220 thoughts on “The REAL Reason for Hurricane Sandy”

    1. Speaking of prophesy, did anyone read as far as I did, and catch this little bit of irony concerning the prayer meeting?

      “The storm is projected to come right over my house, so it might curtail the prayer meeting if the power is knocked out.”

      ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  1. I’m sure God is looking down at what’s happening surprised and in suspense (sarcasm)

    Nahum 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

    Even if there’s any truth to man-made manipulation of weather (possible, i suppose) God will allow it as he has already stated a Bible principle if reaping and sowing.

  2. I also picked up something along the lines of that we need to be unfriendly to gay people to stop the killer weather. Count me out, I try to treat them like Jesus would, instead.

  3. this guy is SO WRONG: Sandy is a judgment against America for abortion. Or maybe a judgment against socialism? God is warning us RIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION to make the RIGHT CHOICE. //sarcasm

    1. “Hurricane Sandy is hitting 21 years to the day of the Perfect Storm of October 20, 1991”. Huh, October 29 is TO THE DAY 21 years after October 20? ฮ™ should get my calculator fixed i guess

      1. Dear Josh, Doctor of Pulchritudinousness:

        BANG! Dead center!

        I can’t wait for Mr. McTernan’s title on economic justice!

        Christian Socialist

    1. This clown has published multiple books about this nonsense and I have to raise funds on a charity site to publish a book about the miracle of God’s Grace at Christmas. It’s an upside down world

    1. Hmm ….. I think I have just summed up the average Fundamentalist. Maybe God Is judging America because of Fundamentalists (with a capital “F”) …??

  4. And Hurricane Katrina, during the Bush Administration, was God *rewarding* the US for supporting Israel?

    I’d like to think that the creator of the universe, if he had a political opinion, would make it known in ways that could not be denied by snarky atheists such as myself. For example, he could inscribe “Support Israel” in giant flaming letters, visible from orbit, across some barren stretch of land like North Dakota.

    (I’ve been told “Well, God doesn’t do that because mumble mumble don’t put God to the test mumble mumble faith mumble mumble.” But God is Eternal and Unchanging, and He USED to do big, showy, miracles all the time, AND on demand — wossname lighting the pyre after soaking it, for example. Can someone point me to the Bible verse where He says, “And, now, I’m going to stop doing really obvious miracles, I’ll just appear on tortillas.” (I know that’s more a Catholic thing than a Fundie thing, but still…)

    1. “And Hurricane Katrina, during the Bush Administration, was God *rewarding* the US for supporting Israel?”

      Nah. That one was to punish ‘Teh Gay’ in New Orleans. Except God’s aim was a bit off- NOLA was hit hard, but strangely, not in the French Quarter… where the gay community is centered… ๐Ÿ˜†

    2. Every good Christian knows that Katrina was sent to stop the biggest Gay Pride parade in America. God sent the storm to save the city from disaster.

  5. Since Sandy starts with an “S” and Stuff Fundies Like starts with an “S” we can only I.F.Blogically conclude that Sandy is Judgement against the United States for allowing SFL to exist on the interwebz. ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  6. I know for sure that God is using this storm against the Gay Agenda. I asked my friend Matt what was on his agenda for this week, and he said that he and his husband had planned to paint their porch, but now they can’t because of Irene. He said they’re probably strip wallpaper instead. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  7. Here’s another reason for the hurricane:

    “This monster storm aimed at America and ready to inflict severe damage during election week is not a coincidence. Hurricane Sandy may flood Washington, DC on election day! It is like the hurricane is a huge bucket of vomit in Americaโ€™s face during the election.”

    That image is going to be hard to shake.

    Apparently Hurricane Sandy is like a Christmas tree-you can hang pretty much whatever you like on it.

    1. Today is 21 years “to the day” after Oct. 20, 1991, and apparently today is ALSO election day (which is still a week away). Sounds like Mr. McTernan should buy more accurate calendars.

    1. Speaking of working outside the home, for the longest time I thought this polecat person worked outside the home as a stripper. I just learned in another board that her name has nothing to do with stripping. Who knew?

        1. I called this troll a troll in a previous post. Got lambasted as a result.

          I think he’s the same guy who was on the forums a few weeks ago: DrJamesA. Sounds the same to me. ๐Ÿ˜•

        2. Unlike whatever message God may or may not be sending via hurricane express, the troll nature of the person in question is absolute, clear, and objective.

        3. So someone gives herself a stripper-like name and we are supposed to not think of her as a stripper? Hmmm, yea, that’s real logical. By the way, my name is not Jim. I personally find that offensive that you would think I’m a man.

        4. Shandurlki, a “stripper-like” name is Starr Honeypot or Roxie Mountains.

          Persnickety Polecat is an adorable appellation referring to the nit-picky nature of many in the IFB combined with their skunk-like tendencies to spray any and all perceived threats with malodorous secretions. Kind of like what you’re doing here.

        5. Persnickety Polecat has been here at SFL for a while. I never once confused her name with the name of a stripper. “To the pure all things are pure.”

        6. Tik-

          Yeah. I’ve been noticing some who open accounts and then assimilate for a while before they go into troll mode.

          Sockpuppet: a troll who runs numerous accounts so they can gain trust and then cause division and infighting. They *can* do a lot of damage b/t people who normally get along. Just Darrell checking IP addressees could answer some questions.

      1. You’re an idiot and a pervert. A poleecat is a skunk.I like skunks.

        And what other board? I use this name HERE and nowhere else, so I’m just dying to find out where you’ve learned this little tidbit. Or were you just being a jerk?

        1. I don’t know, PW, but this is the second time a troll has made such a rude comment to/about me, and I’d wager it’s the same person.

        2. I wonder if we don’t have sockpuppet accounts here and here’s my definition.

          Sockpuppet: a troll who runs numerous accounts so they can gain trust and then cause division and infighting. They *can* do a lot of damage b/t people who normally get along. Just Darrell checking IP addressees could answer some questions.

        3. I don’t really care that someone seems to be incapable of discerning between a little (ridiculously adorable) striped mammal and a woman who removes her clothing for money, but if someone is participating in sock puppetry, that’s pretty shady and worthy of at least a rebuke if not an outright ban. (just my humble opinion, for what it’s worth).

        4. I think the troll was referring to the comments in another POST (vs. BOARD) where he “discovered” that a polecat is an animal.

        1. I knew what you meant. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          It boggles my mind that I’m suddenly being confused with strippers. I am a 38-year-old married mom of three. I can more easily imagine someone paying me to keep my clothes ON than to take them OFF. ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

        2. Persnickety– is it possible we are mistaken? Maybe these fine, upstanding individuals are thinking furniture refinishers. Even I’ve done that kind of stripping. (I know it really doesn’t make sense, but neither does ol’ gutter-minds interpretation of your name)

  8. Let me have a go at the reason behind the storm.

    puts on fundy hat

    Children of either sex can be named Sandy. This storm is sent to show us that God takes blurring the lines between the Bible-ordained genders very seriously. If America doesn’t get back to the men being men and the women being in their place we will be hit by even more gender ambiguous storms! God is showing us the full consequences of women working outside the home!

    Is Sandy a man or a woman? I can’t tell and that ain’t right!

    takes off fundy hat

    1. Why would you ask a foolish question like that about God aiming a storm? Most of the people on this board gave up any believe in a “higher power” (other than ourselves) years ago. I am god, you are god, Darryl is god. But please cut the crap about some “allmighty God” of the bible.

      1. I am God and you are God and we are God together, ๐Ÿ˜Ž
        Elementary penguin singing ‘neath the Eiffel Tower, ๐Ÿ˜ˆ
        Yellow Dijon Mustard, dripping from a dead dog’s eye ๐Ÿ˜ฏ
        Great big gopher guts, french-fried eyeballs, ๐Ÿ˜†
        I am the Walrus! :mrgreen:
        Goo-goo-ga-joob! ๐Ÿ˜›

        okay how could i resist?

      2. Dear Shandurlki:

        Methinks your October 29, 2012 past at 3:34 pm stands in violation of the ninth commandment. You owe Darrell and others here an acknowledgement of wrongdoing.

        Christian Socialist

      3. Just to clarify – I’m a born again Christian, saed by grace in 2007. BTW, I didn’t come to Christ (or Christ come to me – I just assume I don’t know all the answers)at a revival, I was at my “party college” in my bedroom. I did go home to my fundy church to make sure it “stuck” (being a little facetious). So this “years ago” philosophy is an uneducated guess.

        I would venture to guess that you haven’t paid attention very well around here. There are people around here that are atheists, I’m sure, but they’re just as welcome as you or me.

      4. I am a BLOOD WASHED, BORN AGAIN BELIEVER. How dare you make such a sweeping remark! I feel so sorry for people like you that judge everyone that doesn’t fit in your little god box. So sad. ๐Ÿ™

    2. “why would God aim the storm at the Northeast where there are large Jewish communities”

      Have you READ the Bible? God has it out for us.

      To quote Fiddler on the Roof (paraphrased, from memory):”Lord, I know we’re the chosen people. Just once, though, please choose somebody else!”

      1. Lizard, that’s a joke, right???? I don’t think you really need to post much here if you’re actually being serious. Most of us here are atheists and talk of God is not appreciated.

        But speaking of hurricanes, I need a new tv. I just wished I lived in that area. The rioting and looting opportunities are going to be top choice!

        1. No, most of us here are not atheists.

          For example I’m not an atheist. Not even a little bit.

        2. Oh, and i am sorry, Mr. Shandurlki, but most of us did not give up the idea of a higher power. I believe in God and his son Jesus Christ, just not in the way fundamentalists twist them to be.

        3. Nope – not an atheist. I’m a committed Christian – just not an IFB-type Christian.

        4. Actually, most of you here are not atheists. It’s rather interesting that you seem to think that anyone who doesn’t hew to the party line must be an atheist, given that the Reformation began as a revolution against the idea that the church should dictate doctrine.

          Tell me, are you 1st/2nd edition (burn the body after killing), 3rd edition (track fire and acid damage separately, what a PITA), or 4th edition (any acid or fire damage negates regeneration for a round)?

        5. Some people here are atheists, some are agnostics, and some follow various religions, including – but not limited to – Christianity and Judaism. Most of us can get along quite well with each other despite our differences. Try it, you might like it!

        6. Hey, so maybe you can stop trying to speak for “most of us” here. You aren’t most of us. You are one person. There is a broad range of religious belief represented by the actual “most of us” present. Stop.

        7. Sigh. Nope, not an atheist. Not any sort of Christian you’d recognize, either. I think that’s a good thing.

        8. why, people, why are you engaging this asshole?!?! He/She is not new. Same shit different day.

        9. Very much a convinced committed Christian. I just don’t fit into the Fundy-Mental-Case mould. I hate being pigeon-holed – it makes me claustrophobic….

  9. I adore fundies who don’t even attempt to study meteorology to even make an attempt to understand how the planet works (Oooh, I said, “the planet”, now I’m a tree-hugging liberal!).

    Sometimes, a storm is a storm. It’s life.

    1. And the weather is certainly way beyond God’s control, right? To think that God might be able to have a say in weather is just foolish. Do you think you can haveit both ways? So if someone points out that mankind has been working on weather control for decades and has the ability to create and control weather systems to a large degree, then all you super anti-fundies would certainly say anyone who believes that must be a “conspiracy nut,” right? Because you’re all up on weather technology and no one would ever devise inventions to control weather, am I correct?

      1. Mr Jenkins can you offer definitive proof that “Sandy” is the judgment of God?

        In light of Luke 13:1-5 how do you justify or can anyone justify saying that this storm is due to ___________________ (fill in the blank with the sin, abomination, trespass of you choice).

        If Sandy is God’s judgment are you saying that those affected most by the storm are greater sinners than the rest? That sounds more like something Job’s friends might say.

      2. If we begin with the assumption that not all weather is the direct will of God, what metric do you propose to determine if a given weather system is or is not?

        If there is no test or observation which can tell the difference between “natural” weather and “divine” weather, then, there IS no difference. So we must then assume all weather is directly caused by God, which is dubious, because it would serve no point; it would be impossible to find a clear message in any random day’s weather events. Thus, the safer assumption is that God, if you believe in him, wound the universe up like a clockwork toy and is letting it run unattended; if he chooses to interfere in the running of the great machine, he (being a kind deity, and thus not inclined to confuse his faithful) will do so in a way that is undeniable and not subject to interpretation.

        Only someone who believed in a capricious, cruel, and evil god would believe he would send messages or express his will in ways that cannot be interpreted reliably.

      3. Seesh. Where did I say that God had no control of the weather? Storms and geological events are part of the Earth’s necessary function. Sometimes they take lives, innocent ones.

        My point is, don’t presume to call judgment when bad things happen. It’s WAY out of your league.

        1. (George cut me off)

          …. Or mine. A storm is simply a storm.

          Read Romans 2:4 sometime. Yeah, I never heard it much in Fundyland, either.

  10. This board is Christian? I agree with that Mrs. Shandooki lady that most people on here are probably atheist or agnostic. You’d never have a clue that some posters might be hidden Christians. Your vile cynicism of anything God might be able to do in a real-world sense is stunning. I have no idea why this storm is happening, but your caustic cynicism and sardonic replies that there’s even a slight chance God might actually have something to do with it is disappointing. Your hostility and antagonism towards anyone who might even hold out a small bit of believe that God just might actually be in control of even the weather is a turn off. It’s a major disconnect to constantly berate faith, God, etc. and then say at the end, “Oh, but I’m a super Christian by the way. I just talk, think and act like an atheist because of peer pressure, and it’s cool.”

    1. Dear Mr. Jenkins:

      Your October 29, 2012 post at 9:28 pm stands in violation of the ninth commandment. Your slanderous words oblige you to make confession of wrongdoing and to ask for forgiveness.

      Christian Socialist

    2. AAAAnd we have someone who obviously cannot read, makes ridiculous assumptions, and wouldn’t recognize what really goes on here if it kicked him in the backside.

      Troll.

  11. If only we’d been more steadfast in our support of Israel, so many natural disasters could’ve been averted.

    And Mr, Jenkins, I’ve been closeted long enough, but I have to say…

    I am a C
    I am a C-H
    I am a C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N
    and I have C-H-R-I-S-T
    in my H-E-A-R-T
    and I will L-I-V-E E-T-E-R-N-A-L-L-Y

    1. Typical poster here. Of course this weather system can’t be God, because God is just impotent when it comes to these kinds of things. But then again it can’t be anything man-made either, because even though weather-controlling technology has been in the works for decades, we all here are so super smart that we know that’s just a bad rumor put out by those stupid fundies. Hmmmm, so if it can’t be anythign related to God, can’t be anything that man has done (on purpose), then it just has to be those evil capitalists who drive those shiny new SUV’s! Yea, let’s go with that! We all hate capitalism here and socialism rocks!

      1. Here is what I posted on FB earlier and I believe it applies.

        No, what I’m saying is that there will be many pulpiteers who will get up an preach against their favorite sin and use this storm as proof that God is judging America because of____________________. There are characters of lesser character who claim they are the Man of God who will preach more about the headlines being proof of America’s condition than actually preaching Christ or the Gospel. to them God, Christ, and the Gospel are merely a means to an end. They will preach hard on sin, and hard on getting right with God but Christ is only a prop, a billy club to beat their listeners up with.
        If a text is used at all it is merely a launching point for them to take off and preach an emotional, spiritual, experientially manipulative sermon with. I dare say that in a multitude of pulpits this week “Sandy” will be mentioned more times than Jesus is. Are the one’s who are affected by Sandy greater sinners than other’s? cf Luke 13:1-5 “There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, โ€œDo you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.โ€
        Yet there will be sermons about how Sandy is proof of God Judging “This sin” or “That sin” depending on what sin strikes the fancy of these so called men of God.
        Does God judge nations? Yes, he does. Is America under God’s judgment? Of that I am certain. Is this storm proof of that judgment? That is unknowable.

  12. Dear John McTernan:

    As America has done to eretz Ysra’el?

    Have you any idea how many nations America has ‘done?’

    In the last 100 years, America sponsored some 60 wars [declared or not, open or covert], insurrectionist movements, assassinations, coups, puppet governments, currency attacks and other forms of international misdemeanors.

    If YOU think/feel/believe that eretz Ysra’el is singled out for special treatment, you’re wrong.

    Christian Socialist

    PS: Speaking of economic judgment, have you anything to say of Wall Street speculators and derivatives traders [traitors?]

    1. Mrs. Socialist, your loathing of capitalism and your love of Socialism is evil and you are obligated to change your views and apologize to all of us for trying to spread your evil propaganda on this blog.

      1. Dear Shandurlki:

        I notice you don’t deny that America has committed such international crimes as I named. I notice also that you don’t deny having slandered Darrell and others on this forum. Your confession and request for forgiveness remains outstanding. Kindly pay your bill by granting it.

        Christian Socialist

      2. Obligated by whom? He’s more than welcome to his personal beliefs as far as I’m concerned.

        What kind of a political system is it that attempts to silence one’s personal liberty? Hmmm …

  13. Last I knew the Bible says something about the rain falling on both the just and the unjust. How is it that saying we don’t think God sent this storm for judgement could get twisted to we think God is impotent over such things? Talk about reading stuff that isn’t there!!!

  14. Dear Mr Jenkins/Shandurlki,
    If you are attempting to be a Poe then you are not a very good one. Most Poes on this board are entertaining and good for some laughs. You are just being cruel. Perhaps a creative writing course at your local community college would help.

    If you are serious then please ignore this message.

    1. Whatever, I have no idea who this Jenkins guy is and I have no idea who or what a Poe is. What I do know is that I find your self-important, holier-than-thou attitude very revolting. How dare you call me out and ignore the troll known as Christian Socialist. Only a troll or an evil person would spread Socialist gospel here or anywhere. But maybe this shouldn’t surprise me. Most of you on here seem to buy into socialism and you probably hold this troll up as some kind of demigod and actually believer her tripe.

  15. Last night a guy from my church posted THIS:
    “Does anyone find it interesting and eye-opening that potentially the most devastating storm to hit the United States in recorded history (potentially affecting 60 million people) is targeting the Capitol of our country, Washington DC, and the Financial Capital of our country, New York City, at the same timeโ€ฆโ€ฆand just 7 prophetic days before the election of the man that will sit in the seat of President of the United States of America for the next 4 years? Wake up, O sleeper (Ephesians 5: 8-16)”
    When I shredded him with a logical dissection of this nonsense he jumped my crap on FB like there was no tomorrow, all but daring me to meet him behind the school and fight it out. And I go to a Calvary Chapel! Certainly not fundie whatsoever! I began with the “Prophetic number” crap. (7 being the “number of perfection”) He can’t count…yesterday was NINE days until the election. I was castigated openly by a few sycophants. Why do people NEED a God this angry and capricious?

    1. “Why do people NEED a God this angry and capricious?”

      Men create God in their own image.

      Or, if you prefer a non-atheist formulation, out of God’s infinite complexity, men perceive and focus on those aspects of God that mirror their own souls.

      Those who see God as loving, caring, compassionate, and forgiving tend to be decent people whom anyone, regardless of faith, would want to spend time with.

      Those who see God as wrathful, angry, bitter, and hateful… aren’t.

    2. “Why do people NEED a God this angry and capricious?”

      Craig, there’s a pretty good article rolling around, I’ll try to find it, but in a nutshell: it’s EASY to have a movement based on being against something. It’s even easy to find things to be against — for awhile. Then it becomes harder and harder to whip up the frenzy. It becomes harder and harder to whip up support for condemning this thing and that thing and every thing, to people who need to live their lives.

      It’s much much harder to be FOR something. For love and compassion and helping the needy. Because that kind of belief requires action. You have to show love, you have to live compassionately, and you have to give of yourself.

      Being wrathful is simple and simplistic. Being positive requires effort.

      1. @Sandy: You wrote: ” For love and compassion and helping the needy. Because that kind of belief requires action. You have to show love, you have to live compassionately, and you have to give of yourself.

        Being wrathful is simple and simplistic. Being positive requires effort.”

        To quote GK Chesterton: “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.”

      2. Don’t know where I heard this one, but:

        “You can tell when a preacher is in trouble when he stops preaching what he’s for and only preaches on what he’s against.”

      3. itโ€™s EASY to have a movement based on being against something. Itโ€™s even easy to find things to be against โ€” for awhile. Then it becomes harder and harder to whip up the frenzy.

        Big Brother NEEDS a Goldstein.

    3. Dear Craig:

      Wish I’d been there!

      ‘Please grow up, and be half as serious about religion as you are with politics!

      He may not have waited to meet behind the school!

      Christian Socialist

    4. Craig, this is the kind of thing I am talking about over in the forum: http://stufffundieslike.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5739

      I would like to think that you were able to keep a rational and civilized discourse (at least on your side) regardless of the mindless sycophants and maybe help someone shed some of their fundiness.

      I have personally noticed that when challenging a “pastor” on an error in a facebook post the sycophants really come out of the wood work!

  16. The guy who posted this is a douche. Seriously. The best part was after about 5 exchanges where I listed logical questions for him to answer concerning this post, he just couldn’t take it, attacked me and my “critical spirit” and then said he was “done with me and my merely human theology”. But wait there’s more…
    He inboxes me like 3 times giving me his phone number and daring / begging me to call him and discuss this “like a man”. I said “Jay…you posted this on FB and I responded on FB. The debate remains on FB.” Then he called me a “pompous child”. So he goes BACK on facebook and continues the fight telling me I am basically making my argument up as I go along. He decries me as uneducated in the Word about 5 times until I finally let him have it. I tell him in full sight of all the onlookers that I have a Bachelors in religion from one of the premier Evangelical Universities in the US and I have been accepted into seminary and am starting that pursuit in January. I told him “I didn’t want to arrogantly drop that in the conversation but you forced my hand by calling me disqualified one too many times. Then I repeated my logical questioning (Where is the Biblical evidences that God is behind this storm, Has God sent a messenger ahead of this catastrophe as He always does in the rare examples of his actually doing this sort of thing, Couldn’t He have aimed the storm a little better, etc) I think his head exploded at some point.

    1. I sure hope this is not someone you have to face in church on Sunday!! What a loser!

      Hopefully there weren’t many “onlookers” either . . . people like this have a way of pulling you into something you never wanted!

      By the way, I heard the storm hit the Jersey Shore, this morning I think? One of MY FB friends made the connection with this and the show “Jersey Shore.” ๐Ÿ™„

      1. Thankfully our church has grown to over 4000 and we need two services. I am an early riser and go to the 9 AM service. This guy never goes that early. He’s pretty self absorbed and fun to watch. As for onlookers…sadly there were quite a few and that was really why I even debated him in the first place. The funny thing is, I started the whole row with a smart alek comment. When he wrote about how the storm was “aiming for the government center and the financial district…” I remarked “Actually the storm is making landfall in South Jersey…maybe God is mad at Tony Soprano” He went nuts. “IT’s not about where it makes landfall!” Well apparently it IS, genius. If you want to claim God is sending a message about the election AND the stock exchange then either you are wrong or His aim is way off. The NHL is headquartered in NYC…maybe God misses Hockey as much as I do.
        What’s really sad is we are not a fundie church whatsoever. In fact it’s the most balanced church I have ever attended. But the problem with a church that big is it can be home to some whack jobs. Such is the case here.

        1. I debated him because he was steering a lot of people into this foolishness. I want to make that clear. I didn’t peck a fight to draw a crowd

    2. If you do end up going mano-a-mano with this weenie, ๐Ÿ˜ˆ give us a heads up and try to put it on YouTube, esp the part where he backs down and cries like a girl ๐Ÿ˜› I’d pay good money to see that!

      1. Panda…I’m 6′ 4″ 250. I haven’t had to drop the gloves in years because of my sheer size. This guy is a self absorbed poser and he would probably tee-tee in his boxers. But then I’d have to peel the “coexist” bumper sticker off my car

    3. Dear Craig:

      On reading this and your lengthy post below, I’m thinking that my earlier remark [goading ‘Jay’] may have been premature.

      Whatever maturity/personality issues are at work, your additional information suggests to me at least that ‘Jay’ is not the most stable of individuals.

      I think you held him accountable beyond his ability to answer. Faced with that, he responded with the only other strategy he has — punish disagreement with socially unpleasant outbursts.

      For the sake of onlookers, I think you were right to make your case. But I believe also that it is important to do so not in a way that is perceived as a challenge, but quietly, warmly and by offering simple questions. Most likely, ‘Jay’ would still react poorly, but the disparity between his shrieks and your dispassionately asked questions would speak volumes to those around you.

      Such a witness is critically important for people in IFB sects and false churches. They need examples of another way to respond to the bombast. Having learned this, they will have another perspective from which to assess those who act the same way behind pulpits.

      I commend you for your faithfulness, brother!

      Christian Socialist

  17. mag–please tell me you’re joking? I’m not an atheist. I just don’t think we should identify natural disasters as judgements on peoples’ sin when God hasn’t identified them as such . . . and I don’t think we should fight our theological battles on Facebook. These are things that make God look smaller, not bigger.

    1. No, Mag was teasing Craig that because he wasn’t agreeing that Sandy meant God is judging America and countering the accusations with logic that he must then of course be an atheist. She’s playing on the black and white thinking of some fundies: “You don’t agree with me? You must be an unbeliever!”

      1. Thanks, PW. Ex, she’s right – my [completely sarcastic] reply was to Craig, just a few minutes after your response. Don’t worry, I know you’re not an atheist. ๐Ÿ˜€

  18. Ok, I may take some heat for this…

    God has in the past used natural catastrophes to get people’s attention. Examples: Egyptian plagues, Elijah’s drought, drought and locusts in Joel, etc.

    I don’t doubt that people who haven’t prayed in a long time have prayed as a result of Hurricane Sandy. Natural disasters remind us of our human weakness and inability.

    Having said that, I do agree that it is foolish to ascribe Sandy as punishment for a specific sin (Israel neglect, gays, abortion, etc.). We have to be extremely careful about “speaking for God”. It’s also foolish to think that every bad circumstance in our life is divine retribution. My fuel pump went out this week, not because God is mad at me, but because my car is old and fuel pumps wear out. Thankfully, we have money in the bank to pay for it and a good, honest mechanic.

    I wish I had posted this earlier yesterday so I could hear more feedback, but FWIW…

    1. @FundyPastor

      Undoubtedly, many people are praying. Some are praying to Yahweh. Some are praying to Allah. Some are making offerings at a Shinto shrine. My pagan/wiccan friends are channeling energy and calling on the Goddess and whatever this week’s flavor of worship happens to be. When confronted with something they can’t control, humans seek control. I tend to go into hyper-knowledge-seeking mode, reading every article I can on hurricanes, disaster survival, etc. That’s my “prayer” — my ritual to help calm my mind and focus myself so that I don’t panic.

      As someone else noted, biblically, God didn’t just throw down a natural disaster and let people work out he was sending a message. He always sent someone to say “God is really pissed, and as a SIGN OF HIS WRATH, you WILL SEE thus-and-such”, usually (always? Not sure?) accompanied by an “UNLESS YOU REPENT.” Even the wrathful Old Testament God was a lot like The Doctor[1]… he always gave you a chance to back off before he lowered the boom. (Well, except in Egypt, where every time Pharaoh was about to do the smart thing and not pick fights with the Almighty, God would “harden his heart” so he wouldn’t let the Jews go. Not one of God’s better moments. They didn’t really discuss that in Hebrew School.)

      [1]Hmmm… he has many forms, but he’s always the same person. He is aware of all time and space. He can come as a compassionate savior or a wrathful destroyer. Hmmm. Hmmmmm……

    2. I see what you are saying. In my opinion, it is possible that this storm is judgement from God. The problem arises when people such as the one under discussion make a blanket pronouncement as to what particular sin God is judging.

      It is also possible that the Atlantic seaboard is prone to hurricanes and eventually one was going to hit. Due to natural effects hurricanes curve north out of the south Atlantic. Normally they plow through the West Indies but sometimes they head farther north.

      When someone says “this could be God’s judgement” I have no argument with them.
      When they say “this is God’s judgement for sin X” I do have an issue with that.

    3. Fundy Pastor…yes He has. But they were specific to a certain people for a certain purpose and he always sent a Prophet ahead of the catastrophe. The prophet spelled out precisely what was going to happen if_____ and that is precisely what happened. It was never left to even the slightest possibility that the catastrophe was from any other cause than God. None of that is in play here.

      1. If I were still an IFB-er, I’d say “Hay-men,” but since I’m not, I’ll just say I agree with you.

        It’s pretty nervy to claim to be speaking for God when you just don’t know. You could put yourself in a position to have God speaking to you out of a “whirlwind” (think Job’s “friends”).

        I think we should stick to seeing if there are ways to help those whose lives are devastated by the storm and leave the judgment to God (Deut 29:29).

    4. @fundy pastor:
      What was your fuel pump on? I just replaced the one on my 1989 C2500 P/U. Then, at only 199,000 miles the alternator died on my Suburban. I’m sure if I was “livin’ right” my automobiles would last forever. (Or at least 40 years like the Israelites’ shoes in the desert.)

      Your thought was well stated. Why do we never hear the flip side, how God even says He bestows blessings on even the unjust? For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. Matt. 5:45b

    5. I think this post has fair points. God does use tragic or serious events for His glory and they can indeed be used to make people consider their estate. I don’t know that the conclusion is “GOD HATES US ALL AND IS TRYING TO PUNISH US”, but at the very least, whether God sent the storms or not, I think we can all agree He can use them for good, as He did with the terrible things that happened to Joseph.

  19. The whole premise of this thread is off-base. Instead of arguing who’s right about if this is an act of God or not, maybe you should all realize the truth: MEDIA HYPE In 2-3 days this story will go into the dust pile and no one will even remember that there was a “big storm.” This storm is way overblown (pun not intended). You are just buying into the media’s hype. This is just another tropical storm. Not unlike any other year for the past 10,000 years. The only difference between now and 1432 is that we didn’t have CNN and CBS to create hype and furor over a run-of-the-mill storm. People – please go back to more relevant topics.

    1. Eventually, everything is forgotten. So, what’s your point? It’s something that is, right now, affecting many people’s lives, which means it is normal human behavior to discuss it. In a country of 300 million+ people, it provides a common point of interest that people can use to initiate conversations and communicate, getting to know each other and sharing experiences. Such common points are rare, which is why the media “hypes” them — it’s called “Man bites dog”. The news reports the atypical, and, by definition, the atypical doesn’t last. Either it goes away, or it sticks around so long it becomes typical.

      You were a member of your schools Tautology Club, weren’t you? https://xkcd.com/703/

  20. I think that we may be missing the underlying reason why alleged MOGs make statements like this: it is my belief that MOGs tell stories of God’s wrath to scare the sheeple back into the all-controlling arms of the MOG. See, they want to create the immpresssion that God is a big meanie, and the only person that can get God to show mercy to a poor believer is the MOG. How often does an MOG make reference to a “great secret” that he alone is dealing with…it is something so terrible that he cannot even tell the flock what it is for fear of panic. In this role, the MOG stands firmly in the place of Christ – and for that, they WILL get their just rewards.

    1. Isn’t the Greek for “Secret” in that context “Occult”?

      And the Speshul Sekrit Knowledge the MOG possesses “Gnosis”?

      And those Speshul Super-Spiritual types who hold such Speshul Sekrit Knowledge that would fry the brains of the mere sheeple “Gnostic”?

  21. Wait a minute. If I recall correctly, from my old fundy pastor, God’s judgement on America for it’s lack of support for Isreal was the tornado that went through Joplin, MO.

  22. On a perhaps unrelated note, why would God express his wrath at America failing to support Israel by targeting hurricanes at areas most densely populate with Jews?

    Perhaps the tiny minority of anti-Zionist Jews (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism#Jewish_anti-Zionism) are right, and God is wrathful because America IS supporting Israel!

    Boy, this is fun! Whatever political point I may wish to make, I can claim God supports me in it!

  23. Hurricane Sandy happened because the Weather Channel’s recent extreme weather documentary was inflammatory towards Poseidon. Obama is flying to Mount Olympus as we speak to make a full apology and assure the pantheon that Jim Cantore will be brought to justice.

      1. even better–I’ve got a friend with a stuffed Cthulu. We could sacrifice to it (being careful to avoid prolonged gazing, of course).

        Seriously–what’s the difference between this mentality and the fundy God who periodically hurls lightning bolts at gays and liberals, only to be appeased by “revival” in Podunk Baptist Church until next hurricane season rolls around?

  24. I would pay good money (well, sorta good… OK, not so good, gimme a break I don’t got much) to get on film the recorded response from any fundie preacher (the bigger, the better) to the following question:

    “OK, so, we’ll assume you believe in the literal Biblical account of creation. You may or may not be aware that things like the Hubble deep field scan shows there’s hundreds of billions of galaxies, not stars, mind you, but galaxies in the universe, and that those galaxies have, on average, half a billion stars, and that in the last decade, we’ve come to realize that most of those stars have multiple planets. Now, according to Genesis, God creates all of the lights in the sky on the fourth day, all of it, half a trillion galaxies, perhaps more, in under 24 hours. Now, OK, let’s accept that. That’s astounding. You look at the Hubble Deep Field, or any other such images, and you think, “This God did all that in a day…creation beyond what the human mind can hope to comprehend was brought into existence, an expanse of stars so vast that it cannot be accurately measured, merely guessed at, and we can see only the faintest echoes of most of it, only able to imagine the infinite beauty and variety of the quite literally trillions of planets which exist around all those stars. This God, this creator, who can do such things, with so little effort, a being of such incredible wisdom and power and artistry… this God, you believe, just killed 100 or so random people because he’s really upset that one guy stuck his shlong up another guy’s butt. That is what you believe? Yes or no? Yes or no?

    1. Simple, Lucy van Pelt said “If a person suffers, it’s because he did something bad, that’s what I say,” or so she was always telling Linus. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

  25. I remarked โ€œActually the storm is making landfall in South Jerseyโ€ฆmaybe God is mad at Tony Sopranoโ€ He went nuts.

    Bada-Bing!

    Better make sure Mr Righteous doesn’t try to whack you in the church parking lot or something.

  26. We hear about Acts of God in contracts etc. and the term is applied to dire situations, force majeure. Also, some writers elsewhere may think this was an Act of God because of His wrath suggesting that God is not happy about the current President, etc. Well, consider this:

    If that were the case, and God wanted a change of government, this Act of God will probably propel the President back into the White House because he will be on the spot, looking Presidential, and getting all the attention. He will be in New Jersey this week and looking very much in charge marshaling the resources of Government for rebuilding. Plus, the fact that most Republicans – and this is already noted – want to gut FEMA and hand over all these functions to the state governments, arguing less is more. Well, tell that to everyone in the Northeast, with the electoral votes able to push Obama over the top. Some Act of God, and if so, this is one that I totally embrace.

    Oh yes finally, look at Intrade – the predictions futures market – showing the President (today) with a 63.1 percent of re-election.

    hahahahahahahahahahaha

    1. Which can get spun as God giving Obama a second term to Punish America Further.

      (After the 2008 election, I heard from an alleged direct line to God that “Now My Judgment on This Country Begins.” Sandy propelling Obama to a second term is a very plausible continuation of this spin.)

  27. I read an article suggesting that storms hit the East Coast with more damage now partly because there are no longer any barrier reefs in the area.

    You heard that right. Barrier reefs. Seriously, there apparently used to be so many trillion oysters alive at any one time up and down the East Coast that they formed submerged reefs, living oysters growing on the compacted shells of dead ones, and these reefs used to blunt the force of hurricanes. Native American tribes used to live on oysters for part of the year. Then our Biblical free-market economy came along and basically ate up the oysters. No more live oysters to maintain the reefs . . . no more reefs. What they have now is oyster patches here and there, and not many of those, and three inches of sand on the blacktop at Atlantic City and floodwater in the subways in Manhattan.

    But talking about such things is UNAMURRICAN and UNTRUSTING OF GAWDZ PROVIDENCE and TurboJesus is going to blow everything up anyway so who cares, amirite?

  28. Darrell, I know you have patience, but can’t we ban the one person with the several accounts? It’s tiresome and nothing profitable is coming from it.

  29. I wasn’t going to post in this thread, but then a thought occurred…

    For what it is worth, I don’t know that this storm was a judgement from God; compared to some of His judgements, this one was pretty light. It could have been – the Bible tells us that His thoughts are far above our thoughts.

    But what struck me as I was reading and thinking about this is I wonder how many of us SFL regulars would act had we been around in Jeremiah’s time? Today, we have the benefit of hindsight, and we know that God really was speaking to Israel via Jeremiah, and that God really was angry with Israel for specific sins, and that the other preachers were inventing their speech.

    But what if we lived in that time? Would we join with those denouncing Jeremiah as having some ulterior motive? Would we chide him for his “doom & gloom” and lack of love? Would we refuse to believe Jeremiah because God didn’t tell US or any of the other prophets those things He spoke to Jeremiah… and how presumptuous of Jeremiah to think that he spoke for God!

    I’m not saying that the guy or web site Darrell quoted is right – but sometimes we come across as arrogant as the ones we criticize, so sure of ourselves, that we are right and everyone else is wrong.

    Just some late-night thoughts.

    1. Interesting to contemplate. I’ve often wondered how I would have responded to Jesus if I lived when He walked the earth: would I have followed Him or would I have been offended by His claims?

      I guess the difference between today and Jeremiah’s time is that we have the New Testament with the Gospel. In Jeremiah’s day, there was the law with warnings of judgment for disobedience and blessings for obedience, but today we have the amazing, glorious promise of grace that Jesus has taken our judgment upon Himself. I guess for me I just want to hear THAT proclaimed more.

      Also in Old Testament times, a prophet HAD to be correct 100% of the time (of course, some prophecies were about the future so people wouldn’t immediately know if he were a true prophet.) A lot of the doomsayers today (I don’t know about this one because I didn’t read the website) have disqualified themselves by claiming Jesus is returning on a certain date.

      In addition, while sinners DO need to be warned, Christians are to live in joy and peace. I find too much emphasizing this sort of thing creates either fear or self-righteousness instead of the fruit of the Spirit.

      Hope you don’t mind a few musings of my own here! ๐Ÿ™‚

    2. I think a key word here is “Prophet”. If someone had said, a year ago, that a hurricane would form under such unusual circumstance, follow thus-and-such a path, and strike on thus-and-such a date, and this would be a sign from God he was displeased with a particular action, and THEN it happened… well, I’m not personally going to be convinced by one prediction, but if he pulled it off two or three times, I’d take notice. And those already inclined to faith would have a solid example of it. But waiting until after secular scientists watched the hurricane form and predicted its path, and then deciding to INTERPRET it according to their own personal bugaboos… that is not the mark of a prophet, that’s the mark of a con man.

      Prophets say, “This will happen”, and it does. Charlatans say, “Oh, something bad happened? That’s because… uh… God hates gay people and black Presidents.”

  30. I wish John McLernan would clarify something for me. Which is more important, the State of Israel as a God’s Chosen Country or the Jewish People as God’s Chosen People? Which is more important to support and care for? Israel or the Jews? I have a feeling that many Fundamentalists don’t care a great deal for Jews who live outside the Promised Land.

    1. This is an interesting question, given that there are more Jews living in the U.S. than in Israel, and that the Jewish population of the U.S. is largely concentrated in the areas hit hardest by Sandy.

    2. @Paul… Oh, I’m sure they care about the Jews, as long as we aren’t in their country clubs. ๐Ÿ™‚ (And there’s the paradox that the Jews, God’s Chosen People, tend to be pretty liberal on social issues in America, putting them opposite the Fundies. Of course, hypocrisy and blind spots are not endemic to any group of people, faith, or culture — those same liberal Jews tolerate or condone behavior in Israel they would not were it committed by any other nation…and, of course, trendy campus leftists support anti-feminist, anti-gay, totalitarian theocracies over the only functioning democracy in the Mideast… which is not to say Israel is not systematically committing acts of oppression and discrimination against the people in the Occupied Territories… which is not to say that given the constant violent assaults coming from those territories, that they have much choice other than surrender and destruction…. which is not to say they couldn’t have made better choices at many points and not be in this mess now… but they ARE in this mess now… and this is probably why fundamentalism (of any faith, or non-faith… any kind of rigid absolutism) is appealing: You don’t need to think. You just ask someone to tell you what the single, easy, obvious, right answer is, and you stick to it no matter what.

    3. As a survivor of The Gospel According to Hal Lindsay, I can tell you why:

      End Time Prophecy(TM). Israel Is In The Land, starting the Armageddon checklist. They don’t give an F about the Israelis, about the Jews. Like you and me, they’re not really people — only pieces to move about on the End Time Prophecy gameboard.

      1. Which is really all about what will happen to The Church ie Christians of the Fundamentalist bent, which of course are the only real Christians and the only pepole who really matter. We Christians can be as self-serving as anyone is this World. We only make it look holy.

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