176 thoughts on “College Promotional Videos: Fairhaven Edition”

    1. You were right about the music, Darrell – my LO starting waltzing around the living room as soon as the video came on. 🙂

      A few thoughts:
      1. Their campus is beautiful!
      2. Was that girl wearing a skirt while horseback riding? Or were those some sort of special pants?
      3. Those culottes were HUGE!
      4. It looks like the women’s skirts have to be like 4 inches past the knee. Am I correct in that?

        1. Just wondering if IFB couples have those sorts of conversations or if the womenfolk automatically assume they’re too fat?

        2. Sing to the tune of … “Count Your Blessings”(?):

          Honey, do my culottes make my butt look big?
          Or do I look just as skinny as a twig?
          Do I make you from the bottle take a swig?
          Do not answer, “yes”, or I your grave will dig!

        3. EC, women in my experience generally assume they’re too fat. Whether that’s Fundy or American culture, I can’t say. I’m considered obese by BMI standards, but I wear a size 10 which is just average. And I (fortunately) don’t have the negative body issues a lot of my friends did and/or do.

          This, despite my Fundy dad responding so lovingly when I expressed concern over some high school friends bingeing & purging, “What makes you think they’d listen to your advice? Do you think they want to look fat like you?”

      1. Are these people selling a college or a summer camp? Lots of scenes with kids playing sports, riding horses, a swimming pool, a nice lake, good food, clean-cut boys and girls. Not a classroom nor a book in sight. In fact, I didn’t really see anyone with books, just something that looked like a book bag.

        Reputable colleges sell academics. This bunch sells fun and games. If it were allowed, this bunch would be selling sorority and fraternity parties as well.

  1. The skirts alone should scare most women away. (Noticed how the women have to wear long skirts for tennis, too.) I also love how the men’s dorm is decorated with lots of taxidermied animals to remind them that they are MANLY HE-MEN.

        1. Thanks!
          For this one, I was torn between using Brave Combo’s version of this song in English and the Texas Tornados’ Tex-Mex version (both of which are great). I settled on this one of a Brazilian band singing it in a regional German dialect, because, well, why not?

        1. Kreine, you can have no idea how many polkas I have in my collection.
          But I’ll concede that the polka mass is the real deal. 😎

      1. Which being translated runs thusly: “In heaven there is no beer/ For this reason we drink it here/ If we don’t drink it here/ Others will.” At least that’s the Portuguese. I don’t know German, but I recognize “heaven” and “beer” in the title.

        Sad, really, that people have this No Fun impression of heaven. As there will certainly be fine aged wine in heaven, why not really good beer too?

        1. Brave Combo’s version goes:

          In Heaven there is no beer
          (No beer?!)
          That’s why we drink it here
          And when we’re all gone from here
          Our friends will be drinking all the beer.

          In Heaven there is no wine
          (No wine?!)
          So we drink till we feel fine
          And when we leave this all behind
          Our friends will be drinking all the wine.

          In Heaven there is no fear
          (No fear)
          So we worry too much here
          And we drink ourselves full of beer
          To help us when we deal with the fear.

          In Heaven there are no drugs
          That’s why we hang with thugs
          And when the Lord pulls the plug
          All the thugs will still be selling drugs, yeah.

          Thugs and drugs
          Beer…

          In Heaven there is no sex
          (Oh no!)
          So let’s do that next
          And when our muscles no longer flex
          Someone else will be having sex.

          In Heaven there are no wars
          Or cars, or movie stars
          And when we no longer are
          The world will probably still be having wars.

          What the heck! Yeah!

          Sex and war,
          Bars and cars.
          Drugs, thugs,
          And delicious food.

  2. I firmly believe this college is among the worst of the worst.

    Young women are pressured into eating disorders — weight standards must be maintained, y’all! Kids at the academy are brutalized.

    And that damned goose.

    Although it’s probably dead by now.

    Stupid goose.

      1. We’d wear garbage bags as we ran lap after lap around the lake and gorge on laxatives the week before weigh-in.

        So much fun!

        <— does not miss that at all

        1. Weigh in? Was that a school requirement? I know a lot of wrestlers do that. Surely they didn’t have a female wrestling team…?

        2. When I attended — and it may’ve changed since then — we had to take two years of PE to graduate. Required course for everyone regardless of major. We had to weigh in to pass PE. If you did not pass weigh in — meaning you gained weight or didn’t lose if you were overweight — you did not pass PE and had to retake it.

          When gaining even a few pounds stood between you and your degree, you’re going to be doing unspeakable things to get them off.

        3. The weigh-in requirement would probably have literally killed me.

          Sure, I gained the dreaded Freshman 15… and was promptly no longer freezing in the winter, no longer ‘dangerously underweight’ by BMI and Body Fat %, and no longer at risk of real problems any time an illness killed my appetite for a few days… and you can’t tell a difference from two feet away much less across the room.

          I thanked and continue to thank God for every single pound, and if I’d gone here, they’d have failed me for an answer to prayers for my health?

          And what about homeschooled kids never encouraged to go run around outside who start actually building muscle mass for the first time in their lives? “Oh sorry, you gained ten pounds of leg muscle this year and don’t have spare body fat left that your body is willing to let you lose so you’ll fail PE.”

        4. A friend of mine had to be careful not to gain any weight before basic training, but he was all muscle – he’s just short. I thought that was ridiculous. I’m glad you’re weight is better, megaforte!

        5. Darn you megaforte..we sound like about the same body type. I gained 15 lbs in school but lost it again the year after I graduated. Didn’t try to gain it or lose it. I’m not even on the BMI chart. I’ve been trying and trying to gain weight but I can’t do it. I felt so much healthier after I had gained those 15 lbs.

        6. PS I meant darn you as in I’m jealous that you were able to keep on that healthy weight 🙂

        7. I have heard this same weigh-in story from other Fairhaven graduates, as well as stories about the insane things girls would do to lose weight. First of all, it’s none of their business and second, that’s just sick. The ‘outside’ (facilities) looks nice, but what about the ‘inside’ (students being force-fed unhealthy ways of thinking and living?) Places like this still make me livid. I guess I still need more therapy!

        8. Persnickety Polecat, stress and hormones can make it nearly impossible to lose weight at times. Fundamentalism certainly creates stress. We know women naturally fluctuate and we all have different appropriate weights. That could literally have wrecked some women’s bodies as well as minds for years. It shows ignorance about science on their part to make a standard. I just can’t imagine going through that, I’m sorry you did. It’s such a gross abuse and misrepresentation of Christianity to young women.

        9. Looking back, I am so thankful that our daughter had the wisdom to pull our grandson out of the “Christian day school” at our IFB! He entered 3rd grade in public school reading at a 1st grade reading level because the teachers and principal considered my grandson rebellious because he acted out in school. NOW FOR THE TRUTH — He acted out in school because he was dyslexic and reading and math were a nightmare for the kid, but they didn’t want to label him with a learning “disability”! It’s so much better to label a kid rebellious!

          YEARS later, when I networked the entire church and school (for free) for them, I saw what kind of actual teaching was going on. When the kids are left in the classroom to teach themselves while the principal (who is the pastor’s son-in-law) spends his classroom time on line in his office selling eBay or not even in the building, and parents were paying over $3,000 a year for this type of “Godly education”!

          The son-in-law’s first job out of college was principal of the Christian day school. He never taught a day in his life before then! I had been teaching in public education for over 20 years already! 👿 👿 👿

      1. Way back in the dark ages when I attended, there were some swans on the lake and one goose. Not a Canadian goose but one of those fat white farm geese. But this thing was vicious! It would wander all over the campus, and if you happened to be out on one of the paths, it would attack. Sometimes it would just be a bite and others it would be a full-on flapping, snapping, chasing attack. I would wait until it was attacking someone else before darting across from the dorm to the main building, lol.

        I’m an animal lover, and I won’t even deny that I thought more than once how much that thing needed to be served on Christmas.

        Stupid goose.

        1. Not sure when you attended but our weigh in was not part of P.E. but had to be done every couple months and yes you got demerits. Also the goose bit a friend of mine and gave him horrible bruises

  3. I don’t like that the wimmin folk appear to be wearing denim jeans whilest riding the equine beasts!! wimmin folk (if they must be in the barn) should be in cullottes!!

    So sayeth the Shepherd!!

  4. The men’s dorm just creeped me out; I hate dead animals everywhere. And I’m kind of surprised they didn’t teach the skirt-wearing ladies to ride sidesaddle.

    1. Ha, just noticed the montage of fitness activities. Went from girls playing racquetball, an empty pool, boys weightlifting, girls on treadmills.

      What part seems strange here?

        1. Well, they couldn’t film anyone “swimming” because someone might accuse them of “mixed bathing”! :mrgreen:

  5. Well, they didn’t have the typical testimonials you would hear in a college promotional. Probably because at what point would you want to interrupt that snappy music.

    But watching the students walk around the campus, dining hall, etc….I kept hearing the voice of Gimli in the Lord of the Rings as he entered Edoras (in the movie) …”You’ll find more cheer in a graveyard.”

      1. To Persnickety: Before this post, I had never heard of this cult. I watched that video. Made Bob Jones seem downright mild. This is nothing but abuse. I sound like a broken record with past posts, but I still maintain that fundamentalism is founded upon male desire for absolute control over females and children. A male’s control over a female springs from an innate biological (evolutionary?) drive to reproduce, I believe. It has absolutely nothing to do with the male’s religious convictions. Rather, he uses the “beliefs” or “convictions” as weapons of control. It makes no difference whether he is a fundamentalist “Christian” or radical Muslim. They are the same. I am really sorry that you had to endure this cultish abuse.

      2. I’ve seen that CNN segment before. Every second of it is horrifying in what it shows, but the part that staggers me the most is that they persecuted one boy for taking piano lessons.
        Piano lessons!

        These people are nucking futs.

        1. I bet you they would have done the same thing for a girl taking trumpet lessons, even worse for tuba lessons. They would have called her Butch.

      3. I’m speechless. Obviously it’s all horrible. All of it. But what struck me was the way he abused those children for “failing” to run. I’m a runner, and my son is a runner. That’s just sickening. To punish s child in any manner for not finishing a 10 miler or not winning is just horrific. That’s a good way to have a child end up with a heat stroke, or stress fractures, or holy crap. I’m just stunned. Kyrie eleison.

  6. Fairhaven. Ugh. That’s the fundy lurking in my childhood. Despite new buildings and facilities…the people in that video look exactly as I remember them, beculotted and fuzzy haired…lots of lovely scenery you can look at but not truly enjoy.

  7. They like their modesty standards, but apparently can’t be bothered with food safety standards. The dressings at the salad bar (including what looked like bleu cheese and/or Ranch) weren’t even kept over ice.

  8. As one who went to a secular school (WE ARE PENN STATE!), I cannot IMAGINE such a mess.

    You’re becoming an adult, yet being treated as if you’re still 14.

    Ugh.

  9. Just to be clear, I have attended one Fundy U and one “secular” undergrad institution. I have attended two Christian seminaries and one “secular” graduate school. I have one fundy degree and one secular graduate degree. The gall of calling these place “colleges” is unbelievable. To be frank, there just isn’t any consistent quality of education. The fact is, scrubby little Southern Louisiana University’s undergrad program required more rigorous thinking and engagements than even the seminaries I attended. Don’t get me wrong, there are layers in education – even my secular grad degree doesn’t require the intellectual rigor of a Jesuit school or Ivy League. But the junk peddled as “education” in these fundy “colleges” is just a pathetic waste of money. IMNSHO.

    1. The money wasted is never that much unless you’re talking BJU, and it’s not a *complete* waste.

      Years of one’s life, however, are things you can’t take back. If there’s money lost it’s in earning potential, not the actual direct cost of the “education.”

        1. I’m just saying the real cost is opportunity cost: years of your life that you could have spent getting a real education, earning money, or having fun. That makes the few thousand dollars a year spent on the fundacation seem like a very small loss, relatively speaking.

          Some people’s therapy bills run higher than their church basement college tuition ever did.

    2. My dad is a dean at a small Christian college that has made every effort to have the highest standards and is full accredited by several secular organizations. They have smaller christian colleges trying to hitch themselves to his college all the time. 99.9% of them don’t even understand how accreditation really works and more likely don’t care. They just want to be able to say they are affiliated so they can make more money and have a place that will take their students and accept their credits.

    1. The measure of spirituality is whether or not a skirt is worn during exercise. The more spiritually mature the woman the longer the skirt and the more strenuous the activity. 🙄

    2. The sign said, “Find God’s will and do it.” That sounds fun, how do you know if you’ve found it? Is it like a game of hunt the thimble but it’s God’s hidden His will and you have to figure out what it is? Or do they mean vocation?

      1. The sign said, “Find God’s will and do it.” That sounds fun, how do you know if you’ve found it? Is it like a game of hunt the thimble but it’s God’s hidden His will and you have to figure out what it is? Or do they mean vocation?

        1. Didn’t you see the boulder that said “Find God’s Will and Do It.”? Which is pretty much the biggest fear to young fundies, that they might be out of God’s will. They should talk to Calvinists who like to try to figure that out too, just kidding. Seriously though, I can’t imagine trying to figure out God’s hidden, individualized will for my life. That is just ridiculous.

        2. @beensetfree: Decades ago, Garry Friesen wrote “Decision Making and the Will of God” which pretty much summed up for me, at the time, the reasons for why I didn’t need to waste time looking for that perfect individualized will of God for my life. It was a great help at that time.

  10. Here’s something that bothers me. How are these kids supposed to reach out to the world and have an influence on a fallen society if they are always secluded to isolated locations where everyone thinks and dresses the same?

    I’m not suggesting that we must send our kids out into the world unprepared or without convictions. I’m doubting that brainwashing them into a ‘Simon Says’ mentality isn’t the solution to preparing them to defend, proclaim and live out their faith.

    I feel for these kids because I expect their faith to be shaken when they start rubbing shoulders with folks from ‘the real world’ who will question them for answers they don’t know and haven’t experienced.

    Perhaps I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I get.

    1. I don’t know. I think that I’d be greatly influenced by people who dress like that, have bizarre social habits, engage in gender separation, and have leaders who get off on spanking young boys and girls.

      Face it, all, the leaders of this cult are a bunch of perverts. Seriously. They are spankers.

    2. These types of colleges are about keeping people in the IFB cult. Few of their students are going reach out to a “fallen” world. This is what will happen too many of the students. They will marry someone they met in college a few months after granulation. With no sex education, they will have their first children before their first anniversary. The young parents with no real job skills and a worthless education will soon be too busy working two or more jobs to support their family. Or he will enlist in the US Military. But like at people with Stockholm syndrome, they will praise the organization that had made them into preferment members of the white underclass

      1. I don’t think that these IFB colleges are just about the “secluding young minds from the evils of the world”.

        After our eyes were opened at our IFB church, we came to realize that these IFB pastors are all part of a “good old boys club”, and they support one another and encourage one another! For example, our pastor was college room mates with Dr. Trieber — he was focused on in another posting earlier. So once a year, our pastor goes out to Dr. Trieber’s college and teaches for a week. Missions conference, Dr. Trieber is our guest speaker. During the summer months, a singing group from Dr. Trieber’s church comes to visit, and our pastor jumps on the band wagon that you couldn’t send your child off to a more Godly college than Dr. Trieber’s.

        Congregation member has a teenager that won’t drink the Koolaid — o.k. — pastor brings in 2 more of his friends — Don Williams from Hephzibah House comes and presents his Godly ministry and what a wonderful place for your rebellious child to refocus on God. Then he brings in Pastor Roger Voegtlin from Fairhaven academy and college!

        They cover for each other, and they back each other up. Our pastor used to preach week after week about how you HAVE to send your child to a Christian day school and a good fundamental Christian college if you don’t want them dead in an alley because of a drug overdose! Our pastor painted a picture that Christian education K4 all through college was the ONLY way to save your kids. IRONICALLY a degree from the majority of these IFB colleges and 50 cents CAN’T buy you a cup of coffee because coffee is $1.29 and the paper your degree is printed on isn’t even worth 79 cents!

        The “Christian day school” at our former church — not one single teacher was actually a Michigan certified teacher so a kid with a real learning disability (like my grandson was) is labeled “rebellious” because the “teachers” have no idea how to help a dyslexic child because NONE OF THEM are actually trained teachers! The same thing goes on in these colleges — the majority of them don’t have an actually teaching degree from ANY STATE!

  11. I’m only about half-way through, but I got quite a good laugh with the image of two guys in a canoe rowing (rapidly) across a lake, and the next shot said “Ladies Dorm”. I still think that’s funny — it’s as if the Dorm were on an isolated island.

    1. …and then they have the Men’s dorm; at the end, a couple of guys are talking and looking across the water — toward the ladies’ dorm?? Perhaps they are saying, “Picking up a date here is TOUGH!” 🙂

  12. Nice Place. Thirty years ago I’d have gone based on that video, and perhaps a little visit.

    I’m turned off by the very end, “Committed to Excellence.” On the outward this seems great; and therein lies the problem. it’s the outward appearance that is emphasized and used to attract students and their potential financial contributors.

  13. I would bet money that the ONLY time the girls get to canoe, use the gym or the pool is when NO MEN are around because they don’t let them “intermingling” or fraternizing!

    I’m actually amazed that a girl was allowed to ride a horse in the video

    1. When old gospel songs are used for a college promotional video, you can pretty well assume that the college isn’t exactly into expanding the students’ knowledge of the wider musical world.

  14. Snack bar – and what on earth was that chap ladling over his plate? Canoes – but apparently only two of them on the lake at a time. And two black people as well – what more could a kid want in an educational establishment?
    And the facilities – my High School in the UK had better – apart from the lake – we didn’t have a lake. Which is presumably why none of us ever walked on water.

        1. I was guessing chili. Very very runny chili made by ‘cheap as we can make the food budget’ standards.

  15. Oh, one of my friends visited there and decided to attend. I told her that the promotional material scared me because every promotional photo with a woman had skirts down to the ankles (vs. PCC to the knee). She tried to assure me that not all the girls wore skirts that long. Two years later, she and I got into a spat about whether Baptists were the only Christians. I left feeling a bit like I had been slapped in the face by the school for brainwashing someone who had been fairly close for 3 years.

  16. The logo at the beginning immediately struck fear into my heart. You know, the fist pumping preacher silhouette, the same one behind the “S” in the Stuff Fundies Like logo? It said stay away, stay far, far away.

  17. Come on ladies. How cruel and ridiculous is it to make someone ride a horse with a skirt that goes down to the ground. Why are woman so punished in that world?

  18. As a former waterfront counselor at Camp Beeach Cliff on Mt. Desert Island in Maine, I can only say that those canoeers need to learn the freakin’ J-stroke. With all the paddling that seems to go on there, you’d think they’d know what the hell they’re doing. What a creepy awful place.

  19. Maybe someone who knows can confirm this, but back in the 90s I thought the rule for guys’ haircuts was that it had to be short enough that you couldn’t grab ahold of it to pull it and that was the way the RAs checked their hair?

  20. I’m a 2001 grad of Fairhaven, and when I was there guys had to wear a tie every time we went off campus, unless it was to work. Talk about sticking out like a sore thumb. Makes relating with people a bit hard (as Daniel pointed out above). Also we had to punch out and punch back in and get passes signed before we could go anywhere.

    What you don’t see in the video is the tired looks in the faces, I saw some of it. They overwork you so hard there.

    And yes, weigh in was required each year you were in college, I don’t think you failed PE but you did get demerits (which lead to detention or getting campused, read grounded).

    Someone mentioned the “he-man” mentality reinforced by the decor of the guy’s dorm. You should have seen wrestle-o-rama. That is actually perhaps the singular defining characteristic of Fairhaven: an overemphasis on manly toughness. And as the CNN video I think shows, this has led to abuse in some cases. Very sad.

    So glad the Lord opened our eyes to the errors of fundamentalism and the cultic mentality of places like Fairhaven. They mean well, many of them. They think this is really how to serve God. But it is an insular culture and I am so saddened by these kids. My freshman class was cut down into 3/4 by four years later. Most left, and some were smarter for it. Others were burned out and left on the wayside to die, without any real care for their souls. They were signposts for what could happen to us, rather than souls to be encouraged and helped.

    There is committed Christianity that is outside of fundamentalism. You don’t have to look like an Amish person to serve the Lord. You can care about pleasing the Lord and conclude differently than the Fairhaven leadership.

    May God continue to open the eyes of the “next generation” and may this kind of fundamentalism die on the vine.

    Bob Hayton
    FundamentallyReformed.com
    Rom. 15:5-7, Eph. 4:3-16

    1. Hi Bob, I linked your story a few comments above. You wrote your concerns in a kind and careful manner while still exposing serious theological issues that obscure the Gospel in that school and indeed much of the IFB system. It seems like your tone is the same today and praise be to Christ for it. Keep up the excellent blogging! -k

    2. I attended a good decade earlier. I wonder if the weigh-in policy was changed to demerits after someone’s parents complained? Girls — me included — were doing some desperate things to pass weigh-in, and I would not be at all surprised if someone else had developed a full-blown eating disorder that required treatment.

  21. I remember Ron Williams (of Hephzibah House infamy) telling our church that his son (Don? Ron? Da doo Ron Ron?) was given two choices for college… HAC or Fairhaven. He said (with daddy pride) that his son chose Fairhaven, because it was more strictly disciplined.

    Anecdote2: I was a route inspector for the U S Postal Service, which involved “shadowing” a Letter Carrier from time to time. Our team was in Chesterton, IN, and I was assigned to the Carrier who delivered to Fairhaven. He hardly spoke all day, but when he got to the campus mailroom, he told me “This place is a cult”. So… I got the impression that the “Townies” were wary of this place.

    1. And if people surrounding the place think it’s a cult, then what good are they doing there? Last time I checked, we weren’t supposed to exist simply to “minister” to those who think like us, we’re supposed to “go to all the world and preach the gospel.”

      If they’ve managed to convince those around them that they’re a cult, then what good are they actually doing?

      1. Our pastor had Ron Williams and Roger Vogelin (or however you spell his name) to our church — I’m sure he was just helping promote the “good old boy’s club”!

  22. Showed this to my hubby, he noted that in the girl’s dorm, there were eggs on the table – and in the boy’s dorm, there’s all these hunting trophies. Subtle messages about gender roles.

  23. Did they miss Gothard’s dictum that girls who like to ride horses have a problem with rebellion? I can’t believe Fairhaven is leading young Christian women astray like that!

  24. This place is pretty much pure evil. My mother attended there for a year, and during her time there became violently ill, which lead to her diagnosis of diabetes, all thanks to the lovely weigh-in policy. I’ve been there myself, once, on a youth group trip. Having rubbed shoulders with some staff and faculty, I never ever wanted to go back.

  25. I had a few friends growing up who went to Fairhaven.
    All of them were warped when they came home!
    The church we attended together as children called a
    Pastor who either attended there or was at least identical
    in philosophy with Fairhaven. He crossed our all the
    hymns in the Sword of the Lord hymnbook–Soul-Stirring
    Songs & Hymns–that were contemporary (written in the
    last one hundred years or so). Thankfully, my dad had
    moved us to a church across town some time before he
    became the pastor.

  26. @ play that fundy music
    I loved the Culotte song.
    I sang it to my wife, who was equally blessed!
    We call the type of culottes worn in this video,
    “Momma Jomma!” or “Mama JAMA,” if you prefer.

    1. My wife used to know a lesbian couple who called themselves the Pajama Mamas. They had a business sewing custom pajamas, and to advertise it they wore matching pajamas everywhere they went. They had many, many sets of them (times two, I guess, since they always matched each other).

  27. I almost went here. SOOOOO GLAD I DIDN’T!

    They preached against flirting, sinning (swimming) pools, texting, myspace (2005), hair gel, television, flat front pants, skinny jeans, converse, and wearing orange dress shirts… Among many other things.

    I got in trouble for walking down a VERY PUBLIC sidewalk with a dozen other people around with a girl because guys and girls are only allowed to be together in designated areas.

    And, I used hair gel… So I got made fun of by the college guys. I felt like I was being ganged up on by a group of super-nerds… Lol

    1. Converse? As in Chuck Taylor All Stars? I was wearing those before this silly little college was even started.
      At a ridiculously ruled Fundy High, no less. Of course, there were fewer options for sneakers in the mid-seventies, so we had to make up different sins.

  28. Big Gary, strange it is that you brought up lesbians. I was re-reading through the comments, thinking about the sadists and spankers who operate this school, taking great joy in physically abusing and psychologically controlling young adults, ridiculing them when they don’t run 10 miles, and I thought: These same administrators–evil people–doubtless rail on LGBT people and condemn them to hell. To quote John Lennon, “Strange days indeed.” If Fairhaven administrators represent Christians, count me among the lost. I’d prefer not to spend eternity with these fools.

  29. Crazy to think I spent 19 years of my life at this place…
    Funny story, they were taking pictures of the elementary and high school classes in session for a promotional brochure once. They pulled the only four African American students that were in the high school out of their various classes and put them all in one classroom with the rest of the white students, to make the Academy seem more diverse…

  30. I scanned this thread at lunch this morning about 1:15. The rock about finding God’s will left me thinking. It amazes me how mystical Fundies make God’s will out to be. It also annoys me somewhat to know I was them once, but that’s another post.

    Anyway, when I hear people discuss how hard it is to find God’s will I think, “No. Not really. Micah 6:8 is pretty succinct: He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness,and to walk humbly with your God?

    Of course, that kindness and humble stuff isn’t as easy as a list of “Holy Rules”.

    1. Love it! I always wonder why folks agonise so much after “god’s will”. It’s pretty damned obvious I’d have thought.

      Couple Micah 6:8 with a dose of Matt 9 (Hosea 6) “I desire mercy, not sacrifice”.

      That’s it really. No 45-minute sermon requried.

    2. For a second, I wondered how a rock can be “about” something. Then I remembered the video.

      Yep. If you want to carve something in stone, why not Micah 6:8 or Matthew 9:13?

      1. Yeah, B.G., it wasn’t the best choice of words. Wednesdays start my “weekend”, and after the long nights, I probably shouldn’t be allowed to post without adult supervision.

    3. hahaha… you mean my randomly placed boulder reference? I was not feeling well yesterday. It is truly unfortunate that many people in the IFB think Romans 12:2 is declaring a perfect will doctrine, which it isn’t.

      What about Romans 8:28? “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose” You don’t have to worry that somehow calamity will ensue because you chose God’s lesser will, He allows you freedom in personal matters and even when we do not choose wisely or out of ignorance perhaps He knows how to make it strengthen our Faith in Jesus.

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