This is a Friendship Request Form from Providence Baptist College which may seem a little odd until you realize that boys and girls who want to “court” have to get permission from the college admin.
The problem is, of course, that that not a lot of kids wanted to make the comittment required to fill out a “Courtship Courtesy Request Form.” Since too many students were refusing to fill out the CCRF early in their relationships (and claimed “just friends” status) the friendship request form was born.
There’s no word on whether they also have “eyes met across a crowded room” or “just really wishing she’d notice me” forms.
166 thoughts on “The Friendship Pass”
Happy new year! And first
I’ll take a pass on this one.
You’ll need to fill out the form to get a pass.
The “no I won’t” isn’t for you Scorpio.
That was in response to my first response… the more I thought about it the angrier I became. This crap is crammed down the throats of young adults and forced to be swallowed as godly religion… and it pisses me off.
How do you teach trust?
How do you teach responsibility?
All this totalitarian BS does is teach behavioral modification principles. There will be those who fall in line and become Stepford Drones, ones who play the game and learn to hide, cover-up and lie, and ones who see it for what it is and rebel against the inherent corruptness this system enforces.
They don’t have to compass sea and land to seek out proselytes… by use of their Higher Cult Learning centers they have them flocking in for advanced indoctrination.
👿 👿 👿 😥
Don’t forget those who game the system to backstab and brown-nose their way to the top. Those whose goal is to Hold the Whip instead of Feel the Whip. And when you bring GAWD into the picture for cosmic justification by Divine Right.
“The only goal of Power is POWER.”
— Comrade O’Brian, Inner Party, Airstrip One, Oceania, 1984
No I won’t.
This is ridiculous. 👿
This screams “CULT.”
This shouts “CONTROL.”
This says You Students are unable to be trusted and must be treated like kids… no… prisoners.
We know best! You are on our property and we can’t have anything that appears worldly going on here.
Most of all this proclaims in no uncertain terms that the god they claim to follow is a pathetically weak god who requires perfection in his followers because there is no place for grace, forbearance, compassion, empathy… only instant, willing, (under threat of punishment) obedience to the rules the Morality Managers put in place. This is the results of creating god in man’s own image. Moralism trumps the Gospel, Love and Grace.
Even with the best of intentions it sends the message that god is more concerned about how things appear outwardly rather than the inward condition of the heart. It is a formula for creating whited sepulchers, and shiny chamber pots.
“Hello, I’m an adult in college. I can vote, and I can join the military and be responsible for millions of dollars of equipment and the lives of other people. But I need permission to have a friend.” Completely twisted. 😥
This sort of Friendship is definitely NOT Magic.
Excellent reply, Don. Good points.
exactly. Where do we see Jesus hovering over the disciples and controlling them like this? It is a cult. It is a system built on fear not grace.
Jesus himself had a few female friends, IIRC. Did anyone sign off on his pass? Hmmmmm?
Seriously, this is absolutely the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of. Are we sure this isn’t from some sort of fundie-style Onion or something? I can’t even find the words to go off on it.
Now all I have to think of is a witty or insightful comment to justify my juvenille “first” claim.
Do they have a “Wish she’d talk to me but I am too scared of girls to respond when she does” pass?
Why yes I was homeschooled, how did you know?
…Because I was homescholed as well 😥
…Because I was homeschooled as well 🙄
And the nervous double checking that resulted in me posting that twice should be proof.
comes frome being homescolded….
Yep, that was me. Fortunately a couple of them did notice me. I married the first one.
Damn, not even third!
“Providence” – to see ahead – I guess that’s why there’s that space on the form ot fill in when the friendship ends.
What about a “making eye babies” form?
In regards to Eye Babies, could glasses be considered optical condoms? 😛
But I would love to hear the reaction in Admin if a student ever used *that* defense!
Well, in the service you get issued the big, ugly plastic frames (if you continue with the glasses- they’re also doing RK surgery on soldiers), the sort that will hold up if and when you run a tank over them. And they’re known as BCGs- Birth Control Glasses- because it’s hard to have lustful thoughts with glasses that ugly…
I was going to ask that!
Why would a chaperone be required to befriend someone? That shows an even more abnormal sense of relationship than most Fundies possess.
If Fundies and sense can be used properly in the same sentence.
Brief description of activity: Yes, it will be brief. Very.
We will need a detailed AAR on this activity. Blow by blow, even.
Well, for the first 10 minutes, we didn’t hold hands; I chatted with the chaperones. As I was helping her on with her jacket, my hand accidentally brushed the back of her neck. She realized it was an error and did not slap me.
We went out to a place approved by Keith Gomez; we did not hold hands during the drive, nor at the restaurant. I won’t be using that chaperone again, as he ordered the most expensive item on the menu.
We didn’t hold hands on the way home, and she said a coy good night to me. Went home and was quizzed by my three roommates, so this AAP was in my mind.
copious use of alcohol can indefinitely delay any activity at all! 🙂
The bigger question might be-Why does every fundy pastor think they need to start a college? What qualifies someone to be the founder of an “Institute Of Higher Learning”?
Took a look at their “academic” schedule for the coming semester for all students. In the basic academic subjects (math, science, English), they go as far as maybe a 1st year education equivalence to a run-of-the-mill junior college or state university. And I would bet a steak dinner their “Biology” and “Astronomy/Geology” courses fall far short of what one would learn in another institution. I can make a pretty good guess as to what the subject matter of the majority of these “science” classes is.
Every fundy pastor needs to start their own schools because:
a. the secular, ungodly schools are too dangerous for their young people. They’ll be deceived right into hell.
b. because the fundy school down the road teaches a heresy–which can be any number of things–they could preach a different view of the rapture and end times–heresy!, they could allow women to cut their hair–heresy!, they could use something other than an organ in worship–heresy!, they could teach once saved always saved or not preach once saved always saved–heresy!
When every minute thing you believe becomes a fundamental–you have to start your own school so the people can be taught the right thing, not how to think on their own or have their doctrines questioned.
They’re so scared that young people will hear something different and leave their church. But the thing is, if they themselves didn’t separate over EVERYTHING, if they had a more open-handed attitude on certain things, people wouldn’t feel they HAD to leave when they started taking slightly different positions on things.
I do believe a church should hold to certain foundational doctrines. But when those “doctrines” include how to cut one’s hair or how to vote or how to spend one’s leisure time, allowing no room for personal liberty, that church ends up needlessly alienating people.
Instead of isolating young people in order to keep them, they could just change their attitude and allow people to exercise the priesthood of the believer and allow for more flexibility in non-essential areas.
I completely agree. I am a college student who chose to go to a secular college and was recently alienated from my parents’ church because of the length of my skirts. (And we are talking professional length skirts here, not mini skirts– but the hem did fall a little above the knee.)Rather than let the pastor try to use my father to control everything I wear even now that I’m an adult, I had to leave. My father was told that I was a bad reflection on the ministry,so it follows that if I had stayed, his job at the Christian school would have been in jeopardy.
Basically, although I would have probably continued attending that church in order to see my old friends and my family, the church leadership would rather have me gone than have me there. All because of my skirt.
Thankfully, my boyfriend left the church with me, and we have explored some other options. Currently, though, we do not go to church on a regular basis at all.
Wow, Katie. I guess that attitude says it all. I’m sorry for your experience, but it is probably working out for the better.
Wow. And alienating someone because of skirt length is *such* a good way of demonstrating Christ’s unconditional love and redemption…
I feel your pain! Your parent’s church – it was a skirt. My parent’s church – it was wearing something other than clear mascara. I wore brown. It was a huge huge huge huge thing. My mom still gets grief from it – on top of the commentary regarding my going to secular university.
I hope you find someplace (if you’re looking for it) that accepts you as you are!
I suspect that a big motivator for starting a Bible college is that other churches will send you their best workers for you to train. You get their money and their labor for four years! They help you build your little fiefdom and they get subpar training and a useless diploma. It sounds like a good scam to me.
Exactly. This is what I think the primary motivator is… and if your best people are really good, the school/church may make an effort to keep them.
It also might be some kind of a status symbol among the fundy brothers. “Hey look at me I run a college!”
That’s what baffles me about even calling this kind of thing “fundamentalism.” You’ve got one crowd loudly proclaiming that they are hewing to the bedrock fundamentals of Christianity and then going into schism over who wears what on their lower half. Meanwhile, my crowd are over here adding on to the one true Biblical faith by leading the flock astray into . . . um . . . the Apostles’ Creed.
“The bigger question might be-Why does every fundy pastor think they need to start a college?”
That and “Everybody’s Doing It”.
I wonder if they realize the verses they use to for their defense of the 1611 are in my NIV, NASB, ESV, NKJV, RSV, ASV, & etc.
… and are more accurately rendered in English in most cases.
And we wonder why adult fundamentalists do not know how to play well with others. They don’t know how to relate to people because they have always been hovered over by an authoritarian figure.
And this answers why they seem to gravitate towards pastors who are overbearing, overstepping and abusive. They don’t know how to live and think on their own because they were raised with overbearing and overstepping church organizations.
What parent would say this is a good place to send your kid?
A parent would send his child to this school if they wanted a tight reign kept on him.
Did you mean “reign” instead of “rein”? Because if fits really well.
I did mean “rein”… you’re right; “reign” works, but it wasn’t what I meant.
Maybe Providence leadership should institute a note-passing system.
Do you like me? (check yes or no)
May I speak with you after class?
Will you be my friend?
If you are going to treat them like small children, do it properly.
That pretty much is their system, except that each exchange of notes has to be approved by a Dean.
I am sure that prospective students don’t know the level of control until they have already paid their money. I doubt they lead with these forms on the registration applications. They suck you in and then give you these controls a little at a time and make you feel as though you are really unreasonable to be protesting. It is, after all, for your own safety, etc. *We CARE about our girls… blah blah blah* I don’t know how many times I heard that when I was at HAC “We care for our girls and their reputations, that is why we keep them locked up.”
I grew up in an over-protective, controlling household. When I got to Fundy U I was subjected to some pretty weird rules. Paradoxically though, I thought I was freed from my shackles and to some extent I was.
I suspect that this Fundy U probably gets most, if not all, of their students from similar backgrounds to mine. If you grow up in a household where you are spied on constantly, accused of the most awful sins when you are caught sitting up at night listening to preaching tapes and generally treated like a dimwitted child into your late teens you will feel quite liberated going to a place like this.
In other words, yes this is controlling and obnoxious but a lot of these kids probably won’t even notice that for years. They probably are like me and are just glad to have friends at all even if they need permission.
Yes to all of this, AOW! I went to Fairhaven — a den of oppression if ever there was one — and for the first time in my life, I wasn’t being beaten, screamed at or otherwise physically and emotionally abused. Spiritual abuse was literally NBD to me because I’d survived far, far worse. Talk about freedom!
But of course, it wasn’t freedom. Still, for me, it was the first step on the road out.
PP: I’d be really interested to know what percentage of the SFL community were subjected to physical abuse at the hands of their parents, then were sent off to a fundy U. I know that was the case for me as well. Having been through that did make the rules less onerous once on campus.
I daresay a large minority given the fact that so many fundamentalist churches preach that abusive “disciplinary” techniques are the only way to save your child’s soul.
BJG and PP,
We are all different and come from different backgrounds. I am convinced that my background was abusive. I lived in constant fear of beatings and got them for the tiniest infractions. Often for doing things that normal kids do.
I think that is why the permission slip requires both parties parent’s phone number. As a child of fundies I didn’t fear demerits as much as I feared Fundy U calling my parents.
Sorry, AOW. Wasn’t implying that we were all alike but rather that I didn’t doubt that more than a few of us have abusive backgrounds. Each of us has a unique story to tell.
PP and AoW, I sympathize with both of you, since I was raised in a similar way. Physical & mental abuse (screaming, etc) with some sort of biblical justification being cited. “Spare the rod” or some such rot. It’s a wonder I didn’t turn out an atheist, but my life isn’t over yet.
Sorry, George ate half my thought. (George also made me take cold medicine yesterday)
Anyway, what I meant to say was that we are all different but our experiences are frighteningly similar. I find it amazing how many people share stories that sound like they were copied from my own life.
Bald, you would have to define ‘abusive’ since some view any type of spanking as physical abuse and any raising of the voice as verbal and emotional abuse.
Dear Growing in Grace,
A baby is lying on a changing table, crying.
Said baby won’t stop crying.
Dad stands over baby, slapping him so hard that he rolls from one end of the table to the other.
Repeat process over and over.
GiG, this was my home of origin. And when I say abuse, I don’t think I have to justify my definition of abuse to someone else, having spent 26 years in law enforcement.
Thanks for asking.
Persnickety, your post spoke volumes.
I grew up in a very abusive and violent household. So when I went to BJU, I felt a large measure of freedom. Not, of course, that it was freedom, but it wasn’t the overt abuse I’d been used to.
And for the first time in my life I had the freedom to question my beliefs! Since I grew up in a household whose views were far more radically right than BJU (right even to those of Pensacola!), I went back home that first year far more “liberal” than my parents liked. They were distressed that I had gone there, but since they weren’t paying for it, there wasn’t much they could do about it.
BJU was my first real step toward becoming the liberal I am today. Once you get into the habit of examining your beliefs and become willing to change on the basis of evidence, you really can’t stop. And BJU opened that door pretty wide. I came in a KJV only fanatic. I went out reading other versions of the Bible. Imagine!
I learned so many other things as well, the most critical of which is that no one is always right. No one. Can’t think of a more subversive idea than that one!
AoW, PP, BJg, & others:
I’m sorry we all experienced abuse in the name of Jesus, from the very ones who were supposed to keep us safe from harm. I wish continued healing for all of us.
By the way, Growing in Grace, sexual harassment is abusive. If you smacked another adult on the bum, the victim is within their rights to file a sexual harassment complaint against you.
It’s even worse when done to someone smaller & defenseless. So yeah, I’m one of those people who considers any spanking to be abuse.
One more thing: we’re all different. Things one person finds incredibly damaging may be an annoyance to someone else. If a person says they were abused, then they were. You don’t get to step in and ask them to define it for you.
GrowinginGrace: Perhaps you’re right. Perhaps none of us really experienced genuine abuse.
What do I call abuse?
An out-of-control woman beating a little girl who had dropped a jaw of peanut butter while making breakfast for herself and her sister. Beating her so hard that she had a cut lip. Beating her and leaving bruises all over her little body.
A mother who accuses her six-year-old of being a whore and a slut when the mother found out the child had been molested. Telling her that she’d never be good for anything now and that no one would ever love or want her because she was so disgusting and dirty.
A father who walks in on his child being blistered, the mother’s favorite term for a spanking that leaves welts, and instead of finding out what’s going on or what the child even did to deserve the beating, joins in on the fun and games.
A woman who breaks her teen daughter’s nose and then shoves her into a cold shower while still beating her because said daughter “mouthed off” at her.
A mother who strikes her daughter so hard that she damages the long thoracic nerve and leaves her child permanently disfigured.
You’re free to call any of that “discipline.” And I’d be just as free to call you an abuser.
Bald and Persnickety, there was absolutely nothing about my comment that warranted such hateful and dishonest responses from the two of you. The thought exists, and I have read comments on this very site equating any type of spanking to abuse, which I believe is insulting to people who have suffered true physical abuse. However, the way we define abuse will affect the percentages that Bald was looking for. Unlike fundies, who immediately try to shut down real or preceived opposing viewpoints, and refuse to engage, I am willing to engage the topic in honest conversation and listen to all viewpoints.
Dear Growing in Grace,
“Bald and Persnickety, there was absolutely nothing about my comment that warranted such hateful and dishonest responses from the two of you.”
Thank you for reminding me why I left fundamentalism so long ago. Like a true fundy, when cogent arguments fail to occur to you, you attack their character, even their honesty. Wow.
That shows some real growth in grace.
It was absolutely hateful growing up like that. I’m sorry, though, that it was difficult for you to read about our experiences. I can promise you that scratch the surface and you will find that quite a few of us have suffered similar abuses and hurts.
As for dishonest, well, I guess I understand that sometimes it’s easier to call other people liars than it is to acknowledge that yes, evil exists and sometimes it exists right under our very noses, in our next-door neighbor’s house or even in the pew right next to us. But just because it’s easier doesn’t make it right.
Bald, you accused me of trying to make you justify yourself and Persnickety accused me of denying that she had ever been abused. Again, if you can show where I did that in my original post, I will admit my error. And save the “you’re acting like a fundy” rhetoric. We’re not 5.
Oh, wow, sorry. I can see that it must be awful to have to deal with false accusations when all you’re trying to do is explain to us that a little godly spanking isn’t all that bad.
And you know what? I agree. A little spanking between consenting adults can even be pretty fun. But I don’t think it’s cool to spank kids, no. Regardless, that’s not what anyone here was talking about, and I rather suspect you knew that.
Growing in Grace, your initial question did not straight out say that you didn’t believe PP or Bald Jones Grad, but coming in where you did in that particular conversation was really jarring. Previous comments had already spoken of beatings and screaming, stuff so bad that a strict college felt like freedom in comparison. So asking your question in that context comes across as a bit insulting.
It was your second response that was way over the top: calling what they wrote “hateful and dishonest” is inaccurate and unfair. What they described was heart-rending and horrible. That you read that and yet chose to take personal offense was really surprising to me. I keep going back and rereading their first responses to your question and it was nowhere near as personal or as insulting as you seem to think it was. I actually felt that your accusing them of being horrible and dishonest was actually much worse than anything they wrote or implied about you.
BJG and PP, your stories made my skin crawl. I am so, so sorry that anyone experienced that and had it called “loving” or “biblical.” May God bless and restore and comfort anyone who experienced that kind of abuse.
After reading through the exchange, I think people beat up on Growing in Grace.
All she/he did was ask for clarification and got jumped on for it.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, since I don’t visit every day and I post here even less than that.
Dear Growing in Grace,
I understand why you would question what people call abuse. In Fundamentalism, the trend has always been to sneer at claims of abuse. I know people who believe that Roloff did everything good and right at his “homes” in Texas, and who believe that all the reports of abuse are from wicked and unrepentant sinners who are rebelling against God.
I know people who think that spanking is just fine. Even beating. They see Scripture such as “thou shalt beat him with a rod; he shall not die. Thou wilt save his soul from hell…” (from memory, not perfect) and believe that without perfect submission the child is damned.
My parents spanked me. Now I was treated better than my dad was treated. He literally got the horse whip from his grandfather. He grew up bitter and angry. So did I. My spankings were almost always done in anger, done to inflict hurt, to show me who was boss and to try to convince me to acquiesce to authority at all times. It wasn’t until I was 18 that the spankings (beatings) stopped.
And yes, I spanked — beat — my own children. In anger. But always with the words of the preacher in mind that I had to break their spirit of rebellion. Eventually one son called the police and Social Services intervened. I was forced for the first time to look at my behavior from a different perspective.
And when I went to my Pastor and Assistant Pastor for help, they stood me up in front of the church (discipline, although they didn’t tell what I did) and took away my place as a deacon. And they NEVER gave us one bit of help in the situation. Not one bit. And yes, I am still bitter about it.
So I looked at my past and realized I was reacting like my dad. I had always hated his abuse, but I was replicating it on my children. I had to go back and call it what it was — abuse. I had to understand my own anger and response. And I had to realize that trying to heat the hell out of my sons was not going to save them.
It damaged them. Now I have apologized. I have tried to make amends. But I still see the results. I just hope I stopped in time for them to be able to break the cycle of violence with their children.
To me, spanking is abuse. One decides to spank because of anger or offense. One spanks because you know it will inflict hurt and is retribution. One spanks to try to establish Control and Mastery. Discipline is so much different.
I know where you are, Growing in Grace. I, too, was skeptical of claims of abuse. Now I know it is prevalent and far more accepted than we realize.
I am with Pastor’s wife on this one. No one was ganging up on GrowinGrace. Having asked people for their definition of abuse, GG needs to learn how to appropriately deal with responses which show that they are remembering something very negative (and yes, abusive!). Did she expect that people were going to respond with definitions that reflected abuse in a positive light? THAT would have been dishonest. Frankly, I now want Grace’s definition of abuse if she can make it something positive enough to withstand her own scrutiny and not warrant me telling her she is “dishonest and hateful and bitter and rebellious” for defining it after I asked her to! 😕
Exactly my experience growing up. PCC was freedom in comparison. Yes, they had rules and suspicions but it wasn’t my own father accusing me of things. I stayed under the radar at school and lived a freer life.
Yep. I remember getting baled out because my dad found a radio under my pillow – which of course meant I was listening to the Devil’s rock music. I was actually listening to ice hockey. Imagine going to a school where I could listen to the radio boldly in the middle of my dorm room! Too bad there was only baseball on…
(bawled, not baled)
I was imagining some exotic farm-type punishment that would leave you stranded in a field.
Pastor’s wife, thank you for the kind words. It’s not easy for those of us of the male gender to talk about abuse from childhood. That’s probably one reason that (statistically) we die earlier than females.
Bald, I had a similar upbringing, and my brothers suffered too. Neither of them will talk about it. And both of them are now atheist.
Bald, my brothers don’t talk much about the abuses, either. When they do, the abuse is either downplayed or presented in a humorous light (as much as can be).
Both claim belief in God at this point, but I know it’s a struggle to hold onto faith.
I also know personally how frustrating & hurtful it is when others question the veracity of your assertions of abuse. I’m sorry that it continues to happen. Please know that for every person who questions your claims, there are likely a dozen more people here on SFL who experienced similar home lives and have no doubt your statements are true.
Reading back through the thread, I may have overreacted. I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to anyone outside of my wife and siblings about our family’s abuse. In my heart I didn’t because I expected that the default position of the listener would be skepticism or disbelief. So I’ve kept mostly quiet for a long time. Growing in Grace’s question triggered that, and it may well not have been their intent to do so.
I apologize for being rude to Growing in Grace. I didn’t intend to be nasty, hateful or hurtful, but I was angry at the implications.
Whenever you think fundies can’t get any weirder they always do.
I wasn’t raised Fundy and went to a secular university–though I have very Fundy relatives–so much of what gets reported here is waaaaay outside my personal experience.
Four of my siblings have attended a certain college on the west coast, and my sister was an RA (She is now the assistant to the Vice President) My brother started dating a girl but there was some sort of issue about them dating. At their wedding reception, she had a book that chronicled the story of their relationship. I don’t remember it all, but there was something about the administration thinking that they were too young, or not ready, or something, so the administration called both sets of parents and they were put on some sort of restriction so that they could have no contact for a year. (That’s a good way to start building communication for your upcoming marriage 🙄 My future sister-in-law spent hours in my sister’s room (since she was the RA) crying and begging for help to understand. They finally agreed that it was God’s will to follow the authority that God had put in their lives.
My brother and his wife have now been married for 4 years, and I think everything is good, but it’s still appalling.
PS I attended a different Fundy U very close to HAC, but I never dated. The boys had to get permission from the Dean to ask a girl out, and I’ve heard from several of them recently on FB that when they tried to get permission to date me, the Dean said that I was not a good girl for someone who wanted to be in the ministry because I wasn’t serious enough about the things of God. They also thought that I was “too opinionated” because I argued with the Baptist Distinctives teacher about Baptist Bride. None of those guys, BTW, are in “the ministry” today, but I still feel like I dodged a bullet. Who knows what would have happened if I had been deemed “worthy”?
I never dated there, either. 🙂 I don’t know if it was because I was unworthy or if it was because I wasn’t attractive to fundy boys, lol, and I never really cared all that much. In the end, I married a nice Lutheran boy of whom they ALL would have disapproved. 😀
Hello, fellow former Fairhaveners! Wonder if we know each other? In reply to an earlier comment also….I was from an abusive and neglectful secular home. The severely legalistic church seemed sparkley and…don’t laugh….caring. Fairhaven seemed so “grown-up.”. Gag!
Maybe! My sister and I both attended there. I only lasted one year, though, because I tended to make waves with my opinions. Was there in 91/92.
I was a later attendee by a few years…was it a younger sister? During the bathtub baptism of T., the leaving of Behrens, and lots of other stuff. We just left our bju feeder church about 3 months ago so it took me quite while to come out of it even after the growing discontent. Certain family members still think we’ve gone off the bitter deep end…attending a church that allows “worldly” music being one of the surest signs. I have promised myself that will not let them send their eldest to bj without a targeted talk from me. Sigh.
Whoa….I also went to that college on the left coast, and I think your brother was my roommate my freshman year. I remember that story of the year with no contact, and it being utterly bizarre to me. Did he by chance work on the “blue crew”, have flaming red hair, and is now (or at least, last I heard) serving at a church in Texas?
“Big Bang Theory” anyone?
This is soooo Sheldon Cooper!
At the bible college I attended, we also needed permission. For everything. You couldn’t even leave campus to go to the local Baptist Book Store without permission AND a chaperone.
Really, who is going to honesty fill out the form: “Brief description of activity” by saying “Inappropriate touching, alternating with some energetic french kissing”?
Whatever the intention, this kind of surveillance and repression does not lead to obedience but rather begets clever evasions. I got to second base with my girlfriend (now my wife of nearly 24 yrs.!) at bible college. She had to wear a turtleneck for a week, but other than that no harm done. 😀
At Fundy U everything, EVERYTHING, is about sex. Music = sex, movies = sex, dancing = sex. Friendship = sex. I wish sometime, somewhere, a father would beat the ever loving crap out of some school administrator for accusing their daughter (or son) of “sex.” I’d help pay his bail and his defense (for which he will probably be acquitted). The constant drum beat (= sex) that it all leads to sex is just pathetic. Makes me wonder just what is on their computer!
I’ve been thinking the same thing for a while now. And don’t forget clothes. Clothes are also about sex.
Poor kids–never allowed to have sex, but never allowed to stop thinking about it.
I do believe sex ought to be reserved for marriage, but the multitudinous (and often silly) rules about interactions between men and women at BJU made what should have been normal (and innocent) behavior seem highly sexually charged.
Rules that especially annoyed me at the time: absolutely no talking to anyone of the opposite sex in the entire two-story library and no sitting at a table with someone of the opposite sex, even if the table was large enough for twelve people.
No walking next to a guy on covered, lighted sidewalks after 7:00 p.m. Before that was fine. After, no, making it very awkward to walk from a ball game to the dating parlor.
At which point, Fundy U = Furry Art sites.
Apparently, Darrell didn’t fill out the proper form for his hovertext. 🙁
It’s pending approval. Fundy tradition tells us it’s better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission.
I actually heard my fundy mog say this at an annual business meeting one day. I was shocked and appalled at his attitude. That is one reason why he’s our ex-mog.
I’m thinking that maybe they edited Galatians 5:13-18 out of their KJV bibles. But don’t worry, more rules and regulations will help produce holy and upright lives.
Brief description of activity: Thought we’d attempt some 1-on-1 baseball & see how far around the bases we get.
Seriously, if this is truly a “friendship activity form,” why isn’t it applied to a group of girls who want to go shopping & try on clothes together, or some guys who want to practice their song leader arm-flail…or something.
It’s worthwhile to drill down into the curriculum for the students. The “General Studies for Ladies” is fascinating. Women students must take “Christian Home”; “Prayer”; “Secretarial Elective”; “How to Rear Infants/Children”; “Cooking”; and “A Domestic Science Elective.”
So, once they get all this good training for women folk, they’ll be all ready to get married, I guess. How many of these young women will have this non accredited training to prepare them for what will 50/50 result in a divorce? Then they will be out on their own, perhaps with children, and absolutely zero job skills?
Makes me crazy.
“How to Rear Infants & Children” has the potential to be a great course for anyone who would like to eventually become a parent.
Unfortunately, it’s probably just an entire semester of “children are evil little sinners who are trying to usurp your parental authority from the moment they are born. Your job is to calmly beat the Devil out of them & show them who’s boss. In Jesus’ name.”
Oh, it gets worse. Years ago I ran across a textbook for a course like this, but for a younger age–knowing what I know now, I wish I’d bought it and burned it to keep credulous homeschooling parents from using the damn thing. The book flat-out stated that all good Christian babies will begin eating solid food at six months period. Because authority, that’s why. “Advice” like that, minus the God-talk, contributed to the multiple severe food allergies in my husband’s family.
Sweet Baby Jesus in the manger… 😯
The one saving grace was that there was only one copy. I found it at a donated book sale at the local library. They weed the heck out of the stuff they actually keep. The stuff they plan to sell, not so much.
Don’t forget “sewing”. Those singer sewing pattern denim sack dresses won’t make themselves!
Probably the most offensive course offering is household finances for men, but not women. I guess the gals don’t need to get ahold of that pesky checkbook. They’ll waste all the money on fancy luxuries like waffle irons, when we all know if they just wait, their hubby will buy them one for Valentine’s Day!
Reminds me of my “Bible” “School” days. We had to have a chaperon for dates. What constituted a date? any gathering of mixed gender with fewer than five individuals. Don’t have a car and want to catch a ride with three upperclasswomen that you had 0 romantic interest? Clearly prurient intent. It was a date. You are grounded for not getting permission to go to Wal-Mart on a non approved date-night. **Sigh**
1. Lots of Admin, but thankfully several are moonlighting on the faculty.
2. 6 of 17 in the staff are listed as faculty for the “Secretarial Science” program. That seems like it must be a strong program at this school. It’s certainly well funded and staffed in these days of FU layoffs elsewhere.
3. There is an “accountability secretary”. She must be the one keying in the data from this form.
4. Anglea, Gomez…Why do I feel like I have heard these names before?
Oy. Proofreading? This place does not practice what it offers. I saw a few mistakes in just a cursory glance of this site.
At any rate, I find it amusing that the long course requires a class in kiddie lit.
But they do get to take “British of American Literature”
I came back to pity the accountability secretary. What a horrible job. I hope it pays well and she has a loving family to go home to after long days of coding sins into a database.
To help train students to avoid ‘ministry burnout’, the social activities calendar includes some really swell events like ‘BBQ at preacher’s house’.
Is there a request form for “excuse me you have sauce on your chin” conversations with members of the opposite…er…gender?
What’s with all the taxidermy stuff?
We are supposed to be impressed that “Doctor” Keith Gomez was able to waddle his 400 lb. butt into some game preserve to shoot defenseless animals with a high powered rifle. Personally, I would be more impressed to hear that Gomez has gone on a diet and taken up walking or jogging.
That gentlemen in the photo and his dead elk nestled up next to him made me wonder if they’ve filled out a friendship pass 🙄
“What’s with all the taxidermy stuff?”
ME REAL MAN.
SEE ALL THE ANIMALS I SHOT?
(SEE WHAT I DO TO THOSE WHO GET IN MY WAY?)
Also search on “Firearms as Penis Extensions.”
I confess my first thought was to wonder if you need a friendship form if the friends are of the same sex as each other.
It doesn’t specify gender. So I sincerely hope that they’re getting trolled by same-sex friendship pass requests for the most minute and inane of things.
Indeed! I also hope there are some enterprising souls out there filling the form out anonymously, with things like
Brief description of activity: Dry humping.
Brief description of activity: Reading the NIV.
Brief description of activity: Teepeeing the Dean’s house. We know where you live.
So what happens if one were to go over the prescribed time limit?
Only if you’re not careful. 😈
And some sort of social disease that will destroy your entire future. Oh, and turn you into a troll.
I have to assume this is strictly for my benefit and safety! 😉
Yes, now you got it. For instance, what if you were off campus with a “friend” and got a chicken bone stuck in your craw and your “friend” had to give you mouth to mouth and no one even knew where you were or what the scheduled activities were and goooooodGodamighty all the bad horrible things that can happen out there in the world where the prince of the powers of the air has control.
Just obey and fill out the form, please. Jesus would want you to do so.
Please tell me there’s an Excel version of this that we can use for our own… devious purposes.
Oh my! They have an an online application for admission. hehehehe (eevil laugh) 😈
I wasn’t thinking so much applying online for the school, as filling out and giving my girlfriend one of these as a semi-cruel prank. 😈 😀
Dear Providence Baptist College Board:
This policy would be based on … which text …?
Please stop that.
We are not to question authority. It bothers them, and you can’t offend the weaker brother.
Thank you for your understanding.
Instead of calling it “Friendship Pass Request Form”, Providence Baptist College could call it the “Permission to Look Form.”
Because, as the old saying goes:
“Looking leads to liking,
Liking leads to loving,
And loving leads to %&^&ing.
So what are you looking at me for?”
That’s a great poem.
“Doubt leads to Questions.
Questions lead to Thinking.
Thinking leads to Heresy.
Heresy leads to Retribution.
Blessed is the mind too small for Doubt.”
— Warhammer 40K Inquisitor
Perhaps this is the result of the selective inbreeding that takes place among fundies and thus we can only look forward to even greater mutations.
Take a look at Pensacola Christian College’s student handbook. It’s even more ridiculous
I just noticed that the pictures of the alumni picnic they were playing lawn darts. I thought that lawn darts were not sold anymore as a dangerous toy.
To which the Funday replied, in the name of persecution, “We must obey God rather than the laws of man.”
I moved out of my parents’ house when I was 17 (I graduated early) and didn’t go to Bible college for a year and a half. I had been supporting myself for all that time. The college I attended only let you live off campus if you were 23 years old. Therefore, even though their rules were extremely lax compared to PCC, HAC, Fairhaven, BJU, etc., I still felt cramped at having to be in the dorms by 10:30 p.m. Thankfully, after lights out at 11:00, we were allowed to go to the study room or leave a lamp on in our room (if our roomates didn’t mind) until 1:00 a. m.
Guys didn’t have to fill out a request form or anything to leave campus, and guy/girl groups didn’t have to turn in a dating slip or whatever, as long as there was at least one more girl than guy.
All in all, after hearing the horror stories about ridiculous rules at other similar Bible colleges, I’m thankful I went where I did.
Most dorm students came to college the semester after graduation from high school, and actually need some rules and structure in their lives.
My brother, however, went to PCC (after taking a year of school to work and save up). He didn’t even last the first year before being shipped (others involved in the same event that got him kicked out didn’t receive the same punishment; he was considered a “bad egg”).
So all was ok if there were 2 girls plus one guy? Scorpio do you have anything to say?
In all seriousness, clearly some high school students are not ready for college. I went to a secular college, and some of the students went wild without any kind of authority watching over them. Not all; not the majority; probably 10-20% (rough guess). Of these, about 1/2 of them went so wild that they either broke too many of the rules and were told not to come back, or else they failed to keep their grades up and flunked out.
I’m not certain what the solution to this problem is, but I’m pretty that it’s not all of the extreme rules adopted by these kind of colleges.
I guess the term “threesome” had not made its way into Fundy vernacular at that time. There were a few “scandals” during my years there, but seemingly not nearly as many as some of the colleges with more oppressive dating rules. Shoot, couples were even allowed to leave campus and travel to either one’s parents house without a chaperone, as long as both sets of parents had called and given verbal permission to the deans of men and women.
I wonder if Dr. Gomez filled out a form like this when he began courting his new bride?
Rank Hath Its Privileges.
And God’s Anointed Elect Hath the Greatest Privileges of All.
From the church website under the tab “Carla Gomez memorial” –
“This past semester at Providence Baptist College, Natalie Snyder and Maria Varga, took a course entitled ‘The Christian Home’ – One of the requirements was to write a paper on what they have learned from their mother or pastor’s wife…”
Just for the fun of it, I looked through their entire web site. In it, I saw a very attractive swimming pool. The water looked so blue and inviting. I just wonder if anyone was ever allowed to swim in it.
Gah! For this type of place, I will say that they had a nice looking website–so props there.
But outside of that just no, everything no. Starting with the paper: I cannot believe anyone would want to submit themselves to that type of “security” 24/7. I dated a girl in my Christian HS, but thankfully never had to fill anything like this out (we were just watched extra-super carefully).
Back to the site though, I wish I could caption all of the photos for myself. Some are just pleading for it.
Also, what is up with “Church Secretarial Science” and “Graphic Design” (or at least the description of it)? The first sounds like trying to make something simple sound difficult or requiring more expertise (sorry if I am offending someone, secretaries’ jobs to me seem more stressful because of workload rather than skill, no offense meant by that), and “great asset to the local church” is just bogus. I have never seen a local church that needed or could afford a designer. It’s all just promises of “being used of God” with nothing to back it up.
This pass though, mindboggling. 🙁
Oh, and in case anyone wanted to know, the top picture for Graphic Design in the “Majors” section (http://providencebaptistcollege.com/academics/majors/) wasn’t even made by students or faculty–they clipped it from the internet:
Hey All. New to the group but not new to SFL. My fundy career began days after birth when I was in church, bless gawd and lasted until I was twenty-three. I was born in Hammond, IN, a fact I rarely share and attending FBCH from birth to eleven. From there, obscure fundy churches that though they were known and then to NVBC in Santa Clara where I attended Trieber’s fundy U, and, after being kicked out of fundy U for not displaying the “Golden Spirit”, attended church as a flunky until I was denied the honor of )being in ministry because, according to Trieber’s secretary, pastor felt the way I dressed wasn’t in line with people who should be “in ministry”. That pissed me off enough to leave NV, though not fundamentalism, and after more obscure fundy church involvement, I left for good.
I hope my fundy experience can add to the SFL comment thread’s humor and insight. 🙂
Introductions out of the way, based on my experience, forms like these just made people, like me, find creative ways to sneak off-campus with their “friend”. 🙂
Welcome! Glad to have you aboard.
(Also, great handle, Tithe-check Bouncer.) 😀
Thank you Dr. Jezebel. Enjoy your handle as well! 🙂
Chapter and verse from where this “friendship pass” was lifted, please. Also it should be in the King’s English.
“King’s English” or Kynge Jaymes’ Englyshe?
This is dumber than a van full of homeschoolers headed to the creation museum…
As someone who once homeschooled my kids, owns a white 15 passenger van to haul their scrawny hides around, and used to think Ken Ham was the bees-knees, I feel I should tell you that your comment, whatever your intention may have been, thoroughly tickled me!
LOL I thought that one up a week ago and have been waiting for a good chance to use it!
Kudos to the comment as well! By comparison, a box of rocks comes off with a PhD. 😀
Darrell, if you find this over the top, feel free to delete it. I will understand.
May I rant just a bit?
This is embarrassing. It is hard to put into words. I have had to put a lot of thought into it. But this “Friendship Pass” stuff is really just a beginning to lot of abusive the “Faith” puts married couples through.
Fundamentalist and Conservative Christianity’s response to sexuality has hurt a lot of people. The general “wisdom” of the leaders and elders is that ignorance is the best policy. Keep children ignorant. Keep teens ignorant. Keep dating couples ignorant about sex. Only divulge the minimal information and lots of misinformation to engaged couples who are close to getting married.
Otherwise, stress over and over again that sex is sinful. Sex is sinful. It is dirty. It is disgusting. It is wicked. Those who think about sex are following the devil. Men and boys who want sex are perverts and potential rapists.
So, engaged to be married while at BJU, we were not even allowed to kiss or hold hands. The books they gave us to read were less than helpful. Talk about making the subject of marital sex and love complicated and inscrutable! Mind you, in the two weeks before we were married after school got out, we did lots of kissing, holding hands, and bit of infinitely clumsy petting (along with the requisite guilty feelings). The wedding night? We came as virgins. She cried. It wasn’t joyful.
And over the years, we have had lots of troubles from this very thing. I won’t go into details.People with this problem don’t talk about it to others. They doesn’t admit the difficulties. They can’t even use descriptive language to talk to marriage counselors! And going to the Pastor and his wife with an issue like this? Forget it!
One friend of mine admitted that he almost never has sex with his wife anymore because “It isn’t worth the trouble.” And he is a deacon in the IFB church I used to attend. Another friend (who used to be a deacon) found his wife in bed with someone else.
And I just realized. There are a lot of people in (or who have been in) my former IFB church whose marriages have suffered from this very thing. It is just that every instance is treated as a wholly separate thing, unconnected and otherwise just a matter of people letting the “world” into their hearts.
The fundamentalist approach to sexuality has probably been responsible for the Christian divorce rate skyrocketing. It has done incalculable damage to what could have been good marriages.
Well said. I remember playing Scrabble with my mom and dad (IFB people). I was about 14. I made the word “sex”. Proud of myself as the letter X scored 10 points. Dad said, “No. You can’t use that word. We don’t talk like that. We don’t use dirty words in this house.”
He also beat the hell out of me and my siblings through childhood. He always said he had to break the will of a child-that was what God intended. When a child cries, you should spank them, he always said. Keep spanking them until they stop crying. You break their wills so that they submit to you, or they’ll never learn to submit to God. Punishments came brutally and often unexpectedly.
I knew I’d do the same if I had children, so I never had children. It wasn’t until I was in my 40s that I finally began to trust myself, but it was too late for children.
Dr Math, thank you for your candor and openness. I believe that if we are ever to find even a bit of healing, we need to be able to talk, even on a forum like this. I respect what you say a great deal.
Rtgmath, it’s not just the Fundy approach to sex that is screwed up. The whole Christian culture’s over-emphasis on purity coupled with the shame of even discussing sex contributes to problems in many marriages.
Women have the added baggage of being told their bodies are the sole source of men’s lust. As a result, many women feel shame allowing their husbands to see their bodies, let alone the whole issue of sex.
They elevate virginity so high that I know women who are actually a little sad that they’re going to lose their virginity on their wedding night, like it’s a let-down. Virginity is honored and motherhood is honored, but a married woman enjoying sex with her husband is often portrayed as shameful (or at least comes across as shameful to young people because of the attitudes about it).
Ahh its the raging Cajun’s church, Keith Gomez.
I was a broadcast engineer for a fundie radio station and I got a 5 page missionary questionnaire from them because their program played on that station.
I never filled it out. I think I have it somewhere, if I find it I think I should fill it out and turn it in. Should be interesting.