Odds and Ends Keeping the Main Thing The Main Thing November 6, 2014 Darrell 127 Comments (And the main thing is SOULWINNING. The Bible says it right in…um…well it’s in there, ok?)
127 thoughts on “Keeping the Main Thing The Main Thing”
Yep, it’s in there!
He that winneth souls is wise, so says Proverbs.
(never mind that that word doesn’t mean what you think it means…)
Train men to be under the control of the Holy Spirit….huh? More like training them to be under the control of their fundy Baptist popes
Right – The mere fact that certain men are qualified to “train” other men regarding the Holy Spirit shows a pope mentality.
So at West Coast do they worship their M.O.G. like they do Hyles/Schaap/Trieber etc. and worship they guest speakers Hutson/Brown/Larry “Hay Sir Quit Your Talking” Smith?
Is Jack Schaap a raging pervert?
This is a terribly awkward video. The classroom action shown was of ranting “preaching”. And, am I blind, or was the room where the fellow was stomping on top of a podium empty?? I’m trying to picture the apostle Paul doing that.
Obviously it was an attempt at humor.
The key word is “attempt.”
It was training in street preaching. They get used to ranting with no one listening.
Isn’t that a bit like performing an exorcism on one’s self?
In some cases, probably.
The only street preacher I’d ever be willing to listen to is Gilbert Gottfried.
Lewis Black would get a couple of minutes my time as well.
Do they preach at the cars going by? confused….
In the not too distant past, aspiring MoGs would stand out in the streets and preach to the throngs of people walking by. Streets were for people, with occasional carriages and horses and buggies.
Today, the aspiring MoGs stand on the street corner preaching to the very few who walk by, scream at the cars (and presumably the occupants in them) telling them they are not saved.
Neither time saw street preaching do much good. At the most, in the past, it gathered a crowd (usually boisterous and disrespectful) and the aspiring MoG went home feeling persecuted for righteousness sake. Alas! in today’s world, getting persecuted is a hard thing to acquire, so the aspiring MoG has to be content with being ignored, or having a few horns blown at him. He can still go home and pray the Elijah prayer, though. “Lord, only I am left ….”
Amen, there, Bro.
Unfortunately sometimes they do find a busy street. In Minneapolis there is a street in the heart of downtown that only allows bus traffic, so there are tons of walkers. I have seen street preachers there many times, and I agree that the ultimate goal is to “feel persecuted” at the end. If they really wanted to minister, they would get off the crate, go up to ONE person, and ask if they could pray for them or something. They also could take a quick trip down to the Union Gospel Mission and serve some meals, but that would be working with people of different theological beliefs so never mind.
On the campus commons of the University of Oklahoma, it’s pedestrian-only and there is this infamous local preacher who shows up randomly a couple of times a week and screams at everyone. He’s a beloved part of campus culture at this point – and no one pays him any attention.
Ahhh, like asking Freddy Krueger to perform delicate heart surgery.
Yes, asking someone to fall in love with Jesus Christ by screaming at them, telling them how bad they are, how much they deserve to be tortured, how worthless and insignificant they are — works wonders, don’tcha think?
He was doing his Larry Brown impression where it’s ok to climb the pulpit.
It was an unintentional object lesson showing how the message is lost in the theatrics.
It was very odd. I’m surprised they don’t get int trouble for that. But I don’t know much about Fundy U’s either…
You wouldn’t want a professor at a state school seeing you standing on his podium like that… Common sense says it’s not right.
I thought he was having a seizure. 😛
Alliteration makes it true
“a place to meet that special someone”
This is where I bring up the running joke of replacing Bible or Baptist with Bridal and calling it “something something Bridal College”.
“A special attraction”–and two guys bump into each other?
Haha, I noticed that too.
yeah, I was wondering if in their attempt at humor as well as the desire for the opposite sexes to stay at a safe distance if they didn’t have a bit of a slip there when two guys meet under the “meet someone special” heading…
What’s the cage thingie that douchebag is talking about? Sounds more than a little kinky.
“The cage” is their basketball arena/men’s chapel area. If you remember a previous video where the boys are being ordered to sing a children’s song that is “The Cage”.
What a strange name. Probably inspired by the MoG’s secret fantasy of a bunch of young sweaty men in a cage maybe?
This video is pure garbage. But so is you calling the young man a “douchebag”. And when I think about it, you as an old man calling the kid a douchebag is probably more a reflection on you than him. Anyway, thanks for the laugh.
The young man has an attitude, that’s for sure. While I will agree with you that he shouldn’t have been called a “d…b…”, still I can understand BJg’s frustration. Lots of arrogance in the young man, and he needs to be called on it.
A fundy calls someone rude crude names and calls it discernment. Very few objections are given. A fundy is called a rude crude name and someone objects that such was uncalled for. Double standard, much?
Still, since the measure we judge with will be the measure we are judged by, I will try to call names less but describe accurately the attitudes and actions more. Thank you for the reminder.
Oh well. My best friend calls me that as a nickname. Seriously. But I probably shouldn’t have called this kid that. You’re right.
WOW!!! Thanks for your very gracious response BJ. I sent my comments without re-reading them. As I re-read them, I felt I came off looking like a jackass (mean & snarky – nice combo).
What I wanted to point out (& didn’t do a good job at it), is the fact that this kid is almost certainly nothing but a tool. From eye-witness accounts, even if this kid bleeds WCBC, nothing goes public about this school without an iron-fisted approval from on high. For me, it’s impossible to think that the kid had any role in determining what he said and how he said it. Such a thing is inconceivable, if certain testimonies are correct (and I have 100% confidence in the individuals with first hand knowledge).
Anyway, thanks again for being gracious.
PS What bothered me the most is I used the words “old man” to describe you. I honestly meant to use “older man”… and ONLY as compared to this incredibly young man. You are clearly a man of “great experience” and I would never want to denigrate the length of this experience!
Mark, you were right, and ‘faithful are the wounds of a friend.’ I am old enough to know better, especially approaching retirement. I feel sorry for this young man–not only has he been the tool of the school’s administration, apparently he was terminated from employment for an all too common failing, and he’s probably found himself looking for how he’s going to support himself.
I get so frustrated with the IFB schools that are unaccredited and are handing out worthless degrees.
As far as my age, on my office door, below my name and job title, a placard says, “Cute Little Old Man”. There’s a long story behind it, but I’ve had it up a long time, and wear it proudly! 🙂
This video is ridiculous but calling an individual you do not know a douchebag is even more ridiculous.
Minuteman, did you actually read the conversation above? A gracious apology was offered. Further discussion ensued regarding the young man. Your reprimand is about 3 days late. The horse is dead. Go beat something else.
I love that it’s two dudes bumping into each other while he talks about meeting that special someone.
More attempt at humor… pretty “edgy”
+10 for the reference to my favorite George (Sorry, pooka George, no insult intended–stay away from my keyboard!).
Cheap humor. Must have left his whoopee cushion in the car.
I just want to know if the eagle will meet “that someone special”.
Just as long as she’s a female eagle and doesn’t wear britches.
About the 1:20 mark, when he walks into a classroom, that’s what I want from a college teacher. To get yelled at, get in my face and physically assault me.
Again, it might just be a failed attempt at humor, but what makes something funny in many cases is the truth behind it. I mean how can you make fun of airplane food unless it really is bad? Again for our younger readers, once upon a time, you got a meal on a flight.
It’s the West Coast equivalent of Bob Hooker or Eddie Lapina teaching their classes.
I still cant help but think the vid is a spoof or a farce. It is farcical by any standard. If it’s for real, the attempt at lighthearted humor fails horribly as a recruiting tool.
And after that meal you got seriously ill.
Ah yes. I remember I had the lasagna.
Surely you’re kidding.
He hates it when you call him that.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
I was wondering about that as well. Why would anyone subject themselves to that?
I think there were several failed attempts at humor. Like they were inside jokes or something.
WCBC is all about the inside jokes. I guarantee this video was played to uproarious laughter in chapel. (Of course, it also helps that with their dinky student body, pretty much everyone knows all of the players in this video’s skits.)
But, yes, WCBC are experts at creating the “insider” mentality that is the hallmark of what makes the IFB a cult.
Just casually watching his video, it looked to me like he was making fun of the West Coast College (or whatever it’s name is…)
And someone please tell me why Fundy college kids think they’re going to meet their soul mate in a Fundy school? I suppose it’s just ingrained in them from kindergarten up… Don’t know… “Thou shalt meet thine future spouse when thou art 19 years old when thou enterest into thine Fundy approved Univesity…. ”
Poor kids. When will the madness stop?
The podium shouting thing made me cringe… Ick! Do they really teach those poor boys to act that way?
Girls in these schools are taught that it is their religious duty to supply these fledgling MOGs with a marriage partner.
The guy who did the video was the poster boy for west coast like 2 years ago. Did all the videos and got all the awards and stuff. He graduated and “went into the ministry”. After like a month he got fired for watching porn
Some time back Jeremy Whitman used to be their poster boy. Looks like that might be a title to avoid.
(I highly recommend reading the 654 comments to this article to learn how others view this business/ministry.)
You can get fired for that? Damn.
I’ll pretend I don’t know anything of what you are talking about, then surreptitiously check my browser history to erase anything incriminating ….
I figured erasing porn from your browser history was one of the first things you learned at Bible College. After all it’s not like the old days when the porn was all in a physical form like magazines, which when you tried ripping them up into little pieces and throwing them out in an obscure garbage can behind the classroom buildings Campus Security would piece them together and report you to the Dean of Men.
Not that I would know anything about that.
That’s not going to help if your employer has spyware.
At work I would occasionally visit HuffingtonPost and the notorious StuffFundiesLike website.
Normally in the IFB you can cheat on your wife with an underaged female and move on to another “ministry”. Unscathed.
That’s the thing about computer porn, though – it’s a lot harder to blame the victim in that scenario. In most churches, an internet porn addition is sufficiently creepy to give all but the most entrenched MOGs the boot.
hmmmm….Several of those type of boys have done this… yes….
He didn’t get fired for watching porn. Get your facts straight.
On what grounds was the termination of his employment?
Dear SFL Reader:
If the soul is the main thing, why did Jesus come with a body?
Because he wanted to show us that he could stoop down to our level and be burdened with a meat bag and still beat us at our game of not sinning.
No. We needed a Savior who could feel our sorrows, know our limitations, and understand us. We needed a God who could have compassion, not judgment.
It is not about beating us at not sinning! Why Jesus Himself spoke of the sins of others (David eating shewbread, etc) and justified the people based on the need. Because the law was made for man, not man for the law.
Life isn’t about sinning or not sinning.
Because the law was made for man, not man for the law.
Life isn’t about sinning or not sinning.
I really like this – I think I’ll be pondering it for a while…
I think keep on was being sarcastic.
Mark, I am sure you are right. But at the point I read it, it sounded so much like things I heard from my stay in fundystan that I reacted to it that way.
“He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.” How many times have I heard this used to club people who have sinned? Instead of using it as the jumping point for mercy, it is used as an excuse for judgment.
So thank you for the note. I am not completely sarcasm-deaf, but it is a challenge at times.
SOOO true: so many verses of Scripture were used as an excuse to judge not as a prelude to the mercy and grace we need.
The beauty of the Gospel was constantly obscured by the demands of legalism.
Some things to look at:
1. I love the guy climbing the pulpit trying to “preach”. He definitely stole this from IFB comedian Larry Brown. I bet he becomes the next comedian in the Fundy World and a disciple of Brown.
2. The dude keeps saying “Find that special someone” at least 10 times as if WCBC is a dating game.
3. Jack Hyles would not approve but Jack Schaap liked the California Fundy schools.
4. The dude mentions the music program but the fundy college with the best music program is at Golden State Baptist because Jack Trieber said it was as did comedian Tony Hutson.
5. The dude seriously needs to go “soul winning” in a L.A. gay bar! Schaap’s orders!
Sadly there is an ounce of truth behind every joke here. Otherwise it would not be in the video, screaming teachers, cold discontent people, crazy preacher man, this is funny to them because they exist in a lesser degree at places like West Coast
I plead the fifth because they didn’t show an girl in the video. Or like Hyles said during the 1920’s “gangster” Youth Conference; “You goils better not wear any britches”
While out of town, heard a message about soul-winning that was hitting it pretty heavy. He said, somewhere in the message, that “Jesus was so burdened for the souls of men… He carried a very heavy burden.”
My (rebellious? thinking?) mind flew to Matt 11, where Jesus Himself said “…my burden is light.”
Not letting the facts get in the way, we were exhorted to be burdened for souls, and not to have our hands dripping with the blood of the lost, and many other manipulative statements… oh, yes, and the “Who did you tell about this Savior this week?” question.
I’m glad you were able to counter what you heard with the Bible. So often preachers chose a phrase of Scripture to support their own personal hobby-horse instead of presenting a balanced view.
Amen… Well said.
Wow… way out of context. Jesus was referring to the “burden” of following him, not the burden he bore. To say that burden was light is almost blasphemous.
But Paul, I think, talks quite a bit about bearing a heavy burden for souls. (In so many words.) It’s been interesting to me lately to learn that there is a pretty extensive body of scholarship out there articulating the differences between Pauline Christianity and the Christianity of the Gospels.
Oh! The “blood on the hands” thing again. My mom was absolutely shocked when I proved to her that there is nothing in scripture about those who consciously choose to not witness to people having the blood of the unsaved dripping from their hands at judgment day.
“Train men to be under control…”
*He says, while walking past a room with a man literally standing on the podium yelling.
“Drawn to” (while two men walk by)
Do they now support gay marriage?!?
Other than that, it might have given me motion sickness.
Something tells me they don’t let women attend this prison/school. There are no women in the video and in the previous video the women weren’t in chapel. They really do no how to separate church and state at West Coast.
Three unhappy women at the :54 mark.
Yeah, noticed that too… Strange… Looked snobby…
Maybe they had bumped into that “special someone.”
Women most definitely attend WCBC. After all, who else are these college men supposed to marry?
Also, remember the recent post from two female WCBC students who were not allowed to exit the building during a fire drill until their clothing complied with WCBC’s strict dress standards?
So while women’s lives certainly matter less to leadership, they are allowed to attend (and bait men into attending the school – cause they need to find a wife to be an effective Fundy pastor…. Haaayyymen?!).
Whose findeth a wife who can play the piano findeth the best thing.
(Cue Edith Bunker trying to find the right chord)
I agree with so many that the humor one uses often betrays ones’ beliefs:
~what does it look like for a man to be under the control of the Holy Spirit? Climbing a pulpit, waving a Bible, hitting the pulpit, violently waving ones arms, and yelling in the face of those listening to you. Oddly enough the fruit of the Spirit does not seem to look like any of that.
~a top notch music ministry that looks like family? 3 girls quietly leaving a room. Because music ministry and children’s ministry are the only acceptable areas for women to be found.
That’s a publicly released video? As in, they’re using it to try to attract students to the school???
I finished watching that with my mouth agape…nothing about that was funny, made the school look good (quite the opposite actually), or even told me anything about it, other than people go to either preach or find a spouse.
This. Is West Coast. But what he didn’t say is This. Is one weird place.
Thing is, to those already familiar and comfortable with what we consider bizarre or insane, the details are nothing worse than ‘quirky’ – just weird enough to joke about awkwardly.
It’s weird…that’s for sure….
I took it as a joke against the school… Kinda like a Saturday Night Live bit…
It needs laugh tracks. There’s nothing funny in the video. Anywhere.
This is an official video, in that it was posted under their account. So yeah, it is meant to be a funny appeal to teens to choose WCBC as their personal Fundy U.
we are obviously not the intended or focus audience. This video is probably full of inside fundamentalism jokes and when you are seeing it from the outside of fundamentalism the jokes are not really that funny. But they don’t care whether we find it funny or not. They are interested in those fundamentalist youth who are sheltered from the outside world and would find this funny.
I have two competing theories on this. First one is: if they are trying to attract the kind of student who would find this funny, it’s a scary thought that there are kids like that out there. Second one is: I don’t think that they are actually trying to attract many students because they know most WCBC kids are sent and do not go by choice. Therefore, this video is simply intended to ease the pain a bit by lamely attempting to show that WCBC is totes funnnn so you should totally cooperate with your parents’ and pastor’s demands that you go there!
“I don’t think that they are actually trying to attract many students because they know most WCBC kids are sent and do not go by choice.”
You are probably right on this.
“Young men are trained to be under the control of the Holy Spirit.”
Apparently the Holy Ghost leads people to climb on top of pulpits and scream, just like the book of Acts describes.
Absolutely! The Holy Spirit doesn’t believe in sobriety, but in convincing others its puppets, uh, (scratch that!), uh, the people of God are falling down stark-raving crazy drunk.
Oh, and climate change deniers, and “science is of the devil” asserters and health care deniers. Take away peoples’ health insurance under Obamacare! If people want to be healed, they either have to have cash or faith. God never provided health care for his people!
I heard a preacher say something several years ago that struck home with me.
He said that we have a “Holy Ghost” today who is doing what Jesus said the Holy Ghost wouldn’t do. Jesus said, ‘He will not speak of Himself.’ The Holy Ghost we are seeing today is drawing attention to Himself and not to Jesus.
He went on to say that the Holy Ghost we see isn’t doing what Jesus said He would do, “He will judge the world of sin, and righteousness, and judgment.”
We aren’t seeing these people being convicted of their hate and spite, and their hidden sins of dishonesty, and the child molestation. and the self-aggrandizement.
So that leaves us with a question.
Is the Holy Ghost not doing His job?
Or is the spirit that motivates these people not really the Holy Ghost?
Wow. Quite the thought.
Don’t sit in the front pew with this young man! With all the p-p-p-p-p pee words he was pumping out, you’d get drenched!
Hmmm. The camera and the fanboy pass through an underutilized classroom with a severely troubled teacher.
Hopefully, there are as few students at WCBC as are shown in the video.
What’s up with the fat dude in the red shirt screaming at the hapless skinny dudes in the front row of that class room?
I tried to think back to my younger years so as to conjure up the same positive feelings and expressions of awe I had when I first visited BJU…
It didn’t work.
So glad I’m at the Grandparent age now!!! No…more…stress…. from those mean ole Fundies…. : )
Wow, I want to go there – a college that is an office building.
In today’s recycling market, stores in strip malls become churches. Shopping centers become extensions of colleges, manufacturing facilities are turned into learning centers (the jobs have been shipped overseas to give the investors more profits. What else are the workers going to do?). And office buildings, long abandoned by the original owners, are purchased for a song to create another institution of Christian training. Get out your wallets. Credit cards are cheerfully accepted. Go into debt to support the “ministry.”
My church is in a strip mall…..
Just do it online….
I don’t seem to have watched the same videos as most of you. BUT how about the first video I watched? Above the singers were two large (long) saws. In most churches you see a cross somewhere in the c hurch, but saws? Why have two saws hung above the stage?? Cut down you own tree? Ohh Welll…………
The main thing is soul winning. Assuming, of course, that you are saved and your victim (errr, friend) is lost, that you are right in nearly everything and he is wrong in nearly everything, that you have everything of worth and he has nothing of worth.
It is all so, so, ego-tripping. You, by winning *souls* are saving them from an eternity of torture. They *owe* you. And you will humbly, oh so very very humbly cast your crown at the Savior’s feet. And later the Lord will set you on a throne in His Kingdom to rule as He will, with a rod of iron. How exalting! It makes you giddy! No wonder you jump on the desks, shout, holler, and jerk about like an epileptic! The imagination cannot contain all the glories imagined!
You never admit to the raptures, of course. You always remember to have the humble attitude. At least while others are around! The MoG, as the organizer gets his share of the credit, of course, almost like an AMWAY pyramid scheme!
It really helps if you can assume that you perfectly understand the Bible, or at least everything about Salvation. It helps if you can assume that as a bona-fide, card-carrying Com…., uh, as a member of one of the biggest and best (ahem) ministries in the nation that you can judge the spiritual status of those around you.
Many will say unto me in that day, Lord, Lord! Did we not in your name do all this great, wonderful and spiritual stuff? Look at how utterly good we were!
It does seem that each of the points in the video is meant to be ironic.
Number one thing is preaching -> crazy guy on pulpit
Our music ministry is like family -> 3 girls not talking to each other
Special someone -> 2 guys say hi
Passion for athletics -> drill sergeant teacher
Amazing mascot -> gets taken into class
I don’t see this appealing to anyone other than someone who already wanted to there in the first place.
Okay, so the steadycam tracking someone as they walk down the hallway of a creepy building was used by Stanley Kubrick to much more compelling effect in The Shining.
What’s sad about the guy standing on the pulpit ranting and raving is that it seems to be intended as a joke and yet when a preacher actually acts like that in real life, everyone takes it perfectly seriously and perceives this as a special sign of God’s anointing.
The music teams at WCBC are notorious – but not for infighting among the group members. Rather, my sister (who was on “tour group” for two summers) reports that the married couple that is assigned to chaperone is given a special expense account just for their own personal use to go out to eat at nice restaurants and buy new clothes and pay for entertainment and stay at nice hotels, etc. Meanwhile, the team members are shoehorned into church members’ spare bedrooms and basements, forced to eat off the charity of churches, have their clothes picked out for them by Paul Chappell’s daughter (who, I am told, is the last word in fashion at WCBC and has a penchant for brightly colored shoes that clash with the rest of the outfit – one summer it was navy dresses with bright yellow shoes), and are basically treated to the ultimate in sucky deputation-style life.
Well, I suppose that is one way to bribe the chaperoning couple into touring.
And they will send the WCBC Tour Group to pretty shady churches. I hope none of those ladies ever had to stay at Mark Chappell’s house.
And if a tour group member is given any monetary gift (even personal) it is immediately taken and given to the college.
There are instances where church members gave them money so they could eat out, and the chaperone took the money and reported it all to the college, the tour group got nothing! This type of action makes my blood boil.
That is infuriating. A gift for food?
Well, as we keep saying, follow the money.
Now, I understand that some employers do not allow employees to accept expensive gifts from clients to maintain their integrity (avoiding bribes) – but we are just talking about a little food money here. Even these companies allow clients to buy them dinner on occasion.
That was almost as ridiculous as the videos made by Golden State.
Their attempt at humor is cheap, however their media is pretty damn good
It’s the 21st century version of whitewashing the sepulchre.
They put a lot of money into media…I would venture to guess more money than they spend helping the homeless and hungry in their city.
Is this a parody video?
That’s one of the IFB’er terms I dislike…”soul winner/winning”. First of all, people do NOT “win” souls, ONLY the Holy Spirit. We’re just to share the Gospel and the Holy Spirit will move as He will. Secondly, it gives glory to people…not the Lord.