Ever wonder what kind of rules people have to live by when they’re on the staff of a hardcore fundamentalist church? Ever stop to think exactly how much control the pastor has directly of their personal lives?
Presented here without further commentary is the Staff Manual for North Valley Baptist Church, kingdom of Jack “the pastor is your shepherd you shall not want” Treiber.
(If you’d prefer not to read it on scribd you can also directly download the PDF)
634 thoughts on “Staff Handbooks: North Valley Baptist Church Edition”
I wouldn’t risk that . . . he’d probably spread some rumor about you (pedophile, closet homosexual, doesn’t tithe, who knows?)
He may have already done so. Don’t underestimate him.
Did anyone else notice that he wants his elderly servants to get on Medicare ASAP. What would you like to wager he hates the government programs for anything. Bet he hates Medicaid “harlots having babies” but as soon as he can he dumps his people on a government program. And the hypocrisy goes on and on.
And I bet that church will be dishing out for all of his medical expenses for as long as he’s living (even if he retires).
No, Mandy, the church won’t have to pay, because I’m sure when he retires/resigns he will follow his own Manual and break off all contact with church members, leave within two weeks, won’t accept any phone calls or talk with any members, will pack up his office after hours, disconnect his phone, and won’t give his new number or address to any church members. They wouldn’t be able to pay his medical expenses because they won’t be able to find him.
Yep you are correct besides who has to be in contact when you have already given yourself a big ole fat paycheck. I call this building your own castle instead of building HIS. Kingdom
This is comment #496. Can we get 500? 😆
I didn’t read the manual…too heavy.
Could I be the 500th!?
Trying again! 😎
Woohoo!! I did it!! Do I get a butt cushion for being the 500th?! 🙂
511 has to be some kind of SFL record. pastor Trieber should be proud.
Not even close. I am not sure if the following post is the record holder but it has to be up there.
Checking in with 756 comments to date:
Yes! He’ll be bragging that over 500 people made a decision (to comment)
Holy Crap. It is cool that Darrell was quoted by that newspaper. And it was the biggest news story to hit the airwaves in years. the shockwaves, I think, will reverberate for years. I think its the end of HAC’s old ways. They will be pared down.
Unholy crap. I just read all 622 pages of that thing.
Get up early for a date with your schedule.
Be in bed by 10pm on Saturday night so you are rested enough that you can build Pastor’s ego during the sermons.
Tithe every time the plate comes around.
Armor All everything. Your hair, your shoes, your cars and the church windows.
Let others have opinions even though your opinion means nothing to Trieber.
Micromanaging at its best.
don’t forget your armpits, your teeth, and your legs (with hose) if you’re a woman!
If I read all that, I’d want to Armor-all my brain!
On tithing every time the plate is passed, the unwritten rule was that if you had already paid your tithe and did not have money on you, you were supposed to fill out an empty envelope and put it in the plate so others would see it and think you were giving.
Appearence is everything, remember?
I’ve tried to imagine being their daughter-in-law. GASP! When I told my husband JT tells his staff what time to go to bed Saturday night, and what to eat for breakfast Sunday morning, he had a one word response: C.U.L.T.
My favorite was the section on rules for the employee’s personal life. I expected there would be prohibitions on sexual sin and the like. But I didn’t think there would be rules as to how to clean your house and yard, how to sit with proper posture and how to use deodorant, including a rule that you have to cycle through different brands of deodorant periodically.
My fave: no eating with your elbows on the table. Keep in mind, this isn’t a rule for eating at the workplace. It is a rule that applies at all times, at McDonald’s or in your own kitchen at night.
Not sure how they could enforce these, but in theory, anyone could rat them out for failing to cycle their deodorant brands or eating with their left elbow leaning on a kitchen table and it could be the basis of dismissal.
God’s workplace is worse than FoxConn.
The rule about not sitting with ankles crossed supposedly came about because some guy fell asleep on the platform with ankles crossed and fell over and faceplanted on the platform. Thus the no ankle-crossing rule.
It says to “bring a good spirit to
church”. I’ll bring some vodka.
My kinda man.
Given that I’m not a man, Bob, I’m not sure how that’s possible … lol
Whoops. My kinda lady. Vodka at Fundyville.
I’m a bourbon man myself. Clink of the glass to you.
I want to get a job there just so I can get fired and pack up my office during school hours, then put the boxes in my dirty car.
This made me literally lough out loud!
All mockery aside, this text reminds me of two things:
True-crime writer Ann Rule has profiled narcissists convicted of everything from embezzlement to murder. Many of them love to give minute, exhaustive, excessively personal instructions to the people around them, and of course they all think they’re the greatest thing since pre-sliced cheese (unless something jostles their vast yet fragile self-satisfaction). She has quoted from crazy-making Big Books of How I Want You To Live and hilariously un-self-aware Wow, I’m Great manuscripts (such as a puffed-up autobiography ghostwritten by somebody’s bamboozled mistress). I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen both in one package!
Also, if this thing was formatted in gigantofont because it’s supposed to be easier to read on an iPhone, then it follows that Pastor Treiber expects his employees to have it on their iPhones. You can put an employee manual on a shelf and walk away from it, but this horripilating screed is supposed to be on your phone, which means that it’s always with you, every single nitpicking overweening soul-crushing commandment. C.S. Lewis, in his investigations into the nature of evil, classified a particular type of human evil as diabolical: the desire to make another person into an extension of ourselves, so that they always and only think and act and speak in ways that we ourselves think and act and speak–the desire to blot out the individual self that God made that person to be–in effect, to consume another person in order to increase ourselves, like a parasitic fly growing in the brain of a caterpillar.
The IPhone surprised me; aren’t fundies supposed to be hell on any technology that isn’t at least a quarter century old? 😆
Thank you for a new vocabulary word: horripilating.
I’ve got to work that into a conversation this evening …
I left a comment earlier, but I had another thought. I’m a former member; my parents gave thousands of dollars to Jack’s ministry up through the 90’s. From my experience, he was/is a master manipulator. How? Well, he lays down the law, but he sweetens the deal by throwing his minions a bone here and there: a surprise day off, gift certificates to a nice restaurant, flowers, a free night at a hotel (with a spouse of course), etc. These are the little tokens of his “appreciation” (code for “don’t you dare leave me!”)
I’ve worked for outfits that did this kind of thing. But I’d rather have fair wages, decent health insurance, and guaranteed employee rights than all their gifts and perks.
Definitely, BG. Security before surprises. I haven’t commented on this blog in awhile, but when I saw Trieber’s picture, I had to put in my two cents. The truth is JT pretty much controlled my life for awhile. Because of him, I was manipulated into going to a Bible college that I didn’t want to attend; ended up staying there, got my MRS degree (it was God’s will – didn’t matter that I didn’t really ‘love'[hollywood love – eros] him), left fundyville, got divorced, and now I’m a liberal agnostic. YAY ME!!! Thanks to the internet, I can be entertained 24/7 by sites like SFL 😀
I’m sorry for all that you’ve gone through, and even sorrier that their church has made you question God’s very existence, let along the love He has for you.
Your testimony is just, well, sad.
I think i know you…we probably went to high school together. The stuff we grew up under does not represent the true God of gospel grace. I hope you won’t remain agnostic.
A too common theme. You are among friends here.
He did mention that somewhere in the beginning of his tirade. I found it laughable at best.
We visited there several times and those several times was ALL $$$$$$. Money and appearance are the highest priorities.
His tirade also mentions that staff should be out of debt because he had plans for buildings that would not go well if every one was in debt.
He had plans for the buildings, huh? What about everybody else?
I’m trying to imagine our priest standing before the congregation and saying, “I have plans for the buildings.” The vestry would glare and the congregation would stare and I don’t know how many people would corner him one after another after the service to tell him that he hadn’t thought it through. First the priest has an idea for how to use the buildings to fulfill Jesus’ commands. Then he takes it to the vestry committee. Then, after they’ve hashed it out, the priest asks a vestry committee member to present it to the congregation. Or, the junior warden tells the vestry that such-and-such problem with the physical plant has become urgent to the point of needing a fundraiser and they tell the priest what to say!
You can buy the staff manual on their website to impliment despotism in your church. http://nvpublications.org/books?product_id=128
Now we know that all the excitement, enthusiasm, hype and happy happy chipper chipper is all fake.
Look at Trieber’s eyes on this picture:
He looks live a very troubled man. When his heroes like his father-in-law and Schaap all get kicked out of the ministry for sexual sin, it’s gotta make him scared to death! 😯 Since he doesn’t understand the gospel, he has to tighten the standards and the legalism even more to protect himself from becoming one of them.
Seriously? That is one narcissistic blog! Not sure how anyone could think that was remotely attractive.
What happened with Trieber’s father-in-law?
I love my church in Columbus, OH RockCity. Our building is a rented movie theater. It was started 18 months ago in a living room, and we’ve had 500 people saved in the last 18 months. We’re now renting 3 theaters on Sunday mornings, while running 3 services, 9am, 10.30am, and Noon. The reason we rent theater space is so that the church has more money to give to the local battered women’s shelter, more money to feed the homeless in the tent cities we visit twice a week to hand out food, and more money to give to underprivileged children for school supplies that we hand out at local parks where they can get their faces painted, grilled food, and a few hours of positive attention. We’re up to over 1,000 people every Sunday, and the last thing the pastor talks about is “His” building or “His” church. It’s all about how can we draw the people of Columbus to Christ by showing unconditional love, without any strings attached. We go find people in need where they are, and do everything we can to help them, without demanding they come to church to get help. I’m obviously biased, but I think God is blessing the church because we’re doing things His way. The NT church made their local community “marvel” because they sold what they had to give to people in need financially.
Having grown up IFB, it’s so refreshing to finally see a thriving group of humble people who only want to serve and provide for the local communities pressing physical needs, then see God working, and the church growing. It feels so good to be excited about going to church for the first time in my life. I always felt guilty in the IFB for dreading the thrice weekly ritual of dressing up to be berated about non-biblical “standards”, while surrounded by a lot of good people who always appeared to be enduring it all because they’d been taught that being a good Christian should include a life filled with whole lot of misery, topped off by a generous portion of constant guilt.
And your chances to help the homeless will only increase more quickly if Obama is elected. He and Romney are in many ways very similar, but Obama’s plan will bring financial ruin and destruction even faster than Romney’s.
^ Troll. ^
Guilt ridden, I don’t think my testimony is sad! It wasn’t the church that made me question my beliefs; it was me being honest with myself. It’s a nice way to live 🙂
Oops, that reply should be above a few posts. Go Giants!!! Trieber and I are cheering for the same team, lol.
I think it is sad that you are an agnostic now, and not a believer in Jesus Christ. It is sad how they treated you (but it is good that you saw it for what it was). It is sad that you had to go through the turmoil of a divorce (I hope there weren’t any children who would suffer because of it).
It’s good to be honest with yourself (as much as we can be – it is all too easy to deceive ourselves, the Bible says).
Since you have been kind enough to reply, I’m curious as to what you say/think about the time when you were there – do you think you were never a Christian? Or do you view it more as a loss of faith? (obviously, you don’t have to reply).
I have been through some rough situations at the hand of church leaders (pastor committing adultery, another pastor embezzling), but none of that has changed my belief in God’s existence and goodness and holiness. I cannot say that I never doubt anything (after all, I’m human and prone to human weaknesses), but overall, nothing I’ve been through has changed my assurance that He exists, loves me, gave His Son for me, and has adopted me.
I don’t doubt the existence of a higher power. There have been plenty of times that I can sense that something’s happening in the ‘force’ or whatever you want to call it (the Holy Spirit), that is sort of ‘looking out for me.’ I just can’t wrap my head around everything that I was taught to believe, when there is no concrete evidence for it. The original manuscripts of what we call our Bible do not exist. The first Christians did not believe that Jesus was God, although they did believe he was the messiah (in Judaic tradition the messiah did not equal God). They didn’t have any written word for many generations. The gospels don’t agree with each other. The God of the old testament is not a very loving God, in fact he is quite despicably tyrannical. I could go on, but I really don’t want to debate. I totally respect what you believe and your right to your faith. And I don’t think it’s sad that you’ve chosen to believe what you believe! Even though I may doubt it! And I don’t claim to know everything. I just like to really KNOW what I believe. I may find some convincing evidence that will sway me back. Yes, I do acknowledge the power of faith to change lives. Was I a Christian back in Bible College? Yes, of course. I believed what you believe. Today, I believe in what Jesus taught, especially the loving your neighbor as yourself part. I’m just not 100% convinced that what Paul wrote is true. If you look up ‘agnostic’ it’s not that dirty of a word. It’s someone who acknowledges there may be a higher power (which I do), but also believes that while we’re humans on this planet, there’s no way of absolutely knowing for sure that a higher power exists. Thanks for your kind words by the way 🙂
Might I suggest giving this a listen. It addresses the differences in the moralism that is prevelant in American Churchianity -vs- the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It will be worth the time you spend. (it’s no preachy or pushy… no altar calls or anything afterward. )
from New Reformation Press, http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/nrp-freebies/the-gospel-for-those-broken-by-the-church/
Ahhh, it all comes down to the “gay” issue again. Thanks for having the courage to out yourself and be honest with us as the reason you dis Christianity.
^ Troll ^
Thanks for the response.
I am well aware of what agnostic means, both from the origin (“a” meaning “not” and “gnostic” meaning “knowing” – thus, unable to know) and practically; I had an agnostic good friend in college, and we had many discussions. I also think that an agnostic holds a much more logical position than does an atheist (to positively assert that there is no God seems highly arrogant).
Anyway, we agree on somethings (that the original manuscripts are no longer around) and disagree on others (I disagree that the original apostles did not think that Jesus was God). Jewish tradition is not an infallible guide to the truth.
God in His great mercy allowed me to see the great evil that resides within me; the “fun” I had in ruining and destroying things – and for no other reason than the evil delight in destruction. Like Job said “I abhor myself and repent”, and God saved me and changed me. (Well, unlike Job, I didn’t do the sackcloth and ashes part 🙂 ).
Anyway, I hope you find what you need.
Big Gary, once again it shows how hard it usually is to actually have a conversation on this place. Someone disagrees with someone else. Surprise, surprise! But of course, they must be a troll, right. No one would dare disagree with ME?? Anyone who dares to disagree with me just HAS to be a troll. Many homosexuals are mad at Paul and his statements about homosexuality. This poster didn’t explicitly say this, but I can see how she could have a problem with him over the issue.
I am also an agnostic, but I am the kind of agnostic that thinks that the existence or nonexistence of a higher power is an unknowable thing.
Transcendence, (being outside of time and space) is not something that humans can access. All of our experience is filtered through the limits of time and space.
I don’t see doubt as a human weakness. I see it as one of our rare virtues, which like the others we are not prone to practice.
Doubt lets you question lies. Doubt lets you challenge the laziness of authority.
Doubt is your truth and reality meter calling bullshit to abusive and oppressive institutions.
Doubt is a defence against hucksters and con-artists of all stripes.
Doubt most certainly saved me from fundamentalism.
I agree GE&H…I see doubt as a positive thing as well. For all those exact reasons! Doubt makes you open you eyes and think hard about things. People shouldn’t just believe something because it’s what they’ve heard all their lives or that’s what their parents, etc believe, they should really look into why. Would save a lot of people from spiritual manipulation and abuse!
Darrell: I’m wondering if this entry wins as the entry with the most posts.
Er, “comments”, not “posts”
I got to page 500. I must hate myself. 😉 Seriously tho, it’s such a downer. here are some point that some of you might have said already:
1. The double standard. Everyone else must be sweet and smiling but he’s sarcastic and judgmental quite a few times in the manual.
2. Redundancy. Over and over, it’s clean cars, smiles, sweet spirit, no griping, serve the pastor, etc. He keeps bringing up the same points.
3. The Ego. With this, I have written evidence to show people why I think this guy/his church/his college or people like him.
I have no respect for this. from reading this, it sounds less like a church and more like a cult.
When comments reac 600, sell!!
You guys are making this out to be some sort of unique, unheard of, Baptist thing. Why don’t nitpick this guy as much? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/Abercrombie-Fitch-gulfstream-rules-687452
You have missed the detail that the eccentric standards and requests set forth by a company CEO for his employees or hired services is not the same as a “pastor” mandating his personal standards on every one employed by his “ministry”. The CEOs standards do not follow the person home after hours. Nor does the CEO convince others that they will be on trial in some contrived after-life eternal slide show and condemned. The CEO does not claim some ultimate eternal authority to claim veracity to his “standards”.
There is more, but I hope this gets the point across enough for you to “get it”.
It’s equally ridiculous, but Abercrombie & Fitch is not a church (although it is perhaps a religion for some people), so it doesn’t fit in the subject matter of this blog.
I’m sure “HE” must have missed a few points on personal grooming. How about those pesky nose hairs? What might be the proper IFB procedure to remove them? Or wild growing ear hairs? The use of breath mints is fine but how about doing a tongue scrape to remove bacteria and foul odor? Mints only mask the symptoms. I guess that really is a indictment on him as a leader, mask it instead of dealing with the root problems.
To me its so juvenile that people need this kind of order to function in life.
Its not that the people need the orders to function, it’s that Treiber needs to give the orders to feel important.
I was born, grew up, graduated from the schools, attended the college and am a staff kid of NVBC. I have since moved away and no longer attend the church or college. I do have an insight that few have because of my upbringing-in and parents involvement as staff members. Let me make it clear I’m not bitter for my years at NVBC, God had me there for a reason and it gave me a solid, though somewhat skewed, Christian life foundation. After leaving and reflecting back I can say I have a clearer and closer understanding of the teachings of Jesus Christ now, however, than I did back then. Pastor Trieber has been nothing but good, kind and a friend to my family and me. I harbor no ill will at all, he is a generous man.
Now for my opinion as growing-up as an “insider staff kid”. After years of self-reflection, prayer and study I am of the opinion that NVBC is more of a business than a New Testament Church. This is not isolated or unique to NVBC, it is common amongst American IFB churches. They’re run and organized little different than a secular company or corporation. Pastor Trieber is also obsessed with appearance. Whether it is with clothes, cars, the building, carpets, paint, odors, colors, flowers, everything. If you can’t see it, then little to worry. I remember how the roof of the old building used to leak so bad when it rained. Instead of fixing it properly, it was just patched over and over again. Since you can’t see the roof it wasn’t as important as say, stained carpets. Men on the platform must never cross their legs, both feet on the floor at ALL times, only white shirts on Sundays with black, Navy blue or dark gray suits (like the corporate world).
In this staff manual it is very clear (to me anyway) when you see terms like “office policies and procedures”, “ full-time / part-time employees” “employer”, “business manager” “salary” “benefits” “labor laws” “over-time” “seniority” “purchase orders” “supervisor” “staff”, the “church” is a business. These terms are gleaned just from the staff manual. Scratch the surface you will see that the “church” is recognized by the state and the IRS as a corporation – a “non-profit organization”. I can’t count the times I heard Dr. Trieber say how he must “legally” do this or he “legally” can’t do that and every time he said that, he would look at Bro, Zachary to make sure he was “legal”. He is a micromanager of the corporation. This manual bears witness to that. He is a master of using psychology and the Bible to easily control “his sheep”. His preaching is constantly peppered with much of what is in this manual for the staff (he ideally wants “his sheep” to submit in like manner as “his staff”). One just might as well substitute “the business” for “the ministry”. It is “Churchianity, Inc.”. It is an incorporated church, thinly clothed with Christianity.
It is a business and what is the product? It is contemporary dispensational fundamentalism, plain and simple. It’s not contemporary its “old –fashioned”- is the IFB mantra. When an IFB preacher uses the that term it refers to (if he is over 60) when he was a kid, when his parents were kids or at most, to his grandparents day, that’s as far back as it goes. In the entire 2,000 year history of New Testament Christianity, 50-150 years ago, is not “old-fashioned”. It is further obvious because the theology of contemporary fundamentalism is modernistic dispensationalist (what “true” fundy doesn’t have a Schofield Reference Bible?). NVBC like pretty much all of American IFBdom is in the business of “selling” the contemporary dispensational Gospel. Use all the slick tools of marketing like the internet, multimedia and slick printed materials, market it as “old-fashioned”, “bible based”, with the right clothes, music and English Bible and you’re a fundamentalist. You then manage the non-profit corporation based on this manual (available through North Valley Publications a business of North Valley Baptist Church of Santa Clara, Inc.).
Contemporary fundamentalism, Inc. is no different than Talmudic Judaism of Jesus’ day. They were the most devoutly religious of the day, they knew the Mosaic Law better than anyone and believed they lived it the way God intended. They were the fundamentalist of Jesus’ day. It is the “law of fundamentalism”. The rules, standards and convictions are adhered to as a sign of submission to the “man-o-gawd” and the Bible, if one doesn’t confirm, submit and accept the “law of fundamentalism” they are marked as a liberal, worldly, compromiser, carnal, fleshly or a rebel. Virtually one’s entire life is to revolve around “the business” of the Church, not Christ. Christ is subordinate to the business of the church in IFB form of fundamentalism and NVBC is just a reflection of thousands of other little corporate fundamental “churches” around the globe.
And Jesus would lambaste contemporary Disepnsational Fundamentalism just like he did Talmudic Judaism of his day. We are the Pharisees and Saducees.
You then manage the non-profit corporation based on this manual (available through North Valley Publications a business of North Valley Baptist Church of Santa Clara, Inc.).
$40.00 seems a bit steep for a “ministry help”. And I’m sure there are better business manuals available.
I especially like the blurb, “This book is commonly requested by pastors who are seeking additional materials for staff training.” They must be the ones who can’t afford CLA dues.
So glad you do not harbor anger or bitterness as so many young people do who have left NVBC. Happy to hear you are focused on Christ, not on man!
Ex-NVBC member here again, Born There has a clear understanding of Pastor Trieber and how he runs HIS church. Born There is spot-on!
I was bitter for a short time. After I left and would come back to visit, I would experience first hand the religious self-righteousness of some fundamentalists. Their holier than though attitude was enough to make me want to vomit all over them. Their stares and subtle shake of their head (as though they were saying “no”) in judgement, just encouraged me to want to walk out the doors and never come back. It soon past, because they had the problem not me. God has taught me much after I left.
That’s the biggest problem the judgmental glares and airs that they are so much holier. All the while being luke warm in their own lives. It’s enough to make one want to vomit. Oh wait, isn’t that what God said he wanted to do?
When I talk with former classmates / ex-members around my age, that is exactly the biggest pain they suffer – the stares, the almost looks of disgust, how people avoid saying, “Hello” or even a simple smile when they catch someones eye, they feel worthless. That may not and is probably not, the case, but they feel that way. I know I did and sometimes do when I pop in every now and then. There are many sincere and godly Christians there and they treat me just the same, but some, well I best say nothing about them.
My husband and I end up counseling many people who are coming out of fundamentalism. we have a line we always end up saying “God is not out there with a celestial baseball bat waiting to beat you if you step out of line” inevitabley we hear “but it feels like that” what a shame that someone claiming Christ made anyone feel that way by their stares, glances and unkind words.
BT check out Fighting Fundamental Forums. They have links to golden state and north valley. Blessing to you on your journey!
I am a pastor, and I feel sick right now.
Can you share what part is making you sick?
If I had to keep up with all of these expectations and rules for my staff it would be utterly exhausting! Also, why do you hire staff people? Because you believe Jesus called them. . .I think someone motivated by Christ can handle life on their own. Sickness comes from men who think they have the right to rule based on title, position and a suit. I use to play rugby and I would love to meet this guy on the Rugby pitch for an hour.
As a pastor my primary job is to love Jesus and offer the same mercy he gave to me to others.
I am sick because my brother was destroyed by a church like this.
I am sick because nice, kind people are so easily misled.
I am sick because so many good pastors get bad raps from men like this!
Does that answer the question?
Thanks, yes it answers if perfectly
Born-there is right on about NV. Even when I go back once in a long while for some reason, I still feel this awful sense of fear in the presence of Jack T because he sizes you up based on your clothes, cleanliness, facial hair, hair cut, car (model,cleanliness,size,price,color), the way you carry yourself (always with that fake enthusiasm), the phrases you use and don’t use, etc…
Even being free from it all, you know that he knows what he expects and to show up in a way that you know he knows that he disapproves of is seen as a direct disrespect and disappointment to him, so you’re constantly self conscious and worried that something may be out of place because if you grew up there, he conditioned you to long for his approval. Even when you’re out of the system, there can still be that secret desire to please him and it’s haunting. Only running to Christ for approval can cure it!
I remember the chairman of the deacons’ eldest son, who rebelled against the system, would show up once in a while and call him “Jack” to his face fearlessly when he was greeted. I used to think “dude you have some balls!” Trieber would try real hard to keep his smile plastered on when he is being referred to by his first name. Ouch. He knew it rubbed him that way and he didn’t care.
Anyway, I ran into someone who had been a member there for about ten years and they told me that after they left, they had to see a psychiatrist.
O my, to say such a thing to his face, does take a set of attachments no doubt LOL!! Another one I like is the sign above the door as you enter the gym that makes reference to proper attire that only really applies to present and former members. I know EXACTLY what you mean about visiting after you leave, you have this overwhelming concern that you look and act right in order not to offend Pastor Trieber and or the school administration or your parents (if they’re still members). How you look on the outside from head to toe has such an emphasis and is a barometer of your spiritual condition. I am now free of dispensational fundamentalism and am now willfully a bondservant of Christ and not a slave to the law of contemporary fundamentalism. Christ is liberty, fundamentalism is bondage
The comments about pleasing the pastor reminded me of a conversation I had a few months ago with a woman from my old church. She mentioned in an email that she was getting ready to go to church. I thought it was odd, since she was just a Sunday morning attender. When I asked her about it, she said that the MOG was asking everyone to make a special effort to attend the Sunday-Wednesday preaching services of the special evangelist. She implied that the MOG said it encouraged him to see folks come out. I said to myself never again will I attend church under those circumstances. It really bothered me that she said that; it wasn’t all that long ago that I wouldn’t have thought twice about it.
Everyone of us who shed fundyism is at different places in their lives when it comes to tolerating certain things and red flags.
600 comments on this post. (And this was #600) 😆
There needs to be at least 622 comments to equal the pages in his manual!!
That’s a good idea! So here’s my comment to add to the number!
I could write something more insightful had I read the 622 pages, but I just don’t want to remind myself of the burdensome standards imposed on people in the name of Christ and full-time ministry. Just reading it would be crushing to my spirit.
God works in mysterious ways! He is Sovereign and He knows the ‘Jack Triebers’ of this world AND they exsist because He Wills it! What good comes from them, you may ask? How is God Glorified?
I am part of “the remnant” that escaped from this church with their personal relationships with Christ still intact, Praise God! I say “remnant” for the number is small, that now attend churches where there is proper exegesis of scripture(not just one verse read and the rest is a pastor’s opinion, preference, or a myriad of illustrations about his “perfect” family, as is the norm at NVBC). From this remnant, many I know personally, God has raised as Pastors, Pastor’s wives, deacons, teachers, etc. who are glorifying God with their lives lived for Christ and growing in the power of the Gospel.(Rom.1:16,17) There is genuine compassion for those still trapped in IFB churches such as this one, and empathy for those who have left.
We speak of freedom from the standards of man and using the standard of the Bible. But in all of these hate comments, I don’t see anyone talking about dealing biblically with offenses found in Matthew 18-15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
“16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.”
I stumbled upon this website by accident and I am appalled at how much criticism is on here. Remember that with the same criticism that you judge with- it will return to you (Matthew 7).
NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT TALK ABOUT OR MAKE REFERENCE TOWARDS HAVING A GROUP OF PEOPLE TO JUDGE AND HATE PEOPLE SUCH AS PASTOR TRIEBER. CREATING A WEBSITE THAT MOCKS PEOPLE THAT HAVE A SINCERE PASSION FOR GOD IS NOT OF GOD, BUT OF THE DEVIL WHO HAS COME TO STEAL, KILL, AND DESTROY.
You are allowing the devil to STEAL truth from you,
If continued you will allow the devil to kill your relationship with God,
If continued you will allow the devil to destroy your life.
And for those “BORN AND BRED NVBC old members” that found God through the ministries of NVBC- you need to make things right with Bro. Trieber… BIBLICALLY!
Thank you for that excellent example of this: http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2011/05/diversion-tactics-the-confrontation-initiation/
But when is “Brother Trieber” going to make things right with anyone else? Never.
Matthew 18 has to do with individual relationships, not mega-religionists who put it all out there for everyone to judge. The guy actually demands employees Armor-All their tires! I’m not going to go to Benny Hinn and discuss my doctrinal problems with his ministry and the same goes for Trieber and his religion of outward appearance and never-ending sacrificial giving to buy grand pianos.
IFBx pastors like Trieber have made themselves immune to Matt 18 by insulating themselves from criticism and not allowing any dissent.
Even a NVBC deacon could not get past step one in the Matt 18 process…Trieber simply would not allow it.
We were trained to leave quietly, so as not to bump the mannogid off his self-made pedestal.
They are the blind leading the blind into a ditch.
Thank you, Jesus, for leading me out of an abusive IFBx church!
That is a 100% mancentered gospel statement.
“that found God through the ministries of…”
That statement alone elevates the ministries above God himself. It eliminates God from the equation and makes the ministries the “necessary” element in salvation. Yep, that is the Modus operandi of the Independent, Fundamental, Baptist movement.
Thank you for stating the IFB position so clearly.
I wasn’t convinced until you switched to ALL CAPS. At which point I became a quivering puddle of goo, overwhelmed by the rightness of your arguments. Thanks so very much.
We are all very familiar with Matthew 18. I know that many of us have tried to approach such men, and have been utterly rebuffed by them (and by their suck-up henchmen, when we tried to go with two or three).
But thanks for making huge (and false) assumptions about us. That, along with your use of capslock, shows what a wonderfully logical and knowledgeable christian you are.
Maybe you should ponder a spell, and see if the criticism isn’t warranted. Then, you could be appalled about the correct thing.
I am not the least bit fearful of being judged by the same standard that I use to judge other people (Matthew 7:1-2). When I see a control freak who uses his position to spiritually attack others and place them under bondage, I have no problem calling him a wolf in sheep’s clothing. No problem applying the teachings of Jeremiah 23:1-4.
Treiber doesn’t have a sincere passion for God. He has a sincere passion for Treiber. For immaculate cars. For people to be robbed (browbeating them into working extra hours for free) while demanding that they don’t rob him (the term he uses for those who show up five minutes late for work, even though they work late for free). For people to act like they have no brain, spine, or heart of their own; to be his puppets.
I mean, seriously. Have you read his employee manual?
Dear Its In The Bible,
I must agree with Use-To-Be-Fundy&ThatsWhatIt Says,this comes from personal experience….A family member approached Dr.Trieber about using Matt.18 to deal with a sin matter concerning another of their immediate family/NVBC church member, but was told point blank by Dr. Trieber that he does not use Matt.18 in HIS church! Astounding as this may sound, it is straight from (Jack)Hyles-ology. That is UNBIBLICAL,TRAGIC,and unfortunately all too common with too many pastors from that camp. That family member left NVBC, still in sinful disobedience to God’s Word, never confronted biblically as commanded in scripture. TRAGIC!
By their fruits you shall know.
BTW, “ItsintheBible”, what do you think of Trieber’s staff manual?
If you thought it was excessive or wrong, would you be allowed to express that belief? To Trieber?
I grew up in the church that his brother-in-law now pastors in IL, and this sounds like Melvin. It also sounds like how Mark is going. When “Pastor” is mentioned more in the handbook than God and the Bible, there is a serious problem. I didn’t read the whole thing, but my wife and I read quite a bit. It’s amazing the idiocy and hypocrisy that dominates these IFB churches. I don’t know about them, but the Bible is where I get my standards, not the MOG. It’s scary to think that I grew up in this environment, and came out relatively unscathed.
Its getting close to 622 comments….
Praise the Lord you came out from among them unscathed! His Word is Truth & has given you the wisdom/discernment to see their foolishness.
Forty years ago I came to faith in a church that IFB(ible) and fascinated with the teachings of Jack Hyles and Bill Gothard. Thankfully, going away to college and sitting under some sound teaching helped me not to turn into a “fighting fundy.” What is interesting here in Santa Clara County is that most people have never heard of NVBC or Jack Trieber. As big as the church is, they have little sanctifying Christian influence in the overall community. Sad, as this is an area much in need of the love of Christ.
Reaching out to the community with anything other than door knocking and salvation tracks has never been on that church’s agenda. Instead of impacting the overall community by having a “sanctifying Christian influence” with the love of Christ, it works only at making converts and incorporating them into their church culture/community. It strives to isolate it’s members from the community (other than working in it to support oneself)and the church becomes the true community for the member. It does not subscribe to the influencing philosophy you say the area is badly in need of.
“salvation tracts” that is!…There has never been programs to reach out to the poor of the community, food drives, feeding the poor, getting involved with other Christian organizations that help the needy by showing the love of Christ in such endeavors. Involvement in the arts, community events, or anything similar is discouraged and regarded as not ‘coming out from among them’ and ‘be ye separate’.
Seriously? This thread died at 621 comments? Well, here’s the magic 622nd post to tie the number of pages in the Trieberation.
As has been said numerous times, this manual is sickening, and that’s just the formatting errors. The content is terrible. My ministry, me, me, me… I’m sad that people are slaving away for this guy.
here is 623 to break it
Reading a lot of these comments brings this scripture to mind. The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness. Proverbs 15:2
Jesus would be stopped at the door and told to shave first. On second thought, Jesus wouldn’t be found anywhere near this place.
I can’t decide if I feel worse for poor ol Ralph who was the only offender called out by name in the manual (under the don’t confuse your standards with my standards) or Ralph’s wife who supposedly is required by Ralph to be fully dressed, coiffed, and have her war paint fully on before Ralph wakes up.
I’m going to give Ralph the benefit of the doubt that MOG misunderstood. After reading this manifesto, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ralph’s wife just mentioned in women’s Bible study that she likes to be dressed and pretty before her husband Ralph gets up on Sunday morning, so she can get the kids ready. OR Ralph could be a nose breathing troglodyte who runs his family like a Banana Republic dictator. Either would be as easy to believe.
622 pages. 622M me mine and mys. For those who want to get out but feel trapped. God is closest to you when you feel the most alone. He IS there. Staying is just enabling these false prophets and deceiving more of their victims. If you really can’t leave, you can have meaningful discussions with others and help them. Befriend those on the fringes. They need help. (that’s how I endured my time @ BJU)