119 thoughts on “The Order Of Books In The King James Bible”

    1. Having serious doubts I will be able to make it through 12 minutes of this video…

  1. yeah, couldnt make it through the full twelve minutes. The kjv bible is boring. I am sorry if I have offended anyone. I have always questioned the validity of kjv. I know that the kjv was translated from scripts that were already translated into english. books were left out. I think that there are parts that are works of art. The 23rd Psalm is amazing, but I dont think it is inerrant or completely inspired. what better way to cement your validity as a writer than to say you have written perfection as told to you by God.

    1. what better way to cement your validity as a writer than to say you have written perfection as told to you by God.

      The Translators of the King James never made such a claim. Ever.
      They did say this:”…we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. As the King’s speech, which he uttereth in Parliament, being translated into French, Dutch, Italian, and Latin, is still the King’s speech, though it be not interpreted by every Translator with the like grace, nor peradventure so fitly for phrase, nor so expressly for sense, everywhere.

      1. I love these words and the gracious spirit they convey, sadly unlike most KJVO proponents.

    2. Bradley, old lad, you need to actually know something definite about the history of the KJV before commenting on it (I find it is a good idea). The KJV was not a new translation, it was a thorough revision of an existing translation (think the ESV and the RSV here, or even the NRSV and the RSV). The men who did it were noted scholars (one had been a privateer in his younger days, which is a licensed pirate). The language was already old-fashioned in the London of 1611, partly for this reason. It can be difficult for those not brought up on it, but that is of course a subjective and personal standard.

      No books were ‘left out’, unless the standard you are using is the Ethiopian Orthodox canon (which is an utterly unfair standard). The KJV is translated in the West, so it is unfair to use a non-western standard. It is true that the Apocrypha were marked off by being placed between the Old Testament and the New Testament, but they were there, meaning that every book that was regarded by anyone in England as Canon was included by the KJV translators.

      And as has been noted, the translators regarded themselves as just that, not as inspired instruments of God.

      1. I have some (cassette) tapes of our old pastor preaching I can send you. That’ll put you all to sleep.

  2. If you see a sign on a churcn that says “KJV only”, this is pretty much the international sign for “RUN AWAY!”

    I have heard people from these churches imply that the KJV is the only TRULY inspired version, and that the other versions have “taken the blood out”, whatever THAT means. I guess people who read the Bible in another language are out of luck, hmm? What’s Swahili for “spake”?

    1. A church sign with “KJV Only” on it is a sure way to keep me out. To this list I would add “Independent,” “Fundamental,” “Bible-preaching,” and “God-honoring Music,” all of which I have seen on church signs in my area.

      1. @Josh…

        I don’t mind a church that says “KJV only” – there are a range of churches that use this phrase, from the Gail Riplinger/Ruckman kooks to a more reasonable KJV position – that all other English translations are taken from corrupted manuscripts (whether or not one agrees is not the point). Such a position may be wrong, but it isn’t as wild as claiming that God re-inspired the Bible when He gave the KJV.

    2. There were people at one church I attended in Indiana that believed you could not be saved if you used anything other than the KJV during your conversion. 😯

        1. Guilt Ridden,

          I don’t think that was Hyles. From my understanding, early in Hyles ministry he used something other than KJV. That heresy probably started with Peter Ruckman.

        2. I don’t know if it was original with Jack Hyles, but in his book “Enemies of Soul-Winning”, he writes in black and white that one cannot be saved unless he was led to Christ via the KJB. (presumably he just meant English speakers, but that’s bad enough).

          So, he definitely said it and promoted the idea.

  3. As soon as I see that flag that’s in the background I know that there are better things I should be doing than listening to one of those MOGs blabber. 😑

  4. Who is this idiot? I’m hearing things that I have never heard before. The translators of the KJV were all Pretribulation Rapture believers? Esther is supposedly a prefigure of the rapture of the church, and Esther herself proves that we are not to be loyal to civil authorities? Doesn’t this guy realize that the chapter and verse numberings came way after the books were written. As I listen, he’s now talking about punctuation. Is this punctuation in the 1611 or punctuation in the 1789 (??) revision.

    Oh, where in the world is he getting his interpretations? He says things, but he doesn’t prove them. Who is giving him these ideas? I’m sure he hasn’t thought them up himself. Rather, he looks like the type who would parrot the ideas of others.

    Gotta go to work, so I have to shut off the sermon, but I’m sure the rest is just as bad.

    1. LOL! The pre-trib rapture idea wasn’t even invented for another 200 years. History fail…

    2. This has to be one of the strangest things I’ve heard on here… into numerology much? As I wrote elsewhere here, 1611 (16+1+1=18) – is that an issue?

      Numerology is a very easy field to just make it up as one goes along. There **MAY** be something to the idea that certain numbers have meanings, but this guy seems well beyond that level.

  5. 6+6+6=18 which is the number for bondage. Huh?
    This video is packed with goodness. πŸ˜†

    1. If 18 is the number for bondage, what’s the number for domination? 😈

    2. But 5 (grace) + 6 (man) + 7 (divine completion) = 18, which would make 18 mean salvation by grace.

      And 3 (Trinity) + 7 (divine completion) + 8 (Jesus) = 18 — the fulness of the Godhead.

      Oh, that is right, I am no longer an IFB, so God would not be speaking through me. New revelation?

      1. You are right, Shoes would have been way more creative than me but I don’t like math… 😎

  6. No time to listen to a 12+ minute long sermon (though it’s sure a lot shorter than the sermons in the former church which were 60-70 minutes long sitting on hard pews, oh my aching posterior! I’ll have to listen later. πŸ˜†

    1. No matter. He makes a whole bunch of shtuff up, doesn’t really have a point. He is just laying down the groundwork so that when his listeners finally take half a look at how the chapters and verses were assigned, we will get more readers at SFL.

      The Lord moves in mysterious ways.

  7. Is that a King James Bible Conference??? Is he talking to normal idiots like me or studied ones????
    First thing in the morning, listened to all of it, now I’m cross eyed and inspired to collapse back into bed because life is just too hard.
    I did notice that most “amens” came when he said something like “this book is not boring”, rather than “Psalms is a transitional book, like Acts.” I don’t think those poor listeners got it either.

  8. Wow, I just can’t get over how much is being said. He is so into numerology, typology and forgets the contextual meaning of the book.

    6+6+6=18…The tribulation starting in Esther and Ending in Job? What? I’ve been in fundamentalist churches before, but this is some kind of loony.

  9. Mumble, mumble, mumble. I couldn’t make 30 seconds. Please, please, please if you are going to post a video on YouTube, make the audio and video worth watching. We cannot mock what we don’t understand.

  10. You’re travelling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mindlessness; a journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That Baptist flag is the signpost up ahead – your next stop, the IFB Zone!

    The Baptist flag in the background should have been warning enough.

  11. Vashti = the church? The Gentile queen had to be removed = the rapture of the church?

    The Bible is not ever boring? Has he read the places in the Bible that has lists of names? What does he do for fun, read the phone book? Maybe he counts the letters in each name to come up with some significance to make it more interesting.

  12. This guy is too crazy to even make it to a “National” Conference (SotL, FBC, PCC, BJU, etc.)

    I’ve been in “fundamentalism” my whole life and I’ve never heard any of this stuff – probably because most IFB’s would laugh at him.

    The book of Esther is a type of the rapture??
    The age of grace is ended and the age of Law reinstated at the end of the Tribulation???
    The verse numbering was inspired??

  13. Why did I try to listen to this before I had my coffee? This guy is quite out there on the fringes.
    I was hoping that someone would grab the Baptist flag and run around screaming.

    1. I love that one. Quick! Somebody post the one where they grab the flag and run around screaming! It would at least provide a hearty belly laugh.

  14. “The way the Book was put together undermines and destroys those that don’t believe in a pre-tribulational rapture, a tribulation, and a millennial reign after the tribulation. It totally destroys them”

    Q: How many non-pre-trib readers are now feeling “totally destroyed”? Come on now, ‘fess up.

    1. The thing is, I put in extra study to come to a non-pretrib position…so I didn’t know I was destroyed this whole time until I heard him say it!

      1. Wait, are you insinuating that the secret rapture, seven year (well, really two 3.5 year periods) tribulation and millenial kingdom story isn’t actually in the Bible?…

    1. Even though I think the KJV is the best translation one should be very, very careful about burning a copy of the Word of God regardless of the translation

      1. Curious: what is your criteria for determining “best” translation?

  15. I think the real issues is lost in the crazy fundy assumptions this man has. The real problem here is HE WAS COMPLETELY UNPREPARED FOR THIS SERMON!!! It’s all on the fly with typical vague statements after which he pausees….looks to the congregation…..gets his obligatory “amen” then moves on.

    1. I hate it when preachers pause for amens. Hate it!! Or they pause and give that look like “I just blew your mind”. No, you didn’t.

      When a preacher pauses for an “amen” after they say “God is good” fine, I understand. But most of the time they pause after saying something like “Psalms and Romans both have 6 letters, the number of man” . . .

    2. That’s the way most fundy preachers of that stripe “preach.” It is all stream-of-consciousness, “wherever the Lord leads” (thereby blaming God for their foolishness) seat-of-your-pants stage theater. They pick out a provocative text somewhere and then just let go. I’ve sat through enough of that nonsense to know the type.

      If you sit down with them privately, you will find many of them (certainly not all, but perhaps a slight majority) affirm orthodox doctrine (excluding their KJO nonsense) and are willing to allow for differences of opinion on certain issues in theology. But they get into the pulpit and they lose all inhibition and preach the foolishness over and over again on this site. This fact proves they are not being led by the Spirit of God into truth and are instead led by their own flesh, which fact should prohibit them from being allowed in any pulpit anywhere. But the folks in the audience are being just as much led by the flesh and like the extremism the same way people like extreme statements made by stage comedians.

      I had to come to grips with these feelings in my own life on my way out of fundyism.

      1. That should be “foolishness SEEN over and over.”

        Thanks, George. πŸ‘Ώ

    3. The Methodist minister was jealous of the IFB MOG. Methy spent so much time reading the bible and studying to prepare for his sermons. Each Saturday evening included a read through for his family. IFB seemed spend his time dashing about town, at the golf course, at the lake, on his boat, etc. One day Methy asked IFB how he did it. IFB replied that he did no sermon preparation, he simply prayed for inspiration on Sunday mornings.

      Methy decided to give it a try. On Monday he took his family to the lake. On Tuesday they went boating. On Wednesday golfing, etc. Then on Sunday morning he rose to deliver his sermon…and nothing came to him. He turned his face upward and asked “Lord God, please provide me with inspiration.” Nothing. “Lord God, what would you have me to say to my congregation?” Nothing. “Lord God, what message can you give me this morning.” A thundering voice came from above “You were not prepared!” :mrgreen:

        1. His voice sounds like Dr Weird from the beginning of each episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force…..Gentlemen Behold!

  16. LOL. If the Bible is so important and interesting, why doesn’t he just quote it instead of boring us with his speech.

  17. I stopped it when he said, “When the King James translators were led by the Holy Spirit to…” He made it sound like “Holy men of old, God-breathed, etc.”
    Did he yell? He started out rather mild-mannered and quiet. Maybe he is new at it.

  18. This is why I visit Stufffundieslike. You would all consider me IFB, but I think this guy is a complete idiot to spend 12 minutes on this or even one for that matter. He exemplifies everything that is wrong with the IFB movement. A “sermon” on why the KJV should be read but never any Scripture. I think the best point in his mind was 6+6+6= the 18th book of the Bible. If Preachers would just preach the stuff written in black (and red) instead of all the stuff they find in the white areas of the page they would be far better off. This is lunacy, and He should be ashamed of this 12 minute video. IMH(IFB)O
    FYI- there are many of us out here who would condemn this type of “preaching”, so called.

  19. If the guy was genuinely humble, he would just say, “Hey, Ethelbert Bullinger came up with some good stuff on Biblical numerology over a hundred years ago, you could read into it and find some neat applications for yourself, if you like.” 18 is the number of bondage. NEVER heard that one before.

    BTW, he said they are under the law during the tribulation. That is not proper dispensational teaching. They are under a faith PLUS works set-up in the tribulation (no taking the mark), but not under “the Law”. You don’t have to believe that yourself (obviously), I’m just pointing out that the “Law” is not the issue in dispensationalism, but “enduring to the end” is the issue.

  20. Another interesting thing about the King James Bible (actually, all of our Bibles) is that the epistles from Paul are arranged in the order of …..size.

    Yes, the reason Paul’s writings run from Romans to II Thessalonians is based on length. Then the three pastoral epistles are grouped together with the ending being the shortest epistle, Philemon. If our Bible was arranged chronologically, the first epistle would either be James, Galatians, or I Thessalonians, it is not clear.

    1. That link was AWESOME and SO appropriate, wish you could find a way to send it to him and all the others in resposnse to some of the nonsense videos that have been posted here, like Grice for example… πŸ˜•

    2. I agree awesome retort. also what would work “go sell crazy somewhere else we are all stocked up here”-Jack Nicholson (as good as it gets

  21. He just posted that today. I’m sure he’d appreciate some thoughtful comments challenging his statements.

    1. We are promised great things for those who endure until the end. Lightweight. πŸ˜€

  22. I can’t believe what some men pass off as preaching. This is take my ideas, read it into a few verses, and try to impress people with your so called knowledge and wisdom that the world or church at large doesn’t know. What is bad is that the sheeple following this man probably eat it up and think they have learned something. Now I need to do something to wake my brain up. πŸ˜₯

  23. “18 is the number of bondage…”

    Unless you’re a fundamentalist teen approaching your 18th birthday.

    If only he’d use Powerpoint. Or a chalkboard. That way, he could graphically show his logical progressions instead of just saying, “Hello?”

  24. Howard Hendricks wrote in one of his teaching books: “Whatever you do, don’t bore people with the Word of God.” 😐

  25. especially at about 4:00 ( I didn’t listen after that) this is some of the dumbest stuff I have ever heard. Who is this doofus? BTW – most of you would consider me some kind of fundy – but this stuff is just stupid.

  26. “If this book bores you, it’s not a problem with the book, it’s a problem with your heart.” Ya know, seeing stuff like that on SFL really helps me detoxify. …For serious. Because once upon a time I actually believed that. I believed it because I had convinced myself that the Bible didn’t bore me.

  27. The 1611 KJV Bible is not what you have today in the KJV. The original KJV included the following books:

    1 Esdras
    2 Esdras
    Additions to Esther
    Wisdom of Solomon
    Letter of Jeremiah
    Prayer of Azariah
    Bel and the Dragon
    Prayer of Manasseh
    1 Maccabees
    2 Maccabees

    If the 1611 KJV is the inspired Word of God Bible you have no business removing these books. And if the 1611 Bible scholars added those books without God’s permission, how were they inspired? Today, the religious fundies distrust government. The KJV Bible was a GOVERNMENT project.

    You msy read the 1611 KJV Bible here:


    And if the 1611 KJV is the one and only, you can still purchase copies of it,and not use any other fake KJV Bible version. You can’t have it both ways.

  28. If you want to think that the KJV is the best translation go right ahead. I think it is the best. But just because the KJV is the best does not mean every other translation is bad. Just because something is the best does not mean it is the best for every person out there.

    1. Many fundy pastors have used the archaic language in the KJV to twist the meaning of Scriptures. It would not be as easy to do this if they were using a modern version.

  29. I saw the Baptist Flag in the background before I even clicked “play.” That and my allergic reaction to the KJV…


    …sorry. Where was I? Oh yeah, Baptist Flag, bibliolatry (probably) and numerology, if the comments are any indication. There are better ways to spend 12 minutes of my life.

  30. So glad my covenant theology beliefs have separated me from this guy’s camp of thinking. Newsflash: the Bible is not about the Pre-millennium, it’s about Jesus from Genesis to Revelation. Every book is about Him! Not some goofy numbers that you manage to put together to cause people to fear the future and God Almighty.

  31. The dude deleted some comments left on the video page. Surprise!

    SFL: Ignoring Criticism

  32. Tags from the video page:

    Pastor Jerry Myers Marc Grizzard Amazing Grace Baptist Church Bingham Heights Baptist Church KJB KJV Preaching Sermon Baptists Old Fashion Authorized King James Version KJV1611 Bible Scriptures

  33. ……..This man is rambling on for 12 minutes…but he really doesn’t have any idea what he’s talking about. How sad πŸ™ . It looks like he spent more time practicing his attempts at looking/sounding “profound” then really thinking the content through. Oh, numerology *headsmack*

  34. This is probably one of the most inane things I have ever heard! He clearly thinks this is some wonderful discovery that he has just made. No-one else in the history of the Church has ever said this (unless he’s regurgitating it from some misbegotten volume or sermon by someone else, which is always a possibility). No-one has ever seen this in the Bible before.

    This for the very good reason that it is not there. I am reminded of the story of the astronomer who described the ‘Canali’ on Mars, which no-one else has ever been able to find. The reason for that, some think today, was that the man was suffering from cataracts, and was in fact seeing the inside of his own eyeball. So this is Eisegesis, reading into the Bible your own theology, rather than deriving theology from the Bible.

  35. Funnily enough, I just compared the order of the books in the KJV to my 1609 Douay-Rheims (in the 1955 Catholic Truth Society edition). The order of books is the same, apart from the Apocrypha being included in the Old Testament. And of course the Geneva Bible had the same order as well.

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