350 thoughts on “Shenanigans Redux”

      1. Foolishness. And not the “foolishness” that Paul referred to about the message of the cross. This is just pure foolishness… raw tom foolery.

      1. ok, that “f” was to finish off Dwelling in Imladris’ “wt”. This is truly bizarre. Are they on drugs? It looks like it. At about the 2 minute mark I thought that one guy was going into a strip act.

        1. Actually, that’s what I thought the “f” meant.

          So you don’t think this is what Paul had in mind when he said, “the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness?” Maybe gentlemen such as this would get a more charitable response to their style of worship if they had, in general, more charity themselves.

        2. It reminds me more of David when he pretended to be insane, scratching at the gates and drooling down his beard. Is there anything of profit in this behaviour? What is the point of this? I am asking. I have never seen anything like it before. You can’t even understand what they are saying except for the, “Yeees. Amen.”

        3. I was thinking more along the lines of Paul in 1 Corinthians, who said to “let the prophets speak two or three,” and “if anything be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace… For God is not the author of confusion, but peace…Let all things be done decently and in order.”

          Paul also calls for interpreters to translate the tongue-speaking, and in fact I could barely understand any of what these guys were saying. (I caught “Turn to Jesus” something something a couple of times towards the end.)

      1. Rammer Jammer Yellow Hammer,
        Give ’em Hell, Alabama!

        Saint Nick has been recruiting up a storm. Great season coming up. ROLL TIDE!

  1. I did not grow up in the “official” IFB world. When I watch things like this, I recall the EXACT same things happening in the churches we attended. I also remember thinking, “Wow, God is really here tonight.”

    Now I realize it’s just the fake, trumped up, entertainment that was preached against and that was happening in “other churches”.

    Then I start critiquing the actual “preaching” from those churches, and I start realizing there was very little to be gleaned.

    It kind of depresses me.

    It’s kind of like when I was a little kid and we dug a huge hole in the garden and played war acting like it was our foxhole. I was telling the story years later and related the hole to be about 6 feet deep. My brother, who is 6 years older than me, corrected me and told me at best it might have been 18 inches deep. Probably more like a foot.

    Anybody else understand that analogy?

        1. I’ve never been in an IFB church that didn’t believe some form of dispensationalism.

    1. It is definitely NOT wrong. Dispensationalism is the very essence of “man-made” theology.

      It was invented by Darby in the 1800s with his Plymouth Brethren movement. That particular doctrine and interpretation of Scripture was unknown in Christianity until then.

      It became wildly popular, however. Apocalyptic theologies are always popular with the underclass, because it gives them hope that things are going to change. They are popular with the upper class because it gives them room to stall, saying that God is going to bring the changes they can’t (won’t, don’t have any intention of doing, etc.). Keep the suckers happy.

      And how many times have people gathered waiting for the Rapture to occur at any moment? How many times have books of prophesy been revised to edit out the assertions that did not come true and replace them with more assertions that won’t come true? If ever there was a theology which had been proven wrong, this one is it.

      1. The church I grew up in taught the rapture was a real thing. I spent my whole life believing it would happen at any moment. After doing some research on the whole matter a few weeks ago, after finding the Stuff Fundies Like site, I learned that it was a relatively new theory and is based on total nonsense (in my opinion). I was just in shock. I naively thought this was something that Christians believed for ages and that it was all in the Bible. I’ve since learned it’s not after I sat down and actually read the entire book of Revelation and Daniel for the first time. Now I don’t even know how the IFB churches I grew up in came up with their teachings on the rapture and how the end times would play out. Unless I’m just a complete idiot, (which is possible ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) I just don’t see how they came up with the conclusions that they did – the Beast, the tribulation, etc. It all just seems like a fairytale made up to keep the flock in line; fearmongering, really. I’m glad I’ve finally realized the truth. It makes for a much more pleasant existence.

        1. A man called John Nelson Darby, worshiped by the Plymouth Brethren, the group I was raised in, fell off a horse and had a “revelation from God” about what the Peebs (PBs) call “revealed truth.” They like to pat themselves on the back and say that Dispensationalism and the Rapture where, “hid from generations but revealed to God’s servant JND.” puke. I bought it all too and as a kid it was pretty terrifying. I had to get saved over and over again just to make sure I wasn’t going to get left behind. I wasn’t worried about Hell. I was plenty worried about being left on earth without my family.

        2. Same here, Miriam! I was way more terrified at the thought of being left here all alone than going to hell. When I was younger, sometimes when I’d hear a train horn in the middle of the night, I’d freak out that it was the rapture and that I’d been left. I would pray the Sinner’s Prayer over and over in head for years “just to be sure.” I am so thankful for this website because it’s nice to know that others have experienced the same thing. For the longest time, I seriously thought I was losing my mind and had gone crayz. It’s not a fun place to be. I am feeling MUCH better about life now. I’m still angry about a lot of things, but the fear is gone now. And for me, that’s most important.

        3. Thank you for the video, Miriam! I’ve been trying to figure out this whole dispensationalism thing since I first saw it mentioned on this site. I grew up learning about the rapture, but I had no idea how the IFB church came up with the concept before now. I seriously thought it was in the Bible. And, no one I knew ever used the term “dispensationalism” that I recall. This has all been so unbelievably eye opening.
          I’m 37, but I feel like I’m back in kindergarten again. I have so much learning to do! But, this has been very helpful, and I appreciate it very much. ๐Ÿ™‚

        4. I am glad I can help shed a little light on things for you. I found that video really helpful. Growing up, JND, (the peebs call all their great men by three initials, lol) was revered and quoted and practically worshiped. Weird. As I have said before, I wish he’d fallen a little harder off that horse. It might have spared a lot of us grief.

        5. Oh wow. I had no idea. As I recall, most fundies I knew put Schofield up on a pedestal, so it makes sense that this theory became so popular.
          It’s funny that most IFBs think every other denomination is a cult. Pot, Kettle, have you met?

        6. I used to be afraid that I would be raptured while my first-born son would be left alone as a baby to fend for himself. It caused me some anxiety. Not long after that I started questioning the pre-trib rapture. I decided that I’d rather go through the tribulation ordeal and protect my children than be raptured early. Hell yeah, I’d rather go through living hell on earth to save my children. I was told this was not a godly mindset and I was being deceived. Bullshit. So I became post-trib. Now I don’t know if I believe in any trib or rapture or any of the possible end-times scenarios out there. It really doesn’t bother me.

        7. I agree with you, Joshua. That is bullshit. What is wrong with people? I don’t think that’s an ungodly mindset at all. I don’t have any children, but I can imagine that would cause a great deal of anxiety to think your baby could be left behind. Anyone who thinks that you shouldn’t feel that way doesn’t have a heart, in my opinion.
          I haven’t been to an IFB church in 11 years, but it’s been difficult to shake off everything I was taught the first 26 years of my life. It really sticks with you. They are experts at manipulation and control. I never really agreed or understood much of what I was taught, but I just assumed that I wasn’t spiritual enough and that God had just given up on me. So I said screw it and God could just strike me dead (because I’d always been taught that He would eventually, if we weren’t living exactly as the IFB church taught).

          It wasn’t until I discovered this site a month or so ago that I finally did some research and Bible study on my own, and I finally realized I had been fed so many lies my entire life. I’m especially fascinated with the whole end-times, rapture theory. I read through Revelation and Daniel for the first time on my own a week or so ago, and I don’t see anything in either book that lines up with how I was taught. I’m starting to feel like you do that there is no Tribulation period that is going to happen, and I don’t believe in the rapture anymore.

          Does anyone know where this whole thing originated, as far as the Tribulation and Antichrist and all that? I remember watching an absolutely terrifying movie in church when I was very young called ” A Thief in the Night.” It depicted the Tribulation period and those who didn’t take the mark of the beast ended up getting beheaded. But, I can’t find anything in the Bible that teaches that. I’m curious to know who came up with this scenario. Is it just a bedtime store fundies cooked up to scare the ever living daylights out of everyone? Because that seems more plausible than what they actually teach….

        8. Rebecca – Welcome and certainly feel free to catch up on the past posts. You really can learn a lot just by reading the comments along with getting a laugh.
          Let us know if you have any questions at all. Watch out for george, remember there is no white piano, and regardless of what Lord Don says, this is in fact a plane and not a boat. At SFL Airlines not only is your first bag free, all of your baggage is free and can be thrown out at any time. And your pilot is in fact a floatation device.


        9. Thank you, Scorpio! Yes, I’ve started reading the older posts all the way back from the beginning and also the newer posts and should meet up in the middle sometime soon. ๐Ÿ™‚ I’ve learned so much already!
          OK, good to know about plane vs. boat. He had me believing we are on a boat. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        10. Miriam – I will put this in my file titled “My Crazy is Crazier Than Your Crazy But Not as Crazy as His Crazy”. I find it fascinating that the Peebs claim Darby and Dispensationalism as their “thing”. In my fundy circles, whenever the discussion turned to the rapture and dispy stuff, it was heresy to claim that any of it was only a recent doctrine. They would claim that it was known for centuries by the True Churchโ„ข (see the Trail of Blood for any questions as to who was the True Churchโ„ข) and that all of this talk of Darby was just satan deceiving us to keep us from the real truth. And that truth is – “the rapture is going to happen any day now not that we set dates like those crazy people do but it could be this year and if not this year probably next year not that we are date setting but it is going to be soon anyway so make sure you are ready”.

        11. Scorp, my family had loads of peeb cred because my g. grandfather knew Darby, was “gathered” by him and helped “set the Lord’s table” in the town he lived in under Darby’s tutelage. Man worship much? I can’t tell you how many times I heard someone say, “His coming is imminent, perhaps before the end of this meeting/prayer/breath, time will run out and blah, blah, blah.” Crazy! And you’ve seen the dispensation charts we studied, more crazy! Thing is, I didn’t know it was crazy. I thought I just wasn’t spiritual enough to really get it.

        12. Eschatology’s days are numbered! I bought into the whole Hal Lindsey Syndrome for a long time. Now I’m not sure what to believe about the End Times. I suppose my attitude is that escaping the Tribulation is the most attractive option, and if it happens that way, great, but what if it doesn’t? I guess my nature is to prepare for the worst case scenario, which some have interpreted as a lack of faith, if not outright unbelief. If we are raptured, ruptured or beamed up before things get really messy, I want to be first. But I don’t believe in the Pre-Trib Rupture enough to bank by whole future on it. If it happens that way u don’t think God will leave me behind just because I don’t mentally assent to that particular doctrine. Besides I think the idea of the Pre-trib rapture is a particularly western construct. Passages in the Bible which westerners point to to support this idea may be interpreted rather differently by a Christian living in North Korea or Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

        13. Paul, yes, now that I’ve looked into it more, it does appear that a pre-trib rapture is almost exclusively an American point of view. I guess my biggest problem right now with end times theories presented by the IFB church is HOW they came up with the conclusions that they did rather than the actual theories themselves. It seems like they really had to work the scriptures to get it to line up with their teachings. It just shouldn’t be that difficult, in my opinion.

        14. Rebecca, here is a link to a blog that discusses why being obsessed with eschatology is a waste of time:


          I think this is a 15-part series. I haven’t read it all, but it helps navigate the confusing eschatological landscape. Ultimately, if you believe that Christ will come and restore all things than all the details, and how you interpret them don’t really matter that much.

        15. Thank you, Joshua! I will definitely check this out.

          I always just believed what I did because that’s what the IFB church taught, and I was never going to be “spiritual” enough to figure it all out on my own. Plus, it all seemed so daunting.

          But, now I know that’s really dangerous. I want to figure out what I really do believe because I took the time to read the Bible and studies and figured it out on my own, not because it’s what someone told me to believe.

          I will add this to my things to read. Thanks!

        16. I agree with nearly all the above comments, but I couldn’t help chuckling at this:
          “Rebecca, here is a link to a blog that discusses why being obsessed with eschatology is a waste of time:

          I think this is a 15-part series.”

          Um, speaking of things that are time-consuming …

        17. Hahaha! It’s all good, Big Gary. I love to read, and I’ve bought so many books in the past few weeks to help me make sense of everything. I’ll just add this to my reading list, too. ๐Ÿ™‚

        18. When it dawned on me that Revelation was “The revelation of Jesus Christ” and not “the revelation of extreme minutae of the end times”, and I actually sat down and read Revelation and realized that a large chunk of it is just talking about the awesome of Jesus and not the events of the end times, that really, really changed how I thought about things.

        19. Yes, same here!! I had always avoided reading Revelation because my former pastor made it seem so terrifying. About two weeks or so ago, I finally sat down and read the whole book in one sitting and realized it’s not scary at all! I really enjoyed reading it! Fundies just have to ruin everything. ๐Ÿ˜‰

        20. Someday I am going to kill George. Someday his electronic heart will stop beating.

          Oh, who am I kidding? George is omnipresent. A minion of the lowerarchy, I am sure.

      2. You know what is even crazier? Covenant theology. I don’t really care when something was allegedly invented. If it is stupid, its stupid. And frankly, some of the first century theologians so often quoted all the way up to Luther and beyond believed some screwed up crap. So I’m not impressed with the older is better argument. I find just as much stupidity in reading tea leaves in the old testament meaning of Israel as I find in dispensationalism.

        This is one thing that ticks me off about Protestant Christianity in general. You are either this or that. You’re not a Calvinist? Well then you are an Arminian. You aren’t a dispensationalist, well then you believe in covenant theology. You don’t believe that you are a robot? Then you are a semi-pelagian.

        And frankly, too many people are running from the IFB heroine and going directly across the street to the reformed stupidity methadone clinic.

        As for me, no thanks on either.

        1. ^^this, except for George’s extra ‘e’ on heroin. I totally agree Larry! It’s bullshit

        2. Truth. I did that when I first started straying from the fundy flock. I thought the new calvinistic, reformed movement would help cure what ailed me. It really didn’t provide much comfort though and I found strains of the fundamentalism that I wanted to leave behind. I realized that fundamentalism (all kinds including IFB) was an outgrowth of protestant reformed Christianity. So there will be many similarities.

          At least a lot of the reformed are okay with drinking beer.

        3. I have often said that the Calvinist-Arminian controversy rests upon letting Calvin make the definitions and ask the questions. Both the definitions of Calvinism (as, say, the Sovereignty of God) and the questions are wrong.

          Very possibly even how they define God is wrong as well.

          And if you can’t get past those, you can’t get anywhere.

          The “Systematic Theologies” produced in any system (but especially Calvinist) are basically junk. Man-made theologies trying to put God in a Box.

        4. Care to prove that from Scripture? Oh yeah…you can’t. God is seen as totally Sovereign throughout the entire Bible.

        5. Uhh. No. Calvinism describes the Sovereignty of God asthe biblical teaching that all things are under God’s rule and control, and that nothing happens without His direction or permission.

          And yet, despite asserting that nothing happens outside His will, we see that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. And we see Jesus crying over Jerusalem. He would have gathered them to safety, as a mother hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but Jerusalem was not willing.

          God wills something that does not happen? So says the Scriptures.

          There are lots of little things in the Scriptures contesting the idea that everything is under the absolute control of God. The Free Will of man is also taught.

          Had Calvin been content with a limited sovereignty, but ultimate Judge, he would have been fine. But no, Calvin had to go beyond Scripture, throw out huge chunks of it and go for a purified, sanitized and hyperbolic version of God not found in Scripture as a whole, and demand that everything else be interpreted that way.

          I don’t expect you to agree, of course. You are terrified that if you think of God in any other way than the Greek idea of perfection, He will do a Hulk Smash on you. But the scriptures were not written from the Greek perspective. The are Hebrew and Jewish with some Persian thrown in.

        6. That’s it? So now you at going to tell me that I can’t understand the Bible if I don’t know Greek?

          And if God is absolutely sovereign and nothing occurs that is outside His Will, then it was the Will of God that Our First Parents disobeyed God’s Will?

          The problem is that Calvinism’s definitions tend to be absolutes in a framework that doesn’t allow for absolutes. The Scriptures were not written that way, and to try to treat them that way does violence to their essence.

          God created man for a relationship. Absolute Sovereignty excludes any relationship other than Mover and Automaton. The individual does not matter, and indeed Calvinism stresses this. The Rules are the Rules.

          The Puritans preached that infants who died went to hell. This was God’s Sovereign Will. Only those who could exercise faith in Jesus Christ were saved. That their children died before they could trust in Jesus happened under God’s Providence. Many mothers went insane at the thought of their children in Hell. Many committed suicide.

          Oh well, God has mercy on whom He will have mercy. Whom he decides to trash, He trashes. That’s Election for you. In-group versus out-group. Chosen to Bless versus Chosen to Burn.

          Covenant Theology is itself a kind of Fundamentalism. It is every bit as cruel and controlling as IFBs. The theology is arbitrary and rigid, God in a Box.

          And Adam, over 1000 people have died in Nepal in the earthquake. God’s Sovereignty at Work? Why? How?

        7. Its only a matter of time before Nepal becomes just another sermon about God’s Judgement on Sin. (Guess which one)

        8. I’m sure Pat Robertson will have something inane to say about this.

          And isn’t it wonderful (interesting, horrifying, etc) how BAD God’s aim is when He is “judging sin”?

          Katrine was supposedly God’s judgment on New Orleans. In one picture of the aftermath, a destroyed church was just a short way from an intact liquor store.

        9. I suppose many people need to find reasons for why bad things happen. Cause and effect. Unfortunately, as they say,”s*** happens”,even to good people, it’s part of life, part of living in an imperfect “fallen” world. Hurricanes and earthquakes may have little to do with God’s Judgement, and a lot to do with Weather Systems and Plate Tectonic. Besides, Judgement only happens to “THEM” for their SIN.God would judge US for our FAILINGS.

        10. Paul, these things happen as a natural consequence of living on earth. Stuff happens. Earthquakes happen, floods happen, storms happen… it’s a planet, it moves, it creaks and groans and burps occasionally. But it has no moral agency and it doesn’t do things ‘on purpose’, Imagining that it does something specifically to/for us is the greatest sort of hubris.

        11. The ancients saw weather as God in Action. Thunder was God’s Voice. Rain could be God’s blessing–or judgment. The wind was in God’s fist. With it he could drive away rain, bring in quail for food, or cause destruction.

          Fundamentalists still view the weather this way. God caused this or God did that.

          It is when they try to have it both ways that I get really angry though. Either God is in Control of Everything or else He is Not Sovereign. You cannot mix Providence with natural processes.

          If the 2004 Tsunami was not caused by God, then God is not Sovereign. Some things are not in His Control. It calls into question His Power, even His willingness to save. Yet if He caused it, it calls into question His righteousness and justice.

          The dilemma puts me on the edge of belief. I was brought up to believe in an Almighty God Who could do anything, could save both physically and spiritually, who was intimately concerned with our lives and listened to our prayers.

          If “s*** happens,” then what is the point? If obedience doesn’t bring blessing and disobedience doesn’t bring trouble, then God’s promises are moot. If God doesn’t show Himself in times like that, will He ever? I can see some randomness, but disasters have always troubled me.

          That one event — the 2004 Tsunami — shook my faith to its core and I have never completely recovered from it. I want to believe in a Good God. But such things make it hard to do so.

          So I often soldier on, remembering the principles. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do justly, love mercy and walk humbly. Even if I can’t believe at times I can still treat others as I wish to be treated.

          I am not content to think it will all be made right “in heaven.” That is a crock, a crutch allowing us to not work to make things right in the here and now.

  2. To play devils advocate here; it sounds like (in between the intelligible yelling and screaming) these guys were sharing their testimonies of no longer being alcoholics and drug abusers.

    I suppose that’s something someone should be excited about, and maybe if they stuck to just sharing their testimonies of the amazing grace of God in their lives and in the lives of their family it would save us all from some of their “preaching”.

    Just a thought. Take it for what it’s worth.

    1. Testimonies are to be celebrated. I have been part of churches which worshiped and celebrated in this manner. The problem is that if this is not how the service is experienced, they question everyone’s spirituality. It was dead. The Spirit showed up in the preaching but the people are dead. The hyped up atmosphere is expected and created even under false pretenses because its not spirit filled unless there is this chaos. And who wants to be the one left sitting in their seats–so everyone needs to shout and run and participate in one way or another or your spirituality is questioned.
      I don’t think anyone here is arguing the power or need for testimonies. I think the question is the style in which they celebrate those testimonies. I also wonder how many times the same testimonies are shared by the same person. Or how many times people feel they need to come up with a better testimony.

    2. Slapstick is better left to Larry, Moe, and Curly. It’s hard to take xianity seriously if the elders are acting like a bunch of junior high boys.

  3. The real problem here is that no one else in the church would be allowed to do this. A group of ladies? No. A group of teens. No. Toddlers? No..they would be spanked.

    1. Paul’s instruction “Let all things be done decently and in order,” I Cor. 14:40, obviously wasn’t intended for this motley crew. I had some of the same “cringe, skin craw, stomach rolling, please don’t let me watch, why am I watching?!” moments as experienced in the polished shaft vid.


    2. That’s what I was thinking. If I’d been there I would have jumped up on stage with them so that when they inevitably kicked me off, maybe some of the teens would notice the hypocrisy. But… I wouldn’t wanna end up on youtube with them. XP

      1. I’m on them too. Fell down the stairs at church Sunday, damaged myself pretty heavily. Add to that the embarrassment of having to wiggle out of spanx and nylons while lying on a hospital bed in ER…

  4. I find this so strange since there is so much criticism regarding the “chaos” of worship in charismatic and Pentecostal churches. We were always warned about them when I was in my fundy church., especially about how emotionalism wasn’t honoring to God.

    I just wonder what the pastors call this stunt-chaos, worship or just plain bad acting?

    1. I would call it what happens when they mistakenly ingest some uncut Meth instead of the watered-down stuff.
      But then, I may be from a different neighborhood.

    2. BINGO!! While I don’t agree with Pentecostal shenanigans, this IFB stuff annoys me just as much. I have been in some services of the Pentecostal variety that you can tell the people are sincere. While there may be one or two “sincere” ones in this IFB video, it comes across to me as more arrogance than thankfulness.

      *fans Linn with a 500 pound king james bible while laying on a white piano*

      1. My whole opinion of charismatic/Pentecostal worship changed after going off to college. Not my usual style, but not “bad” either.

        I just don’t like hypocrites who are critical of one group, and then do something even worse. It’s just a mockery of a true worship experience (unless you work with fifth graders ๐Ÿ™‚ I do!).

    1. This should be a Friday post idea.

      Remember how we’d always have to bring approved Christian music to roller skates?



      And go.

        1. If Middle TN is as backward as I think it is, they probably didn’t have roller blades until 2000.

        2. Does that have something to do with this “wheel” invention I’ve been hearing about?

        3. Yes, it was actually invented in your home town. However I can remember in which town they decided to make it round.

        4. Sorry I can*not* remember… My brain is still recovering from The Mighty Hutson’s act…

        5. BG, that was hilarious.

          Ben, I don’t remember StuartB mentioning age. I’m old. I’m old enough to remember party lines and B&W TV. Either I forget his post or I missed it.

  5. I know several of the men on that stage and I bet some of them will wear it like a badge of honor that they were “persecuted” on the web. I can hear them dearing they will keep on keeping on for the Lord in the face of this attack! Excuse me I think I am going to be ill now…

  6. Listening to garbage like this for the first 26 years of my life is why I now get severe anxiety whenever I hear someone raise their voice. I really cannot take loud noises of any kind. I never realized how much being raised in fundamentalism has affected so many aspects of my life until recently…

    1. The trick to coming out is to leave behind the theatrics and the trappings of religion without leaving the faith. Or to leave behind their pet applications of Scripture while keeping the truth of Scripture. For example, it is true that all Scripture is breathed out by God and is profitableโ€ฆ but it is not true that the KJV alone is that Scripture. It is true that women [and men] should dress modestly, but there are modest pants for women. There is a safe place that is neither IFB nor heretical and I hope you can find it.

      1. Thank you, Joshua! I hope so, too. My brother left the IFB church many years ago, too, and he is now Presbyterian. He recommended a Presbyterian church to me that is near my home, and I plan on checking it out in the next few weeks. It’s the first time I’ve looked forward to going to church in many, many years.

    2. “Listening to garbage like this for the first 26 years of my life is why I now get severe anxiety whenever I hear someone raise their voice. I really cannot take loud noises of any kind.”

      Amen, and amen. I echo your feelings. After the IFB world I despise any extraneous noise, and I absolutely abhor loud unexpected noise. It’s a trigger for me.

      1. It really sucks how much it still controls certain aspects of our lives, doesn’t it? I had dinner with a friend last week, and he starting pounding on the table for emphasis while retelling a story, and I started freaking out. I told him to stop hitting the table and to lower his voice. Poor guy was so confused as to why I was flipping out. I did the best I could to explain why that caused me anxiety, but unless you were brought up this way, it’s really difficult to understand. Things like this are reason I’m still pretty angry with the IFB church. I hope someday I’ll finally be 100% free.

        1. It’s called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. We suffer from it. I wonder how many of us are skilled conflict avoiders as well. I have a fear of being ”brought up on the carpet” because I lived for years with people who felt they had the right to do that to me. Yeah, it sucks.

        2. I know I am for sure! I’m getting better at standing up for myself, but it’s been soooo difficult. It’s effected so many of my relationships in the past with friends, co-workers, and my ex-husband.
          I started seeing a therapist about a year ago for something completely unrelated to fundamentalism. Now that that issue has been dealt with, we’ve been discussing my fundamentalist upbringing and all the issues that have come with that. He’s been tremendously helpful. I’m feeling very positive now that I’ll come out of this a stronger, more mentally healthy person. I know it’s going to be a long battle because I’m still very, very angry about a LOT of things, but I’m determined now not to let the fundies win. ๐Ÿ™‚

    3. I understand, Rebecca! Our school system holds a system-wide teacher inservice day every year at one of the large, local churches (it’s a small town, and the churches are the only places with auditoriums large enough to hold everyone). Anyway, a couple of years ago, it was at a Southern Baptist church. The pastor was invited to give an invocation. Even though he isn’t IFB, he spoke with the same cadence and intonation so many of these guys use. No joke, my whole body jerked and my heart started pounding. I wanted to get out of there.
      I’ve been out of the IFB for nearly 20 years. Do these reactions never go away?

      1. Miss TTU Runner-Up, I sure hope they do at some point! My parents still attend an IFB church, although it’s not nearly as bad as the one I grew up in, but I do not go with them whenever I’m in town to visit. (And, luckily, my parents aren’t the typical fundies who guilt you into going to church.) I’m afraid it’ll bring everything rushing back, and I’ll have to start the healing process all over again. I hope eventually these feelings and reactions will subside. One day at a time…. ๐Ÿ™‚

    1. Yeah, my dad always wondered why I didn’t invite my friends to stuff. I thought at the time it was because I wasn’t spiritual and I carried tremendous guilt. Now I know I should have seen that as a sign that something was wrong.

      I feel tremendously broken-hearted for the teens who were forced to attend this.

  7. This crossed arm salute reminds me of the pseudo Nazi salute from the movie “The Wall” 1982. It is the “crossed hammer” salute which is a sign of oppression and defiance.

  8. I wish there was some indication about what they were shouting about. The audio dies every time someone gets behind the pulpit.
    Is the X thing an inside thing from this meeting or a common fundy thing nowadays?
    Props to Tony Hutson for being way more in shape than I am (or almost any fundy preacher). Not only was he able to lift that other (rather large) preacher but he actually carried him around for awhile. (Which is weird but also an impressive display of physical fitness)

  9. FWIW:
    1) The cross sign they’re making with their arms was used by T.D. Jakes in a sermon several years ago. Wondering if these guys watch Jakes for pointers. At the very least, they’re not avoiding the appearance of evil by using similar arm motions as a heretic.
    2) Justifying the use of suspenders (and thus obesity) because they cross in the back (underneath the coat, where it can’t be seen. Hmmm….)
    3) The little bald guy needs a stool so he can see over that pulpit.
    4) Never mind. Hutson, apparently, is a stool.
    5) When the woman started screeching, I swear dogs started barking in 3 surrounding counties.
    6) Very disappointed no one did a belly flop in the baptismal pool.
    7) If any teen who was there is reading this, I’m praying for you. Seriously. I hope you realize some things well before I did. Ask God for wisdom.

  10. Ds
    I didnt see your comments as an attack on my mom. At the time I did not believe the comment relevant or appropriate. As a movie reference? I understand. Not a big deal.
    I don’t wish to give any version or side. I simply question why you said the things you said about me since you do not know me. These are not goofy remarks. You made a statement about me regarding immorality. The statement is false.
    I do not care who or if anyone knows me on this site. I do care if (as it appears) you know people that I may know and it leads you to comment something about me that is not true.
    Again, it is your right to say what you will but for the sake of your own disguised character please do not make these types of statements since you do not know me. Thanks.

    1. Mr. Davison,

      I appreciate you reaching out to me. You may not have seen my reply to your original comment. I hope you will go back and read what I said. Please know that as soon as I realized you said my comment was untrue, I asked for it to be removed from this site and it has been taken down. I have experienced false accusation and I know how it feels to think that others might believe something negative about you. Please know I repeated something that was told to me many years ago that I believed sincerely to be true until you told me differently. I have not repeated it before and it was inappropriate to repeat it here, even if it was true! I doubt our paths will ever cross and I doubt we have mutual acquaintances at this time. Please do know I have no desire to damage your reputation. Sometimes we assume on this site that no one from the IFB world reads this blog, but we need to be sensitive to that. A common criticism of the IFB is that gossip is a problem. I am learning that lesson with respect to my own words. I ask your forgiveness for my words and if there is anything else I can do to make it right, please let me know.

      -Deacon’s Son

  11. Tony Hutson was influenced by Sammy Allen. I grew up in Sammy Allen’s circle and attended many meetings like this one. Sammy Allen’s camp meeting in Resaca, GA is notorious for shouting and aisle running.
    As I get older I realize that what I grew up in was a weirdly cross pollinated amalgamation of Independent Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Pentecostalism and Appalachian culture.

    I’d like to stop right here and thank The Lord that video cameras were a rarity back in my aisle running days. I don’t think there are any videos of me acting a fool.

    1. In a word, Bapticostal. Working at the Wilds, we were cautioned about some of the baptist churches that we passed on the way down the mountain into Brevard for church because they were bapticostal. That summer was also the first time I attended a Presbyterian Church with one of the full-time staff and my mind was opened to the idea that not all believers attend baptist churches.

    1. Of course, “peculiar” in today’s language doesn’t have the same meaning that it had in 1611, but hey, why let the facts get in the way of interpretation?

  12. Well…I know a couple of the guys, besides Tony Hutson, there. 1. Choir loft far left…Daniel Waters. He loves the Lord. 2. Platform far left….my Pastor…Bro. Noah Broughton. Loves God, and is one of the most Godly men I have ever met. He ordained me too. I prefer services a little quieter these days than I used to, but may I ask what is wrong with being excited about being saved? A lot of people will go down to ball game and act like that. I might be a little different now, but I will always remember, and thank God for, people that invested in my life.

    1. Far left, Daniel Waters? Is that the poor guy who is trying to ignore what is going on as much as he can? I feel sorry for him. He looks like he wishes he were elsewhere.

    2. Dude, this isn’t a ball game. Being vocal at a ball game and having your heart exult in Christ are not comparable things. I shout in worship now and then, but not like these people.

        1. I’d go out for a pint and I’ve never had beer! Of course there’d be heck to pay when I get back, but it’d be worth it.

        2. That’s what Big Red gum is for! Or peanut butter. My brothers swore by eating peanut butter for getting the booze off the breath.

  13. For a good time, mute the Fundy Dance Dance Revolution Video and watch it with “The Hamster Dance” or tune of your choice playing in another window.

    Oh my goodness. Too funny!

        1. Hint: It’s better if you put the YouTube player on “Full Screen when you do this.

        1. I guarantee you will laugh hearing that while the guy whips that suit jacket around, lol.

        2. Oh no……..those men are not too sexy for their suits. They need to leave them ON.

    1. I made the mistake of googling the HamsterDance and finding it on YouTube. now I need to have it surgically removed from my skull. I blame you, jumper junkie. Thanks a lot.

  14. I laughed all the way through it, lol! Comparatively speaking, that’s one of the more benign things I’ve seen. You sure that wasn’t a charismatic church?? I’ve seen them do stuff like that in those kinds of churches. Thanks for the entertainment, lol! ๐Ÿ™‚

  15. So our sisters in Christ can’t show too much knee but they brazenly show their suspenders. I hope none of the good ladies here find suspenders a stumbling block.

  16. Wait- this was a *TEEN* event? What in that would relate to teens? Was there anyone in that video that was under 50?

    If I was a teen, I would walk out that door and never come back.

  17. Please help me out. “I’m an X-man!” What does that mean? Why are they so excited about it? Is this in any way related to the X-men comics and movies?

  18. I’ve been in a church that goes for relevance. I have never been much of a fan of relevance. But this would be on the opposite end of the spectrum from being relevant. Would we call this “irreverent irrelevance”?

  19. And, thus, brothers and sisters, we can see the evils of illicit drug use; yea, verily, drug abuse. Save a Fundamentalist–ban fried chicken, sweet tea, and suspenders!

    1. No, no! Keep the suspenders on those guys, and make sure that they’re fastened very securely.

      That jumping around might cause an innocent maiden’s eyes to stray.

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