59 thoughts on “And Still More Hero Worship”

  1. That’s a pretty heavy back beat to be played in a fundy church. Other than that I’ve got nothing to say except it made me slightly ill to my stomach.

  2. I thought the guy said Shaap at the very end, but I wanted to make sure. I guess I could have gone to the actual youtube page to check it out.

    Yea I’ve seen many a video of Shaap and Hyles and they really did worship those guys. Or I should say do. It is really rather scary, but at BJU even if we didn’t do it out loud and with a standing ovation it really still happens the same. You see it when someone disagrees or takes a different stance then BJU. The look on people’s faces becomes, “How dare you question Jr?” or “How can you disagree with the venerable BJU?” One is more obvious and outright, but both are just as scary when you think about it.

  3. The devils music…must resist… the roar of the crowd…. must not give in….the sports announcer voice….no, no….preachers in athletic wear.
    That breaks the spell. This looks like the beginning of episode 666 of “Fundamentalist Idol”.

  4. Dan stole my line.

    Yeah, that’s FBC Hammond. Or at least it looks like it.

    I went to a couple of youth conferences back in the day of the god (Hyles)

    The music beat in the introduction was interesting to me too….I remember back at my first youth conference how our pastor didn’t like us buying the HAC tapes because of the beat in their music and the southern gospel style.

  5. Evidently lasers and africa music is okay if it is for youth conference. But it is never okay to do during your music service cause that’s “wordly”! If this isn’t man centered I do not know what is.

  6. This kinda reminds me of pep rallies at public high school. Except we didn’t have those wicked awesome green lasers.

    Incidentally, when I came over here to see what was new, I typed the address wrong. Left out an “f.” I can’t tell you how glad I am there’s nothing at “stuff undies like . com.”

  7. “Now clear the floor for the monster truck mash: it’s Samson vs. the Philistines! And don’t miss tomorrow night’s David and Goliath WWE smackdown!”

  8. didnt watch the video but i know exactly what happened. they say the preachers name and everyone goes crzy. they wave their bibles in the air yell “preach brother!!” and most of the teens dont know why they get excited. they arent excited about Jesus. they are excited about someone who will preach against whatever they are against. if it was a pastor who doesnt scream his whole sermon, and actually speaks to you like a human being and speaks the Word of God in love they wouldnt be half excited. I know cuz a year ago i would have been one of those teenagers clapping and screaming for a pastor. im glad God changes people!!

  9. k so i just watched it. my computer does not have sound. can someone tell my whats with the people in the athletic outfits coming onto the stage??

  10. Jessica, isn’t it interesting there are whole denominations that define themselves by what they’re AGAINST? Been thinking about that lately, and your comment sparked it again.

  11. @ Ben, yes it is. and very sad. i think if some of the “baptist” founders could see what has become of their denomination their hearts would be broken. we should be known for what we stand for, and for sharing/ showing Gods love.

  12. Definitely FBC Hammond. Schaap preached at my old church last fall, and his message was the final straw for us. It was such a man-centered appeal to pride that I felt physically ill throughout the thing. We had been praying for God to show us a sign of His will for us. Schaap showed up and talked about how his wife admired him so for making her daddy’s name famous (Jack Hyles) around the world (missions buildings with Hyles name on the front of the buildings). The context of the message was to “keep on fighting” and maybe one day you too can have this type of “testimony”. Anecdotally, he said that if our daughters wanted to wear short skirts like the Methodists, then they could go to Hell like they are too (I had to explain to my daughter later that her grandparents were actually saved, followers of Christ, even though they were Methodists).

    We left fundamentalism 6 months ago.

  13. Music w/ drums at FBC Hammond?!?! Is hell freezing over?!?!

    Sad that for most of those kids, that intro was probably the most exciting part of the whole conference.

    Also weird to hear the name of my aunt’s brother who is on staff at that church…

  14. I do not know whether to be amazed about the music, lasers, and matching track suits at FBC Hammond. I cannot really imagine that scene happening anywhere else.

  15. Guys, lighten up a little. It was a youth conference. They’re trying to do something fun! To me it’s not necessarily hero worship, it’s just aimed at a young audience, that’s all.

  16. @ Reforming Baptist

    Thanks for the link. You’re right, the GSBC chapel looks like a junior high youth group retreat. It would be interesting to see where these kids are 10 years from now.

  17. To JS, who said “we left Fundamentalism 6 months ago.” I am a Cedarville grad and I can tell you that many people still with some dignity call themselves Classical Fundamentalists. I have known about Hyles for years and the whole community that I have been a part of (GARBC, OBF, BJU, et al.) CONSISTENTLY have called Hyles and his ilk some other cult or gospel. They have ALL practiced separation against Hyles. The difference between them and you JS is that they simply have separated from Hyles but not the faith in the Fundamentals. Why do you not simply treat Hyles and Schapp like unbelievers, pray for them that God would save them, and go live your life with your belief in the Fundamentals of Christ intact??? I do and I never have to worry. JS, read the Book and don’t worry about this False Teacher. False Teachers exist to test us, that is why God let the False Prophets loose in the OT, to see what His people would do, if they would obey Him or not. Separate from Schapp, pray that God grant him repentance, and walk with Christ. No worries, bro.

  18. @lewis – spoken like a true ifb – the “others” are unsaved and we should pray they get saved. you are still an ifb, full of legalism and pride that you “have it right”. or is the phrase “have arrived”?

  19. Gosh Lewis, you guys have always stood against Hyles? How is it none of us have ever heard you take that stand? I’m from BJU, and I never heard Hyles denounced from the pulpit. CCM musicians, yes, that adulterer and protector of child molesters, Jack Hyles, no.

  20. That’s the beauty of fundyism: no matter how insane your “camp” is, there’s always a slightly less sane camp that makes your camp seem reasonable.

  21. Lewis, to be clear, I consider myself a true fundamentalist. By that, I mean that I hold the fundamentals that are written in the Word of God to be true and the doctrine by which we will live our lives. What I have separated myself from is the “IFB” sect, because it is clear that they place a high value in things that are not actually fundamental. Their methodologies, their men, their dress codes, their style of music – these things are all held up as doctrinal standards by which they judge other Christians. They truly believe that they are in higher standing with God due to the fact that they don’t have drums in their music, or their pastor wears a nice suit, etc. Their message centers around mechanical change of people, or behavior modification, rather than a transformed heart through the amazing grace of God. They are driven by pride, even in areas such as “soulwinning”…always trying to post big numbers of converts, but hardly ever actually making a true disciple.
    I will always admire the dedication and drive of the friends that I left behind, but they are living in a darkness caused by an incomplete understanding of scripture, are taught insufficiently because their pastors are theologically shallow, and are characterized by an arrogance of their ignorance.

  22. I think Lewis has made the classic mistake of confusing fundyism w/ the Fundamentals of the faith. Even Rob Bell generally confesses the fundamentals (although I have major reservations with his pretty loose regard for adherence to sound doctrine).

  23. @JS

    Good explanation. When I left IFB I said the same thing. But to me Fundamentalism as a word is dead to me. Perverted to never be used again. What does that make me? I don’t know, I really don’t care….I just know that I’m not, anything but, a Fundamentalist.

    Of course a whole different conversation could be had for what exactly are the fundamentals and what exactly do you believe about them. Hmmmm….scary conversation.

  24. they are living in a darkness caused by an incomplete understanding of scripture, are taught insufficiently because their pastors are theologically shallow, and are characterized by an arrogance of their ignorance.

    that’s a mouthful, my friend.

  25. JS, I liked how you said that! I too completely hold to the “fundamentals” of Scripture: the inspiration of Scripture, the virgin birth of Christ, His death for our sins on the cross, His bodily resurrection, forgiveness only through Him, among others. (Actually the BJU creed that we said every day in chapel.) Funny thing was that BJU is known for all sorts of standards that are EXTRA to the creed. It’s those extras that I’m tired of. And I’m tired of the hate. BASSENCO is right too in that I heard a LOT of preaching against Billy Graham for compromising and Steve Green for being a slippery slope, but NONE against Hyles. We didn’t follow Hyles, but we pretty much ignored him, focusing instead on the evils of those “evangelicals.” The hate just isn’t of God; I’m thoroughly tired of it. (I’m less than a year into realizing that fundamentalism isn’t for us although we had always tried to be “balanced.’ Now we’re thinking the whole scene is something we need to separate from!)

  26. BTW, a lot of fundamentalists I know reject Cedarville for their music and do not consider them fundamentalists on that issue alone. I remember taking my husband’s younger brother to a Steve Green concert at Cedarville (way back in the early 90s!) and knowing that if I went in to listen, I’d be KICKED OUT of BJU.

  27. @pastor’s wife

    Funny, I was at BJU back when they actually played a Steve Green song in chapel. I forget the particulars, but I think he was in town for a concert and they wanted to demonstrate to us why we’d be in big trouble if we went. The intent was probably to shock us with the sound so we’d be repulsed at the evilness of it all. What actually happened is that most of the people in my circles wished they would’ve played more so we could see if it would be worth buying the CD.

    Interestingly, I got to meet Steve Green and hear him live for the first time a few weeks ago. He’s really a great guy – humble, sincere, and used greatly by the Lord, especially in Spanish-speaking countries (his parents were missionaries and he was raised in South America). Turns out he’s not second cousin to the devil after all! 🙂

    Anyone else remember that chapel service? Can you refresh my memory as to the details? I can’t even remember what song was played.

  28. @Reforming Baptist: I am not sure what clip you are talking about on your web site, but that Jeff kid is hysterical! He will do very well in the real world!
    I have a friend who knew all of the Hyles stuff as she went to the college and then to church there for many years. She stayed, even after being accused of stuff she didn’t do. I asked her why she never sought out a different church, she replied that she never thought of that. Now she rarely comes to church saying she would never join another church again. (different town, state) Learning from this site the evils of Hyles, I do not wonder.
    I always think of the money: we spend so much on “programs”, esp. teen programs just to see them leave and NEVER come back. And that money could go to Aid to women, or Birthright or some real program that could actually help the hurting/needy people in our area….like that would happen.

  29. @maria Berg
    “I always think of the money: we spend so much on “programs”, esp. teen programs just to see them leave and NEVER come back.”

    You say that as if it is the teenagers fault. I’m not so sure it is. If the message they are selling is flawed teenagers are pretty adept at sniffing that out. If they reject something it isn’t always just because they are rebellious. Sometimes the cognitive dissonance is to loud to stay put.

  30. I got out (officially) at the beginning of this year. I am now an Eastern Orthodox catechumen, with my chrismation (tentatively) scheduled for Christmas.

    GSBC Alumni Dinner this year (held every year during Pastor’s Conference in September) is going to be interesting. 🙂 LOL

  31. @Nate

    Yes, I was there at that chapel. They played “Let the Walls Come Down” to show how evil and ecumenical Steve Green (and thus all CCM) was. I heard what was actually said though: “If in CHRIST we agree, let us seek unity” and realized I agreed with that. After all, at the time there were Presbyterians, Methodists, Mennonites, and of course Baptists all attending BJU. That was why we said the creed: to affirm the FUNDAMENTALS. If we can agree on Jesus Christ, why can we not give each other Christian liberty on issues like music choices and clothing styles?

    My husband and I LOVE Steve Green’s music and own nearly all of it. I’d always been told CCM was so evil, but when I listened to his words, I saw the Scriptures all through them. When I realized that authority figures had been misrespresenting Steve Green all those years, it made me wonder what else they were lying about.

  32. @Mark: it usually isn’t the “fault” of the teen, sometimes yes there is true rebellion, then other times they do go to other churches in the area, just not their parents church. Our teen programs have included a watered down version of Pro-Teens, mostly “get the points so you get the plaque at the end of the school year”. You know, go rake old lady whatshernames lawn for so many points…..not much has changed, same amount of money is being thrown down the same hole. That is what I meant…..

  33. @pastorswife– I was also in that chapel! The only thing I came away with was “Wow. That’s an amazing sound system. Too bad they don’t use it more often.”

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.