First on the second?
By the way, “you” is also a singular pronoun.
and in fact it gets rather tricky, because in older english orthography, the letter “y” was used in place of “th” because in order to save space. Look up the letter “thorn,” it existed some 300 years ago. Any time you see something written in old-timey english that says, “YE OLDE SHOPPE”, the first word there is actually just the definite article, which today we spell “the.”
So, in other words it might get tricky where “ye” and “thee” are, in certain instances, actually EXACTLY the same word, a personal pronoun; or other times, “ye” and “the” are actually the definite article. Just google the history of the letter “thorn” in english.
Language: never as simple as the fundies pretend it is.
From good ol wikipedia:
“A handwritten form of thorn that was similar to the letter “y” in appearance with a small “e” written above it as an abbreviation for “the” was common in early Modern English. This can still be seen in reprints of the 1611 edition of the King James Version of the Bible in places such as Romans 15:29, or in the Mayflower Compact. The word was never pronounced with a “y” sound, even when so written.”
The same process applies to the personal pronouns written “yee” and “you,” in the 1611 KJV, which were ACTUALLY originally pronounced “thee” and “thou” respectively.
Plus, in modern English, whether “you” is plural or singular depends on the context, which is something else fundies are not adept at understanding.
I’ m a king james person myself. Whether I have been indoctrinated into the belief that it is the true inspired word or not, it is still my preferred bible. I’ll keep my thr, thou and what nots
I know lots of people for whom the KJV is their preferred bible. There is nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong when it turns to condemnation of others or pride because you’ve got the “correct” bible and they haven’t.
So, the Ten Commandments in the KJV use “thou”, a singular pronoun. (http://ten-commandments.us/ten_commandments/KJVcommandments.html) Since they were dictated to Moses, they apply ONLY to Moses. MOSES shall not kill. MOSES shall have no other Gods but me… er… him. Etc.
Woo hoo! All these millennia, it’s been misinterpreted! I’m off to kill, steal, envy, and commit adultery, then make sacrifices to an idol while talking smack about my parents! Then I’m going to lie about it! On the Sabbath! By God!
Hey there! What is this about adultery, husband? Remember that sex you planned on having, ever?
You had better rethink this little part of your plan.
I’ll just wait for DragonCon and then look upon women with lust in my heart. That will do.
Do I detect a WoT fan?
^ +1 for casual Firefly reference. 😀
Nice. I think I’ll join you!
Just read Liz’s post and I will opt out of the adultery. No threesome for me. 😳
Wow. Already George?
LOL. Nice. 😯
If this is a real statement of faith, I think thou hast mistaken thy mouth for thy backside, or else thou hast mistaken thy backside for thy mouth….
It’s the same thing in Fundystan.
Well, Thee & Thou was good enough for William Shakespeare, and nobody would dare rewrite Shakespeare, 😯 not Bacon, not Billy Graham, not even Jesus Christ Himself.
Nobody would dare rewrite Shakespeare?
It did reduce Bowdler into a joke, 😳 and Bowdlerization into laugh fodder. 😆 You just don’t mess with the Bard of Avon.
A lot of fundamentalists consider Shakespeare to be evil. BJU has been considered worldly by certain subsets of fundamentalism for years because they put on Shakespeare plays (even carefully edited ones).
Plus why waste time reading Shakespeare when you could be reading ye Holy Bible?
What do ultra-fundamentalists do all day anyway? I hang out at Free Jinger, so I get to read extracts from some of the ultra-fundie blogs where much is made of how the bus blew a tire and Dad went to talk to the tire repair guy in his MODEST AND GODLY SWIM CLOTHES!!! and that was an exciting afternoon, but surely they can’t all be like that?
I mean, no Shakespeare, no science fiction, no danceable music, no dancing anyway, no dates, no activewear for girls, no, no, no–how do they avoid expiring from screaming boredom?
“Modest and Godly Swim Clothes”????? That *certainly* creates “interesting” pictures in the mind’s eye…
I once saw a guy swimming at a waterpark in jeans and a long sleeved western shirt. Modest and Godly did not come to mind. What came to mind was either: 1) He forgot his swim suit;
2) Waterpark was spur of the moment after hiking or something and he just didn’t have his swimsuit; or
3) He had either precancer or cancer of the skin and had to cover up.
that’s why they stay busy on their hamster-wheels at church . . . because all there is to do at home is sit around and watch The Odyssey cartoons and Little House on the Prairie (and Veggie Tales if they’re backslidden). When things get really wild, Dutch Blitz may be involved.
Someone on this blog once said
“As long as the wheel keeps turning, who cares if the Hamster is dead”
Sums up life in Fundystan
That’s right! So when will you be picking up your copy of the bible written in Hebrew and Greek? After all, if it was good enough for Jesus and the N.T. church it should be good enough for you right?
Before Jesus was crucified, there was only the Holy Scriptures and Jesus who is The Word. The first version of the Holy Bible was not written until centuries later. The exact date for the first version I do not know, but I am sure someone on SFL knows.
Erm…either the above is wrong, or the KJV translators didn’t get it. To piggy-back off of Lizard, the verb form (yih.yeh) translated with a “Thou” in the ten commandments is translated with a “you” in Gen. 1:29, and is left without a pronoun in many other places (for those of you who know a little Hebrew, you understand that the pronoun isn’t present, only implied).
“Verily, Thou canst not fix stupid.”
:::ahem::: I do believe it’s ‘verily, verily’ Don! Don’t add or TAKE AWAY from God’s word. Verily, verily I say unto you that the verily, verily is verily inspired.
To give Don a just balance, he wast not quoting Ye Holye Scriptures but rather was quoting ye Olde Ron White.
Verily, verily I say unto you that the verily, verily is verily, verily inspired
Speakest thou sixteenth-century English?
I speak it not, neither do I write it, yet forsooth, I can read it whensoever mine heart so desireth.
He does know “you” can be both singular and plural, right? And it’s usually easy to tell which tense the author/speaker is using?
You’ve interacted with Fundies? I can’t tell if “I” is singular or plural with the illiterates of the bunch. 🙂
Maybe God should have just waited and inspired His words in English!
Does God understand modern English?
Shouldn’t it say “Get ‘thee’ back to the King James Bible”?
I think your alt image text should be “Thou canst be serious,” shouldn’t it? 🙄
you still have to add the “not” in there. “Thou canst not be serious.”
“Verily, Verily, lest thy bowels of humour be blocked, thou canst not be serious. Selah!”
I’m way late, but I was just thinking “there’s no ‘not’ in canst”! 🙂
Used this way, “be serious” is a modern language construction. Perhaps, “Verily, thou must behave thyself with a sober countenance and with sincerity of purpose not jocularity.”
I have some ointment that will clear that right up for you.
Don and PW, thanks for clearing that up. I will take it as a good sign that I’m so out of touch with the King’s English! 😎
Wait, when he said, “When you take thee…,” was he talking to one of us or all of us? I’m confused.
I love this video pastiche of Ruckman:
Does anyone know who “Hot Dog Heimers” is?
I want to know if the author of this actually speaks this way. 🙄
Wonder how this works for folks who speak French or German? I guess one should just chose a translation that sounds really antiquated.
My wife has been reliably informed that translations into non-English languages should be from the KJV, not from the original Greek, Aramaic, Latin, etc, texts. Seriously. That is apparently actual doctrine for some people.
Another common belief is that those people should learn the English language so they can get a real Bible (i.e. AV1611 KJB).
I had an MK tell me that there’s no point in bible translation projects because people are generally taught to read in English rather than their native languages.
I like how Wycliffe Bible Translators refer to a person’s “heart language.”
I’m so appreciative of those who wanted to give English-speaking people the Bible in our language. How can we be miserly and refuse to do the same to others, especially when it doesn’t cost us to be burnt at the stake for it?
I’d like to see that person tell those who are tirelessly working to translate the Bible into Indonesia’s 278 languages that they’re wasting their time. 🙄
+8 (for each of my loved ones who endure malaria and other mysterious diseases, political unrest, persecution, floods, and many more hardships–not to mention being halfway around the world from their families–to help translate God’s word into the heart languages of Indonesian people.)
Sounds like we may know some of the same people. 😎
Just a note for the fundies who track this site: my user name is my real name and yes, I think that Faithway Baptist Church, Ajax Ontario was/is a sick cult but I don’t hold any personal grudges (not that Faithway was interested in finding more victims–thanks Mr. Gibbs for the godly advice).
You kill me. Bien dit mon frère.
The truth is the farthest thing from the minds of those involved! At FaithWay and at Hyles-Anderson! Gibbs was on standby if FaithWay was required to answer the unethical, illegal, and ungodly manner in which they handled my family!
This subject gets me so frustrated! It really doesn’t take much brain power to understand how translating is done, and how it will never be “perfect”. I only left the cult less than a year ago (at 29) but stopped believing the KJV was perfect when I was 16 and started learning French and ASL.
That’s because if it ain’t King James, it ain’t Bible! Haymen?
What’s the source of this gem? A potential candidate for FWOTW?
My brain is breaking with the stupidity! Please allow me to express my frustration before I scream and scare people! 😯
1) Singular and plural pronouns would be nice. I agree on that point.
2) This has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. Replace “Bible” with the more accurate to this context “language” and you’ll find it more understandable (somewhat 🙄 ).
3) For advocating better language, the writer certainly can’t follow the rules as described – twice, “you” is used as the subject, when it clearly should be “ye”.
There, I feel better now. 😀 😳
Dear SFL Reader:
This convinces me that sometimes no great principle is at stake; it’s just ‘Stupid’ looking for a means to be.
+10^ I hope thou dost not mind me using that phrase.
Oh God. My brain. Argument through conjugation. This is a new low.
I have been out of that mentality so long it is ridiculous. Someone, a few years ago, said that these Fundies will eventually shrivel up and die because the only people they can recruit are mentally incapable people.
Accepting for the sake of argument that those are the only people they can recruit, you don’t really think they’re likely to ever run out of mentally incapable people, do you?
While I dispute the statement that “You CANNOT have an accurate Bible without Thee, Thou, Ye, and You”, I believe that the KJV translators deliberately used Thee and Thou to indicate singular and Ye and You for plural, and that IS helpful when reading the Bible in English.
But “cannot have an accurate Bible” without them? Silly! Thou canst not be sober-minded!
I remember reading/hearing that thee/thou were chosen because they were the more personal forms, and “you” was the more formal. Similar to the French, where “tu” is both singular and used only in close relationships, while “vous” is generally plural, but the formal choice. Perhaps like the “royal we”. For some reason, plural is seen as more formal.
So thee/thou was chosen to show how personal our relationship to God could/should be, and not due to any desired accuracy with singular/plural.
Anyone care to comment on the accuracy ( 😀 ) of this?
I have heard the same thing, formal/informal usage, in other contexts. If so, then, since to modern ears “Thee” and “Thou” sound very formal and distant, the translation today no longer conveys the intended meaning it did in 1611. To a real extent, you could argue that it is, in fact, a different translation than it was, in the sense that the words now mean different things and are used in different contexts.
I think this is important, because one of the arguments I usually see against any other Bible is that changing the words even in small ways changes the meaning. This is true, to varying degrees — but in the case of the KJV, the *words* may remain the same but the *meaning* has changed, and now, to get the same meaning, you need different words.
VERY good point! If words change the meaning, cannot the meaning change the words?
but wait, that’s sounding kind of like evolution, and evolution is B-A-A-D!!
Not kidding, I have heard this.
JESUS NEVER OWNED A KING JAMES BIBLE !!
…true. But he did carry one he borrowed from St. Peter.
Besides, everyone knows the red letters prove that Jesus spoke in Thee’s and Thou’s. D-uh! 🙄
A random thought — what made the KJV so important, as I understand it, was that it was written in the common language of the day, so average people (well, the average person who had been taught to read, which was not average) could read it and understand it without someone else telling him what it said. By obsessing over the exact words chosen in 1611, rather than focusing on HOW those words were chosen — that they were the closest English words/idioms in *common* *use* — it seems people miss the point. If the KJV is not continually updated as the language changes, the very thing that made it such an important part of modern religious history is undermined. (To use an example my wife, who knows this stuff, just gave me — the word “corn” in 1611 meant “any kind of grain”, but to a modern reader, “corn” means “yellow stuff we stole from the Aztecs, sucks to be them”. Because of this change in the language, modern readers visualize “corn” as we currently understand it, and not the actual concept that the original KJV translators chose the word “corn”, which had a different common meaning in 1611, to represent.)
Translation is messy. It’s commonly believed, at least subconsciously, that every word has an exact 1-to-1 correspondence to every other, when, in reality, even the simplest and most objective words often have subtle differences, and words that are more abstract are usually just best-fit approximations, especially given that the same word can be used in multiple contexts with different implications, when those specific contexts/implications may not use the same word in the target language. (One anime I watched described the hero as having “super mundane powers!”. I realized they meant “super normal”, but someone decided to use a synonym for “normal”, not realizing you can’t use “mundane” in that specific context. And this was a professional translator who presumably knew both languages extremely well.)
Have you ever heard the Pensacola rhetoric regarding changes in language? I have. I will give you a quick rundown:
A: God created Adam and Eve with the “perfect” language.
B. After the fall, language became corrupt and weakened.
C. Every change in language is therefore bad. The transition from thee and thou to you was bad. Creation of new words is bad.
D. This is why the KJV is superior–it was written before language devolved to the point that it has today.
E. If people can’t learn KJV English, it’s their on dumb fault.
This straight from a PCC grad. I went to BJU where per-versions are welcome, just not in the pulpit (because we aren’t KJV only, but why make waves about it?)
I was under the impression that the roots of all modern languages were created at the Tower of Babel (though Biblical linguistics isn’t something I’ve looked at too hard).
If language change is corrupting, then, the KJV should not have been written in 1611 English, but in the oldest forms of English that could be documented (which don’t really sound like ‘English’ to us at all, because they lack the Germanic and Latin components. Chaucer isn’t “old English”, it’s “Middle English”, which means you can almost sort of kind of make sense of it in the original. Actual Old English is effectively a completely different language from any kind of English spoken today, or even in 1611. But if it was “purer”, then, use it for translating the Bible… though, of course, taken to the logical conclusion, it should never be translated, and read only in the original languages. If God didn’t want people to read His words in those specific languages as they were at the various specific era (across thousands of years) where the original texts were inspired, he would have inspired them in some other language at some other time.
(Also, re: point “A” in your list… this would imply that all words which could ever be needed were known to them. So, they would have had unique words for all the words we have as eponyms, not to mention all the various portmanteaus, etc, etc, etc…)
Also, re: Point “E”: Yeah, that’s kind of what I mean by undermining what made the KJV so important. It was intended to be read by people of average literacy in the common language of the day, requiring NO additional education beyond that needed to read and write anything else.
Yep. Sadly enough this was a person who majored in Engish at PCC. And this rhetoric came straight from the dude who writes most of the English curriculum for their A Beka stuff, and teaches the important English classes.
I think their rhetoric was that the Tower of Babel was the first step in the devolution of language. The linguistic theory propping up their argument is the idea that language is a pre-existing entity which should be preserved and obeyed, not adapted for best use, by users. This is why they teach prescriptive grammar (do this because I say so. Put the comma here because it’s correct to do so and we want to preserve our God-given language) rather than descriptive (a descriptive grammar teaches the way the language is actually used; it is reflective of current usage and focuses on allowing students to enter their language-adapting-and-creating community.
However, based on my understanding of linguistics, the PCC rehtoric is total crap. The relationship between signifier and sign is established as a contract among the language community. We could, in 500 years, agree to use the word “watermelon” for “hospital” or put adjectives after the nouns they describe. This would not be a violation of God’s creation, but natural evolution of language. (oops I forgot!! evolution is ALWAYS BAD, ALL THE TIME!!!) 😀
To quote my 7 year old daughter, “Sometimes I think people are just IDIOTS!” 🙄
Wow. Sounds a lot like old school Catholics insisting that the Bible should only be read in Latin during mass.
Dear Ben from Quebec:
Coming from La belle province, you would know.
I pointed out this some decades ago to certain folk. Amazingly, it gained no traction whatsoever — even from people who are decidedly anti Roman Catholic.
This leads me to think that the KJ narrative has less to do with canonical and/or theological purity than it does retaining hegemonic control over religious apparatus.
The preceding observation might also be seen as a mirror reflection of old-line Roman Catholic practice.
Or, just as likely, it’s yet another example (seen in every human culture, religious or not) of the truth of the alleged Zen saying, “What you oppose, you become.” (Also phrased as “Choose your enemies carefully, for you will become them.”)
(I have no idea if this actually is from Zen, or if someone decided to claim it was because it’s common to attribute things to sources that seem authoritative. As Abraham Lincoln said, “The problem with quotes on the Internet is that they’re often incorrectly sourced.”)
Let’s hope it is a different Abraham Lincoln and not the President Abraham Lincoln. Somehow though, I suspect you are talking about the President.
NITC has to be a troll! You can’t be this vociferous of a commenter on a blog and be unaware of Abraham Lincoln’s internet sourcing quote!
I didn’t quote President Lincoln precisely; I sort of paraphrased from memory. Here’s the correct citation:
“If God’s today be too soon for thy repentance, thy tomorrow may be too late for His acceptance.”—-
————————–by William Secker
Because that’s exactly the lesson taught regarding the Prodigal son, right?
Ummmm, no. This “spiritual sounding” quip by Secker is manipulative error. It all centers on man and speaks of a capricious, fickle god.
Right now is the time to get saved, to take care of this business because if you continue to say “I got my whole life” or “I’ll do it tomorrow”, your whole life may only be for 15 more minutes before you have a massive heart attack, stroke, or some driver texting runs over you.
If you do not take care of it today and you die unsaved, what are you going to tell the Lord? “Lord, I did not know I was going to have a heart attack, stroke.” or “I didn’t know that texting teenager was going to run over me Lord, can’t you just let bygones be bygones and let me slip in? Nobody will know.”
We humans are so consumed with financial wellbeing, physical wellbeing, social wellbeing, emotional wellbeing, and psychological wellbeing, but rarely if ever do we ever think about spiritual wellbeing. Yes, all these things are important, and so is your spiritual wellbeing. We humans, whether saved or not are just passing through. We all have an end and we all have a destination at that end. While we do not have a choice of how our end will be (heart attack, natural death, violent death, etc.), we do have a choice of where we will be in eternity. Unfortunately, most people put the decision for their eternity off thinking they have years when in fact they have only weeks, days, or minutes.
Once you are in eternity, if you decide you don’t like it there, you can’t change your reservation. There are no U-TURNS, no second chances, no crooked attorneys that can get you off on a technicality, no getting out on good behaviour, no plea bargaining, no escape, no hope.
Now is the time to get saved, not later because there may be no later in your future.
I have no problem with the immediacy of Salvation, what I have a problem with is the thy tomorrow may be too late for His acceptance.”—-
That sounds all spiritual but it comes off as promoting a fickle god who may accept you today but not tomorrow… maybe week afer next if he gets through pouting about you non-decision today…
I believe that there will not be one person in hell because of a timing mistake, or a decisional slight, or an oversight on God’s behalf. If you have read on here long you know that I believe God draws, and saves those whom he will and I do not believe in autonomous decisional regeneration.
I believe when scripture speaks of the immediacy of Salvation it is speaking to those whom God is saving daily. I believe that the argument can be made that no one is saved before their time (meaning you cannot decide to be saved before the Holy Spirit prepares your heart and draws you. But I’ve derailed far enough already.)
Yes now is the time but I do not believe a case can be made that “now” has universal efficacy for all people, at any given point in time.
Let’s hope you do not drop dead before you decide you are ready to have God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit as your Lord and Saviour because that is what William Secker is saying: it is appointed unto man to die once and then the judgment. If you die before you are saved, it is too late.
Dear Not In The Clique:
Forgive me but [and this may be my Reformed rearing showing its hideous face] this sounds more like a ‘decisional regeneration’ marketing ploy than anything wrought in us by God’s Spirit.
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Explain how you can classify God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit’ own Word as a “decisional regeneration marketing ploy” and not part of Him? Who are you and I to tell the KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS where to “stick His Love Letter where the sun don’t shine” because you believe the Holy Bible to be nothing more than a “decisional regeneration marketing ploy” or a flat out lie? That is what you really are saying.
I hope you are not so deluded that you actually believe this, because once you are in eternity, if you are not saved…………
Whether you like it or not, God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit’ Word is the only one that matters. Whatever you, I, Darrell, Don, and anyone else on SFL; and anyone on earth during the past, present, and future believes does not amount to a “hill of beans” if that belief is contrary to the Word of God.
You can kick, scream, mock, throw all the temper tantrums you want, but it will not amount to a “hill of beans” because Gods Word is the Truth and there is no way of changing that unchangeable reality.
“once you are in eternity…” Then i’ll just wait, and ‘make my decision’ later on, maybe when I’m on my deathbed, since the day-to-day doesn’t really matter. Because, well, that’s what your words imply.
No, that is not what I am implying. Did you even read my whole comment or did you just read the first line and assumed this? You know what they say about assuming, don’t you? Go back and read my whole comment.
what William Secker is saying: it is appointed unto man to die once and then the judgment.
Well then why didn’t he just say that? The way he put it makes it seem that God is capricious and moody.
Don, do you know what they say about assuming? It is bad enough that you assume the worse in alive humans, but do you need to assume the worse in the dead also?
Explain how you can classify God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit’ own Word as a “decisional regeneration marketing ploy” and not part of Him?
(1) Someone is in dire need of remedial explanation of the trinity,
(2) I don’t see anywhere in the post the CS replied to, nor in this post that are quoting Jesus, God, or the Holy Spirit directly. Hebrews 9:27 is not a red letter verse.
God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit is a trinity that is ONE God, not three separate Gods. Emanuel means “God with us”.
RobM, you really should start reading your Holy Bible faithfully everyday, then you would know this.
From what I’ve been able to find Secker seems to be a puritan.
They have stuff by him here:
This site bills itself as ” a treasury of sovereign grace devotional writings” The purpose is stated as:”To humble the pride of man and exalt the grace of God in salvation and to promote real holiness in heart and life.” Here’s the link to the search I did on Secker:
So the quote by NITC might not be “descisional regeneration” but a Puritan “gospel call?” /evangelistic method in their preaching?. NITC gives no source so it’s impossible to find out where it comes from unless he provides it. But The Puritan’s can be verbose and like I said before it might have been given in the context of a sermon so their may have been some rhetoric to it.
Thank you for the additional sources. I found the verse a few years back on the internet. I tried to find out more about him, but all I could find out was that he was a puritan who knew he was a sinner and needed the Saviour. He also knew every human is a sinner and needed the same Saviour in order to be redeemed and enter heaven. His saying is nothing more than a man who was obeying Matthew 28: 19-20, and his saying is still leading people to the Lord 300 to 400 years later. 300 to 400 years from now, some poor soul will be on the internet researching about God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit, and they will stumble upon records of SFL. What will they be reading from us all?
He was a sinner as much as you, I, and every single human from Adam and Eve to the very last human in the future. He had his faults (whatever they may have been) as much as you have your faults, I have my faults, Don has his faults, RobM has his faults, Darrell has his faults, Pastorswife has her faults, CatholicGateCrasher has faults, Teddy-Ball-Game has faults, Christian Socialist has faults, every single person has faults if they are human.
Every single human is a sinner. If a human says that they sin not, then they are calling God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit a liar. If a human does not sin, then they have no need for the Saviour. They can get into heaven on their own sinless merits.
How many of you believe your merits are sinless? I know mine aren’t. I definitely need the Saviour… and thank God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit I have Him!!!
Again, thank you for the additional sources.
“Only use the KJV!”
“Because “every word of God is perfect.”
Where’d you get that from?
“Why, from the KJV of course!”
So the KJV is perfect, and your proof is because the KJV said so?
But all other religions with books that insist they are perfect are false?
“Yes, because the KJV says so.”
And you don’t see how this is a problem?
*Walks away, muttering…
I dont think anyone has mentioned the gross out of context proof texting of proverbs 30:5 on this post yet. But this is for some reason the go-to verse for kjvo foolishness. How they have been convinced that this passage of a proverb they mutilated into a phrase somehow means that one particular translation is more pure than others is sad. When studied in context it has nothing to do with translations. Ironic that kjvo zombies claim to “love Gods word” and they proceed to misuse it for their own extra biblical agenda.
I once pointed out to a kjvo what this means in context and explained the context and i was accused of having a “personal interpretation”. But they cant see that what they accused me of is exactly what they were doing by isolating a phrase from its context.
I will rarely engage a kjvo now because they are fools.
“Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, HE TAKETH THE WISE IN THEIR OWN CRAFTINESS.
And again, THE LORD KNOWETH THE THOUGHTS OF THE WISE, THAT THEY ARE VAIN.
——————-1 Corinthians 3:18-20
Does it ever bother you to throw out a Bible verse that’s completely unrelated and run away?
Pull the pin
Count to three
When it goes off it’s bound to hit somone’s conscience!
Apparently you know how likes to soothe his conscience by attempting to drive by Bible Verse people he doesn’t know so he can convince himself he’s morally superior. Makes me awfully glad he’s only a commenter on the internets to me.
Oh RobM, please do not praise nor glorify me! You should only praise and glorify God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit.
If I was so morally superior, I would have no need for God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit. My rags are just as filthy and wreaks as much as a sepulcher as every single person on SFL and all around the world.
The Holy Bible is very relevant. If you the wise are going to call people “fools”, then you “wise” need to become fools so that you can be “wise”.
So no, the Word of God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit does not bother me.
If the Word bothers you, that is the Lord God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit convicting you that you are not right with Him. You have a choice of either repenting and forsaking the world that you are embracing, or continuing on in your rebellion. Hopefully RobM, you will make the right decision.
Fear not, NITC. Nobody here is glorifying you.
Do you really lack this much understanding? The point of the 1 Cor passage you so kindly quoted, and the point that you so badly missed, is that those who think themselves wise IN THIS WORLD would be better off if they were to become fools in the things of this world; restated, if they wish to be truly wise, they should turn away from the things of this world, and turn to God (and people who are not kooks don’t feel the need to list all three members of the Trinity every stinkin’ time they refer to God).
You really are a pompous ass. Wise in your own eyes. The epitome of a “concern troll.”
Dry up, already.
It’s not the Bible that bothers us. What bothers us is people like you who quote verses without understanding what they say, misapplying them into the bargain, and then getting all self-righteous and “concerned” about our immortal souls when we respond appropriately to your goofiness.
But you won’t dry up already, I know. You’ll come back all “concerned” once again for my soul (because you are nothing if not predictable), hoping that I’ll repent of my evil ways and get right with God (because, in your deluded eyes, disagreeing with you or declaring that you are a kook, is proof positive that we hate God Almighty) and come to see how wise and wonderful and “concerned” you really are.
“And He answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.”
————————–Luke 19: 40
“For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise.”
————————2 Corinthians 11: 19
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in His presence.
But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
That, according as it is written, HE THAT GLORIETH, LET HIM GLORY IN THE LORD.”
———————–1 Corinthians 1: 18-31
“This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
These things command and teach.
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
————————–1 Timothy 4: 9-16
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. A-men.”
————————–Matthew 28: 19-20
“And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created He them.”
————————-Genesis 1: 26-27
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
“IN the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.
In Him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the LIGHT shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
——————–John 1: 1-5
“And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, HEAR, O ISRAEL; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD:”
———————–Mark 12: 29
I actually prefer your posts that are nothing but Bible quotes. The Bible, alone, is always good to read. It’s only when you try to give them your own special kind of context that you trip on your own necktie and go Splat on the sidewalk. 😯
Thanks. I can use that.
But that doesn’t make everything else in the KJV correct.
For instance (small sample), there’s no such word in Hebrew as “cherubims” (63 times).
“Churubim” is already plural.
Why did they use a Greek word (synagogue) in a Hebrew text for “meeting places” (Ps. 74:8)?
Sorry. “Churubim” should, of course, be “Cherubim.”
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