162 thoughts on “Dire Warnings About Really Important Things”

  1. Quite a boring song. I’ve always hated that melody. That’s what I’d critique it for. Although the guitar sounds really nice. That (mid-west?) style of guitar playing sounds quite exotic/ foreign to my European ears.

    Anyways, it’s a pop concert, no? I don’t think the critic gets that.

    Does he do requests?

    1. Thanx for the clip, Phil, lovely, just lovely. ๐Ÿ™‚
      Miss Underwood is a talented singer, but to me, this is a prime example of truly spiritual music. And the carping critic would probably like this even less. ๐Ÿ™„

      1. Glad you liked it.
        Get yourself any of Tomas Vitoria’s works, by youtube, iTunes or amazonmp3.

        Some of the most amazing music ever written, if you ask me.

    2. Hey easy now, “How Great Thou Art” is high church music over here.

      Seriously, I’d be ecstatic if a church around here performed the song on that level. Usually it’s whatever’s trending on K-Love (Christian radio network). And often it’s performed in such a way that the congregation cannot follow along even if they were familiar with the words.

      1. It’s interesting to me that there seems to be a real heartache within wider christendom (small c) for some kind of recapturing of the artistic tradition which once the church was a world (or at least western world) leader.

        Sometime, maybe as monarchies were crashing to the floor in Europe, the churches seems to have lost their interest in (high) art.

        1. One can still sometimes find high(er) church traditional Protestant worship styles in the United States– in a liberal church.

          Conservative Protestants with traditional, liturgical worship are rare as hen’s teeth.

    3. Now that’s what I call worship music ๐Ÿ™‚ I grew up in a very musical family and developed a great appreciation for all kinds of music. When my kids are older and I have a few minutes of free time I’d like to sing with a group like this again.

    4. Oh my gosh, I LOOOOVE Victoria’s “O Magnum Mysterium.” It sounds like the angelic choir. But Liz is right…it’s way too Catholic,

      I love Gabrieli’s setting even more, but the musical cognoscenti apparently disagree with me. ๐Ÿ™

  2. Wow grasping at straws much? The song is fine. Carrie is fine. She, just like the rest of us is doing the best she can. So sorry it didn’t hold up to that condiscending jerks standards. He should try coming in on the side of love. For the greatest of these is love.

    1. One should especially spell words correctly when one is quoting another. He quoted Bob Jones Sr. on “apostacy.”

  3. This video triggers a lot of negative feelings for me. So now singers are responsible for whether or not people are appreciating their voices/talents or appreciating their spirituality?

    I guess that’s like women being responsible for men’s lust.

    I personally find it distracting when someone butchers a song. I suppose that’s the only spiritual way to enjoy hymns, though, amiright? Sort of like how women are supposed to dress in hideous potato-sack garments. Because if it’s not ugly, it’s not godly, haymen?

    I could go on, but I’ll spare you my verbosity.

    For now.

    1. You know PP, speaking of lust, I wonder if this person googled “godly music for my soul” or if he googled “hot celebrities” that landed him at this video. I’m sure it was while his wife and daughter were cleaning their church building.
      This is exactly the unholy, unloving, ungodly, self-righteous, hunter-of-eye-speck arrogance that reminds me of how wonderful things are now that we’re gone.

  4. He keeps calling this blues and country music. I am not a musical expert but those are really two different styles.

    Also, every single question he asked could only be answered by asking the individuals he was asking about.

    1. Enormously different styles, yeah! The only thing worse than a stupid overblown critic is a stupid overblown uninformed critic.

    2. Truth in commenting: I have not watched this clip.
      Blues is more than a style – it is a scale (technically a mode IIRC). So it’s POSSIBLE to have country music be blues as well, but I doubt he meant that.
      Further disclosure: for all I know, EVERYTHING coming out of Nashville uses the blues scale. I just play stuff, y’know? Give me the ink and a run-through.

      1. Yeah… blues has had a huge impact on American music.

        A lot of what’s called “country” music is of African-American origin. The banjo descends from a West African instrument. That’s one of the biggest reasons Fundamentalists are against modern music– it’s BLACK.

        1. Not trying to correct you here, but most of the racist Southern or Southern-wannabe preachers I know think the banjo was fashioned by God, and probably what David played to soothe the evil spirits around Saul. Of course, there are those who hate bluegrass, but in most Baptist Fundy circles, bluegrass in compliance with Fundy music standards (i.e., no drums) is the ultimate, Godly, camp meeting revival music. Pickin’ and grinnin’, folks!

        2. It seems curious that someone would approve of banjos but not drums, since a banjo consists of a drum with strings stretched across it.

          The truth is that the various “country” styles have many musical roots. The most important of them are English, African, and Celtic. But there is no more a purebred style of music than there is a pure race of humans.

        3. And here I thought the only musical instrument approved by GAWD His Own Self was a white grand piano. ๐Ÿ˜€

        4. The use of a drumhead on a banjo dates to maybe the 1850s-1870s. Resonator banjors date back to maybe 1930. Syncopated styles of playing are recorded as early as the 1920’s by black musicians.

          Former picker here.

        5. Now if you put it that way (a banjo being a stringed drum) to some preachers, they might change their minds about it. And I never said the standard was consistent, just convenient to their preference. In their eyes, the only music with African origin is rock and roll. Don’t try to confuse them with facts, it just makes them louder. ๐Ÿ˜†

    1. Whoever he is, he calls himself MrFundamental1611, he’s only hacked up two videos to critique, plus he’s a subscriber to jack hyles dot com. What a resume, give him his doctorate and publish his book right away!

  5. I regret to say at one time this is how I thought, or should I say how I was supposed to think. Being the spiritual music director I was, it was my job to determine if the singer was singing unto the Lord or wanted to just get up on the platform to be seen.

    It was so stressful! I’m so glad I’m out and have discovered what real true worship is, and feeling the love of the people rather than their judgement and criticism. A complete 180 from where I was.

    1. It is very stressful to be the judge of what should or should not be let into the music ministry of the church, especially in fundyland. I got sick of hurt feelings.It didn’t happen frequently, but I still have a memory of one man I think I ticked off and he, too, played the guitar. Others, we let by, but still judged them in our hearts, because, perhaps, they slid around on the pitches, used some ad lib and did not “respect the melody,” and you know that represents that there are not absolutes!

    2. When I think about what you just wrote, it strikes me how utterly anti-Kingdom and arrogant that mindset is. We are to judge motivations for performance? WE weigh the hearts and minds of our fellow believers? God forbid!

    3. Judging a person’s motives for performing music can be difficult. However, it shouldn’t be that hard to discern whether a performance tends to put undue focus on the performers themselves. In general, I think that this is an example of something that’s more performance than worship. Don’t get me wrong– I’ll stomp my feet if Willie sings “I’ll Fly Away” at a concert but I would _not_ call it worship. If I want to experience actual worship, I pretty much have to go to a Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox service. Fundagelicals blow chunks at this.

      1. But now you are judging and condemning worship that doesn’t take place in a Catholic or Eastern Orthodox fashion. Other worship styles may not work for you, but that doesn’t mean they’re not worship. I’ve been to both Catholic and Eastern Orthodox services, and they don’t feel anything like worship to me, but that doesn’t mean that *you* are not worshipping, either.

        1. No, I’m saying that music performed with the musicians front and center, on a stage, highlighted with spotlights, etc., is at least as much public spectacle as it is worship.

          It doesn’t take a degree from Berklee to know that.

    1. I agree. Especially the part where he asks whether they are saved people worshipping God or are just evil sinners. The Bible teaches that we are all evil sinners. So clearly, that fact alone does not preclude us from being allowed to worship God.

      1. Exactly! I can be a sinner, worship God, and appreciate a talented artist at the same time! By the way, I love many versions of this hymn, both modern and old style. This one is one of my favorites. However, music styles and tastes are subjective; it’s not a salvation issue if I disagree with someone else’s. God, in His infinite creativity, made us have different preferences.

  6. “Do you think this man is worshipping in Spirit and in truth?”

    I just checked my name-tag and it doesn’t read “God”, so MY opinion of somebody else’s worship really doesn’t matter.

    “Who art thou to judge another man’s servant?” If these people are not worshipping in Spirit and in true, I think God is fully capable of sorting that out.

    I could also ask a lot of questions about the difference between this and pastor worship, but I’ll spare you.

    1. Looking at Ms. Underwood’s face, she looks more worshipful than many soloists in church.

  7. John answered, โ€œMaster, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he does not follow with us.โ€ But Jesus said to him, โ€œDo not stop him, for the one who is not against you is for you.โ€

    1. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

    2. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,

    3. Excellent point, Don! But next time, I would encourage you to use the KJV translation ๐Ÿ˜‰

    4. Great point Don,
      You know, after time with the Lord, repenting of my many sins… there is NO WAY I could come out swinging against someone else this way. After I see His amazing grace and after I’ve pondered who I really am… a sinner saved by grace through faith, I find it impossible to judge others.
      That said, it seems logical to me that this self-appointed judge hasn’t looked inward at all.

      1. You know, I am having to recalibrate my own sense of Judgmentalism.

        If Kelly and Vince were doing harm to the Gospel or in some way cheapening it then I too would be agin’ this rendition. I try very hard these days to reserve my strongest words for those who do cheapen the gospel, or preach a false gospel. My personal crusades are against legalism, and for promoting the Sovereignty of God over all his creation.(my promotion of it doesn’t makes it so nor does anyone’s rejection of it make it not so)

        I can fellowship with just about anyone, even when I find I do not fully agree with them on all issues. I find it harder to fellowship with folks who cling to their legalism out of rote traditionalism or elevate mankind to coequal redemptor status. I am trying hard to make sure that I don’t come off as a bombastic hypocrite. (ok, I’ll cop to the bombastic charge …yeah, yeah, yeah… I know, I’m a hypocrite at times as well ๐Ÿ˜• ) But I am trying. ๐Ÿ˜

    5. Don, Check out Paul’s attitude to people proclaiming Christ differently (even in mockery to Paul) in Philippians 1:15-18. verse 18 “Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.”

      He didn’t care about their ‘worthiness’ or even their ‘heart’, he was preoccupied with the proclamation of Christ. We know doctrine matters to Paul, so he wasn’t giving that a pass, only that Christ is more important that Paul.

      And that seems to really be the issue in the critique, the country music crowd are unworthy to sing or even listen about Christ and God’s greatness.

  8. Also, I’m wondering. Has he gone to Carrie personally and talked to her about his concerns? Because if he hasn’t, he shouldn’t be saying this kind of stuff about her. Matthew 18 and all that.

    What bugs me the most is how these people ignore their own rules.

    1. Corban – see Mark 7

      Their added rule would be that because she is public with her singing, the rebuke can also be public. It’s very convenient.

      1. I’m not sure how the Corban rebuke figures into this. But I agree with the convenient reasoning. Almost a pilpul.

        1. Sorry. ๐Ÿ˜ณ My reference was meant to imply that man’s rules will get tacked onto what God says… Thus man’s rules will get elevated to just as holy in order to achieve this convenience.

  9. Zooming in on Wynona Judd’s chest while captioning, “There is a lot I could say about modesty here, but I will spare you.” I nearly choked on my granola from laughing. ๐Ÿ˜†

    1. Zooming in on a woman’s chest? I was going to make a remark about how that doesn’t seem particularly appropriate and/or Christian to focus on that part of the female body, but then I remembered that to these people, men are clearly incapable of resisting we wimmenz feminine wiles. Feminine wiles like wearing shirts other than potato sacks.

      Clearly the problem is not that he’s focusing on her chest. Clearly the problem is that she HAS a chest.

      (On a side note, anybody know a good place where I can pick up some more feminine wiles? I’m fresh out.)

    2. The modesty comments just cracked me up. What he was trying to say was, “tsk tsk” but in reality was: “nice gams!” and “Hey look, boobies!!”

      1. Not to mention, when you have a rack like Wynona, you look like you’re trying to smuggle puppies or large fruits under any shirt that comes to the neck. And because of the girls’ size, v-necks tend to show lot more than just a hint of cleavage.

        (I speak from experience, lest anyone think I’m mocking the woman. I haven’t had anyone give me the modesty speech to my face, but I have had dirty/disgusted looks shot towards me. Somehow, those never make it to my face, either.) ๐Ÿ˜‰

        1. Having been doubly blessed in the “rack” department I can tell you no matter how you dress there is no hiding the “girls”.

          What a complete a$$!

          Can I just say that in my world, only good looking men should wear kilts and then only on blustery days. ๐Ÿ˜‰ .

        2. A gal that used to sing in our group years ago was a “large girl” and had quite a “rack.” We were packing up after our gig at a fundy church putting away instruments, sound equipment and such. One of the women in the church had the gall to slap her hand against this gal’s chest when she was bending over to pick something up and read her the riot act about her neckline.

        3. If they were guided by love, anyone who was offended could have looked away. But if they were guided by legalism, they seek to SHAME others and to publicly call them out for any perceived shortcomings.

          How did your group member respond?

        4. It’s been observed before that the “standards” that purport to be rules about women’s dress are really about women’s bodies. Any women with a shape that modest clothing can’t hide is automatically a lesser being.

        5. @ Pastor’s Wife, the incident where the woman slapped her hand on my friend’s chest and scolded her for showing cleavage when she leaned over was the final incident of a weekend of insults and bad form at this hair brained church! I really don’t remember how she responded to this woman; we were just glad to pack up and hit the road! When we first arrived on Saturday we found a number of church members on hand about the property. We gals were wearing pants. I was crawling in and out of the back of my Mazda pickup truck hauling out sound equipment, catering equipment, instruments and luggage. Picture that. A short time later a woman came to us and said, “We have a number of teenage girls here who are wondering if you all are saved because you are wearing pants.” I am usually the one to be quiet and retiring. Not this time. I didn’t come unglued on her, but I demanded to be taken to the pastor. I was shown into his study along with the aforementioned friend who usually was the speaker for the group. I told the pastor what had been said. I informed him that we were indeed saved, except for my friend’s mother and aunt who were visiting and had come along with us. I said the unkind comment didn’t do a great deal for the testimony of Christ to these ladies. I informed him that I was crawling in and out of the back of my truck while a knot of men stood around and watched, and what would that have been like had I been in a skirt? I told him we didn’t intend to be an offense and we would be glad to pack up and go home. He said no, no, please don’t leave. We stayed and carried through with our obligations for the weekend. I wish we’d have left. What a mess these people were! I look back with some satisfaction in knowing that we performed a couple of songs by the Imperials (accompanied by piano) and people came to us and said how much they liked those songs and their message. Had they known the source of those songs…! Oh my

    3. He makes the same comment about Carrie’s “modesty.” Honestly, I think her outfit is ridiculously modest, all things considered. I would shudder to parade around under zillion-degree spotlights wearing LONG SLEVES!!

      1. Oops…I thought his reference to immodesty was the lack of a tie on Vince.

  10. My commentary on the commentary:

    1. Yes, I’ve seen people applauded when they get to the stage at a “worship service” (Think Jack Hyles/Schaap)

    2. People are known to say “We love you preacher etc…” and they are most certainly at church to worship Jesus. At least I would hope so.

    3.They are clapping because she has a great voice, and some may be clapping because God is great. I cannot tell the motives of those in the audience and the inventor of the video cannot either.

    4.Is the man worshipping Jesus in Spirit and in Truth? Honestly, I’m not sure some Fundamental Baptists are when they go to church, and we, again, cannot judge the motives or intentions of others when they worship.

    5.There is plenty I can say about modesty…? Me too. Your subjective standard of modesty is just that…subjective.

    6. Again, this author tries to judge motives in the audience, insinuating that the blues music being played is evoking the emotional response. Really? Is blues music bad? Some Fundamental Baptists have the Rochester’s in their church, and they are most decidedly “Blues.”

    7.I can’t get over how many times this author poses hypothetical questions and expects it to be a commentary on someone’s motives. I’ll refrain from commenting further on this topic…

    8.Hmmmmm See #7 again.

    9.See #7

    10. See #7

    11.He that is spiritual judges all things…The context of this verse is regarding learning spiritual wisdom and spiritual things from God. The natural man cannot understand them, the spiritual man can evaluate it and comprehend it. This passage of Scripture has nothing to do with evaluating someone’s music or modesty standards.

    12.The music industry wants to hear songs about drugs, alcohol and Jesus…Should we be surprised when a secular medium as a whole decides to appeal to a secular audience? It still doesn’t diminish the individual value of the faith of a particular artist.

    13.Vince and Carrie are not interested…How does this author know their intentions? See #7

    14.Carrie Underwood on Faith: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/04/08/carrie-underwood-faith-reason-success/

    Clearly she proclaims more faith than some people in the pews of a Fundamental Baptist Church. As for Vince’s faith, I cannot comment. I can’t find anything immediately.

    15. Instruments in the hands of businessmen looking to make a buck? Like some Pastor’s who are hounding people for money every chance they get? Using manipulation tactics to encourage others to contribute to God’s work? Like that?

    1. Vince Gill is married to Amy Grant, although some may see that as further proof of his sinner status.

  11. “Most people who have seen this video think in their minds: … ‘These people must really love the Lord. What great Christians!'”

    Really? Most people think that? I would say rather only very naive people would think that. Most people I know realize that these are performers and that they’re singing something their audience would like.

    “The Lord is not within a 100,000 miles of a bunch of openly wicked Country music stars singing the praises of Jesus Christ.”

    I would hesitate to put ANY limits on God or where He chooses to be. Paul said, “He be not far from any one of us” (Acts 17:27).

    1. โ€œMost people who have seen this video think in their minds: โ€ฆ โ€˜These people must really love the Lord. What great Christians!โ€™โ€

      I suspect most people would see that video and have their opinions of Christianity confirmed: We’re just a bunch of self-righteous, judgment jerks.

      And that’s just sad.

    2. โ€œMost people who have seen this video think in their minds: โ€ฆ โ€˜These people must really love the Lord. What great Christians!โ€™โ€

      Actually, I was thinking, “That cannot be Vince Gill…..dang I’m getting old.”

    3. 100,000 miles?? In the spirit of fundy literalism, the Lord will not be found anywhere on earth. You would have to travel about half way to the moon to get that far out.

  12. Did he just write “Is this man worshiping in Spirit and in truth?” when it showed a close up of a man?

    Who does he think he is to ask that? Who is he to question another man’s heart? That is so rude and insulting and invasive.

    It illustrates the uncharitable spirit that chafed me when I was a fundamentalist; I would hear pastors and others make unkind assumptions about others and I would think, “This is not the spirit of Christ. This is not a love that hopeth all things.”

    1. That uncharitable spirit is one of the reasons I left.

      Statements like, “those Christian rock artist, with their long hair, they don’t really love Jesus.”

      Oh, I’m sorry, I must have misunderstood, I thought you were a pastor.
      You are? I thought maybe you were a mind reader…
      So, being a pastor, how the do you know for sure if they love Jesus?
      Oh wait, you don’t. And Jesus loves them just as much as you

      Go love people already – enough mean spirited, self righteous attitudes.

    2. โ€œIs this man worshiping in Spirit and in truth?โ€

      My first thought: “How the flip should I know?”

      I’m too busy making sure that *I’m* worshipping in spirit and truth to butt into anyone else’s motives.

  13. He is right when he said, “Even though they are talented musicians and are singing a famous hymn it does not mean that they love Jesus Christ and it does not mean that they are born again people.” Of course that’s true. But that gives him no right to say, “Vince Gill and Carrie Underwood are in no way interested in bringing glory to God.” How does he presume to know this? He doesn’t know their hearts. Just because he doesn’t like their lifestyle doesn’t mean that he can make judgments on their innermost longings or desires.

    This statement alone proves that he is not doing what he says he is doing, that is “telling the truth.” No, you cannot make statements like the second one above and then claim to be telling the truth. You CANNOT know another person’s heart.

    1. Right on, PW. He presumes a lot. Just like I presumed a lot when I was under the fundy spell. I hope for his sake he gets loose of this bondage of being the Christian critic and enjoys life a whole lot more, when he realizes he isn’t here to judge the hearts of others.

  14. I think maybe we need to understand his understanding of what it means to “worship in spirit and in truth.” Easy phrase to toss around, but the meaning may be tough to define exactly.

    1. I used to consider “worship” something one did only Sunday mornings during the singing portion of services. As I’ve studied (including the story about Jesus meeting the woman at the well), I’ve come to realize that worship is whatever we adore, and that includes Monday through Saturday too. An act of worship could be treating a stranger kindly or whispering a prayer of thanks to God in the middle of the day or feeling a nudge right before uttering that little white lie and deciding to tell the truth. Worship is something we do all day. Worshipping in spirit and truth, I think, is worshipping without false motives. I’m convinced that only God can tell whether we have true or false motives.

  15. It’s interesting to me that people who claim to want the whole world reached for Christ are the same people that cry foul when the “world” seems to be praising Him. My goodness, Carrie Underwood sure appeared to be worshiping God, so why can’t we just chill out. Just because Boobs McGee is in the audience doesn’t mean that the singers aren’t sincere. Just think if people judged a pastor on the number of women in the congregation that were wearing PANTS! ๐Ÿ‘ฟ

    1. He’s probably turned on by her and has to use religion to deny it (the base sexual attraction).

      1. After glancing at his other video attacking Carrie Underwood, I think you’re right. He just wants an excuse to post sexy videos of her and feel pious about doing so.

  16. The fact that he starts his comments with a quote from a declared racist who preached that racial segregation was biblical (Bob Jones, Sr.) is enough to disavow any additional commentary. Anyone who gives credence to someone whose university banned african-american students until the government forced them to accept them, who had a known KKK chapter president on its board and named a dormitory hall after him (Bibb Graves) has no credibility..

  17. He asks if the people clapping are truly worshiping and glorifying God OR are they wicked sinners praising Carrie Underwood’s singing.

    In response to the question:

    I can’t answer for them; however, I am a wicked sinner who wishes to glorify God and worship him.

    1. Why does it matter?
      If they like music, and happen to hear a spiritual message, or if they listen for a spiritual message, and happen to hear some good music, it’s win/win either way.

      1. Nonsense, you know it does not work that way in Fundistan. You either are ready and thirsting for the LAWD’s words, whether spoken from the Man O’Gid His Own Self, or sung by some sweet moon-faced female who couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket. Remember, only if it sounds/looks terrible can it be considered Worthy Christian Music.

        1. Oop, didn’t finish, George cut me off. But you’re either listening ONLY to the Word O’GAWD and ONLY that; or else you’re just a wicked sinner committing idolatry by applauding a mere singer. And that’s almost as bad as dancing. ๐Ÿ™„

        2. That’s kind of what I figured. No matter if it’s a hymn, it isn’t Christian unless it’s:

          Sung (slightly off key) IN CHURCH
          Sung by someone in a long dress/suit
          (depending on the gender of the singer)
          Accompanied by a “praise band”
          Accorded reverent, silent, motionless attention
          by an audience of the Saved

          Otherwise, it doesn’t count, and is almost certainly sinful.


  18. Damned if you do!!!!
    Damned if you don’t?!?

    This critic is damning Carrie for proclaiming her faith in the arena by which she has been able to use her talents. On the other hand, I’m sure he would also be criticizing her if she never proclaimed her faith in her “work place!”

    How many of us in our “work place” have similarly dared to proclaim our faith?

    This is the way of life that Fundies live… What a miserable existence!

    Listening to Carrie tugged at emotions. Her voice and that song may have had some spiritual effects or even triggered some thought of some individuals’ relationship with God. One never knows the power of truth!

    While I do not follow Carrie’s life or lifestyle, I do say that in this moment displayed, she did an amazing job in her performance of “How Great Thou Art” and in fact, I have yet to see a better performance in all the years that I have attended church.

    Live, Love, Laugh…. SING! ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

  19. Honestly, that hymn is not one of my favorites, and it’s not sung especially well here (Carrie Underwood goes off pitch whenever she launches into one of the high, loud parts).

    But who am I to judge what Carrie Underwood and Vince Gill were thinking at the time? What does the piety or lack of it in the audience members have to do with anything?
    Are only flawless people allowed to sing songs of praise? Are only the pure in heart allowed to hear them?

    Nay, I say that the church is for the lost, the stumbling, and the misbegotten, not for those who have no need of God’s grace.

    Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! (Psalm 150:6)
    There’s no clause there about being unequivocally worthy before you open your mouth.

    1. Yes. It can be criticized artistically for the things you mentioned above, Carrie being off-pitch, etc. I’m pretty tone-deaf so I can’t really judge such things.

      Is it a style appropriate for church? I’d say not… I think modern Fundagelicals do a lot of things in bad form.


      The motivations of the singers are not knowable from a single Youtube video. Nor can we know if a specific individual who watches and listens to it is able to have a spiritually uplifting and edifying experience from it.

  20. American Fundamentalism has been hijacked by Moralists. They cannot tell the difference between Gospel and Moralism anymore. To them the old paths are 1950’s culture. That is what they are fighting for…

    1. Hijacked? You’re acting like moralists weren’t there from the very beginning.

  21. Someone needs to get me an organ and a fiddle (no drums though) Here’s a “Worship” song about my journey:

    Took my family away from my fundy church home
    Had dreams about the west and started to roam
    Six long months on a dust covered trail
    They say heavens at the end but so far its been hell

    And thereโ€™s fire on the mountain
    Bob Jones lost his hair
    Gold in them hills and its waiting for me there

    We were soul winning and door knockinโ€™ from 5 โ€™til 5
    Selling everything we had just to stay alive
    Kids on the hay ride took it a bit too far
    Sinning was the biggest thrill Lord, Satan was the star

    And thereโ€™s fire on the fountain
    Bob Jones lost his hair
    Gold in them hills and its waiting for me there

    Girls in pants was the evening treat
    Church tracks and pamphlets filled the streets
    Men were shot down for the sake of fun
    Or just to hear the noise of Jim Vineyardโ€™s gun

    And thereโ€™s fire on the mountain
    Bob Jones lost his hair
    Gold in them hills and its waiting for me there

    Now my widow she weeps by my grave
    Her ladies class she never forgave
    Shot down in cold blood by a pastor that carried fame
    All because we mention Jack Schaapโ€™s name

    And thereโ€™s fire on the mountain
    Bob Jones lost his hair
    Gold in them hills and its waiting for me there

    Fire on the mountain
    Bob Jones lost his hair
    Gold in them hills and its waiting for me there

    Waiting for me there

      1. I’m looking to make an IFB song once a month pertaining to the topic Darrell posted.

        This female friend I have on facebook, she lists sevral different singing groups on facebook as her favorites. Those singing groups have more “likes” than the Doobie Brothers!

  22. “Oh, what a wonder song.”

    What a “wonder”-ly ignorant video. In conversations like this with fundies where every response tends to be “You really think…?” “You mean to tell me…?” “You have the audacity to say that our precious, pure, sweet, holy Lord would…?” I find it best just to answer a confident “Yes” to all of the above. Left with only subjective evidence to the contrary, they simply respond, “Well you must be as deceived as they are then.” Yep, that’s it.

  23. So, he’s saying that this hymn isn’t a valid act of worship if the performers aren’t saved. Does this mean we could all sing heavy metal songs etc with impunity if we don’ t mean it? All together now ‘Highway to….’

    1. I have no idea what the phrase “agrees with gay marriage” means. Assuming it means she supports expanding the legal right for gays to marry civilly, horay for her.

    2. And so?

      If two adults of sound mind without preemptive obligations can sign a contract that legally binds them as one economic unit and confers certain responsibilities regarding dependent care and end-of-life decisions, then this says what, exactly, about a country singer’s relationship with Christ?

      Or is this about those lies from the pulpit about government-enforced shotgun weddings in church, or whatever?

  24. This video conjures up alot of emotions for me. When I was in fundy land, it was so incredibly distracting to listen to someone sing off key, or to see the look of terror and nervousness on their face when they would get up to sing. A standard of excellence is not required in a lot of fundy churches. Because it is “done for The Lord”, it doesn’t have to be well done or even heartfelt. And don’t tell me for one minute that people in church don’t ever sing for their own glory. If you get asked to sing in church, then that means you have made the spiritual cut and you are godly enough to be seen by the whole church. It isn’t worship most of the time. It is something on a cue card that fills space…. This guy just needed a soap box to stand on. A soap box that, once on it, he feels soo much better about himself. Sad thing is, when he gets to Heaven, he is going to be very surprised by who is there and who isn’t. Rant done:)

    1. “Y’all pray for us we ain’t practiced much” ๐Ÿ˜†

      Sometimes the “special” musicians in little churches are people who life has beaten down. I think the pastors let them feel special once in a while as an act of mercy. I’m a lot more tolerant and appreciative of folk religion now than maybe I was a few years ago.

      That being said, a lot of “special music” is nothing but showboating. Whatever the motivation, calling it “worship” is a stretch.

    2. I never understood why pastors so often lambasted contemporary Christian performers for wanting attention and yet never seemed to recognize that that same human desire was often seen in our IFB churches too, both by the singers AND the speakers sometimes!

      1. Because they don’t think. They just repeat arguments they heard someone else make. Their sermons don’t come from self-reflection or study of the sacred text, systematic theology, or church history. They’re just aping somebody else who is probably aping someone else. You have to move a few degrees of relationship out to encounter a real, actual intellectual or artist.

        There are plenty of valid criticisms of CCM. Most apply equally to the things that IFBers do.

        1. Or to put it another way: their primary and probably only criteria for adopting a belief is whether or not it suits their purposes. Understanding it isn’t necessary. Applying it in one’s own life isn’t necessary.

    3. As music director in a fundie church I tried to instill excellence in the music program. I tried to introduce the theme, “Building A Tradition of Excellence”. It was fought, criticized, beat down, chopped up, tared, feathered, and churched out the front door.

      “Amen, well we didn’t practice much but we just want to be a blessing to ya’ll tonight.”

  25. Wow, this guy really has a thing for criticizing Carrie Underwood. Both his youtube videos are about her. That aside, I think he has hit a treasure trove of “sermon” material. Just think of all the performers who have recorded/ performed Amazing Grace and other notable hymns. Where are his videos criticizing opera singers, Mormon Tabernacle Choir and the Scottish bagpipe dudes lack of spirituality? Fundy tactics like this are massive wastes of time, His time would be far better served challenging Christians about feasting their souls on trashy song content (be it Carrie Underwood, Sugarland (the dude with the hat in the crowd), Vince Gill, Maroon 5, Mariah Carey, Beyonce or any other famous performer) instead of singling out one artist and listening to her trashiest songs so you can criticize her to your youtube congregation. The danger also is those listening to the criticism but like something just as trashy other than Carrie Underwood could say “whew, he didn’t mention my favorite singer”. Also, much is made about a famous singer drawing attention to themselves when performing gospel music and yet fundies think it’s fantastic when talented church musicians sing with vibrato overload (i.e the Bob Jones special music during chapel/ church).

  26. If someone gave this EXACT SAME VOCAL PERFORMANCE in a fundy church or on a fundy CD, it would be assumed to be all about “glorifying God” and would be deemed to be perfectly acceptable. (I said “vocal” because I think some, but not all, fundy churches would probably not care for the instrumentals here.)

    Interesting how if it makes money for man, it’s evil, but if it makes money for the managawd, it’s A-OK.

    1. It depends on what circle of Fundamentalism you’re talking about. It might give a BoJos the cramps. But a lot of other IFBers would hoot and holler amen. Carrie might need to put on a dress a little less shiny, but otherwise, yeah.

      1. Well, as noted above, BJU enthusiastically takes part in the racist-based criticism of modern popular American music styles. Ironic that a bastion of Old Southern thinking has so emphatically rejected the music of the South. (Because, regardless of its origins, country music is primarily the music of WHITE SOUTHERN AMERICA today.)

  27. He missed the whole point of the video, which is that Vince Gill knows better than to oversing and overplay anything that’s handed to him. That solo was a far more musical presentation of the melody than Carrie’s forced tone and painful expressions could ever create.

    Also, daymn! Vince has some nice legs!

    1. I am sure by now that many of you have seen the video of Carrie Underwood and Vince Gill singing the Humn: “How Great Thou Art.”

      >>> Actually I had no idea this even existed until lunchtime today when I checked out SFL <<<

  28. Even if this is “a group of people that love The Lord, that have a heart of worship and want to bring glory to God”, they’re still a bunch of “wicked sinners,” because that is the natural state of us all, regardless of the outward trimmings–Mr. KJ 1611 included! :mrgreen:

  29. If the point he wanted to make were that Christian lyrics don’t sanctify a performance he could have picked a much better example. I’ve seen David Allen Coe sing gospel songs in a bar full of really rough and high intoxicated rednecks. Vince Gill and Carrie Underwood are about as tame as it gets. Maybe that’s his point, he thinks they’re subtly infiltrating the church. Or maybe he just has the hots for Carrie Underwood.

  30. Well I’ll take the charismatic “worship” on TBN, especially during Praise A Thon week over this.

    I’m still waiting on Fundamentalists to respond to Paul Crouch and The PTL Club and start a 24 hour IFB network and have their own version of the PTL Club featuring guest singers, preachers, and “celebrities”.

    1. I’ll watch TBN only if Jan Big Pink Hair Crouch is doing one of her famous crying jags. That woman sure knows how to wring every last ounce of woe from her tears. ๐Ÿ˜†

  31. Can’t this man be more like the apostle Paul? He said that he was glad that Christ’s name was proclaimed, regardless of the motive. I think about that passage sometimes when I reflect back to my fundy days. I can’t remember those preachers spending much time on that thought.

    1. Now THAT was a travesty of a religious hymn.
      Stylistically, it was a wreck, but technically speaking, she did hit more of the notes than Carrie Underwood did.

      In any case, I remain convinced that the cause of Christianity can survive this, too.

  32. Seldom have I seen that much emotion in a solo. In church, folks singing solos look like someone stuck a hot poker up their bum before the got up to sing.

  33. I like some country musicians, but personally, this performance wasn’t for me. Not a fan of that kind of guitar playing and especially the way Carrie ended the song. But really, does this guy think that NO ONE was moved by what was sung? Does it never occur to them that the same could apply to their style of music and their singers? I mean that they are only moved by the voice and the music of their preferred IFB singers/songs. Works both ways if you ask me.

    I just heard my former pastor’s voice in my head, “Well you need to repent brother! I’m trying to deal with your heart here.” Ugh….

    1. Whorish: I’ll take biblical adjectives for a thousand, Alex – OOPS Double Jeopardy

  34. Fundies deconstructing music videos or the works of any one else deemed “unfit” by them? Totally okay, “loving”, “speaking the truth.”

    Anyone else deconstructing a fundy sermon/teaching in the exact same way? HOW DARE YOU!! You’re just an ungodly heathen/liberal! And even if you CAN prove that what he said was 100% wrong, you need to give him the benefit of the doubt that his motives were pure! Stop publicly calling it out since you’re only hurting the cause of Christ!

  35. Oh, how the self-righteous, hyper-critical, and ultra-judgmental rage!

    Therefore I will give thanks to You, O LORD, among the Gentiles (heathern), And sing praises to Your name. (Psalms 18:49)

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