Friday Challenge: Spot The Anti-Christ

Presidential election years usually give rise to increased speculation in fundamentalist circles about whom the anti-Christ (and beast and false-prophet) may be. The challenge today is to give your best guess from the current cast of politicians, celebrities, and strange people who live on your street.

Extra points are awarded if you can come up with an entire sermon outline that “proves” this person is the almost definitely the Man (or Woman) of Sin.

147 thoughts on “Friday Challenge: Spot The Anti-Christ”

  1. There’s this guy they call Darrell. Some Fundies think he’s the Antichrist.

    1. JJJ, even *I* got fingered as The Antichrist once long ago. When all you have is an End Time Prophecy hammer…

  2. Second!

    Also, remember for the game: The more likable the person is, the more likely it is that he or she is the antichrist.

        1. “Everybody get out and vote for Gore,
          Everybody get out and vote for Gore,
          Vote early and often and then vote some more,
          Everybody get out and vote for Gore…”
          — filksong going around during Indecision 2000

          (NOT helped by Gore naming Daley of Chicago as the guy in charge of investigating the Florida recount for the Dems. Daley of Chicago…)

  3. I remember hearing all through my youth that the anticrhist would be a 33 year old male, half Jew.

    As much as I am not thrilled with Obama, I am not ready to accuse him of being half Jewish. πŸ˜€

    1. What does that mean? It reads as if you are implying that being of Jewish descent is something negative.

    2. Accuse him of being half-Jewish?

      You say that like it’s a bad thing.

      <—half Jewish

      1. Not at all, sorry for misleading statement. I was thinking along the lines of so many accusations leveled against him already.
        Didn’t mean to disparage Jewish folk. Wasn’t my intent. I also don’t think I can blame George for any of this unfortunately.

  4. Since the anti-Christ is supposed to fool the world — including most Christians — into believing he is Christ, wouldn’t that mean anyone widely suspected of being the anti-Christ is, by definition, not? Wouldn’t the real anti-Christ have to be someone most Christians trust and revere? (The way I see it, since most people are familiar with Revelation, at least in broad outline, and thus are looking for the story to play out, there must be, in essence, a “false anti-Christ”, someone who seems fulfill the role, then the REAL anti-Christ, who appears to fulfill the role of the true Christ returning, will appear. There would have to be false versions of the entire story arc of Revelation, then, only when that has played out, will the true prophesied events occur. It’s like going to a movie where someone’s told you there’s going to be a twist ending. You keep waiting for the twist, then one happens, and you say, “Ah, OK, that was the twist.” Then, when you’re relaxed, the REAL twist comes.)

    1. If the anti-christ is in fact a person, the scriptures do seem to indicate that he will be (or at least appear to be) Pro-Christian and Pro-Israel.

      1. You know, when I was a kid, my dad told me that Henry Kissinger was the Anti-Christ. I’m never sure what to think about that, because my dad is… Dad has genuine mental-health issues. So I’ve never been sure what he genuinely believes, and what is just the lack of medication talking. And even when he’s lucid he’s not necessarily thinking things through.

        One of the last actually conversations I had with my dad, he went off about President Obama. Mostly I just ignored the stuff Dad said about politics- I haven’t agreed with him on that for at least 20 years, probably more. But this time he said something like “What, shouldn’t I contend against the enemy of my soul?” I sat bolt upright and said “Dad, President Obama is not the ‘enemy of your soul’. He’s a hapa-haole boy from Honolulu, and he’s doing the best he can. The ‘Enemy of your soul’ is Satan, and I guarantee you that he is not the skinny guy with the weird name, however you feel about the President. Argue about his policies if you must, and do so with reason. But don’t be ridiculous.”

        According to my step-mother, dad was “just in a bad cycle”. May well have been. He went from that to within a week or two saying some very foul things about my mother, my sister, myself, ugly things about one of my brothers, and very messily and publicly coming unspooled on me, in front of 350 of my friends, on my Facebook page. I sat back, pulled up all of my siblings on IM (I’m the oldest) and said “I’m fortysomething years old, and I have decided that I don’t have to take this anymore.” To which their replies were basically “Took you long enough!” So with my siblings at my back, I very carefully told Dad that his behavior was not appropriate and that our relationship was over. I unfriended him and blocked him. I sent the same terse message via email, then blocked him there too. I dropped my stepmother a note and told her that I did not wish further contact with Dad, but I would like to hear from her now and then, and please let me know if something happened. Then I went page to my Page told everyone that I was sorry they had to see that, but my dad would not be bothering them any more. Cue the 350 “That was your DAD?!?” posts. Phil said he wondered why I was letting that jerk be so nasty without slapping him down…

        So with this sort of stuff going on in my life, I have very, VERY little tolerance for hyperbole on the subject.

        1. I might have done it years ago, but I was the last one. The first of my brothers had a very ugly rupture with Dad in… ’93 I think. Next brother quietly slipped off and quite returning phone calls. My sister had contact off and on until about 3 or so years ago, when Dad testified (read: LIED) on behalf of her ex-husband in the custody dispute. When I told her I was still in contact with our step-mom, she said “Tell me when the bastard’s kacked it; I’ll do a little dance.” I really feel a lot of responsibility, and I’ve always been the kid that could be manipulated with guilt. He knows I have grandkids now, he’s seen the pictures through his wife’s FB account. I have to keep reminding myself of the decades of physical and emotional abuse, and that I have a right to be free of it. Do not reconnect…

          We can all joke about the Anti-Christ, and it’s funny and more than a little cathartic. But you know what? We hardly need an actual Anti-Christ. We have them with us, around us, every day. What could be more ‘anti’Christ than hatred? Or cruelty? What would be less like Jesus than turning aside when you see someone that needs protection or help? I don’t know how many times *church people* turned a blind eye when one of us kids turned up at church with bruises. My sister ran away five times- took that, grown siblings, and some extraordinary circumstances to get the attention of the authorities. Dad slammed her against the wall of the church in front of witnesses. No one said anything. Not one. She’s an atheist now.


          There’s your anti-Christ.

    2. BTDT, Liutgard, except my story is not quite that dramatic, and since I’m the scapegoat in my family I’m the only one who has left–all of my sibs are still in the family system. But yeah, I agree about the “anti-christ” being here and all around us. Kind of how I feel about hell. I’m pretty sure I’ve already been there and back, right here on earth. I don’t really believe in a hell-after-death anymore.

  5. For a long time I held out for Bill Gates being the Antichrist, richest man in the world and yet he still looks like a nerd, who would suspect the likes of him? πŸ˜› Also have heard a lengthy argument insisting it’s Prince Charles, but then, the British Royal Family is actually alien-blooded reptiles in human disguise. πŸ™„ I’m not a fan of Obama, but he’s too interesting to be the Spawn of Satan.
    For a fun and in depth look at the End Times, including an Antichrist you could root for, 😎 check out the World’s Worst Books, aka the Left Behind series, on (link) which is updated every Friday.

    1. Hey, I resemble that remark πŸ˜€

      I agree, one of the most cringe-worthy depictions of the End Times, even if you believe the events of The Revelation will play out in real life (I don’t, FTR).

      That’s why I Left It Behind.

    2. That website’s series on the LB books is really good. Highly recommend.

      If you are just getting started it could take years to catch up though, be warned.

      1. The Saturday through Thursday posts on other topics are interesting,too. Don’t forget to read the comments!

    3. Also have heard a lengthy argument insisting it’s Prince Charles, but then, the British Royal Family is actually alien-blooded reptiles in human disguise.

      Ah, a David Icke fanboy. Presumably outside of Art Bell’s open phone lines at 3 Ayem.

      1. Or if you’re a Doctor Who fan, the British Royal Family has a wee bit o’ lycanthropy, via Victoria. (Don’t remember the name of the episode, but the Doctor was #10, and Rose spent the whole time trying to bait Vic into saying “We are not amused”. :mrgreen: )

  6. Fundies LOVE the end of the world, the coming of the saviour, the final hours of the doomed earth and God’s creation at its end.

    …so why are they upset at a sign from a person they perceive to be the antichrist (who, I might add, sits right of centre on the political spectrum)?

    Fundies, you confuse me.

  7. I also believe that there are actually 32 AntiChrists…each one is the DH for their respective American League Baseball Team

    1. There are only 14 American League teams. There will be 15 next year with the Astros switching leagues.

      1. Bud Selig is the Antichrist for having compelled the new owner of the Astros to move Houston to the AL.

  8. I think the only reason Fundies are really looking forward to the end of the world is so they can turn to the non-Fundies around them and give them that self-satisfied smirk that says “Hahahaha…I was right…burn in hell, bitches!” before they are taken up.

    1. Not after that meltdown on tv the other night. He’ll be lucky if they let him have the keys to the Caddy, much less run the world for seven years. Or is it 3 1/2? Is Rover Pre-, Mid-, or Post-?

  9. Tim Tebow.
    – Seriously are there any questions? How many of you have seen the photo with him posing as if he were hanging on a cross? Not only will this man impersonate God, but he impersonates God at the very moment of our redemption. He claims to be the Messiah by this act.
    – Many people are even getting the silhouette of his famous “Tebowing” pose, on their clothing. A pose that is now trademarked. This is obviously the mark of the beast and very soon will be required for buying and selling. I’m sure there are even people getting it tattooed on themselves.

  10. President Obama gets called a lot of things by Fundies & the Religious Right, but you know what descriptor they miss? Gracious.

    Seriously. The man gets bigoted insults leveled at him all the time that are completely unrelated to his politics, and not once has he snapped and gone into a self-defensive tirade.

    Then again, anything the President said to defend himself would be countered with, “Lalalalalalala, I can’t hear you, Antichrist.” πŸ™„

    1. Thank you for pointing this out about President Obama. I was adamantly against him in 2008, but watched him closely through his first term. He won me over with his temperate demeanor and calm spirit. His graciousness had a lot to do with that.

      Incidentally, it was hard for me to see him as a human being for a long time because I was trapped in the cult of conservative talk radio. I’ve thought about doing a website for recovering talk radio acolytes…

      1. Oh, you should! I am a former Limbaugh Ditto-Head. 😯 I still can get overly invested in talk radio, except now, I’m yelling back at Rush instead of constantly agreeing with him.

      2. I don’t know about “gracious”, but the man DOES have extremely-good self-control. It may be that there’s a lot under the surface and if he didn’t keep strong self-control he’d explode.

        And he was a law professor for a time, which probably requires a dispassionate demeanor. In that case, it might be more professionalism than anything else.

        1. Hey Liutgard…when you vomited this up on the board did you bother reading it??? Here is the QUOTE from YOUR source!
          “His formal title was “senior lecturer,” but the University of Chicago Law School says he “served as a professor” and was “regarded as” a professor.” He was NOT an actual professor. A professor in the sense that he self aggrandized would actually be on faculty and have a class schedule. A “guest lecturer” shows up once or twice in a semester and talks about a topic he is expert in. probably how to incite crowds, and staple posters on telephone poles. You refer to ANY instructor in a college classroom as “professor”. Unless they have a Doctorate

        2. I did read it. And you apparently are refusing to read plain English. The University says he taught classes.

          And FYI, and adjunct is a professor. They simply have no long-term contract or tenure.

          And for what it’s worth, I find your response to me to be rude and abusive. I have been careful to be polite and try to be as factual as I can. If you don’t like my political leanings, that is your right. But verbally abusing me is out of line.

        3. Perhaps you could show me where I was “abusive” having only refered to your information as something you “vomited up on the board” and ASKING if you read it. If you want to be intentionally ignorant go ahead. But to do so and then feign indignation and some sort of “abuse” is typical of anyone not willing to be questioned on a statement. “how dare you prove that I’m wrong! That’s abusive!” That’s factual debate is what it is.

        4. All right, folks. In the interest of civility and readability I’d invite you to move this conversation over to the forums where you have the option of putting each other on “ignore.”

          I’d also note that we can talk about this without needing to resort to personal invective or CAPSLOCK. Word to the wise.

    2. I was wondering if you could perhaps cite one of these unfounded bigoted insults. Because all I’ve ever heard from anyone who Obama would actually HEAR were fact based, proven charges leveled by people who see him for the monster he is. If you mean the shirtless guy drunk in the back of a police cruiser on the last COPS episode who drops the N word when speaking of Obama…I’m pretty sure O isn’t hearing that guy. But if you are referencing the charges of him being a communist, and holding to thoroughly Anti-Christian policies and personal beliefs…those are not bigoted they’re factual. Jesus Mary and Joseph…if leaving Fundyism means merely switching which Kool-Aid I’m drinking, give me back my KJV and slap some culottes on my daughter. Is the opposite of the Fundy Jesus the Hipster Emo Jesus who is afraid to man up?

      1. That’s just gold right there. I most certainly do not believe Obama is “okay” just because the IFB is full of head cases!

      2. Craig, I will give you one example; you are welcome to fact-check my statement if you so desire.

        John Sununu claimed several times that President Obama needs to “learn to be an American.” This is, in my opinion, a bigoted, xenophobic invective referencing Obama’s childhood years in Indonesia. International experience would be considered a benefit for a white candidate, but because President Obama is bi-racial, somehow spending 4 years overseas means he has no concept of American culture. The premise is ridiculous and insulting.

        I also take umbrage at your insinuation that I have merely “switched Kool-Aid.” I do believe Jesus loves Barack Obama just as much as he loves Mitt Romney, but that doesn’t require belief in a “Hipster Emo Jesus.”

        It seems that you’re still invoking the Fundy tactic of insulting those with whom you disagree. Your implication I (or anyone who attempts to make a positive comment regarding our President) am following a Jesus who refuses to “man up,” by the way, is also sexist.

        I respect your right to believe the worst of President Obama. I ask that you please do so without personally insulting those who may not mindlessly follow him, but are capable of stepping back and seeing him as a fellow human being created in the image of God.

        In politics, it is too easy to let the representative(s) of one party or another become merely a symbol of that party. I choose to believe that is the case here, Craig, and that you have allowed your passionate beliefs about what is right for America to color your views of individuals. I commend you for your desire to stand up for what you believe is right and your courage to speak your beliefs. I think others would hear you better, however, if you tempered that passion with a bit of gracious humility.

        God bless.

        1. After eight years of “Bu$h stole the election!” and now four more years of “Obama is a secret Kenyan Muslim!”, I have come to the conclusion that, for too many people, they’d rather try to claim the President is illegitimate than to argue about his actual policies, actions, or statements, in part because it’s easier to attack one thing than many. If the President isn’t REALLY the President, you don’t have to educate yourself on countless complex issues that usually have no single right answer, no matter what your politics are, and in part because actually focusing on the policies and actions of presidents shows the differences between them are pretty minimal. Obama has mostly continued Bush’s policies in many areas, especially the “war on Terror”, and neither faction likes to admit it. Personally, I approve of Obama’s social agenda and disapprove of his economic agenda. History indicates that bad economic laws are easier to repeal than bad social laws. Much as they did with Clinton’s grandiose plans in the 90s (remember “Hilarycare”?), Congress has been quite successful at stopping any over-the-top notions Obama may have — if he couldn’t pass a single-payer health plan when he had a filibuster-proof majority in both houses, he’s not about to pass a law to send us all off to the People’s Glorious Collective Tractor Factory, even if he secretly wants to, which I doubt.

          There’s a decent chance Obama could replace Scalia in the next four years, which would tip the court to the left.. but the liberal wing is aging more rapidly than the conservative wing, and I doubt the Democrats will hold on to the White House in 2016 (assuming the Republicans manage to figure out that alienating everyone not an upper class straight white male is a bad election strategy), so there’ll be a decent chance to tip it back.

          America is a conservative (little-c) nation. It changes slowly. Anyone who tears their shirt and decrees America is dead as the result of a single election needs to stop being so emo and get over themselves.

        2. Let’s disect..
          A: I would take John Sunnunu’s opinion over yours or even MY OWN where policy making is concerned. Since he has done it and neither of us has. None other than James Carville…never my favorite person but a Democrat operative nonetheless…said during the 2008 Primaries that he preferred Hillary over Obama because all else being equal Hillary was at least raised to LOVE America. Not like our boy Barry. His apology tour is an embarrassment. Your feeling that it “benefits a president to have international experience…” I suppose so…like doing a tour in the military overseas or having been an ambassaodr. Not being raised in a Madras in a Muslim nation by your muslim stepfather and then by your communist grandparents. Not THAT kind of international experience. That’s why foreigners can’t become president…because our founding fathers were wise enough to know that America was and will always be different and there is an American Way of thinking and acting. And while you likely have a distaste for that too…the much wiser (than either of us) founders did not.
          As for my using the term “Kool Aid” if I was aiming it at you I would have called you by name. I WILL state that I love this site but find an alarming attitude that revolting against ridiculous fundyism somehow requires revolting against everything they ever said, did, or held to whether it was factual or not. I’m not a republican or a Dem…but I have to go with whomever represents me on issues of life, and Faith. Somehow squinting hard enough to vote for a man who considers pregnancy a punishment and who couldn’t wait to lift the ban on partial birth abortions is bordering on heresy. The drinking of the Kool Aid comment was in general to the many who seem bent on turning everything they ever learned upside down simply because it seems scholarly in the new world of freedom they discovered outside of Fundyism. That’s heady but dangerous. And to support this man as a believer you either have to suspend your belief in inerrancy, (in which case what is the point of practicing your faith at all?) or you are
          “drinking the Kool Aid”. Bashing Fundys is ok, but questioning a claim of faith in light of scriptural mandate is anathema? As for my use of the colloquialism “man up”…SERIOUSLY?? You were trying to be offended if that offended you. Sexist??
          In closing…you have NO idea the harm I have personally suffered as a direct result of this man’s policies and his party. NONE. I promise you I have walked where you only fear to go and suffered pain that few people suffer without crawling into a bottle of abandoning my faith or something far worse. As a dad, and a second generation American without ONE relative until my grandparents on both sides arrived I am sickened by what He has done and what He continues to do. As a man who has tasted the bitter fruits of his policy I am even more so. It’s sad to see the post-Christian philosophy making it’s way even amongst Christians.

        3. @Craig For the record, I was not offended by your use of the phrase, “man up.” It’s still sexist in origin, since “manning up” is positive and “acting like a girl” is negative.

          Craig, I am sorry for the painful way American politics has and is affecting you. Perhaps if I had the misfortune of your experiences, I would feel much the way you do.

          And perhaps if you had walked in my shoes, you would view things similarly to me.

          My opinions (regardless whether they are biblical) do not and should not invalidate your point of view, and vice versa. Although I believe you and I probably would agree in a lot of areas, this doesn’t appear to be one of them. πŸ™‚

      3. Hipster Emo Jesus, that I GOTTA see! No doubt wears a tie-dyed robe and macrame sandals, “Peace be unto you, and whatever.” :mrgreen: 😎

        1. No he wears a mesh t shirt, skinny jeans, has a horrible beard and drinks only socially conscious Starbucks Coffee while composing his next “life Talk” (Deity-of-your-choice forbid that he call it a sermon) for this coming “Casual Gathering” (never a church service) on the “First “S” Day of the Week” (because words like “Sabbath” and “Sunday” have such painful connotations to the abused masses after a couple of millenia of “man-made religion”.

      4. Craig, can I just say I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. I have experienced political frustrations on the other side of the party line than you, but you seem like someone who has stuck to convictions that matter while rejecting those that don’t.
        I am also deeply disturbed by the hipster-Jesus trend, and by the tendency to switch from drinking to fundy koolaid to drinking the equally dangerous anti-fundy koolaid, which drugs us into blindly rejecting anything fundies ever stood for. Perhaps once one has been addicted to koolaid, it is easier to transfer addictions than to break them.
        A good friend of mine once said that people usually think of good and bad, right and wrong, on opposite ends of the spectrum. But more often than not, they are somewhere in the middle. This sounds wimpy and ecumenical, but when you think of it as a balance between fundamentalism and touchy feely, feelgood Christianity, it may hit the nail on the head.

        1. I concur with the need for balance. I am fully aware that I am terrified of becoming the legalistic rule follower I once was, and I do tend to err on the side many consider liberal or hipster.

          That’s why this site is so awesome; we have a free interplay of thoughts and opinions, but we know and accept that everyone is at a different place of spiritual growth and healing.

  11. Marco Rubio is the AntiChrist. If you rearrange the letters of his name you get “I Moor crab”, “Moor” suggesting an Islamic connection, “crab” being a beast from the sea. Anyone who has not been blinded can see this.

    1. Is Adrian Plass the Antichrist? He once said that the word “Fundamentalist” is an anagram of “Snail-Fed Mutant”

        1. Big Gary IS the antichrist! I stood in front of a mirror at 6:66 of yesterdays soccer match (the only running time I could find) and repeated his name backwards. “Gib Yrag…Gib Yrag” The floating head of Bob Jones Sr. …or maybe it was Junior…or it could have been Jack Hyles I don’t remember…but that doesn’t matter. What matters is that the floating head of an arch-fundy appeared in my mirror and told me my hair needed to be cut. Oh and then he said “Big Gary is the AntiChrist”

        2. Eh. They don’t really taste like much; they’re just an excuse to soak up garlic butter.

        3. Mushrooms. Cooks the snails and mushrooms in garlic butter, add a little broth and wine and make a sauce, and then you can’t tell the shrooms from the snails and it’s all tasty. Add garlic bread and YUMM…

        4. I’m sure there’s something that doesn’t taste good with garlic butter on it, but I haven’t found it yet. That won’t stop me from trying, though.

        5. I was gonna say cinnamon rolls. Way awesome breakfast treat + garlic butter = not so much.

          I bet you could use regular Cheerios (crushed) as a breading for something that you then fry and drizzle with garlic butter. Cap’n Crunch would definitely not work, though!

          Man, now I want stuffed mushrooms with garlic butter. Oops, need to wipe the drool off my keyboard. πŸ˜†

        6. That “Party Mix” stuff is basically Chex cereal soaked in salty garlic butter. I don’t see why that wouldn’t work on Cheerios, too. Maybe not on Cap’n Crunch, though.

        7. Cap’n Crunch and garlic butter… πŸ˜• I think I’ll pass on that. Just the thought of this makes me lose my appetite.

        8. I like garlic but garlic doesn’t like me. It does weird things to my digestive system. Maybe I’m a vampire?

  12. Honey Boo Boo has to be in the antichrist/beast/false prophet discussion. Either her or Chumley from Pawn Stars.

  13. David Koresh is the Antichrist.

    1. He died at age 33 like Jesus2. Real name Vernon Howell–6 letters in each name. Owned a Camaro–the other 6.
    3. Martyred by government–“grievous wound”
    4. He will rise up out of the sea–be resurrected.
    5. Changed name in Pomona, CA–Pomona was an ancient Roman goddess.
    6. Buried in Tyler, TX the “rose capital of the world”–it will be where he rises like Jesus did in a garden.
    7. Mother’s name: Bonnie from a French word meaning “good” like the good Mary from whom Jesus was born.
    8. Died on April 19, 1993 the same day that the Simpsons premiered in 1987 and the same day that Dick Sargent who played on Bewitched was born in 1930–born on a day of great evil because of his evil nature.
    9. Died in 1993: 1(9 + 9)Γ·3=6.
    10. Lived at one time in Palestine, TX.
    11. Ten horns=ten years from his “Lamb of God” prophecy until his death–10 years as head.
    12. Had an album called Voice of Fire–speaking like a dragon.
    13. Compound was called Mount Carmel.
    14. Day he was born there was an earthquake in Hebgen Lake Montana killing 28 people–like the earthquake when Jesus was crucified.
    15. Followed Lois Rodon–lois means superior and Rodon sounds like Rodan–thus the Superior Monster–the Dragon of Revelation who empowers the beast and who the beast makes everyone worship.
    16. Born in Houston which was founded by the Allen brothers just like Rome was founded by Romulus and Remus.
    17. In 1987, Koresh attacked Mount Carmel with 7 followers–7 horns of Revelation. He attacked on November 3 (11/3) which is 14 and if you divide it by two you get 7.
    18. Born Aug. 17–a Leo–imitating the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Jesus.

    I hope this is enough Fundyfied proof to show all you non-KJV believing, liberals who the Antichrist really is. πŸ˜‰

    1. I forgot one of the most important pieces of evidence:

      His name David Koresh– anagram: Hark Doves Id–refers to when the Spirit descended on Jesus and Id’d him as the Son of God–we are to hearken to the fact that Koresh is the (false)son of God. But his real name’s anagram is Hell Rev on now–showing his real characters as a Reverend (Minister) of Hell and also showing he is still alive but in hiding with the words “on now”

      1. Koresh
        = Cyrus
        = Isaiah 45.1
        = “Cyrus, My *anointed*
        = Cyrus, My messiah
        = Cyrus My *christos*

        Ergo, David Koresh = the *anti-Christos*

        Jesus = “Son of David”
        Koresh = *anti-David* (so, *David Koresh*)

        Quod Erat *Demon*strandum.

    2. You forgot perhaps the most significant thing of all when you mentioned Lois Roden–she’s a woman, and clearly any man who subjects himself to a woman is subverting the natural order of things in an eeeeeevil manner.

      1. Okay, okay–

        Nostradamus’ Century IX Quatrain 11
        “Wrongly will they come to put the just one to death, In public and in the middle extinguished: So great a pestilence will come to arise in this place, That the judges will be forced to flee.”

        See Nostradamus said they (the ATF) will come out to put the Just One (another way of imitating Jesus) to death wrongly. The word “extinguished” proves that it had to be by fire and also that Koresh actually was not harmed by the fire because he will be resurrected. And all those who judge him will have to flee.

  14. I’ve heard the argument from some that Judas was going to rise from the dead and be the Anti-Christ. I think it’s a minority even among fundies.

  15. The Anti-Christ persona is kinda of a mix of “the man of sin” in II Thessalonians, Anti-Christ(it goes on to say there are many anitchrists have gone out into the world from among believers) mentioned in I John, and The beast with the seven heads in Revelation

  16. The Pope, of course! I believe I was taught that in my high priced liberal arts education.

  17. I am a preacher in/out of a hard core “old time” fundy church and I am extremely sick and fed up with the pride, man worship, traditions and the list goes on for a mile BUT… I feel trapped and hopeless to get out of it. No clue where to go or how i would survive. I am contemplating just staying put in my church and movement and just dealing with it but not sure how much more and longer I can stomach it. Needing prayer, advise and serious help.

    Hidding and seeking

    1. This is a difficult position to be in. One of the things that is going for you is that IFB churches always declare that their focus is solely the Bible. If so, preach it. Declare it. Start focusing on the words of Scripture without adding all the “expected” addenda that IFB congregations often expect.

      I remember a church member asking my husband why he never preached against tattoos like the former pastor had done. My husband said it was because he only wanted to preach what was in Scripture. You may get flack, you may get accusations, but if you simply preach the Word, your conscience can be free before God.

      You can disassociate yourself from participating in conferences that you dislike if you choose. I think everyone needs fellowship, so you can try to reach out to another pastor in your area. Check out their websites and find another pastor who holds to the essentials of the faith but is not in your circles. Perhaps you can meet with him to pray for your people, that God will turn their hearts from self-righteousness and legalism to grace and love.

      My husband thought we could turn our church to a missional one that reached out to our community. We couldn’t — they were too scared of being “ecumenical” and were willing to continue to ignore certain key Biblical passages in order to stay true to their fundamentalist traditions of separation – but instead of kicking us out, they all withdrew one after another, week after week. It put us in a precarious financial situation and opened us up to painful accusations, but also gave us the opportunity to start anew with a new focus.

      This will be a challenge with a hard-core, old time IFB church, but that independence can work in your favor if you just keep preaching the Word. Of course, if you start telling them the truth, they may kick you out, but your conscience will be clear. (My husband took a job at a home-improvement store; disappointing for someone with an MDiv but he is willing to do whatever he needs to in order to further the Gospel.)

      1. Craig, i cannot give you my email for fear that it would expose me. I am an evangelist and cannot tell you how frightened I am for my family and our future. I may devolpe a fake email and contact you in days to come but for now please just pray for me.

        1. I am praying for you OTE…seriously. Please get that fake email going and get a support group around you ASAP. This is madness…nobody should live in fear like this. Anything I can do…just say so

    2. I can’t offer you help, and there are those here (like Pastor’s Wife) who are in a better position to give you counsel. But I will add you to our prayers at my church, and at home. I know how hard it was for me as an individual to crawl out. I cannot imagine doing it with the burden of others to carry. Hugs, dear brother.

    3. Wow. Well for starters, God bless you. Escaping fundystan is one of the hardest (psychological) things to do. Throw in a family to feed etc., and it can be a source of nauseating turmoil. I can only tell you that the pain of being hated by those who feel judged by your leaving will be replaced by indescribable joy of freedom, and especially if you find a church that actually lives out the fruit of the spirit. Blessings.

    4. On The Edge: Welcome.

      It’s OK to be afraid at this point. From the inside, the first step out of IFB and to doctrinal freedom is a big one. It’s worth it, though, no matter how much things get crazy at first.

      Pastor’s Wife knows about leaving the IFB as part of a family in ministry. She’s great to talk to. The rest of us can help you on the ground concerning other aspects of life.

      If you’re afraid of losing your faith in Christ at all, don’t be. There are plenty of supportive Christ-followers out here.

      Make that extra account if you feel like you need to. We are here. We are here for you.

  18. I was reading the LB books in highschool right around the time Hyles died and Schaap was voted in. The night the church announced his candidacy (one month after hyles’ death), he gave a short speech. The main thing that stood out to me, and is why I have remembered it all these years, is that Schaap sounded just like the anti-christ in the LB books. I don’t think I was too-far off; he may not have been THE anti-christ, but he definitely was an anti-christ.

  19. All this nonsense reminds me of the time that this missionary to Russia came to our church and after doing all the usual hyper-dramatic end-times build up said . . . that Dimitry Medvedev’s name means RUSSIAN BEAR. (Well, it actually does mean “bear” and it’s a Russian word, so I guess we can go with that.) There was this huge gasp of horror and look of shock on the faces of everyone in the church.

    Afterwards I asked some of them why they reacted that way. No one could tell me. To this day I really don’t know what the mess that was all about.

    1. Interesting how that particular missionary was (judging from what you wrote) hinting that Medvedev was the Anti-Christ. I’d have expected (if he was going with a Russian leader) him to suggest Putin was the “son of perdition” and that Medvedev was just a puppet.

    2. “Afterwards I asked some of them why they reacted that way. No one could tell me. To this day I really don’t know what the mess that was all about.”

      ## A bear is one of the beasts from the sea in Daniel 8, which is part of an apocalyptic vision.

      Add the (supposedly) Russian bear to Ezekiel 38’s references to Meshech & Tubal – (mis)understood by Dispensationalists as references to Moscow & Tobolsk – and you’re well on the way to “proving” that Medvedev the Bear will be involved in the Russian assault on Israel mentioned in “Left Behind” (the authors are Dispensationalists).

      I am not a Dispensationalist, but a Catholic with a fairish knowledge of Fundy stuff & a decent knowledge of the Bible. It is said that quite a few Fundies have a rather poor knowledge of the Bible – I can well believe it.

      Is “Ted” the talking teddy bear the AC ? “GodHatesPoohBear” should go on a T-shirt.

  20. Gorbachev was fingered as the Antichrist in 1987.

    By the A Beka “Weekly World” magazine.

    Shows what they know.

  21. Edward Cullen is the AntiChrist.

    1. Delusion – People are deluded into thinking he is harmless:
    a. He appears sparkly and bright like an Angel of Light though he is a creature of darkness.
    b. He attracts young girls who should be reading their Bibles instead.

    2. Demonic Influence
    a. His character is an evil vampire.
    b. His characteristics include being eternal, which is a quality of Christ.

    3. Deceit
    a. The symbol of the apple on the cover of the book is reminiscent of the fruit the serpent offered Eve.
    b. The significance of the title of the first book shows that this book is on the side of darkness.


    Edward Cullen is a fictional character? That means that he cannot be the antiChrist?

    But it was such good preaching!

    1. Despite sparkling in the sunlight and being richer than God, Edward Cullen has a permanent age of 17, and has been going to high school for close to 100 years. That makes him too young for anyone to take seriously, and casts doubt on his sense. (I mean — 17? Not a legal adult, never mind the drinking age? Couldn’t you have your ID say you’re in your twenties and just LOOK younger? And Perpetual HIGH SCHOOL? Al Bundy from Married with Children is the only one who comes to mind who would want to be in High School forever!)

    2. The Book of Revelation is based on “Harry Potter”

      When Voldy tries to kill baby Harry in Rev.12, Harry is saved.
      The First Beast “was not” in Rev.13, because he was being kept in the Chamber of Secrets. Some may think Sirius Black is the First Beast – they are wrong. That is obvious. Such deluded people have obvously been Imperiused, or else they are Muggles (see 2 Thessalonians 2)
      The false prophetess of Rev.2 = Professor Trelawney ? Or (more likely) Rita Skeeter
      The great red dragon in 12 who is “angry” is obviously Voldemort, who is often angry.
      Harry is “The Boy Who Lived”, “The Chosen One”, who is “wondered after” by the whole earth – as in Revelation 13
      The “Second Beast” of 13 with two horns = the other members of the Golden Trio, or Ron Weasley & Hermione Granger. The “horns” are their hats.
      The speaking image in Rev.13 is clearly a very advanced form of Transfiguration, carried out by Ron & Hermione (or possibly Dean & Seamus)
      The Two Prophets of 11 “prophesy” to Hogwarts. They are “taken up” because St. John is describing how they Disapparated. They are killed first because James & Lily Potter are killed.
      A third of the city falls in ruin in Rev. 11, because the Potter house in Godric’s Hollow is damaged as described in “Deathly Hallows”; the damage to Hogwarts is also implied.
      The Four Living Creatures of 4 are: Gryffindor’s Lion, Slytherin’s Snake, Hufflepuff’s Badge, & Ravenclaw’s Eagle.
      The angel Michael in Rev. 12 is Michael Corner (HP even names the character !!!), the Ravenclaw whom Ginny Weasley, AKA the Gryffindor Scarlet Woman of 17, throws over before going out with Dean Thomas (whom she also throws over). The “angels” in 12 are obviously other Ravenclaws
      The “waters” Ginny sits on in 17 = the lake at Hogwarts
      The “eagle flying in mid-heaven” is either Ravenclaw’s eagle, or John’s description of the Golden Snitch; probably both.
      The angels in the book are of course members of House Quidditch teams, and house members watching games of Quidditch
      The angel sitting on a cloud = a Seeker flying in mid-air
      “Time shall be no more” because the game of Quidditch has finished
      666 = the emergency number in the UK, read upside down, from the POV of a Quidditch player in the air
      When John “comes up” in Rev. 4, he is talking about “coming up” to Hogwarts, which is far “up” to the North of Platform 9 3/4 in London.
      Ron Weasley is the 7th head “who is one of the 8” of the Gryffindor “scarlet beast” on which Ginny Weasley “sits” – 7th, because he has finished year 7, and 8th, because he has to re-take it after missing it in DH

      The angels in Rev = Quidditch players
      The 2 Prophets (Rev.11) = James & Lily Potter ?
      James & Lily are “taken up” after being brought back to life because they Disapparate. John, who was a Muggle, did not know about Disapparition, so he described it as best he could.
      The eagle = The Ravenclaw eagle
      Some parts of Revelation are clearly based on the Triwizard Tournament in “Goblet of Fire”
      The angry Great Red Dragon (Rev 12) = Voldemort, who has a murderous temper and is a Slytherin; their animal is a snake. The GRD could also be the Basilisk in “Chamber of Secrets”
      And so it goes on.

      How could this be correct ? Easily. Superman flies back in time to the first century with the books and films, and – being a wizard – fixes up a cinema screen for John to watch the movies of the books on, after which John reads the books, then writes down the chief points of the books. The result ? The Book of Revelation. John was basing his book on the HP books. Maybe Mrs Rowling deserves some of the royalties from selling the NT, since she wrote the books that are are the main source for Revelation.

      Admittedly, there is some reason to think Saruman in TLOTR is the First Beast of Rev.13, but the Harry Potter books are much more likely to be the source – though the Four Horsemen of Revelation 6 could be four of the Black Riders. It would be wrong to be narrow-minded.

      The case rests.

  22. I was away on business…visiting the Vatican looking for a nice lot upon which to build my palace.
    You guys had a question about me?

  23. OK, pursuant to this guy (, who is urging his followers to try to stop the antichrist, I need to get clarification, at least in terms of “official” fundie doctrine, on this whole idea of stopping the antichrist. I’ve read Revelation. There’s no if-then clause in it. This is, if you believe, prophecy direct from God, and it’s inevitable. It can’t be stopped. It can’t be changed. It can’t be delayed or put off. It doesn’t trigger based on any human action, but on God’s timetable. (Which, like fusion power, is always close enough that you get excited but far enough that you won’t get called on it, but I digress.) Isn’t any pastor urging Christians to try to stop, slow, or otherwise alter the prophecy engaging in blasphemy? Unlike many of the OT prophecies, there’s no structure of “Unless thus-and-such, then thus-and-such”. There’s no “Repent, OR, this will happen.” It’s “This will happen.” Period. Full stop. It’s very Greek. Odysseus will kill his father, and the Antichrist will rise. That’s that.

    So where do some Fundies get the idea they should exhort their followers to go vote Republican in order to keep the Antichrist away for another year? If one believes the Bible is the literal word of God, there is absolutely nothing which can be done to affect how the Antichrist rises or what the events of his reign will be. (And, even if you try to construct it so that the apocalypse won’t start until the world has reached some arbitrary level of sin — ridiculous on the face of it, since Biblically all sin is equal in the eyes of God (which makes you wonder why Christian churches are more concerned about homosexuality than, say, coveting, but I digress again) and we’re all sinners — why would any good Christian WANT to slow it down and delay the final judgment? God never asks people to. He never says “But I will withhold my hand until I’m really, really, angry.”)

      1. Yeah, but Revelation doesn’t have a “Repent, or…” clause. It doesn’t say, “This is what will happen if people don’t turn from their wicked ways.”. It’s “This is what WILL happen, period.” It’s like Ragnarok. It’s going to happen, it’s just a matter of when, and there’s no indication (that I can recall) that God is waiting for some specific, human-controllable, event to occur on Earth before He kicks the wheels into motion. God’s got “Destroy The World” in his day planner in indelible ink, and nothing’s going to shift that.

    1. I need to get clarification, at least in terms of β€œofficial” fundie doctrine, on this whole idea of stopping the antichrist.

      It’s just the flip side of those Beavises & Buttheads who trashed all those churches the night of 6/6/06 — “DAMIAAAAN! I’M DOING THIS FOR YOUUUUU!”

  24. Actually Darrell,

    Nobody has to prove anything because destiny will tell when the time comes. As people like to say: “only God knows”, and Darrell, no matter what the devil throws at us, God is still in control. The devil knows this but we humans are notorious for not remembering this fact, and so, the devil uses our “forgetfulness” against us. Satan knows his end that he IS going to the Lake of Fire, but if he can “con” as many of us humans into cursing God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit and follow him to the Lake of Fire, then satan is happy.

    Satan is the master of “conning”. He beguiled Eve in the garden and knew that to “con” Adam, all he had to do was use a pretty woman (and it doesn’t say but if she is like most wives, she threatened to withhold sex and that is why Adam “crumbled” so easily). All throughout time, satan has “beguiled” or “conned” with absolutely no hesitation whatsoever. Even now satan is “conning” many on Stuff Fundies Like simply by putting a false prophet or a bad church in their path to spiritually and psychologically traumatize them so profoundly that they stop serving the Lord and instead spend their whole lives focused only on “the evil church”. To prove my point, I look at the comments left by “traumatized” christians and not one comment from anybody HAS EVER praised God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit nor has anyone ever talked about how God Jesus Christ Holy Spirt has blessed them. Every comment is about some “evil church” or some “evil pastor”. In our pain and suffering, we cannot seem to separate God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit from the “evil church” and “evil pastor” that hurt us. Darrell, fellow Christians: DON’T FALL INTO THE “GREAT CON ARTISTS” TRAP! YOUR SOULS ARE TOO PRECIOUS TO THE LORD! He knows your pain and suffering at the hands of all these wayward pastors and wayward churches, and He will punish them more than any of us could ever come up with as a way of punishment.

    God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit has been so wonderful to me. He has blessed me in so many ways every day that there is not enough trees nor recyclable trash to make enough paper to list all His blessings. Like for one, many years ago someone tried to set me on fire, but the brand new lighter tool they bought for the job would not work that very moment. It worked before and it worked after, but it wouldn’t work to “torch” me.

    I have been hurt as much as any of you by wayward/evil/wicked/whatever word you prefer pastors and churches, and I admit it is extremely difficult to separate God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit from those who “claim” Christ but do not “live” Christ. While, yes it is difficult, to separate the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS from fallen man it is not totally impossible when you start thinking about all the ways God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit has blessed you. When you start counting those blessings, it has a profound positive effect on you. It reminds you, He does care about you even when nobody else does.

  25. Steven Moffat, head writer for Doctor Who. Some quotes “It’s just a tv show, only the emotional damage is real” “There is something really cool about scaring children” and he delights in horrible cliff hangers before long hiatuses

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