C,” a student was apparently playing with a gun in his suit jacket pocket when it went off during chapel. Thankfully no one was killed or seriously injured, although I believe a male student may have been hit by splinters when the bullet exited the back of the pew. The institution’s leadership kept the incident very quiet and got rid of the student who accidentally discharged the pistol in a hurry.

  13. I’m always reminded during the Gospel lesson on Easter that the first people to hear that Jesus rose from the dead was a female – and they were the first to share the good news. Jesus set the standard for female preachers.

    1. Amen and Amen…..in all the Gospels–it is the women first…they don’t necessarily understand it completely and the men doubt their testimony when it is given…but the most important message in all of Scripture was left to women to tell.

      1. The women remained at the foot of the Cross, too, while all the disciples (except John) fled like frightened rabbits.

        In the East, Mary Magdalene is called “the Apostle to the Apostles” because of her testimony to Peter and John on Easter morning.

        (And, of course, the very first evangelist was Mary, who carried the Good News — literally — to Elizabeth.)

        1. Mary was also the first Christian teacher: “Do whatever He tells you.”

        2. Jesus revealed to the Samaritan woman (the woman at the well) that he is the Christ and she was the first evangelist to Samaria. In fact, due to her soul winning / preaching, Jesus stayed two days in Samaria and they had an evangelistic meeting! Many people believed because of her testimony, and that’s straight out of the KJV. 🙂

      2. Yes! I remember when my new pastor taught about Jesus’ first appearance after his resurrection. He first showed Himself to women and told them to tell the apostles. That made them the first missionaries to share the Good News of Jesus’ resurrection. What a privilege!
        That was a game changing perspective for me after all those years in the IFB. Jesus does not consider women second class citizens.

        1. You need a little perspective on the Middle Eastern culture of the time to see just how radical it was that Jesus treated women pretty much as equals.
          He turned everything upside-down.

  14. A hundred thousand dollars of free publicity, eh?

    If you’re the type who wants to advertise the fact that you’re a huge hemmorhoid in the sphincter of your community, I guess that sounds good to you.

    1. but again, the message is not to draw all people to the Gospel…it is only to draw all people who think like them to their church….

    2. If the good Lord were to give the world an enema, he’d stick it right in the Gospel Baptist Church.

  15. I was almost as shocked as the preacher man when there was almost a dead silence when he said “Its a man’s world.” I think he was expecting a lot of “amens” and some clapping….he had to coax the men to show some sort of approval….and then it was somewhat weak…unless they only have about 10 men attending…

    And yes, it is always male leadership in Scripture– darn those pesky women like Huldah and Deborah, Junia and all the Mary’s in the New Testament…and Lydia…–we just have to sweep them all under the rug…

    1. Leanne,

      Silly woman, God used those women to shame the men for their failure to lead. Please keep in mind that as a woman, you are inherently incapable of reading and understanding the Scriptures on your own and you really should keep silent on matters such as these. If you have a husband, he clearly isn’t doing his job or you’d better find a husband who will keep you in your place.

      And it’s all those damned, liberal feminists that have neutered the men in his church. Maybe if they looked down the barrel of one of the pistols those men are carrying, they’d be scared straight and put in their place. And they need to be scared straight because all feminists are really lesbians.

      Unfortunately, I’ve spent too much time around some whacked-out religious wing-nuts to know how they’d respond to the rather obvious fact that God had no problem recruiting women to lead.

      1. While you rightfully spoke to the fact that women were obviously not God’s first choice in leadership—(although the Scripture they use for that is the story of Deborah–her being a judge was not the exception to the rule–it was the credit for the battle that was going to a woman because a man wouldn’t stand up)–but you forgot to mention the argument that Junia was really a man (despite the fact the name Junia is the feminine form)….

        1. In the twelve years I have served in my current church, there have always been at least two women on the leadership council (a total of four members at large plus myself), and I couldn’t imagine not having their gifts and wisdom in this capacity. Anyone who believes that women aren’t capable or called to leadership within the church seem to overlook a LOT of scriptural evidence to the contrary. I know the passages they love to pull out, but if they actually looked at some of the grammar and socio-historical context of what Paul wrote, they might realize the text doesn’t mean all that they think it does.

    2. I’m thinking that maybe there was no response because even the men thought “what a load of crap”, but they didn’t dare defy the MOG either.

      1. Looking at that clip again (I’m a glutton for punishment), I do think he expected an enthusiastic response that never came to his “it’s a man’s world” crap.
        It seems that most of the congregation is silently asking “How did we get such an idiot for a pastor?”

  16. “You keep using that text, I do not think it means what you think it means”

    1. This should have been directly under thlipsis statement, but George decided to visit and play his gremlin games.

        1. Yes, and I love ’em both.
          What I wouldn’t give for a Pacer in good condition right now …

  17. The best example of make leadership is Jackie Gleason shaking his fist and uttering, “One of these days, Alice, to the moon.”

    That preacher needs to sustain a little bit of the strategy employed in the play “Lysistrada.” (Spelling?) The ladies who were fed up with their husbands continually marching off to war, got together and decided to withhold the one thing most desired by their husbands. Perhaps if Mrs. Preacher were to adapt that strategy, this pastor would be singing a different tune.

    1. Ralph Kramden’s threats are disturbing in “The Honeymooners,” even though they’re pretty much all bluster. If you watch closely, you realize he never carries out any of his threats, and never hits Alice or his pal Ed or anyone else.

  18. So am I the only one wondering if this jackass planted the gun in the bathroom himself because his jackass sign hadn’t gotten any media attention? He seems pretty thrilled about it regardless.

    1. Are you suggesting that a preacher made up a story? That would never happen. 😉

    2. From the Simpsons “Joy of Sect” episode:

      Rev. Lovejoy about to torch the church: I never thought I’d have to do this again.

  19. What amazes me is that there are any ladies left in that church. on the other hand they don’t let women get educations or have careers so if they did try to leave they would live destitute lives. Still, even my wife wouldn’t tolerate that crap and she’s pretty hard core fundy.

  20. Fortunately I haven’t had to sit through much nonsense like this. Unfortunately, in all the fundy churches I have been in, “male leadership” was the Rule. So much so, it didn’t even need to be preached on.

    Of course, some would say it wasn’t even an issue because no women tried to become deacons. Like other forms of discrimination, the ones with the Power prevent any challenge from appearing.

    Such attitudes with their “touch not God’s anointed” sneering at everyone else demonstrate how corrupt the whole system is. I have no doubt that if BJU had female leadership (real, not titular), it counseling policies on rape and abuse would be very different. If Walter Freemont had accountability to female leadership, he would have been fired for his misogynistic laying of blame on the girls in cases of father-daughter abuse.

    As it is, these MoGs aren’t reveling in “male leadership” so much as they are reveling in “no accountability.” They cannot be touched, they think. It is equivalent to the Divine Right of Kings.

    They really need to have sudden, open scrutiny of all their doings. Every secret thing needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

  21. 1 Timothy 2
    1. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    2. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    Years ago my pastor once said that Paul was actually giving women an elevated status in these verses. During this time in history the culture was that women were either discouraged or even forbidden to learn and gain knowledge, that was for men only. Paul was going counter-culture by saying that this is wrong, women have as much right to gain knowledge as men and should not be excluded. Wonder how this guy would preach these verses?

    1. I imagine he would say the culture of Biblical times is what we should follow to the letter now.

    2. Regardless, what a woman does in a church service has nothing to do with her position in other venues.

  22. This video is really disturbing to me – but not the part about “male leadership.” We’ve been free for so long that we can roll our eyes at stupid statements like that.

    The statement about the gun left in the bathroom was what bothered me. My husband is an avid hunter and gun enthusiast. And never in a million years would he be careless like that with any firearm. All of his guns are unloaded and locked away in a safe. He has the utmost respect for guns and the harm they can cause if handled improperly.

    But this “preacher” seems to be proud of someone’s carelessness. He wouldn’t be so arrogant if a child had gotten hold of it.

    1. The gun part was the most disturbing story. They seem to find women in leadership more dangerous than the leaving a gun behind in a bathroom.

      1. Exactly!

        I come from a family of hunters (and fishers). No halfway responsible hunter would sling firearms around the way these assclowns do.

  23. Of course this guy is goofy, but once again, so is SFL not to recognize differences between male and female….

    1. There are differences between the genders, innate ability to lead is not among those distinctions/differences.

  24. So, is there NO reason then, why Jesus chose 12 male disciples?…Why did God choose to create Adam first? Why did God select Abraham? Why did God select Moses?

    I’m not saying that women can’t lead…..in fact, I’m not really saying anything at all …..I’m pointing out the fact that God appears to choose men in leadership roles, more often than he does women!

    SFL makes alot of fun of everyone, but I don’t see anyone (of faith) wrestling with this question of why does God, more often than not, seem to select men for leadership roles.

    “Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.” (1 Peter 3:7)

    Please no attacks, simply looking for some intelligent dialogue on the role gender plays in the plans of God….love to hear PW’s comments!

    1. God worked, and still works, within a culture. Most cultures in this world have long been male-dominated.

      Of course, Jesus breaks through and Paul writes: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female . . . all are one in Christ Jesus.”

    2. Jesus also chose 12 Jews. Does that mean non-Jewish people can’t be leaders?

      I can’t see female disciples happening at that point in history, to be honest. Jewish law was especially strict in regards to women, and Gentile culture at the time was perhaps even more limiting to women. But once Jesus fulfilled the Law, the first people we see him appearing to are women, and women rose to leadership positions in the early church. Personally, I think that’s very telling. From a historical standpoint, accounts of Jesus mention women in positive roles (and not just as “wife of so-and-so) and mention them by name far more often than other religious traditions. Although it may be hard to see now, Jesus elevated women through his ministry to a degree that was pretty revolutionary for his time.

    3. Before we get too carried away with the importance of penises to leadership, one of those 12 was a real scoundrel stealing money and behaving in what could be be described as judas like.

    4. I started out amused until George messed with my phone …

      Still, Greg, I want you to know I appreciate your courage in asking your question. It took a good bit of it, knowing we are not only out of Fundystan, but are anti-fundy as well. We have the venomous posts to prove it, with the charred remains of Fundy trolls to top the cake with.

      I have often been troubled by the assertion that God chose to reveal Himself to only one family, one branch of the human race, a petty, paternalistic pile of pathetic palookas who were promised land which belonged to others, gardens which others had planted, whose ancestor was rightly called “supplanter” and proved it with an unerring knack.

      The Law reflects the paternalism of the culture. In every aspect of the Law the view is promulgated that women are worth less, are more unclean, more sinful and offensive than are men.

      Okay, men are unclean, too. In a moral and legal system that ultimately views you, the individual, as Property, it would have to make that assertion. But at least men are Less Unclean than women.

      Unless you are a Gentile. Any Jewish woman is worth more than any Gentile. But even there, Gentile women are lower than even Gentile men. Don’t believe me? As the ultra-orthodox Jewish scholar! Read what Jesus said to the woman of Syrophoenecia.

      Religion has, everywhere and in all times, been used to make its adherents feel special, everyone else look expendable or worthless, and keep the Power in the Hands of the Few Who Deserve It. Men happened to write those laws, yes even the Law. God didn’t value the souls of everyone until after Jesus Christ.

  25. It’s a man’s world until it comes to their Ice Cream Bus. Copied from the church website: We use only women outside the bus, who are all background checked and well proven in character, to make contact with the parents and take the names of the kids who will give them to us. As an example, the first time a group of four women took one of our ice cream trucks into a neighborhood, they took 17 new names down and had 7 of those kids come to Sunday School and church the next Sunday. A week later, they received 13 new names. One week later, they received 23 new names. That is 53 new names in three weeks! In all my years of calling, I never have been that successful in getting new names for any bus route I did in such a short period of time.


    1. My parents always warned me not to accept candy, ice cream, or rides from strangers.
      Now I know why.

    2. Funny how some ministries seem to favor the “stalker” model.

      Well, I am sure they mean well. And many of the ones they pull in won’t stay but just a little while. Many of the ones they do pull in they don’t exactly look forward to keeping around.

      Once they pull them in, however, they are usually “stuck” unless they can discourage the unwanted child from coming.

      I’ve seen it happen in Wednesday night AWANA. Nobody admits to wanting or trying to turn someone away, but it happens.

  26. I was so fascinated by this MOG’s stupidity that I went to their website and pulled up the message that this clip came from so I could listen to the context. The message was from 3/29/15, entitled “Everything Rises and Falls on (male) Leadership.” If you thought this clip was a gem, you should listen to the message. From watching the short clip, I realized this guy is an ass clown, but knew it for sure when I listened to the message. Within 5 minutes into his message, he says:

    “I really, really have a bit of an over-reaction when I see bumper stickers that say ‘my child is on the A honor roll at such n such school.’ That just really… I just want to rear-end them. I never did it, but I threatened to… my wife really called me off this over and over again. I wanted get a bumper sticker that said ‘my child flunked out at the elementary school, but he whipped your child every day.’ I just think that the smartest people aren’t always the best people. The A student at Bob Jones University over a long period of time (when they study the grades of the students)… they failed more often than the C students. Are you listening to me?

    Oh in Academia, we try to exalt the A and B students and say “whooo whooo”… you know the sun rises and fall on you kids. But you know the truth is, in reality, the C students run the whole world (shouting)!!!!

    After saying all this and pouring out his contempt of smart people, he continues to say… I was one of those poor, unfortunate A & B students… and was also willing to work. I never thought that made me more elite. I was humbled that God gave me the ability.”

    Can you say “huh”?? Is there any better example of one of these MOGS talking directly out of both sides of their mouth???

    Why is it that these MOGs hate education and people who excel at higher learning. What’s scary is this guy runs a church school as well. My old MOG was the same and from the pulpit would accuse parents, who had high academic expecations for their children, of “worshipping the god of education”.

    How these guys get an audience , I’ll never know…

    1. ….bracing myself for an evening at the “sermons.” Might even pop some popcorn.

      1. You enjoy that. I’m off to shoot skeet with a couple of other ex-fundies.

    2. With no trace of irony, he asserts bald Darwinism. More violent is better than more intelligent.
      If I can read James backward, when someone decides to use violence it is because they have a desire that they can’t fulfill so instead of asking God for it and accepting His answer either way, they demand it and use violence to get it. That is where war and fighting comes from.

  27. For the love of God, please no more earth tone shirts underneath dark suits. It was never a good look, it sure isn’t now.

  28. After listening to approx. 2 mins of this drivel I am automatically thankful for my parents. They may have raised me Fundy-lite (hey, we’re Canadian so what can we say, we are to polite to be full on fundy!) And I may disagree with them on many things, but they never made me doubt my worth a a Human being and a girl/woman uniquely designed by God who was capable of anything. In fact my mom *gasp* worked outside the home as a nurse all my growing up years and faced tons of criticism even from her friends when my dad was finally making enough to support us on and she didn’t quit (of course 6 months later my dad injured his knee and has to have surgery on it and not work so its a good thing she didn’t) she just kept saying “Lydia worked. She worked hard running more than one business. And she was well respected. I’ll choose to be like her and see that my family eats vs. Being a martyr to stay home with my children” I respect my mom so much for raising my sister and I with that example. Anf my dad for teaching us by his example how women should be treated with respect and honour. They might still be fundies, but they were amazing (not perfect) parents.

    1. Wow, enviable and rare! The virtuous women in Proverbs 31 clearly ran her own businesses as well, while her husband sat. Heheh.

  29. All churches like this one should put up signs/banners like that so the rest of us can know off the bat which ones to avoid.

    1. It would work, although the sex of the leadership is irrelevant. “Pinhead leadership” would be a more honest advisory.

  30. Apparently, the whole reason the news media showed up at the church in the first place was NOT because of the sign. It was because a 9yr old boy came home from church with a gun he found in the bathroom. The pastor figured he would get some free advertising out of the media’s inquiry and rather than fully acknowledge and address the potentially dangerous situation – giving credit to God for His mercy – instead turned all the attention on his sign.

  31. I don’t remember this exact kind of ludicrousness – in chapel anyway. Offering college students in the late 1980s the opportunity to watch “Chitty Chitty Bang Bang” as the big “date night movie” is pretty extremely ridiculous. But services at BJU were pretty formal.

    Well, we were given kazoos once, but that was to promote the college when we were going home on break. It was purposefully silly. I don’t ever think we were forced to do children’s songs, much less with motions.

    1. The University saw itself too seriously to allow itself to be silly. Most of the students did, too.

      I can be silly around my family or my students. It is measured, though, usually in the form of puns or bad jokes. In class I use silliness to help with the lesson or to make a point memorable.

      But silly in front of many friends is just not possible.

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