I had promised prior to my Sri Lanka trip that I would post the entire notes from the Deep South Sword of the Lord Conference.
Here it is in its entirety (PDF). I would say “enjoy” but unless you enjoy watching train wrecks, you probably won’t find this particularly enjoyable either.
123 thoughts on “Field Report From The Deep South Sword of the Lord Conference 2012 (Complete)”
YEEEEHAAAWWWW!!! I have been commenting on SFL for nearly three years. This is my second first.
I would like to thank my family, my friends and my wife for their love and support as I trained for this.
I would also like to thank my sponsor Duct Tape for sticking with me during the lean times and for believing in me.
Awww, I’m fresh out of butt cushions. Sorry. 😉
Missed it by this much…
Only a thirty-minute sermon to kick off the conference?! What’s wrong with these apostates?!!!
And it’s Murfreesboro, TN.
If you already read the previous post about this conference, scroll down to Day Two: Monday for the new material.
Psalm 41:1. We should consider the poor. Liberal preachers believe this means we
should help the poor. Smith believes it says we should only consider the poor. If a
smelly man walks in we ought to scoot over and give him our seat. Nothing more.
I love that Brother-Doctor Smith is making fun of those dirty, filthy liberals for believing that the Bible means what it says.
Just reading the notes on it is sad; I can’t imagine what it sounded like in person. Plus what Shelton Smith was saying about poor people seems to contradict Hamblin’s message that evening about the Philippian jailor where he tells the congregation to really care about people.
“I can’t imagine what it sounded like in person.”
Probably same as in the notes, except carried on much longer and WITH THE VOLUME TURNED UP TO ELEVEN!!!!!
nice hover text
“Dr. Smith says he has baptized a lot of smelly people.”
What an odd thing to say. My husband has baptized a lot of people in his 20 years in the ministry, but I don’t think he’d describe any of them as smelly.
“6. He fires us up.
We need to be zealous of good works. We will want to be in church. The fire will burn inside us and we will want to be there.”
This sort of thing always bothered me because I often did NOT want to be in my particular church but I DID want to live for Jesus. If the pastor is not teaching the Word and there are no outlets for truly reaching the needy, Christians may very well NOT want to be at that particular church.
Serious question that some pastors need to ask themselves: When there is a Christian who loves Lord and wants nothing more then to live for Him, but doesn’t like being a part of “my” church, is the problem really that Christian?
I’m reading the description of the passionate diatribe against liquor in the second Monday night sermon; I wish this much fervor had been poured into his point about Jesus completely freeing us from the penalty of our sin. THAT is the good news of the Gospel, yet is it what is emphasized?
Remember Billy Sunday (hollered about many times at this conference) used to preach against Demon Rum to the point he would often never mention Christ.
Temperance (i.e. Prohibition) was THE big Christian Culture War Crusade of his time. (One which Christians(TM) won from 1919 to 1933.) Sunday was probably a recovering alcoholic whose mind made the jump from “I have this problem” to “Everyone else must have the same problem.”
Which might explain the odd confluence of fundy screaming against sex and fundy burying of sex scandals all at once…
and boom goes the dynamite.
This is why the facist female mod on a fundy site banned me for referring to these preachers who are obsessed with women’s clothing as the main issue as “the dirty old men of fundamentalism”
I must have hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that.
Someone very wise once said, “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.” Where is our focus? On rules? Versions? Music? Or Jesus?
“Music should not make you shout”?
Jer. 31:7 – “For thus says the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: proclaim, give praise, and say, O LORD, save your people, the remnant of Israel.”
Zeph. 3:14 – “Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart.”
Ironically, right after this, the speaker said, “A God called preacher knows he is supposed to preach the Bible.”
They SAY they are preaching the Bible, but they are NOT.
From the rant about the wedding:
“Jesus was not a bartender”.
I heard that exact same thing many times in my fundy church. Well at least he mentioned Jesus. Right?
Let me guess — Water into Welch’s?
True, but Jesus would certainly have been a good one, willing to listen and to speak up when some poor sot needed it. Of course He would have pointed out that the tab for The Living Water could be rather high, but so worth it.
“There’s no one in the place, ‘cept You and me…”
Bless their little hearts, they do love to go on about alcohol. I have heard that quote many, many times. I love how those preachers just get to preaching the word of gid that way. 🙄
You’re not going to be on staff for long. The staff member whose wife missed Sun – Tues will be fired. Why on earth you would want to stay is a mystery, but you won’t have to worry about it much longer.
It’s already been mentioned that the person who submitted this already left the church, genius. 🙄
But, good job on re-confirming what we all already knew about the fundy attitude of (attempted) revenge against those who dare to not agree. Stunning testimony for Christ you have there.
I was struck by the man-worship! (again)! You have a hundred or more folks looking to you to bring a message from God’s word, and you feel the need to take the time to mention Billy Sunday, John R. Rice or a slew of other sinful men! This is not unique to Fundyism, but I think they may hold the patent.
Something did, however, jump out at me, and that is when you said the speaker came to Titus 2:11, and then went on a calvin tirade, you didn’t really go in to any depth about what the “tirade” consisted of, but clearly this is a verse (along with hundreds of others) that destroy the man-made teaching of calvinism. This strikes at two of the drooping petals. (L) Limited Atonement and (U) unconditional election, neither of which have ANY truth about them, and cannot be proven from the Scriptures!
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL men” Titus 2:11 How many men? ALL
How many men does Jesus light:
“The true light that gives light to EVERY man was coming into the world.” John 1:9…….Are you telling me that Jesus “gives light to EVERY man?” No I’m telling you that God said that, through His Apostle John!!
Jesus spoke of His crucifixion and said this “But, I when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men to myself.” But Jesus, “limited atonement” says that your death is substitutionary for just a few, certain specified sinners!
I’m scared Jesus! Calvin, Piper, Macarthur, and Don are pretty good speakers and they say things that on one hand seem to be intelligent,but also seemed to be contradictory to what you say? So please tell us plainly. Did your atoning sacrifice at Calvary, atone for everyone’s sins, or just a select few? ……….”He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2..WOW, thanks Lord, that’s about as plain as it gets, but how do I know that some folks are going to read this and change your words around?
Alot of talk about “who” and “if” we can choose you Lord, so can wicked sinful men “choose” you?…. Did I give the angels in heaven free will to choose? Did I give Adam and Eve a chance to CHOOSE? Btw notice that narrative, when Adam and Eve made the wrong CHOICE they died spiritually, but they certainly could still hear from God, and God could from them, unlike the teaching of a popular, man-made theolgy that says that men are “dead” and can’t hear God or communicate with Him at all! God is a God of choices, if God pre-selected some robots to one day call on Him and trust Him, that certainly isn’t “for whosoever wills.” You mean that we can truly CHOOSE you God?………..Jesus said “If anyone CHOOSES to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” John7:17
“The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but EVERYONE to come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9…..(I believe it just as it is written!)
“This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants ALL men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for ALL men – the testimony given in its proper time.” 1 Timothy 2:3-6……..Jesus gave himself a ransom for ALL men, pls argue anything but pls don’t tell me that Jesus died for only a select few, that irritates me badly! He gave Himself a ransom for ALL men!
I could do this all day! How anyone can believe in a sinful man’s theology is beyond this ol country boy’s imagination. I’ll finish this with an invitation, and let me say I implicitly agree with all of it!
“The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.” Rev 22:17
Please trust God, not man………..me included!!
Miss the point?
….Each one of us who sins with his own free will, chooses punishment. So the blame lies with him who chooses. God is without blame……..Clemnent of Alexandria…….195 AD
….Each one of us who sins with his own free will, chooses punishment. So the blame lies with him who chooses. God is without blame……..Clement of Alexandria…….195 AD
Is that you, Greg, quoting a mere man? 😀
Yes, as a matter of fact, I did it twice, did it twice, did it twice! 😀
You often hear the calvinists say how orthodox their beliefs are, when in fact, it’s very difficult to find any early church fathers that espouse calvinistic beliefs, before the Council of Nicaea, except the occasional gnostic. Even Augustine himself believed in “free will” in the beginning!
…I find, then, that man was constituted free by God. He was a master of his own will and power…for a man would not be imposed upon one who didn’t have it in his power to render that obedience which is due to law. Nor again, would the penalty of death be threatened against sin, If a contempt of the law were impossible to man in the liberty of his will…man is free, with a will either for obedience or resistance….Tertullian 207 AD
(again for purposes of demonstrating the fallacy that the calvinists often espouse that their beliefs are so orthodox!)
“Ignatius, who is also called Theophorus, to the Church which is at Ephesus, in Asia, deservedly most happy, being blessed in the greatness and fulness of God the Father, and predestinated before the beginning of time, that it should be always for an enduring and unchangeable glory, being united and elected through the true passion by the will of God the Father, and of our Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour…”
Or do you want another Church Father? Clement? Justin? Ireneaus? Origen? Tertullian?
Both sides have their merits and arguments.
-Am I a determinist? Absolutely.
-Do I believe in free will? Absolutely.
-Do I think people are heretical because they happen to land on one side or the other? Not even a little bit.
It also doesn’t change the fact that you have a Pavlov response when it comes to about 3 different topics. 😀
Maybe it’s because I’m onto something…..like the truth!!
I honestly can’t remember what he said during his tirade. I think he just bashed Calvinists in general nothing specific, and I really can’t remember him even reading that verse at all during the sermon. Trust me I don’t believe in Calvinism any more that most of what these two said during the conference. If it ain’t in the book then it ain’t so as far as I’m concerned no matter how much you twist the scriptures to justify your personal agenda. He said you can’t spend ten years on an island and come out a Calvinist, well I don’t think you could spend ten years on an island and come out a fundamentalist either!!!! 😀
I completely agree! 😀
Oh, brother. Can we not bash Christians outright? Y’all are throwing one of the most evangelistic preachers of all time, Spurgeon, under the bus, not to mention the fathers of the modern missions movement, Carey and Judson, who stood up to the ugly racism and xenophobia of their time to boldly proclaim the gospel to thousands. All three were Calvinist — five-pointers, to be exact.
And, FWIW, I did become Reformed with no influence but the Scriptures, especially Ephesians. I won’t be answering any further, “Well what about _____!?”-type replies because I think anonymous online forums are a particularly bad place for such discussions, but please, we are all in the same family. Have a spirit of charity toward Calvinists even if you don’t understand why they believe what they do. They are convinced it is the most biblical view, or they wouldn’t hold it. Please respect that, for the sake of the unity of the body of Christ.
T’was Grace that taught…
my heart to fear.
Thank you for saying this, AtticWife. The Calvinists I know are truly trying to understand God’s Word. For every verse on free will, one can find another verse on sovereignty. We need to disagree with charity without assuming the worst motives of people who don’t share our positions.
I’m not here to bash Calvinist, Christians, Catholics, Lutherans, or any other denomination. I’m sorry if you took my comments as doing such, just because I stated I don’t believe as they do. I just believe that over time man has twisted scriptures to support their agenda. My intention was not to put anyone down just because I don’t fully agree with them.
Attic Wife – So YOU play the “my preachers are better than your preachers” card. YOU tell us why YOU became a calvinist, but will not answer any questions about that! YOU tell us how YOU think posting such discussions on an anonymous forum is bad, but clearly it didn’t stop YOU from posting YOUR pro-calvinistic comment! Then YOU assume that I don’t know what calvinism teaches, but didn’t show not even one mistake I made.
AW – Your post is as fundy-like as any I have seen in the blog recently.
I stand against the man-made false doctrines of calvinism, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth! I stand on the word of God alone! I need no man to back me, I seek no support of anyone but the blessed Word of Scripture and the Holy Ghost.
Hi Greg, my brother. I didn’t say you didn’t understand Calvinistm (although what you said above about Calvinism doesn’t represent the beliefs of any Calvinist I know), I merely said that you don’t understand why they believe what they do, which you yourself affirmed. I simply wanted to emphasize that Calvinists believe their doctrines *are* Biblical. I’m not trying to play “my preacher trumps yours” — in fact, I will heartily defend anyone who preaches the gospel, Calvinist or not, I’m just asking that you do the same.
I’m not afraid to answer questions about Calvinism. Far from it! I love talking about the doctrines of Grace that are so dear to me and that I believe sing out from every page of Scripture. I simply think this is usually the wrong place to have this discussion, brother. If we were sitting down together over a cup of coffee, I’d be happy to answer any of your questions — in fact, I’d love to answer any questions that anyone has if they’re asked of me genuinely as a sister in Christ rather than in a challenging, “Well, what about _____?!” way.
Please note that I’m not shouting nor calling my brethren’s beliefs “false doctrines.” I’m not name-calling. In fact, I’m not upset in the slightest. We have a common enemy, and he doesn’t have skin on, as my dad used to say.
People are surprised to learn that great missionaries [Wm. Carey], hymn writers [A Toplady], preachers [Geo. Whitefield], writers [J.C Ryle] etc. have found their home in the [so-called] Calvinist camp.
For myself, I’m surprised at how many expert opponents of Reformed theology have never read Calvin’s Institutes, Luther’s Bondage or the Will, or the three forms of unity.
I cast in my lot with the Reformed faith [Calvinism is (in my opinion) a misnomer] about 100 years ago while I was a student in a Wesleyan High School.
Attic Wife/Christian Socialists – It never ceases to amaze me how supporters of the man-made sytem of belief known as calvinism, constantly point to sinful men, from the past, that fell for this false doctrine. And then just as CS does, try to get you to read some book or watch a video about it, to explain it to you! (makes MacArthur and Piper happy, becuause it makes em tons of money!) Why don’t they try to support their beliefs with the Holy Bible? Shall I answer for you? Because these foolish beliefs cannot be proven from the Scriptures!
I cast my lot with John the Baptist, the Apostles, and Jesus Christ, for anyone to do otherwise, that claims the name of Christ, befuddles me.
People bring up the names of these men from the past because they’re being falsely accused of not trusting Christ or contradicting the Scripture and they want to show that respected pastors and missionaries have also held those doctrines.
I flat out cannot make sense of it. I understand and love every verse you post about God’s love for us and His call to us to repent and call upon His Name. But I cannot discount verses like Romans 9:22, 1 Peter 2:8, and others.
There are verses that tell us to choose, and there are verses that say without God’s Spirit calling us and bringing us to life, we are helpless and that as sinful humans we would choose sin, verses like Romans 8:7, “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.”
Those opposed to Calvinism should share the reasons for their position openly, but to characterize Calvinists as “unBiblical” is unfair and untrue. We are all just human beings trying to comprehend Scriptures.
“Why don’t they try to support their beliefs with the Holy Bible? Shall I answer for you? Because these foolish beliefs cannot be proven from the Scriptures!”
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:12-13 ESV)
“I cast my lot with John the Baptist…”
You’re OT Jewish?
As I see it, better replies have some relevance to original posts; in this case that is the report on a conference, which made but a passing allusion to so-called ‘Calvinism.’
Those who leave the ‘IFB’ movement don’t land all in the same place. God leads us differently. Some leave the ‘IFB’ movement altogether; others leave only the ‘F’ but not the ‘I’ or the ‘B.’
It is one thing to share something of our respective stories; it is a very different matter to demand one ‘exit-“F”‘ door over other exits.
Many need desperately examples of a positive, ‘ex-F’ community that escaped the abusive, exclusivist cult-like hegemony of the movement. In my opinion, contributions should seek to develop that community.
Anonymous Brave Soul has stated no desire to become embroiled in these matters. By respecting that, we respect Darrell’s work also.
There are places where your concerns are admirably addressed. I’m not sure that this forum is the place for that work.
1Co 1:12; 3:4; Rom 14:1.
#1 reason I’m not an Arminian? All the major heresies and insane cults are on that side of the fence. No thank you.
That’s what happens when man is elevated above God and it is made out to be that God’s will and purpose is merely reactionaly to the will and choices of man.
We would do well to remember who God is. Who it is that is dealing with us and our reverent response to him as found in Genesis 17:1-3, “When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless, that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly.” Then Abram fell on his face.”
Sorry, after reading about the first two paragraphs of this I…just…can’t…..read…….anymore 😯
Sure Darrell, but when are you going to post the ENTIRE field report?
he’s too chicken.
Nobody calls Darrell chicken! 😆
Ok, I read it.
Winter soul destroying love.
I want my life back.
From reading this “Sword of the Lord” field report, I gather that the essence of being a Christian consists of the following:
1) Be “Bible saved” (whatever that means)
2) Go to church for every single service available
3) Don’t drink liquor
4) Don’t listen to liberals or liberal preachers
5) Never complain about anything bad in your life
6) Read/use only the KJV Bible
7) “Win souls” – go out and get people to church
8) Don’t play chess with the Devil; you’ll lose
9) Remember that the Devil is everywhere & powerful
10) Smile! Smile! Smile!
^ This is what I found after a lifetime in the IFB. While they can discuss grace and Gospel, it seems that their passion and focus aren’t there but rather on external standards like the ones you list here.
Now that you understand that how about getting off the internet and go soul-winning.
1. Be “Bible” saved: Uncritically accept whatever the preacher tells you the Bible says, and only what he tells you. Read only the parts he tells you to read.
2. Be in church whenever the doors are open: Show the preacher that he (not God) has first claim on your self, your time and your possessions.
3. Don’t drink liquor: Because Billy Sunday. Or demons. Or something. SHUT UP IT WAS TOTALLY GRAPE JUICE.
4. Don’t listen to liberals or liberal preachers: Allowing your faith to inform your politics is wishy-washy and worldly. No, no, you must allow your politics to inform your faith. Also, every single politician or historical figure we approve of believes/believed just like us and if the news or your history book or the person’s own words written down in black and white say otherwise then it’s the fault of the liberal media conspiracy.
5. Never complain about anything bad in your life: Because our Gospel boils down to “Say this prayer and be happy forever.” So if you aren’t happy, you make us look bad. Also your cooties might be catching.
6. Read/use only the KJV Bible: Because if you can’t figure out what it says, you have to rely on the preacher.
7. “Win souls,” because that’s what Jesus is going to ask you about on the Last Day. “Even as you pushed another tract or shouted through a bullhorn at the least of these,” he’ll say, “you did it to me.”
8. Don’t play chess with the Devil–Okay, I’m stumped, I have no idea what that means!
9. Remember that the Devil is everywhere & powerful: Because if you are scared enough of everything outside your tiny congregation, then you’ll cling ever more closely to the preacher.
10. Smile! Smile! Smile! Or be crapped on. Your choice.
“6. Read/use only the KJV Bible: Because if you can’t figure out what it says, you have to rely on the preacher.”
A co-worker of mine was distraught when her fundy pastor fell morally and left the ministry. Her main reason? “I don’t understand the King James Bible, and he was the one who explained it to me!”
I begged her to get a version of the Bible that she could understand herself.
Well, I can definitely promise I won’t play chess with the Devil, but is draw poker okay? 😛
Waitaminute…whoever the author of this article is, their opening paragraph really spoils it.
If they were ethical, they would politley leave Lighthouse Baptist CHurch and not dishonestly stay on staff as a hireling.
Whatever sour grapes they have are tainted even further by this and really ruins the rest of their report.
To describe it as “fun” to do so really portrays it as what it is.
I think they have left.
They said they were still there as it was being written…currently on staff.
Quote/2nd sentence “I am currently on staff at Lighthouse Baptist Church”
Followed by “I cannot tell you in what position I serve in order to hopefully protect my identity”
“while I’m there I might as well have some fun”
..all first [paragraph.
Nothing personal, but you can’t open your own paragraph with a logical fallacy and expect anyone to take you seriously, either…
…and what “logical fallacy” is that? 😐
“If they were ethical, they would”…this is the either/or fallacy. You have no way of knowing or establishing what the ethical response is or should be.
Hirelings are NOT shepherds! I can almost see this disloyal dog, giggling as the preaching was going on. This is the kind of stuff that makes me so mad. Usually when these great men pray, since I have already spent time praying for the meeting, I will look around at the staff to see if they have their eyes closed. I keep a chart on my iPad of the ones that I feel display disloyal tendencies toward my shepherd, and gosh, knock me over with a feather one name appears time after time…anonymous brave soul.
I intentionally eavesdropped on this one in the foyer by the welcome center…well, me and the shepherd will have vengeance. I believe that revenge is something we are supposed to hand out to those against the fundamentals of the faith, and articles of order in the local,new testament, kjv only,red hot preaching, fire tried standards, convictions based upon those who carried the torch and laid the landmarks, yes I do mean dl moody, surgeon, Hamlin, smith, Tewell, and Schaap before he fell.
You obviously worship men and have a pathetic god if he needs you and your ilk (You know what that is?) to protect him and exact his vengeance. It’s time you grew up, quit parroting Daddy, and read God’s word, not man’s word. Or at least read after men who respect God’s word and don’t twist it for personal gain and glory.
I would recommend you read Humility: True Greatness by C. J. Mahaney. I realize he isn’t a Fundamentalist by your standards, but then, neither were many of the old heroes you worship at the feet of. I may not agree with all of his doctrine, or everything in the book, but at least Mahaney uses scripture in context. Your pride as one of the only prayed up, spiritual people in your church is either misplaced, or the church is a pathetic group of baby Christians. You need to repent to God and remember HE is the Sovereign Savior, not Papa Tewell.
If a person wishes to learn humility, I recommend they read someone other than C.J. Mahaney.
“Sarcasm, thy name is Poe.”
specifically: “Andy, thy name is Poe.” 😆
Shepherds are not God. You are a small minded, petty, heartless bastard filled with bitterness and hate.
“…when these great men pray, since I have already spent time praying for the meeting, I will look around at the staff to see if they have their eyes closed. I keep a chart on my iPad of the ones that I feel display disloyal tendencies toward my shepherd…”
Are you kidding? While people are bowing before God in prayer, you take it upon yourself to not only check out if someone’s eyes are closed, but also to keep a list on your iPad of those whose eyes are open? (Aren’t yours open? Perhaps those staff members also spent much time in prayer – just saying’.)
Who do you think you are, anyway?
Your hubris is astounding.
Proverbs 16:18 – I wonder if you’ve memorized it?
Come on, this can’t be real.
Will the real Andrew Tewell please stand up?
Dear Mr. Tewell,
How could you even began to be so arrogant to say that you are “all prayed up” Scripture please! Paul says to pray without ceasing.
God did not appoint you or anyone to check up on anyones praying.
We will all stand before God for our own actions. You included.
We should never be loyal to a man,a church, denomination,or a school. We should only be loyal to the Word of God.
How about some scripture on your revenge theory. I believe that God has said that vengence was His. This additude shows one of a person who is afaid of losing his man made Empire.
The earthquake that demolished San Francisco was in 1906. “Victory in Jesus” was written in 1939.
Are you implying fundy pulpit embellishment? 😆
This conference was a blessing!
Well, bless your heart.
If by conference you mean shouting match, and if by blessing you mean steaming pile of …
I mean this conference was the best that we have to offer!!!
Whoever posted this twist on it, needs to repent to my dad!
Repent to your Dad?!? He’s not God. You might feel like someone needs to apologize to your Dad, but not repent to him!!!
Well our best we have to offer God is never good enough,……just sayin’
Dear Anonymous Brave Soul:
Among other things, I listen to sermons to hear who God is, what God is like, and how this draws me into fellowship. So if a message doesn’t hold forth some or another attribute of God, demonstrate how this is at work in the text as God deals with humankind, I get precious little out of a message. Yes, I do listen for other things; but this one is a biggie.
If the work where you are is this sub-Christian, perhaps we should start praying that the Lord will lead you to service in another corner of the vineyard.
Again, thank you for your perseverance.
Thankfully the Lord has relieved me of my duties at this church. Most people will ask how I endured so long and why I didn’t leave sooner on my own, but God had a lesson for me to learn and now its time for him to move me to the next assignment.
Dear Anonymous Brave Soul:
This must be an Is 65:24 thing! I trust that for your part, you were able to leave on terms as good as possible.
Your statement bespeaks uncommon maturity, wisdom and integrity. The Lord bless you and prosper you in your new calling.
Yeah, you are gone. I knew I would find your identity! My dad and I do not tolerate disloyalty!
It is like we say in staff meetings, “be sure your sins will find you out.” I would always make sure to look every one of the guys in the eye whenever he would say that, and watch to see who would break eye contact with him. This is always telling,because if the sheep don’t keep his eye on the shepherd, than he is on his way off the mountain.
Read Isaiah anonymous, it has you all over it.
Your notes on Hamlin,do not do him justice. Dad trained this man of God, and in turn was trained by him, and they continue to train each other daily. I hope I can only be like them one day, only just train myself.
Listening to sermons, I mean truly listening to sermons is where you develop loyalty to your shepherd, fear of him, and God. Proper attitudes towards serving, and ultimately alliance with fundamental world views. Too bad your notes don’t show these things…I would say good job on those at least, and yes you do need to repent to him… Psalms 23 fills that void nicely.
Wow – there is so much anger in these comments.
Psalm 23? How does this Psalm apply to any disloyalty to your father? Your father isn’t the Shepherd of the Psalm, the Lord is.
Fear? The people of your congregation and on staff are supposed to fear your father? Why?
Breaking eye contact with him in a staff meeting? This is a sign of disloyalty and sin?
I understand loving your father and feeling loyalty to him. But to put him in the place of God is idolatry – no matter who you are or who he is.
Wow, Andy–mind if I call you Andy? I hardly know where to begin, whether with your bitter spirit or with your skewing of Scripture, but let me say that if you’re wanting to become like Hamblin, you’re well on your way.
Let me take this, “Listening to sermons, I mean truly listening to sermons is where you develop loyalty to your shepherd, fear of him, and God.”
Everything I need to know about your ministry is revealed right here–there are no good reasons why you would exalt a pastor above the Word of God, which is where the fear of God is to be developed. Then again, you emphasize “alliance with fundamental worldviews” as the ultimate goal, not Biblical ones.
Ultimately, though, I’d like to thank you for stopping by–if any of us had any doubts about the veracity of your departed staff member’s account, I think you’ve confirmed them in a resounding fashion.
May God have mercy on your soul.
Even if this is a Poe this is truly one UNGODLY comment. Celebrating in another’s tragedy is as devilish behavior as it gets.
Nice reference to the former posting of Treiber’s claim to be the Shepherd in Psalm 23.
Dear Andrew Tewell:
I’ve no idea who you are, but if you are who you say you are, should you not have spoken to Anonymous Brave Soul real time? Don’t you know that your rant could seriously impair your status in this church? Have you no idea to what extent that infantile outburst damages your personal credibility?
Eye-contact! When did good poker skills become a ministry asset?
Training! Where does your screed evidence a disciplined mind?
Preaching! Why prefer Dad or Hamilin over John Chrysostom?
Truly listening! This comes last – since the last thing faith hucksters want is Biblically literate and dedicated listeners. ‘… truly listening to sermons … is where …’ Thus is the Accuser’s trap set for attacking God’s flock! After all, we all know that anyone who truly listens will agree with the faith huckster. We are not permitted to hold differing thoughts in good faith, since God’s Spirit would never lead anyone in a way the huckster doesn’t decree. Thus obedience to the Spirit and loyalty to the charlatan’s outfit become one and indivisible. Don’t they, Mr. Tewell. When one arrives at conclusions differing from the charlatan, the charlatan assumes the Accuser’s role and rules by fiat that, ‘since you disagree, it is obvious that you do not listen.’ Mr. Tewell, we are not ignorant of Satan’s devices [2Co 2:11].
But there is more.
Those who truly listen quite often conclude that these ‘sermons’ are false and pharisaic rants by slothful stewards who inform the ignorant that they alone hold and dispense the oracles of God, which they do for their own enrichment. Those who truly listen recognize when no meaningful exegesis accompanies the text. Those who truly listen know whether or not the claims of the life, death and resurrection of Christ are laid directly against the presumptions of culture – including the practitioners of false and pharisaic religion. Those who truly listen first recognize and then repudiate utterly the blasphemous, Gnostic heresy, the seditious façade, the masquerade which too often passes muster as ‘good preaching’ in so-called Bible believing churches.
If you are who you say, you earn no stature hiding cravenly behind the blessed anonymity of the world-wide-web as you cast scurrilous accusations at Anonymous Brave Soul, who shows more intelligence, education, dignity, grace and devotion to God’s work than you. My guess is that Anonymous Brave Soul left precisely as [s]he did because of a desire to act with grace and dignity. And this is your reply?!?!
If you are who you say you are, Mr. Tewell, you display as a weak, cowering, vacillating, shivering, impotent, pusillanimous little weasel. Perhaps you lack the intelligence to perceive, the integrity to admit, or the interest to redress this, but from what I’m seeing, everything about you is indicative of weakness. If I knew you, I would find your very presence contemptible.
Can you offer one compelling reason for which we ought not to conclude that you are a charlatan and a blight on God’s kingdom?
Man up to what you have done. Your words reek of insolence toward towards a former staff member who left with more grace than you care to recognize. Show us your repentance of Gnostic heresy! Then come and lecture us on proper attitudes toward serving and world-view issues. As it is, I suggest that you be gone from this place. The more you post here, the more apt members are to recognize you.
I am increasingly inclined to believe that the church in North America will not move forward unless or until charlatans, traitors, racketeers and narcissists are purged and banished from pulpits far and wide.
I read the report; I have been invited to hear John Hamblin speak in the upcoming months… I wonder if he will repeat any of these messages? I need to jot down the outline, and impress all those around me.
But I’m not sure I want to go; I don’t take kindly to manipulative “invitations” (at our current church, when there is an invitation, the pastor merely states that the altar is available should anyone choose to use it). I could probably deal with the screaming, but the non-Bible preaching would bug me.
Maybe I should do a report for SFL!
Dear Guilt Ridden:
I could be wrong about this, but I’m fairly sure that you DON’T want to go. You could point out that your church alter is available should you ever need it.
PS: As an aside, you could always print off the pdf notes from one of the sessions, give it to those who invite you, and explain that you’ve already done penance enough … [ducks for incoming projectiles].
Thanks; I’m still thinking about giving a report on the preaching for the “benefit” of the family here. Consider it payment for all of the enjoyment and uplift I’ve received from some of the posts.
It would be so neat if he repeats one of the messages here!
By all means, go. At least one of the messages struck me as being eerily familiar to a message I heard Hamblin preach five years ago. Hey, he’s into recycling. . .
PW-Wow, it comes to this, my favorite all-time SFL poster, picking at me 😀
To be honest, I have been concerned for you, because I have seen, what I perceive, changes in you over the last two years, and unfortunately not for the better! (normally wouldn’t openly criticize someone I respect as much you, but that seems to be the way it’s headed, with you having done so to me)
You don’t usually do what you do here, and that is interpret something very wrong that I have said. I did not characterize “Calvinists” as unbiblical! I characterized their man-made belief system as untrue and unbiblical! Because it is! I think this is a major distinction. One statement is opposed to a man-made,false theology/philosphy, the other is an attack on people! The doctrine of calvinism is completely wrong and unbiblical! It cannot be proven from the Scriptures,that’s why they must point you to “other” books and men! But any calvinist that calls upon the Lord for salvation, and believes on Him, is most certainly as saved as I am. God requires no one’s doctrine to be completely correct in order to save them! Heck, maybe my doctrine’s is not 100% correct!! But the big difference with me and the calvinists is that my theology comes from the Scriptures only!
Let’s look at the pentecostals. I play music at many of their churches, a more genuine, loving, sincere, and praising-God bunch of people would be hard to find! And yet they have perhaps the most shallow, works-oriented faith of any of the large denominations. They are relying on works for their salvation, nothing could be biblically further from the truth, and yet, even though they are all messed-up on their theology, and believe they gotta hold out faithful to the end (scripture misused) doesn’t mean their innacurate, false beliefs, are going to keep them out of Heaven if they have given their hearts to Him and have “called” on the Lord for salvation!
Lastly, I’m shocked at the wonderful verses that you have a hard time with, apparently thinking that they in some way support the false beliefs of calvinism!
You really don’t get it do you???
Everyone knows how where you stand when it comes to the belief of God’s sovereignty in man’s salvation. All people are saying is you can stop now and quit whipping the horse. It’s dead.
You believe in Arminianism. Fine. I recognize and respect the Bible study(ies) that you have done that have brought you to your conclusions.
I believe in God’s sovereign election of sinners(i.e. Calvinism). I came to that conclusion by doing the same thing that you did. I studied my Bible. To makes absurd and offensive statements that “Calvinists” beliefs as “untrue and un-Biblical” is a gross exaggeration and completely wrong.
I’ve never bothered replying to you before because I frankly haven’t seen the need to waste my energy, but your criticism of Pastor’s Wife is unwarranted and out of line. By saying that you have “perceived changes, and not for the better” you have just become the determiner of her sanctification. And with that, welcome back to hard core IFB fundamentalism. You have just appointed yourself as the “One” who gets “it” and now has the ability to judge others motives, minds, and journeys in grace.
You should have stuck with just the line, “maybe my doctrine’s (sic) is not 100% correct”. No one else around is claiming that they have it all figured out, but the vast majority of us do solidify our beliefs in the Bible. Just because we all don’t come to the same exact conclusion as you doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re the ones who are wrong.
Just let it go.
You also have to like how greg said that “maybe” he’s not right on everything.
I KNOW I’m not right on everything I believe even if I don’t know what areas I’m wrong on…and that’s only talking about the things where my final answer isn’t “no idea”.
You are really the one that doesn’t get it, do you!
This comment of yours is so graceless and fundy, but you can’t see that!
1) I’ll quit whipping the dead horse when I decide I want to, or Darrell throws me off! I generally say nothing until the subject is brought up by someone else, as is the case with this blog posting. (you don’t control content on this site)
2) I emphatically do not believe in Armininiasm, leading me to believe that you do not read my posts or know what I believe, but it does encourage me to keep posting the truth, to make it clear to folks! 😀
3) You may believe anything you wish. But don’t you realize when you say (and it’s painful to even type it) that you believe in “God’s sovereign election of sinners,” you are being offensive to me! But much more importantly to God “who wants ALL men to be saved”?
4) And now I am the determiner of PW’s sanctification!! WOW…so which false reformed preacher’s book did you get that little nugget from! I expressed a personal opinion! That is all, don’t make more of it than it is. Just like you want to tear into that verse above that tells us EXACTLY what Almighty God wants, but we just don’t really get it do we? It must mean alittle something else, right? 😆
YOU are the one who is putting YOURSELF up as being the “ONE” who gets “it” and has the ability to judge others (mine) motives, mind and journeys in grace! If anyone here is acting as a hard-core fundy, it’s you!
You should have just stuck with the line, “I’ve never bothered replying to you before…”
Just let it go,
To anyone following this. You may believe anything you want but “God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance” Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation?…. Some man may tell you that you need to be a pre-select to get to heaven, but if that is the case then why are we warned not to “neglect” it! (for Eric-How can you neglect salvation, when you’ve been pre-selected for it?)
One last thing, who is following and telling YOU to follow God and His word only for truth and light? How could that possibly be wrong? And who is recommending a wicked Dutch Presbyterian for truth and light!
*Sigh* Why did I even bother? Let me know when you decide to be coherent. 😐
*Sigh* If you can’t stand the heat…..
I in no way deny any of the verses that you have referenced in your posts. However, when I look at them in the context of Scripture and reference than the many other verses in Scripture that speak of God’s choosing us (John 13:18, John 15:16, 19, Acts 18:9-10, Romans 9:16, etc), I believe that the Bible teaches God’s sovereignty over all things, including my salvation. (If you want to believe that you chose God for salvation, I’m seriously OK with that.) Granted, when we read “I desire all men to be saved” and “you did not choose me, but I have chosen you” this creates a definite tension in who, God or us, plays what role in salvation. I’m OK with that tension. I don’t believe that anyone can ever fully understand the full mystery of salvation this side of eternity, if even then. But I would argue what doctrine or attribute of God do any of us fully understand? None.
All I have stated is that I believe in a God big enough to have sovereignly saved me while allowing me “freedom” and you believe in God granting man more freedom than God. You have your Biblical reasons for believing what you do and so do I. But your continued claims that mine, and others, beliefs are not based on Scripture and only on the words of sinful men is completely false.
So you have thrown Scripture after Scripture out basically asking me “what do you do about this?” I ask you the same thing. How do you interpret Ephesians 1:3-14? How do you explain Romans 9? What does it mean to be “elect” and how do you deal with the words importance throughout the New Testament as a title of warm greeting?
One last thing, what does ” And who is recommending a wicked Dutch Presbyterian for truth and light!” this even mean??? I have referred to no man, much less a Dutch Presbyterian.
And, at the risk of repeating myself:
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:12-13 ESV)
(I noticed greg ignored the previous post. Hmm….)
Yes. Also, James 1:17-18 “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
My point that Greg has seemed to miss is that I object not with his beliefs, but rather his continued statements that my beliefs and others are not founded on the Bible. Greg and I don’t agree, but I’m not going around stating that his beliefs are “untrue”, “unBiblical” or “man-made”. I recognize that his beliefs are taken from Scripture even if I disagree with his conclusions. It would be nice if he could at least be as gracious.
By the time a dead man in sin “chooses Christ” God has regenerated Him.
Because if we can choose while still in a sinful state, then we can un-choose and that makes man in charge. And THAT is a problem ❗
Agreed. However, I would simplify it by saying, “if we can choose while still in sinful state that makes man in charge.” And THAT is a problem!
To paraphrase Sproul, “I’m free. God is free. When my freedom rubs against God’s freedom I lose.”
Eric – I like your tone much better this time.
I got my false theology “Fathers” mixed-up. I was attempting to refer to John Calvin as the “wicked Dutch Presbyterian” when it was Arminius that was Dutch and Calvin was French, I believe! (and that last bit was directed and addressed to “anyone following this” btw, I consider myself a wicked man too!
I am delighted to finally have someone give some scripture! Good for you! This is my life! I care nothing about what men say, I care only in what the Lord says through the Scriptures! Btw, I don’t understand all the Scriptures, if we were to come across some scriptures that I don’t understand or have a clue about, I will happily tell you! Examples that come to mind are attempting to understand the role of women in the church, or even church govt, and how that should be done today, many OT things I don’t understand real well. I’m no scholar I just love God’s word and learning all I can!
John 13:18 Jesus is talking about having chosen the disciples, I certainly never denied that God/Jesus selects men and women for tasks or offices, my problem with calvinism is the contention that God selects folks for heaven or hell. He doesn’t ever do that!
John 15:16,19 This is still a continuation of the teaching to the disciples begun in John 13. Yes, I agree that Jesus “chose” His disciples, no doubt.
Acts 18:9-10 I’m not sure why this was included, maybe what you are getting at is the fact that the Lord is saying He has “people” in the city, but that doesn’t contradict my belief/contentions.
Now onto Eph 1. First I love it, I run to it in “support” of my beliefs! I did a summary on this some time ago on SFL that was probably more in depth than this is going to be, but I’ll get to the major points for times sake.
Who is it written to? To the saints, these are saved folks! “He chose us in Him before the creation of the world” God is a being outside of time! Future events to us, are settled events of history to Him, hope you agree. In Rev 13:8 we see Jesus as the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world!NIV – the KJV says “the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” I contend that “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son…..”Rom 8:28 this tells me clearly that although God “knew” who would accept Him, that He in no way forces Himself on anyone. Can anyone really argue this point? Almighty God KNOWS who will call on and accept Him, that’s very easy for me to believe, now to explain it, that’s a different story. You see God Almighty “knows” who accepts Him eventually, so He may certainly call them “my sheep” as in “my sheep hear my voice” or here as in v-5 “predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and good will…the narrative goes on in this vein to v-13, and let’s just have a look! “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession – to the praise of His glory.”…..a few questions
Q. When were they included in Christ?
A. Not UNTIL they heard the truth, the gospel of their salvation!
Q. Was there something necessary for them to do, to receive this salvation?
A. Yep….they had to believe, they could have just as easily not believed!
Q. After believing and getting saved, what happened?
A. They were marked in him with a seal, the Holy Spirit.
They were included in Christ only after they heard the word of truth, which is the gospel, and combined that knowledge with faith or belief! Then they were sealed with the Holy Spirit. Precisely how one is saved today, and God knows who those will be, but does not force or make anyone willing.
Honey is yelling for me to come eat, I may get back to rest of it in alittle while.
There is no need for you to reply to anything else. Here’s the deal, I have not in any way been attacking your beliefs nor am I trying to set up a defense for “Calvinism”. My whole reason for engaging you was to correct your assertion that mine, and others who believe like I do, do not get our beliefs from Scripture. We do get them from there! You and I can disagree, and we do, about the meaning of certain verses as it pertains to man’s role in Salvation, but the point I have been trying to make is that I still believe what I believe because I believe that is what Scripture says. For you to state or imply otherwise is wrong and that is what I am correcting you about. Let neither of us make statements about each other and describe their beliefs as un-Biblical when in reality both views are rooted in Scripture, though with different conclusions.
Trust me. I was raised believing in “Arminianism”. As an adult I became a “Calvinist”. This happened because of my study of Scripture and Scripture alone. Sola scriptura! (BTW, I really dislike the term “Calvinist” to describe what I believe because people think I am following a man. I’m not. It’s just easier to identify what I believe in these types of forums.)
With all of that said, I don’t want to take up any more of Darrell’s site discussing our differences. If you want to continue our discussion I would welcome it away from this site. You can go to the forum, PM me, and I will be willing to send you my email. Or you can leave a comment on my personal blog by clicking my name and I will then have yours.
Eric – I hear ya.
I’m not an arminian, never have been.
I get my theology only from the word, not man, any man!
Even Paul was a man…
Ronnie – You’re like that little sucker fish, that hangs onto the great white as he goes about on his rounds, what are they called?
“Men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” The words of Paul as recorded in the Holy Scripture, are God words! They ARE Scripture, they ARE life!……at least in my view, but help yourself if you disagree.
Oh…I believe the words of Paul are Scripture. I also believe other “men of God” can speak the words of God as they are “moved by the Holy Spirit.” 😉
That’s not such a bad point. Indeed Paul himself made that point saying:
‘When one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one’ [1Co 3:4-5].
Paul also lived with the ‘I follow Christ’ line.
‘Now what I mean this: each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.”‘
I once heard a teacher mention that the ‘I follow Christ’ was likely the most ‘spiritual’ [understood as mockery] of all the factions at Corinth.
He then went on to say that Paul addressed them all the same:
‘Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?’ [1Co 1:12-13].