There are fundies. Then there are crazy fundies. Then there are these kinds of fundies who even make most other fundamentalists a little nervous. They are Baptists “like John the Baptist, our Lord, His apostles, and many martyrs.” Well then.
Since it is the season don’t miss the front-page rant on Christmas as spiritual adultery.
352 thoughts on “FWOTW: LetGodBeTrue.com”
“Man’s responsibility to his fellow man is limited to the work of conversion – the educational process by which the elect come to know Jesus Christ and lay hold of the promise of eternal life in Him.”
Apparently some of the words of our Lord can simply be ignored.
Ben Mott has had sex with members wife’s at the church of detroit. He has been practicing tax evasion and advising members of the church to be more anti government.
I’m curious as to how you know this?
Have you listened to the Sermon titled “Acting on Principle, however small”?
What? Please elaborate.
is this web-site saying that America’s Thanksgiving is more God-Ordained than Christmas or Easter? WOW! What if you are not Ameican? There seems to be prescious little a Christian can celebrate this side of Heaven….
Yesterday I bought a black Santa Hat with the words “BAH HUMBUG” printed large in black on the white rim. I wish I could give one to every Fundy
On the Christmas theme
This church is intense! Listening to audio right now.
Yes, Brother Crosby is a good minister of righteousness. He declares the truth without compromise 😉
Except when it comes to himself….how about “thou shalt not commit adultery”??? and the stoning that the OT demands that comes afterwards if you want “uncompromising the truth”. Ha! Yeah right. 🙄 That guy is no different than any other religious soothsayer. Dude you are brainwashed by an engaging speaker, remember that Hitler was also good at the art of public speaking, persuasion & manipulation.
It sure is easy for you to namecall everyone here “ignorant” as if only Brother Boffey, Brother Mott and Brother Jarrell are the only people who know truth. Seriously, do yourself a favor & get some information & open your mind so you don’t waste your whole life in that Westboro Baptist off shoot.
Their teachings have nothing to do with a good God or Jesus. Wise up & get free from them.
Did you not see the winkie face? Or does that not mean sarcasm?
My apologies for the misunderstanding. I get upset by those self righteous people & it seemed to be an “amen sister” posting that agreed w/ those religious nutjobs. …kind of hard to tell if you don’t see someone talking with their tone of voice & inflections. they might add a “sarcasm” smilie..of course there could be one, I’ve never taken the time to see all of the emoticons… 😉
KJV only, hyper-critical about secondary issues and beliefs, belief in one ruling pastor instead of plurality of godly elders/pastors, weak defense on why they aren’t legalistic, judgmental, divisive, no musical instruments, etc. It seems very controlling and authoritarian to me. Yes you could say a cult!!!
what is the truth why do u mention adultery who committed adultery
Wow. I hope you and your buddies don’t profess the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Let me tell you what Johnathan Crosby has done for me. Almost a year ago, i lost my job, my family, my car, and my home. I was on the street completely helpless. Johnathan and his wife took me into their home. He has been a father to me. Johnathan paid for every single expense I aquired. Food, clothing, meals, and hygiene products. He helped me get a job and wanted me to save every penny. He has taught me precious truth. He financed my home and practically loaned me $30,000. He helped me win my wife and children back. He is still helping me. No one in my life has shown me this kind of love. I love him very much and thank the Lord for him daily.
I pray that the bitterness and hate you all have is destroyed before you lay prostrate at the feet of Almighty God. What a dreadful day that will be for a malicious and hateful soul that lacks forgiveness and true repentance.
You can’t possibly know that anyone here is guilty of “bitterness and hate” unless someone has told you this, or unless you are part of the omniscient godhead. Or do you have the gift of prophesy?
It’s nice that some guy has done all this for you. Just remember that nothing in life is free. As an old-timey preacher once said “payday someday”!
who committed adultery???????????????????????
shadow please get my e mail and e mail me ajc
I grew up in that church. Intense is only th begining. Christmas is only 1 pet doctrine they have that they have to have to make them different from the rest of Christianity.
Hello Ex-member, I was visiting some of these churches and had some concerns that maybe you could help me with, but I don’t want it to be a public discussion. can you privately email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
No, Fred. but someone else here who is using there name openly may be will e mail you.
you shall know the truth, PASTOR CROSBY does not hold punches or cares about mans opinons.He preaches Gods word( kjv 1611) the way its shoud be taught!
trying to learn more about j. crosby. any sites?
LMAO at this idiot’s rant against Christmas….
Somehow he equates celebrating Christmas with committing adultery and then he goes into the following definition of adultery:
“1. Adultery is horrible. When a woman gives her body and love to another man for intimate sexual pleasures, she terribly betrays her husband. He is defrauded by having his most personal and prized object treacherously shared with a competitor.”
Note how he says the wife is a “prized object”…
The way he’s written this rant, I think he’s probably been cheated on by his most prized object….Hell, if I were married to this loon, I’d step out on him!
This guy fell off the crazy truck and bumped his head a few times before he came to a stop…. 😯
Ok I didn’t read the whole site there but did it really say this about a woman giving herself to another man she defrauds her husband since she is his possession or some such falderal? Did it say that it’s the same for the man if he commits adultery? I get so FED UP with the idea that adultery is only about a man cheating another man out of what belongs to him. What about the wife? If my husband cheats on me it’s first ME he has hurt, not the other woman’s husband IF she’s married. Why is it always about the man?
I just know when I finally find the time to read this whole site I am going to have smoke blowing out of my ears! 👿 👿 👿 👿 👿
Just wanted to say that I meant HE, Jon Crosby is projecting. Of course these guys can get away w/ messing around. one powerful man did in the cult I left & a “brother” in the cult justified the adultery, “well, you know king David took Bathsheba…” I was like WOW. 😯 that was an eye opener. For all of the “we have the truth” those folks were NO different, even worse because they deceived others to believe they were different, more righteous than those other “lukewarm” christians. They conveyed the image that they are a higher level of “true christians”..what a bunch of BS 👿 …& you are sooo right, to that pastor it’s all about the woman being the possession of the man & the man is defrauded. 👿 I guess to him it’s not even a MORAL issue of adultery against his wife, it’s about fraud ????
That guy is f*cked up! 👿
I agree with you. It’s very difficult to read all this rules he enforces on these people who believe his nonsense!!
I wrote him and ask a couple easy questions but when I asked a question about certain things he’s doing that are not biblical, he wouldn’t write back.
They can’t even have any musical instruments.
The pastor has a very shady history, and he’s not one to be talkin about adultry.
I know it Ex-member…seems for Pastor B that he has no business rebuking anyone for adultery….
I meant to say “Pastor C” as in Crosby…sorry.
who r u talking about which pastor ajc
what shady history
What shady history?????????????????????
Warning: this is a gossip site.
God will judge us in the same way that we judge others.
ex member I should just let it go but what is the real deal with J. Crosby ajc What is his shady history? ajc
You wrote: “The way he’s written this rant, I think he’s probably been cheated on by his most prized object”
Maybe it’s the reverse of that……..some “projection” going on possibly???? 💡
Shadow Gallery, I’m interested in knowing who you are. I fled there as well and absolutly beleve that somebody would say that.
I was not a member of Crosby’s church, but another controlling pastor who had an axe to grind w/ Crosby was more than happy to share with our congregation the dirty laundry of Pastor Crosby.
Of course I am no longer a member of that church thankfully. These guys use the same MO. I never would have known about it had he not gleefully shared it with the congregation what a sinner Crosby is! So sad…the whole thing really.
What had Crosby done that is so bad
Click on the “About our Church” for a real hoot!
“We sweat the small stuff for good reason, and you should be sweating it with us”
These idiots would feel right at home with the Fred Phelps clan…
In one of their sermons I listened to part of online (I can’t find it now) the “pastor” said that the Bible says that we can “hate sinful men”. Fred Phelps also peddles that false teaching.
Jesus Christ told us to love our enemies, so there is no one that we are allowed to hate.
Their hatred of others is justified in their minds, they use the OT that says “God hatest all workers of iniquity” or possibly Roman’s 9.
Typical “hatred” gospel spewed from their bully pulpits by these types of religious whackos. 🙁
Never mind the sayings of Jesus about loving your enemies.. 🙄
For men like Crosby and Phelps to compare their own sinful hatred of other people to God’s wrath against sin is blasphemy.
For these men the commands of Christ go in one ear and out the other. 🙁
Read what these hateful men posted about the 2010 Haiti Earthquake:
I found the above on their 2010 “sermons” page:
“hateful”…very apt description.
How “biblical” is a cassette tape “ministry” or having a “church” website? ❓ Oh…right…they just use that “biblical” thingy when it suits their agenda…which is to make everyone who isn’t doing “religion” the way they say so feel real bad & guilty. 👿
Now that I’ve had adequate time to look at their website, I have the following observation:
This guy is a whole Christmas fruitcake full of nuts! Too bad someone left the brandy out.
Well, to tell you all the truth, I cannot believe that you would blaspheme this man and his teachings (whatever they be) simply because you don’t believe what he does. This man has dedicated his life to preaching the Truth. Where does the Bible say to celebrate and remember His birth? Where does the Bible say to celebrate His death with ester bunnies, hot-cross-buns, and sunrise services. I do believe that in Eph 5:4,20, Phil 4:6, Col 1:3, 12 and many other places we’re called to give thanks to God for His many mercies. This church is not just going on assumptions, hunches, trying to please the public (if they were they are obviously failing), this church seems to only be doing what they know by the Bible to be right. Let God Be True is obviously on the right track for following what the Bible has to say. (P.S. About the website and ministering online not being in the Bible – I think you forgot to check: 1Cor9:16, 2Cor10:16, 1 Tim4:2, Mark16:15. May Jesus Christ be praised!
wow..blaspheme..a man? You seem to be equating that leader right up there with God.?
Sure that leader thinks he’s doing religion better than anyone else & his job is to convince others that he’s got *it*, the true church, the true faith. I’m sure he’s very persuasive & good at speaking & talking & telling others what to think, what to believe & how to live.
“Dedicated his life to preaching the Truth” you say? Nonsense. What about his DOINGS, his works? Anyone can talk, what about the things he DOES?
Funny how you defend that man & his way of doing “church” & you believe his interpretations & proclivities about “doing only what the bible says…” You are following along what this man, who thinks he’s a “man of God”, is promulgating. You do not see the inconsistencies in that pastor using non biblical methods including the internet, website, on-line sermons, heck, if you all really want to be biblical, why not go the Amish way?
I see the usual picking & choosing what bible verses defend ones personal persuasion of christianity & how you so willingly defend the leader. No doubt he’s convinced people that he’s been “called” of God? right? Who is to validate that supposed “calling”? What, just because HE says so?
Thousands of men & women think they’ve been “called” to do God’s work, which oftentimes ends up doing nothing but their own will & work, NOT GOD’s.
You might want to check out this online book.
You could copy & paste it into your browser to check it out. Link:
It might help you.
btw..I think it’s funny how there’s a focus on spiritual adultery..yet what about REAL adultery?
Amen Marie! These people are ignorant. Brother Crosby, Brother Mott, Brother Boffey and others are masters of assemblies!(Ecclesiastes12:11) 😉
Didn’t Crosby commit adultery at his stay in the Church of Detroit when he had six children and impregnate another woman of the church. Just to make sure we are talking about the same person. Maybe practice what you preach don’t apply to the preachers in this church?
O.K. Crosby repented – genuinely repented That is what makes this different from other cases His life shows it. He has an amazing insight on 70 AD and Alexander the Great and the living word of God etc.
He is not on the right track and is not teaching or preaching the Truth!!! The bible teaches the church to have more than one pastor! Who holds him accountable. He won’t even answer the question when you ask him!! He’s all about power and control!! You’re brainwashed!!
Hey Concerned, you hit the nail on the head. I know these guys and they are power crazed. They are God’s Nazis if you ask me. Yet people follow them because they are persuasive speakers and use manipulation, guilt, fear and shame to cause people to “convert” to their brand of Christianity. It’s very sad.
I have askd same questions and got bad answers. Coming from an admitted adulteror, you cant expect truth.
did he admit to adultery
Amen Marie! These people are ignorant. Brother Crosby, Brother Mott, Brother Boffey and others are masters of assemblies!(Ecclesiastes12:11)
Amen. And I go to a liberal church Calvary. I wish my pastor will preach like this man !
Who r Mott and Boffey
Ben Mott is a preacher who had the Crosby’s in his church in the Detroit area for a while. (IMHO the same type of church Crosby has is similar to the Mott church, very controlling, excommunicate people, you can only marry church members, they have the “true church-tm” type) My guess is that Crosby patterns his church similarly to Mott’s, just what I think anyhow.
Pastor Tim Boffey was ordained by Ben Mott & started the same type of “we’re doing religion better than anyone else..we have the -true church-tm- church” . I think Ben Mott may have ordained Paul Crosby- Jonathon Crosby’s older brother but it’s a little fuzzy. I thought he did- but I’m not sure..??
Icome from catholic background, then liberal christianity, now attending a liberal Calvary Chapel Chuck Smith branch.
To be honest this guy Crosby ,and his sermons about supremacy of God and exalting Jesus, are fenomenal !! so spirit filled. And his Daily Proverbs are superb.
google origins of Christmass and eastern= is a resultof the hellish marriage between Roman catholics and paganism.
Only a confused believer or a hater of truth will dislike this Pastor and website letgodbetrue.
Grammar, punctuation and proper spelling are your friends. Do not be afraid of them.
He’s a good speaker all right…and so was Hitler
Jesus was a great speaker, the best one ever. But the masses and the world hated Him , mocked him and finally killed Him. People can’t stand the truth, can’t stand being told they are sinners , can’t stand listening to a man telling them “you guys follow false religion”.
Hitler was loved and follow by millions, because he spoke lies, lies his audience loved to hear.
letgodbe true.com has little following, and the world hate this teachers because he exposes counterfeit Christianity and idolatry. That simple.
It wasn’t the masses who hated Jesus and killed Him. It was the self-righteous religious leaders who did that. Back then they were called pharisees. Today they are called independant fundamentalist baptists.
really? so how you will twist Jesus words “the world hate me”.?? (Gospel of John -at any translation)
Only the Pharisees ?? And the romans,and the gentile world that hated Jesus and killed the first century Apostles and Christians??
And by reading this anti-fundy website, the real self-rightheous are all you guys seating in the mocking bench of this blog. Self – rightheousness is all over this blog. Blindness and a hard heart as well.
We can only assume that you are related to someone or on staff at this church. Your hero worship is showing.
Legalism, judgmentalism, urbanlegendism, and sensationalism fill this site and are fundie as fundie can be. Just because they are Calvinistic doesn’t mean that they are not fundie.
The halmark of fundieism is KJV-onlism, and these folks are KJV. That shows a supreme lack of scholarship and a tendency towards mystical superstition. There is more judgmental spiritual mysticism in their articles on such recent issues as the Haiti earthquake. Sporting such titles as, “Earthquakes are to punish wicked men for the glory of God.”
Now you can ask on here and you will find that I am a staunch defender of the Sovereignty of God… but these folks make a mockery of God by portraying him as a vindictive, petty, vengeful god “grinding the wicked” under the weight of his wrath.
I guess it makes them feel better that God is pouring out his wrath on people they think are evil rather than actually praying for, and rendering aid to those who were affected by such a devastating disaster. Did they ever think that God may have allowed the earthquake in order to see if those who claim to be Christians will put their faith in shoe-leather?
So, unless you are the pastor, on staff, married to or related to one of the same, you hero worship of letgodbetrue website is misplaced.
Not sir, for your disappointment I go to a free will arminian Calvary Chapel. You’re write as a supporter of the counterfeit “Jesus of today’s apostate culture Christianity “.
I found a weird coincidence that fellow Christians that reject sanctification and repentance (self-rightheous) hate this guy.
I don’t agree 100% with him but he’s very helpful making some distinction on crucial and hard text and verses on today’s apostate American Christianity.
This non bias writer is very judgement. The whole church is! I’ve never understand how people will give up their lives to follow a man! A man who totally twist scripture and takes it out of context!!
Lord have mercy of you people. No music instruments because it’s not mentioned in the NT. And then turns around and uses the OT when it fits his fancy.
I encourage you to seek God and His Righteousness not this man. He is in err in so much of his teaching.
Concerned, thanks for pointing out how they use the OT when it FITS their agenda, doctrine, axe to grind, etc. Yet they neglect to teach the parts of the OT that disagree w/ their dogma, how convenient.
they think they have the True Church tm…sad sorry little men they are. The people in their little fiefdoms, er I mean church- are terrified to speak out. they are completely brainwashed by these control freak men who call themselves “men of god”. I’m glad you see through it because unfortunately they are able to get people to follow them. I should know I used to follow a guy just like Crosby…so glad I saw the light and got out. It took a very long time, but thank God my family and I got freed from the craziness of those types of bible thumpers. They are abusive!!
Or ppl who have left that church and know what rlly goes on there. Ask the dozens of families who fled.
peace in Jesus brother
Seems that they need to practice what they preach. From their
Articles of Faith:
Definition of Good Works:
We believe that good works are only such as God commands in His holy Word, and not such as are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intentions.
So according to them the only Good works that are Good works are those found in the KJV. So unless you have scripture for it you can’t count your good works as good works?
Wait, wait, wait… I’ve been out of the IFB so long now I almost forgot that you can get special interpretations and dispensations from the M-O-g, after all that’s what he’s there for; to Judge what works are good and which are bad.
Exactly Don. The #1 good work according to Crosby & others of his stripe is join THEIR church, warm the benches & listen to all of the sermons to be indoctrinated more and more until you can’t think for yourself. I’ve seen it.
They think that listening to preaching, or should I say -forced indoctrination- is the end all be all of being “godly”. the “ministry” is all about feeding the pastor’s ego & giving people guilt trip & the teaching & preaching. They give society nothing good & it produces self righteous & cruel people. I’ve seen it w/ my own eyes…..
It’s so good to be out of that!! 😈
You guys sound like a bunch of self -rightheous Non believers.
I went to Google and searched for “satanic Bible “,and their most important commandment and sounds like you guys : “Do as you will” is the most important satanic commandment.
And this satanic Bible rant against the real Bible and believers just you guys do same words and comments .
This blog is scary.
nonbias, churches like that also have a number one commandment which is “Do as your pastor will…”
That guy just wants a following and it’s a pretty good money making gig too I bet.
No, truth does not come from KJV, it comes from Crosby. He calls himself The Mouthpiece of God and the Man of God.
“We believe that good works are only such as God commands in His holy Word, and not such as are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intentions.”
What a limited view of God. He says in His Word that even a cup of cold water given in His name will be rewarded. Why would He not appreciate our using whatever opportunities come our way to do good?
It reminds me of the servant with one talent in the parable who thought his master was a hard man and buried his talent just in case he’d lose it. He was so scared of offending his master that he didn’t attempt to invest and ironically he ended up displeasing his master.
Whether therefore ye eat or drink or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. I don’t think I’m limited to JUST what Scripture says.
How did this thread suddenly start attracting replies written in jibberish?
Because you do not have ears to hear the truth. He says 911 was the finger of God?!?!? Good grief. God has nothing to do with sin or evil!!! Was was evil men who follow the devil the day of 911,,
This church has NO GRACE!!
We teach, expect, and enforce godly living. Really??? Enforce? That right there is power and control!!!!
Sheesh, I used NeverAgainV when I was using ShadowGalleryV…ah well. Sorry about that, my bad. LOL!
Ok, so after reading through all of the rants, all of the tactics used to discredit, and undermine the preaching of the gospel; I’d like to take one minute and explain to you why this man is God’s ambassador to His children here on earth.
First, are you (ShadowGalleryV primarily) aware of what Ad Hominem is? No? Ad Hominem is when an argument is a personal attack on the man not the message. Obviously you had a very bad taste of a personal experience in the past. You try to convince everyone that the message is the problem, when you really haven’t combated the message – you’ve just tried your best to tare down the man.
You stated that the people are forced into indoctrination by Brother Crosby, and yet haven’t convinced a single person on this blog by true evidence that the doctrine is incorrect. What’s the problem with the WORD? Why should we logically give up this “truth” because of your personal bias against the men preaching it? These are bigger concerns than whether or not the man is the best qualified.
Do you believe in any man preaching/teaching any topic? Is it ok for leaders in AA to give advice about not drinking when they may have got drunk in their life? Is it ok for health nutritionists to give advice to eat a vegetarian diet when they may have had a Big Mac in their life? Are you ok with prior drug addicts giving motivational lectures to current drug addicts about not doing drugs? Ok – so you’re ok with this. Why would you expect a preacher to be blameless and “perfect”? He’s just a man and like any other man in the whole world – he has sinned. You have sinned. I have sinned. “Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” If you’re going to “diss” his whole message because he has sinned – then you must believe that there is no absolute truth to be taught anywhere because you’ll never be given a message by a perfectly sinless human.
God forgive us all when we have fallen short.
These men are trying their best to preach the Word of God. Give them credit. Pray for them. They are just men, but they are giving themselves incredibly for the service of the Most High.
Ad Hominem? Let’s not attack the man. If you need, attack his message, let him refute your arguments, change what you need to change, and move on with your life.
I hope this was a little insightful. In Christ alone,
No Ad Hominem
This is not meant to be an attack, but your opening paragraph stated that you would “explain..why this man is God’s Ambassador to his children here on earth.” While you provided several good examples of why one should not discredit a preacher simply due to past moral failings, you failed to really prove how and why JRC is God’s ambassador.
While, I would strongly agree with you on the issue of the KJV, and likely 90% or so of the other doctrines and beliefs of the COG, there are many, very serious things wrong with that place that cannot be ignored. First and foremost, it is a cult. I am not using that word as a slur or insult either, it is a fact. And JRC himself admits this to his followers and brainwashes them into believing that it’s a good thing, primarily by convincing them that the entire early church was a cult. One of the biggest things to me is the control. People are being used and manipulated and controlled for his purposes, often times without even realizing it. You’re not allowed to think for yourself, and if you do you better keep your mouth shut, unless you have a “tsunami of bible evidence”…and yet JRC himself does not have a tsunami of scriptural evidence for many positions he holds and imposes on his congregants. Front page of LGBT insults and mocks nearly every other “ambassador” of God’s word, “Questions Your Pastor Hopes You Won’t Ask”…yet, the double standard of his followers never being allowed to sincerely come to him with questions without being rebuked and branded as a scorner and the like.
The way anyone who leaves that church is cast off for good, unless they return to the COG. You can’t be called or led away to any other group of believers and leave on amicable terms, because the COG is the only church. Why are you able to have “heretical” arminian friends from BJU and elsewhere, but not allowed to continue a friendship with anyone who leaves? Think about this. Why is JRC so hellbent on closing all doors of communication between those who stay and those who depart? Many who have left may not have left in the most righteous way possible, and at least a few of those are truly sorry for not handling their exit in a more biblical, Christlike manner…but, all do acknowledge that it would never have mattered how careful they were ensure a gracious withdrawal from membership, not even the most scriptural measures would have sufficed. Their entire character would be smeared and tarnished. It’s the way there can never be any forgiveness or mercy or fellowship toward and with people who’ve left unless they rejoin in membership. The exclusion doctrine itself is not the problem, it’s the way serial adulterers are allowed to have their sins swept under a rug as long they stay in the COG, but those who leave receive a scarlet letter.
The examples could go on and on. JRC is very crafty, cunning, slick, and admittedly manipulative. This reply is not meant to be an ad Hominem against JRC, but he has highly exalted himself to this position and his fruit must be examined. If you say that others have exalted him, you’re right about that, and he has allowed them to, robbing Jesus Christ of the glory due His name, and yet he skillfully parades around under this pretentious humility. He flatters his members, tickling their ears, and knows how to get what he wants out of people. Praise is not unbiblical, but he uses praise in such a way that many men in that place do more to serve him than actually following the Holy Spirit within them to serve Jesus Christ. He steals your time, your money, and your entire life if you let him. True christians should be free. Not carrying around the burden and yoke of JRC and the COG. Jesus’s yoke is easy and his burden is light. He is all glorious and He alone deserves all the praise.
I couldnt have said it better myself. This is true.
I also agree Another anonymous.
The thing is, what I have found since before I left the Detroit cult and after is that the WORST enemy of theirs is one who WAS a member and has dared to leave.
The reason for the harsh treatment, shunning and church discipline/excommunication sermons is to of course shame and discredit the person who has the courage to say “Enough!” and leave. And secondly it is to put FEAR in the minds of those who are still warming the seats. To tighten the screws and make sure that those who remain do not dare to get ideas of questioning and then ultimately leaving.
If the guy had no devout followers he would be nothing..so he needs to do everything in his power to keep the status quo. No questions, No thinking outside of the box he has put everyone in, No outside influences to open people’s minds.
It is quite the mind game for sure and these guys are good at it. However people can only take so much and it will be interesting to see what happens over time.
Thank you Red. I sure wish those groups would dissolve or implode. They cause so much hurt and damage to people and their lives.
I get angry thinking about it. I wish I could do more, but as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink.
Somehow people need a crack in the whole mind game, then you just hope over time that crack gets larger until they can begin to see through it. It’s sad how lives are wasted on these power crazed narcissists. 🙁
Red Baker, you sermon “Wiles of the Devil”, from 2009, when you stopped every mouth, is still on the site. So relax.
Hi Ad Hom,
Hmm, first you assume I don’t know what an Ad-hom is. Um….I’m college educated and took classes in logic, but thanks for assuming that I didn’t know and that you could be ever so kind as to show little, ignorant me.
Second, you have no proof that this statement you make is true, “yet haven’t convinced a single person on this blog by true evidence that the doctrine is incorrect. …” How the hell would you even know every single person who looks at this blog? Let alone their conclusions?
As far as me trying to “tare down the man…” first that would be “tear” down the man I believe. 😉 I’m just trying to share with others MY experiences in the Detroit church & having been exposed to that type of controlling abusive religion.
Oh and btw you are right about 1 thing, I definitely think their message IS a problem, no question about that. I won’t agrue doctrine but since you think I’m SO wrong, you never did address their adding the belief in a book to the confession of faith. I heard crickets chirping…
I’ll add another..
those guys teach THEY have the TRUE CHURCH where they are at…when the bible clearly teaches in Luke – ..”the kingdom of God comes not with observation, neither shall they say, Lo here! or Lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you”? Luke 17:20-21 But those guys try to convince people that THEY have the keys to the kingdom. Because you know as well as I do that if you leave that is equated with leaving “the kingdom”. So much for the kingdom of god is within you.
why is it when these men (pastors) commit adultery, it is because they are human and sinned. Poor little men. Yet so many men who are not pastors, do not commit adultery. Why is adultery so common among these “pastors”???????? The churches are big money making businesses and the pastors are their CEO’s.
dear friend :romans:8.7-matthew 7:6
Since when is it a part of the gospel to believe that the KJV is God’s word? I have seen people be baptised and in their “confession” which is supposed to be a confession in faith in JESUS, they will confess that they also believe the KJV is god’s word.
They have ADDED to the gospel with that. There is no example of confession to have faith in the KJV. so that’s just for starters. So with that you see they had ADDED to the gospel which is faith only in Christ!
If you don’t choose a Bible, you can’t choose a religion. Bible versions vary TREMENDOUSLY. http://www.letgodbetrue.com/pdf/proving-the-kjv.pdf Yes, I’m using their website as proof. No, I don’t need to go and do all the work over again. I don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Yes, I can find others that support the argument that the King James Version is the inspired word of God in our language.
Since when does one need to profess “belief” in the KJV to be a follower of Jesus. I thought the “gospel” was the good news of JESUS? The profession of faith is faith in Christ, is it not? Since when is it faith in a book?
I don’t read anywhere in any bible about people confessing faith in a book. These guys have ADDED to the gospel, plain and simple.
I know all of the supposed reasons those guys worship the KJV. I’ve been there and used to think like them. Fortunately over time I began to see many hypocrisies and inconsistencies in the doctrine & manner of life. Over time I had enough and left.
As far as the KJV goes, how come the versions used today do not contain the Apocrypha that the 1611 ORIGINAL bible had? So your King James version is not even the same as the original! In addition there were errors in the first editions:
“Two editions of the whole Bible are recognized as having been produced in 1611, which may be distinguished by their rendering of Ruth 3:15; the first edition reading “he went into the city”, where the second reads “she went into the city.”- these are known colloquially as the “He” and “She” Bibles.”
There are thousands of sects who say THEY have the proper interpretation of the bible & everyone else is wrong. Anyone can use the bible to back up their version of Christianity. Oh and please remember, “by their fruits you shall know them” so anyone who is a preacher better be of a higher moral caliber than the average folk, but of course we know they aren’t now are they..wink. Yet the majority of pastor’s put themselves above the flock, just the same as the Catholic priests they always cut down. At least w/ the Catholics they have hierarchies, wheras in the Crosby/Mott church it’s a one man dictatorship! LOL These pastors will give THEIR interpretation of the bible and you had better not disagree lest you be tossed out, church disciplined and excommunicated.
Those guys can’t handle anyone who has a different viewpoint, I know -I’ve seen it!
I know all of the reasons those guys worship the KJV. I used to think like them. Fortunately over time I began to see many hypocrisies and inconsistencies in the doctrine & manner of life.
As far as the KJV goes, how come the versions used today do not contain the Apocrypha that the 1611 ORIGINAL bible had? So your King James version is not even the same as the original! In addition there were errors in the first editions:
“Two editions of the whole Bible are recognized as having been produced in 1611, which may be distinguished by their rendering of Ruth 3:15; the first edition reading “he went into the city”, where the second reads “she went into the city.”- these are known colloquially as the “He” and “She” Bibles.”
There are thousands of sects who say THEY have the proper interpretation of the bible & everyone else is wrong. Anyone can use the bible to back up their version of Christianity. Oh and please remember, “by their fruits you shall know them” so anyone who is a preacher better be of a higher moral caliber than the average folk, but of course we know they aren’t now are they..wink.wink. Yet the majority of pastors put themselves above the flock. In the Crosby/Mott church it’s a one man dictatorship! LOL These pastors will give THEIR interpretation of the bible and you had better not disagree lest you be tossed out, church disciplined and excommunicated.
Those guys can’t handle anyone who has a different viewpoint.
Sorry about the double post! My bad!
Wish I had a way to conect with you. I’m an exmember.
I am not fearful of them. A long time ago I was a member there and after I left them God called me to the gospel ministry. Crosby’s doctrine is for the most part false. He does not believe in eternal Sonship of Christ. That is just one doctrine he rejects. There are many problems in that “church”. Anyone who has left the church can contact me if they need someone to talk to . I am on Facebook.
Regarding ad hominen attacks…maybe Jesus wasn’t aware that he shouldn’t bring up the behavior of certain folks in his day. He stated quite a few times “Woe unto you”…and then proceeded to point out his targets’ hypocritical behaviors.
Just something to think about…
My experience w/ those pastors is that they could get up in THEIR pulpit and tear to shreds anyone who disagrees with them or who dares to question their doctrines and authority. However if someone is to speak out against them (as they do very often about others…) then they cry like a babies that they are being “persecuted”. 🙄
I used to go to that church. In fact I grew up in that church. I never became member because of things I saw and did not like. Two years ago while I was in Jacksonville fl for college. Jonathan Crosby walked down the pews to my father and told him that my brother and I were to come back home and be sent to college near the church and that he was never to speak about the military again. I was informed that one of the young men in the church had thoughts about joining the military and that my father was the one to blame for it. So he was excommunicated. I grew up with these people and now that my father is excommunicated and (shortly my mother for non attendance). I can’t speak to any one of them. If you met them in public they will ignore you. No acknowledgement whatsoever. If someone had caught them speaking to us they will get in trouble. These people are what my father calls crosbietes. Whatever he says goes and it has always been like that. I have seen people excommunicated because they had different ideologies than his and the church. Families have been torn apart with little to no communication. Once your excommunicated your allowed to come back but until then your a nobody. Because of them I have come to realize that people who shout Jesus the loudest and highest you must be cautious and on your guard.
I’m so glad that you were able to see the abuse taking place in that church. I was involved in Ben Mott’s little cult for many years, but saw so much bad….that i finally got the strength and left that horrible place.
I saw excommunications, hypocrisies, self righteousness and spiritual abuse. They tear up families and build walls between other believers and just humans who don’t believe like they do, when they should be building bridges. Ben Mott would often complain about our “welfare state government” saying that charity should be the job of the churches, not the govt. Well if that is so I saw very little charity going out at the Detroit church…unless you are a sold out cult follower that is. Any charity was basically a business deal, you wash my hand, I’ll wash yours as when the Detroit church would give the Ecclesiastical Law Center a brown bag Read= CASH DONATION and supposedly that’s charity. When it’s really a business deal. If our society relied on those churches to do something Jesus would be very angry as they do NOTHING to help the poor, disenfranchised and hurting in this world. Again, the charity only goes to those who are drinking the koolaid in the cult.
Hang in there! Stick around and I wish you the best.
Thanks for posting. i’m trying to figure out who you r because I know we must know each other.
Hi again Ex-Member,
I was not a member of Crosby’s church, but of the Mott church. At one time in the past Crosby was in Mott’s church…then there was a disagreement which caused the pastor’s church to split and since two control freaks can never get along peacably (LOL) they went their separate ways and Crosby went on to start his own little fiefdom…I mean “church”.
I take it you were a member of Crosby’s church and not Mott’s, correct?
Yeah. The manipulation was unbiblical.
I told the guy who runs this site that if you email him via this website, he can give you my email address.
He is the son whose dad had the train store, 4 children, and a lovely wife,
I wonder what Crosby’s axe to grind with the military was. Did he think similar to Phelps in that the military was fighting for a doomed nation/going to hell etc.? Makes one wonder.
I think maybe it was because they would be missing a lot of Sundays if they were in the army or something. They cant miss Sundays.
I see. I have heard some sermons from JRC and that is right. They are real finnecky about attendance. Plus the military would take them away from the “true church”.
A lot of believers (now) honestly believe joining the military and killing people for your country is wrong. Like killing for Caesar. They are sincere. So many wars for so many bogus reasons. So many middle class or poor Americans join because they can’t get a decent job. Rich people kid’s don’t have to go. But if your family member dies in some foreign country under terrible circumstances, they give you a flag and play patriotic music.
Hi anonymous, I’ll also add, in case you didn’t know this, that Ben Mott ordained Jon or his brother Paul Crosby? They were both at one time, members of Ben Mott’s fiefdom..I mean-“church”.. In time, one of them (I do think it was Paul??) disagreed w/ some of Ben Mott’s teachings, which caused a huge church split & excommunications… Ben Mott doesn’t take someone who disagrees with him very well, as I notice most of these guys are that way. Seems like Crosby has carried on the tradition of control and fear well.
I was excommunicated because I no longer agreed w/ what was being taught. I just wanted out, but they wont let ANYONE leave on peaceable terms. Every single person who has left the Detroit church has been -church disciplined-. It’s just his way to punish those who dare to think for themselves or have a different interpretation of the bible. I’m so glad I can laugh about it now- considering how painful it was.
To me it’s just the same ole…”WE’VE got the True Church tm & those other lukewarm christians are deceived and not true christians! WE are the true believers…blah blah blah”- nonsense. It’s how they are able to guilt and control people that is so sad. I was dumped like a hot potato when I decided I had taken enough abuse in the Detroit church…so much for Christ’s love. People I thought were my friends dumped me like I was so much garbage. It was horrible. So I know what excommunication is like in those types of churches. They should be ashamed of themselves for that.
And I have no respect for those men because they hide…if they really believed it, how come they arent out in the world- like the Westboro Baptist church folks? They believe EXACTLY the same things….God’s hatred, etc. At least Fred Phelps had the balls to show the world what his bible religion was all about in it’s true colors. But B. Mott’s excommunication sermons are not available for the public to see…he does PR making sure that the outside world knows only what HE wants them to. When you join then you start to see behind the closed doors and how it REALLY is…and trust me, it aint about God or Jesus or God’s grace. It’s about a MAN and his fiefdom, family, proclivities and his take on what the bible says by picking and choosing the verses he needs to back his version of doctrine. While ignoring what’s in the bible that he doesn’t like or contradicts what he teaches. Yet they say all of those -other- christians just pick and choose when they are just as guilty of cherry picking their pet verses and ignoring the rest as well.
Anyhow, Just want you to know you are not alone. If you ever want to contact me to chat, perhaps you could contact the guy who runs this site and he would give you my email, though I don’t know if he would or not? Just sayin’.
“B. Mott’s excommunication sermons are not available for the public to see” – Not true. His excommunication sermons are listed on his site and i have listened to some and am thankful for this mans stance in these perilous times.
Cephas stated: “… His excommunication sermons are listed on his site …”
Cephas, are you referring to Ben Mott or John Crosby?Can you please supply a link to the excommunication sermons?
I think Cephas must be a current member, as well as Ad Hominem above.
LOL I notice it never happened. Probably because Mott doesn’t want people to know what REALLY goes on in his little cult. He’s a coward. I had more respect for Fred Phelps who had the balls to at least not hide exactly what he and his demented Westboro Baptist Church believes. Mott and his ilk are COWARDS
Oh and must add that even sermons that are available on his website could very well be EDITED versions. Hell, in the past when Ben Mott wanted to verbally abuse his flock, he would actually stop in the middle of a sermon, and tell the guy who was taping it to, “shut off the tape machine!!” then he’d rant on at the flock. LOL dayum….unbelievable the shit these guys get away with.
How could they discipline you if you just quit showing up???? You know, make no big deal out of it, just quit going. No arguing, just leave. Get away from the craziness and get whole again. Boy, religion is as corrupt as it was during Jesus’s time and before that. Christ was never a part of this perversion.
You have no idea what you are saying to be “thankful” he is doing what he is doing w/ church discipline. Emotionally abusing, punishing, shaming and shunning people who choose to leave his church to attend another is nothing to be thankful for! He may as well be the religious gestapo. Perhaps you like the idea living under a religious dictatorship? I certainly do not.
As far as the excommunication sermons being there, well they weren’t there when I checked last. The church discipline sermon I have is a DVD which says “For church membership ONLY”….in large red letters. Were you around during the times when he, in the middle of a sermon would direct the people who were taping his sermons to…”stop the tape machine?”
After the huge split in that church in the 90’s he told the men they could not have bible studies without him being present!
He lies & belches from his pulpit that anyone is FREE to leave his church, when he knows good and damn well how he will disparage those who leave with a harsh church discipline sermon to put fear in those who stick around, lest they get ideas of leaving. Anyone who dares to leave his church is told to “watch out for God’s fiery indignation!”
It’s ok. Im from South Africa and am not gonna draw any judgments on the man from what you might have experienced. im just interested in learning from the Pastor that’s all. His preaching in general is goooood. Very knowledgeable man. I’ll always be grateful to God for men that preach sound doctrine. Think im done with this thread now. Cheers!
NOT “might have experienced”…EXPERIENCED.
I just had to laugh with your preach “sound doctrine” comment. Ha ha ha! Sound doctrine my ass. He has his pet verses and ignores the rest!
Oh, btw Adolph Hitler was quite a persuasive speaker too.
Thank you cephas, that’s what I needed to hear. I was feeling sick and sad reading all of these comments because I have grown so much hearing Pastor Crosby explain scripture. Nothing wrong with following a man (1 Corinthians 11:1) as he follows the Lord. I’m too brutish to rightly divide on my own (Acts 8:31). All Glory and Honor to the Lord Jehovah!
Don’t listen to these people Chris listen to the word of God , you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free . These people wouldn’t agree with preaching unless it lined up with their deceitful heart , they are the blind leading the blind.
Last time I cheked the excommunication sermon from the Sunday following my leaving was not shared pubically. I left because I no longer agreed with some of their doctrine and knew I would lose my family and all my friends if I left, so I stayed for a long, long time just “being obedient” becaus that is what is demanded. Your not allowed to disagree there with anything or you will be put out for “rebellion.” You cannot judge a church by its website. You have to talk to former members in order to know what truly goes on behind the closed doors. You want to talk about adultery being rampant? It’s not just the pastor either.
I’m so glad you got out Ex-Member. I know how difficult that is! It takes a lot of courage & soul searching.
You know you will pay a price with shunning and you know you will be made out to be the evil one. but in reality you are the honest and truthful one with integrity.
You did the right thing!
I, like anonymous, used to be an attending member of this church and followed Pastor Crosby devotedly.
I will make no remarks about the doctrine preached, (though I probably could) I merely want to share my observations and experience having grown up in that body of believers.
There is a status quo if you will. There are things you should do and if you do not you stand out, like I did. Children are pressured to be married as soon as possible, with heavy emphasis on primarily considering only females already in the church. If you are not taking an exorbitant amount of classes (with the Pastors approval of career choice) you are considered lazy, and carnal. There is a lot of double talk and manipulation. I know the rhetoric, I used to spout it. I used to carry an enormous amount of guilt because I had disappointed the men who I viewed as ‘Godly’ though the way they treated their wives and children behind closed doors (sometimes not ) was anything but.
I truly believe that most of the people in that church are sincere, blinded, manipulated believers. Many of the young married couples are very messed up, but trapped out of fear. They fear that if they leave they are sinning. That is how I felt when I left. It took me a long time to reconcile with God and to realize I had done the right thing by taking myself out of that powerful cult-like atmosphere.
I end my rant with this simple question:
If you have all the truth in the world, but not true Godly love, what good is it?
When I was in the Detroit church a song kept running through my mind which was one I heard in the 70’s called “where is the love???” I asked myself that quite often during my years in that place.
I saw too much hurt, double speak as in saying one thing and seeing the opposite being done. High standards & expectations for some members and the same standards evidently didn’t apply to the pastor and his nearest and dearest.
I saw walls being built when bridges should have been. The preaching just filled you with guilt and fear. I remember telling one lady in Ben Mott’s church after an especially harsh sermon that “I didn’t need to feel beat every sunday!” she almost yelled at me….”we NEED to be beat!!” Oh so many things…I’ve tried to put them out of my mind, but at the same time I don’t want to forget lest I get sucked into something that bad again. So, they fooled me once, but as the Who says “we wont get fooled again!” 😉
We had the harshest of bible verses hurled at us for leaving that church. Because of the indoctrinations/brainwashings there was a part of me that was fearful, everyone told me I was wrong. Yet my rational and loving side said, god will not punish you for leaving something that you no longer agree with. So the false guilt and fear they put in my head over the years were hard to get cleaned out, but I have done it thankfully.
To this day nobody who is a member of the Detroit church has really inquired as to WHY we left. It’s like once we disagreed with Ben Mott’s teachings we were anathema. It hurts being shunned, but they showed me how many christian groups like theirs chew up and spit out their own. It’s despicable. And yes, i do think there are some sincere people in that church, unfortunately they have been filled with fear to ever dare to question, let alone LEAVE. I’ve read some of the latest outlines…one about “visiting other churches” and just wow, the true colors are shining through. You can just see the manipulation/guilt and control. Very sad to use those tactics to keep people…but they stay. 🙁 sad
When I was there we were not “encouraged” to marry within the church. We were absolutely required to. To marry somebody in any other church was apostasy, I am not joking.
Thank you for sharing. It helps to know that certainly we aren’t alone in what we are going through. So many have left those churches beaten and bruised and I notice not many do speak out about what happened to them, for whatever reason. I certainly understand. I’m finally just mentioning the name of the Detroit church. I knew I’d speak out eventually but when I left I was quite wounded and it was so hard to scrape my life off of the ground after what I experienced.
It was the worst experience of my life for sure. 🙁
the good thing is that I have been healing and getting my life back after what was stolen from me.
I know exactly what you mean about marrying. That is one of the reasons I left- (there were MANY) but I didn’t want to limit my children to just people in the church for spouses…I remember thinking that I didn’t care if my child fell in love with a Catholic, Lutheran or Baptist…as long as they LOVED each other. But I knew that would NEVER fly with Ben Mott. If my kids became members BM would then have a whole lot of influence on them and that I was not willing to do to my children. Matter of fact when one of my kids started talking about being baptised, I freaked out and thought “I do NOT want my child having that man as some authority figure over them…” then I had to ask the hard questions that if I did not want my own children to be in it, then why oh why did I allow MYSELF to be in that church? It was quite soul searching and what it all boiled down to was namely, FEAR. Oh those preachers are great at instilling fear and phobias into people’s heads. From there when I looked with honesty at the whole picture it was heart breaking, but i could no longer continue on with something where I disagreed with SO much.
OK that’s for another time tho…. LOL
Anyhow, I would love to get in contact w/ you.
Were you an ex-member of Mott’s church or Crosby’s? I’m trying to figure out how to get in touch w/ you because I’m a bit nervous about putting my email up here for all to see, as you mentioned and is evident from comments there are some Crosbyites and probably Mottites checking this out. 😉
I don’t have time right now to say more, but I’ll be back as soon as I can.
Take care & we’ll -talk- soon! 🙂
I will not put my e-mail either, but I sure would like to be in touch with you and the others here. I may know them and don’t realize it. In groups this small, everybody knows everybody. I wonder if the admin of the group can hook us up privately.
Elihu, how long have you been out of there for?
Elihu, I would not answer that question. The trolls from the churches who read this will know who you are. Unless you dont care.
I was thinking the same thing ExMember.
you are right, fear of sinning. knowing something is wrong, but not being able to believe that these people (pastors) could really be this deceived or crooked. giving your money to these people when your family needs it to pay bills. sickening.
I agree with ex – member in that we were not allowed to marry outside of the church. All the young people who married outsiders became members of the church before they were engaged. There are more unmarried women in that church than there is unmarried men. So the pickings is slim.You can marry an outsider after they have joined. I haven’t been back to that church since my mom and dad were excommunicated. It has left me more confused than ever. It makes me wonder if what the pastor was preaching was really the truth or was it something he used to manipulate people. I may have not been able to quote scripture frontwards and backwards like them but at least I treated everyone with kindness unlike how they have shown me and my family. My brother is severely messed up because of it. He and the pastor had gotten close the last few months before the pastor’s outrage towards my father. The betrayal has hurt him so much, he converted to Buddhism. He says he is not affected by it but I know it has. They are not as saintly as they make themselves appear. I am tired of being silent. The pastor is well versed and studies well. He is also a great spokesmen, sly, and crafty. I remember as a child I would try to say things that would try to impress him. People in that church seek his approval. Which allows him the power. I know that he also controls his children’s families. He controls were they go to school and when to have babies. Then there are the deeper secrets that have been swept under the rugs.
Reading this makes me worried for you. I had a boyfriend who walked away from a church like that.
I haven’t seen him in 30 years and what little I heard wasn’t good.
I am free, thank God.
what deeper secrets
Hi Anonymous, I understand what you are saying. In the cult church I left it seemed to me that everything was about the pastor and his family, his children, grandchildren and people bent over backwards to please him and his nearest and dearest.
It hit me over time…what the hell is this “church” all about? Because it didn’t seem to be about Jesus. this is a list of sermon titles by Pastor Ben Mott of the Detroit church:
“Bridle the tounge”
“Relating to your pastor”
“Authority of the Pastor”
“Perilous Psychology of Self-Esteem”
“Knowing when to keep silence”
Oh that’s just a sampling…. it’s all about the perceived position of authority of the “pastor”, his church and then the manipulations to make you docile and subservient.
Of course that is MY take on it, yes there are other sermons but IMHO the semons are geared to manipulate people. Again just my opinion.
Anonymous I believe that these guys do NOT preach the truth, but a doctrine that allows them unchallenged authority over people’s lives. IMHO
bottom line is: shut up and obey and if the pastor is happy with you, it means your in favor with God. If the pastor isn’t happy with you for whatever reason, it means you’ve displeased God and you must be harboring an unconfessed sin in your heart.
Ex-Member, that is exactly what it seemed to be about.
As I stated earlier, I do not care what Crosby, Eastland, or Edwards think. I know it is hard for all of us to deal with the pain and scars that church has left in our lives. I fully understand concerns for family members who are still among them. I full well know about the false charges brought up to the church when people leave, it happen to me. They added charges that I did not even know about or had a chance to defend myself. I even knew about things that went on behind closed doors. Their doctrine concerning Christ is straight out of the pit of hell. Crosby and the others know nothing about pastoral theology. They use counseling for the purpose to control people and not to help people. It is sad and I feel for everyone that unwittingly gets taken in by them. I am a Pastor that full understands the situation and I am praying for you all. There is help and God, the true God, is there for you.
What an incredible tragedy…I’m glad we that have left are stronger for it, even though we may not feel that way at times. Like I said before, it has taken me a while to get over it but…it has definitely shaped my life in good and bad ways. I don’t care if any of the spies know who I am…I’m sure they’ll enjoy wagging their tongues about these posts anyway. If any of you that have left want to get into contact with me (if you haven’t already) you can email me at email@example.com
My apologies, firstname.lastname@example.org rather.
Overall I enjoyed reading all of this. As an older person and one that has been part of this group, (CoG) I can testify that much is true, some is not. All of the churches mentioned above are very unbiblical concerning church government. These men lord over God’s people. They are trained to believe that when the “pastor” speaks, than God is speaking, regardless what he said~and to reject him, is to displayed a proud spirit, one that desires to be in his place! They also are taught that you are to believe every word which the pastor said AS TRUTH, and that you DO NOT have the gift to know truth apart from him. YET, if that is so, THEN how can one truly know IF he is a man of God? If indeed you cannot know truth apart from him telling you what is truth! This makes no sense, yet, that’s what false religion does to people~it robs them of the ability to THINK for themselves! A God given gift to his children. dwredbaker@bellsouth,net
I remember Ben Mott mentioning in a sermon how we are supposedly…ALL “priests and kings” as the bible says. Yet in REALITY we all knew who is the priest and king…the PASTOR.
Sermons like that where he will try to make the flock feel as if they have some kind of say, is really just PR. We weren’t “priests and kings” but blind followers of someone who has the gift of lecturing, er I mean “teaching”. and this supposed gift has not allowed him to Lord it over everyone in his church?
The DoubleSpeak was obvious, but swept under the rug. Just like when Ben Mott belched from his pulpit that “anyone is FREE to leave this church!!!” HaHaHaHa!!! Oh yeah right, if freedom to leave is being shunned, having the pastor slander you from his pulpit when you do with an excommunication sermon! Being church disciplined and being threatened with Divine Judgments for DARING to leave God’s TRUE church-tm. So his “free to leave” statement is nothing but using deception and giving outsiders the impression that members are FREE….when we know they live in fear. Fear that has been ingrained in their minds by all of the manipulative sermons and rants.
I never knew Ben personally, and had no desire to know him, knowing his overall beliefs, and his effeminate ways, was much more than I desire to be part of. What amazingly is that none of them (Ben, Tim and Conrad) will have anything to do with Jonathan, of which I partly understand. I am NOT here to put down people’s past, only saying that ALL OF THEM are control freaks, and believe, that they alone are the only true servants of God left. None of them understand NT priesthood of each and every believers, but believe that they themselves are God’s HIGH priest over YOU. Not to mention that they remove much of the NT exhortations from NT believers, and STAMPED them FULFILLED 70 A.D. These things concern me the most about them.
Hey Red, you are right with this:- “ALL OF THEM are control freaks, and believe, that they alone are the only true servants of God left. ” & definitely THIS -“but believe that they themselves are God’s HIGH priest over YOU.”
Also, I can forgive someone for messing up, not being perfect, the problem is these guys put themselves OVER others, as if somehow they are more spiritual. Therefore they should be held accountable since they supposedly are more spiritual than the average sheep. That’s a main problem I have. Why can’t they step down, admit they are freakin’ human and let people live their own lives, on their own terms.
Of course that will never happen because they NEED to control others. They need that narcissistic supply and so the system continues on….. 🙁 🙁
Then the Bereans should not have search the Scriptures to see if what they were being taught was true, according to Crosby’s teaching.
I remember a sermon about that passage–about the Bereans. He said they studied the scriptures to MAKE SURE or to CONFIRM what Paul said was true, not to SEE if it was. Subtle difference, but what he taught was that we were to make the Bible conform to what he (Crosby) said (to use the Bible to confirm his teaching), not to find out if what he said was true. Remember, we were never to sit in judgement, we were simply to obey. I was told by someone who left after me that Crosby doesnt even want anybody following along in their Bibles while hes preaching now. He just wants them to listen. Sounds like things are getting worse there. Its easier to use hypnosis tecniques if nobodys distracted by taking notes or flipping thru there bibles.
Shame on you!!!
for what Ann? Shame for WHAT? for having the balls and ovaries to question those narcissistic asshats? Shame goes on THEM for using God’s name to build their own little fiefdom and using God’s name to CONTROL people and their lives and take their hard earned $$$$. So F*ck your “shame on you”
and this supposed gift has not allowed him to Lord it over everyone in his church?- should have been NOW allowed him to Lord it over….
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
‘Narcissistic supply’ is a concept introduced into psychoanalytic theory by Otto Fenichel in 1938, to describe a type of admiration, interpersonal support or sustenance drawn by an individual from his or her environment and essential to their self-esteem.
The term is typically used in a negative sense, describing a pathological or excessive need for attention or admiration in codependents and the orally fixated, that does not take into account the feelings, opinions or preferences of other people.
If they want to talk about spiritually adultery, they should talk about idolatry. Exalting a man above God is spiritual adultery.
Those pastors know their flocks worship them. They are put on a pedestal and revered. Funny how they cut down the Catholics for “pope worship”, yet they are doing the exact same thing albeit on a much smaller scale.
LOL The hypocrisy is glaring.
My daughter overheard me talking about some of this and she said, “Sounds like the pastor is a non-Catholic pope.” I was proud of her for making such an observation.
Isn’t it great when our kids see it and we can validate that? My daughter has said similar things, but if we had stayed then she would have never said her TRUE thoughts…out loud.
It is wonderful to be out of that hell of a prison!
After reading through these messages from each of you…Some of whom I know intimately, and some of you I’ve only heard about, and/or may not know, I have to admit that I have never been so saddened by the state of man, yet so encouraged that what I believe is the truth. Because what is esteemed of men is an abomination to God, and the things which the world counts as nothing are typically the things of God. So you may think that you are winning by having others reply to your sick messages and “agree” with you, but I want each of you to know that the more you rail, the stronger my faith becomes. You will not win in the end. I will not argue your accusations against JRC or BM, I will not argue your accusations against the Bible, the KJV, scripture, inspiration from God, spelling critiques of messages when you can’t find anything legit to argue against, etc. etc. etc. The only thing that I am saying is that I pray to God Almighty that He will forgive you for spreading this filth against holy men of God who are trying to preach His Word as faithfully as a human can. I am not saying that I am part of either church, but I am saying, as John the Baptist preached, repent. Judgement day is coming and it will NOT be a pretty day for those who refuse to follow Christ’s commandments today. I am not perfect; you are not perfect; none of the men you have railed on are perfect, but God never told us to follow a perfect man, He said to follow His teachings, and to attend a local church preaching His commandments. I will not respond again so do not think I am hiding. I am simply not responding to anymore foolishness whether it’s sent by rebellious “ex-members” “anonymous” or others. Though I want each of the previous members of the church to know that I have never shunned any of you, and will never do so. I pray for you each night that the Lord will grant you repentance and save you according to His will. “For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;” Philemon 1:15. “There’s a great day coming…when the saints and the sinners shall be parted right and left….are you ready for that day to come?”
Don’t bother to pray for me, I don’t need them or want them. As far as “sick”, take a look in the mirror. To justify what those narcissistic “men of gawd” do- is sick. To sit and listen to them drivel on and on about nothing- but building their own fiefdom- is sick. To just accept THEIR version of bible religion, because wake up and take a look around, there are thousands of sects who believe the “bible” and none of them can agree on what it says is not wanting to face the truth. But hey, as you said, you don’t want conversation because you have “it”, the True Church-tm. You know what nobody else, outside of your little cultic groups knows. How speeaccial.
Me speaking the TRUTH of what happened to myself and family is NOT FILTH. Can you handle the truth? Have they so blinded you from seeing reality? I know how they work. They put FEAR in your head that will not enable you to think outside of their pathetic little world that they have constructed. If you really believe they speak “god’s truth” then have the guts to see the OTHER SIDE of the coin. Be a doubter- because if what they have is the truth it should be able to withstand scrutiny, should it not? Why are they so afraid of those of us who had the guts to leave that prison they put people in? They are terrified little wimps who keep sycophants around them to protect them from reality. Like Hotel California, “they are all just prisoners- of their own device…but you can never leave”. Oh but it doesn’t have to be that way. When people have the courage to see reality and not be blinded by the fear and lies of those guys, then you can free yourself of their vice grip. Good luck.
To Judgement Day: While you are praying for our repentance from “leaving truth,” we will pray for your repentance of idolatry.
I think these people are sick of being in the type of fear and bondage that these churches teach. False righteousness etc. It’s a drag and can take your whole life from you. All the money given to these churches that should have gone to pay bills or help your family. Yeah, people need to speak out about this to help others to get out.
✌️professing to be wise they became fools. Good for u judgement day. I like u don’t like to cast my pearls. Let him that is Without sin cast the first stone.for ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD
I know this was written about years ago, but I just came across it today and figured I would share some thoughts since I grew up in this “church”.
I’ll give a trigger warning before my comments out of respect for those who are currently working through abuse.
I grew up in this church from the age of one until I was 16. My name back then was Karen Watkins. I am now 36 and finally, for the most part, healthy after detoxing from years of the “teachings” I was raised from. The abuses my own family went through were at the encouragement of other church members and the twisted “teachings” of Jonathan R. Crosby (the pastor).
This church is a cult. Period. No matter how much they deny it or raise their children and grandchildren to believe otherwise. Fear, abuse, and isolation in the name of being “the chosen ones of God” was/is their ammo.
Some random info about them from my own experience…
As far as marriage goes, typically the father’s would “encourage” who the girls were to date/marry (it could only be a man within this “church”) and there was a dowry involved for some. To marry outside of this “church” was highly looked down on and there were consequences. Because according to the Church of Greenville (formerly known as The Church of Greenville before they split over JRC returning as Pastor after him having an affair), they are the one true church. The elect of God and no one should marry those who are not the elect of God.
According to them, there is no such thing as spousal rape and the husbands were encouraged in “Men’s Meetings” and sometimes through Sunday services (that were 2 hours long each – one in the morning, one in the evening) that if need be, they could discipline their wives the same as their children when the wife was not obeying her husband (and discipline for some of us kids who grew up in this was executed with the use of the wands on blinds or the wooden dowel rods you find in the craft store).
There would be monthly women’s meetings to teach women how to be more submissive, how to be a better wife (i.e. address your husband as “Lord” when he comes home from work and kneel down to take his shoes off for him), or how to be a wife in the future. When a woman was getting married, even the younger girls (13 and up) would attend the “women’s meeting” that was simply a lingerie shower. Awkward on so many levels for a 13 year old and it became a hyper-sexualized environment to the max.
Just as there was rampant physical and sexual abuse going down, there was equal parts of spiritual abuse as well.
After a Sunday morning service, my parents decided it was time to leave the “church”. After telling the members about us leaving, we were literally chased to our car by some of the tenure members yelling at us in attempts to convince us of what would be “sin” if we were to leave.
Those who have gotten out of this abusive cult, I have so much respect for because it takes courage to untether from the toxicity of this Jim Jones-like environment. Those who are still in it, especially the women and children, my heart aches for because JRC has done a fine job of tying religion to the condoning of the many abuses that go down. He’s done it so well that the women and children think everything taught is good and their feelings that say otherwise are just “sin” that needs to be worked through.
The Church of Greenville is not a church. They are not even the Independent Fundamentalists they claim to be.
I share all of this openly because there needs to be some light publicly placed on who exactly they are beyond their “teachings” about holidays and Bible versions. It goes much more deeper and dangerous than that.
Karen, thank you so much for your insight!! I really understand, though I was not raised in the Crosby group. Unfortunately I joined Ben Mott’s Detroit church cult. Crosby was a member of Ben Mott’s little cult for a few years, but Crosby and Mott had a huge split. after that Mott became more paranoid, disallowing the men to have bible studies without him present…same thing, Mott’s church is the True Churchtm. Nobody has ever left on good terms, Mott must “church discipline” excommunicate and shun those who has the balls to say “ENOUGH ABUSE”!! Mott told us that his “gawd” just might be so pissed at us for leaving the “True church”tm that gawd just might kill us or our children or curse us…the usual scare tactics used to keep people in line.
If you ever want to get in touch with me, please contact Darrel, he has my email. I would love to hear from you and share “stories” and get some validation. Nobody from the Mott cult has really spoken out…he has them scared shitless. It’s so very sad. Take Care
i just saw this response. THANK YOU so much for your insight Karen!! I understand completely, the control, the fear, the pressure, the being shunned…so much abuse and such a toxic environment. I hope you are doing well and wish you the best.
I wish someone would send u my e mail and u write me karen
That’s interesting, nothing she said was un-biblical. The more suspicious topics, like rape and ‘sexual abuse’, were not specified, and thus subjective.
God and Jesus, by definition are cult leaders. Pastors are just men, and if any man follow a pastor outside of the Word of Christ, as if he were Christ, he has perverted himself and his family. Yet, nothing of what you have mentioned seems to be the case. In fact, I would expect (occasionally) members to leave a church that attempts to preach the entire Word.
I don’t see anywhere on there site where they claim that they are the one true church. In fact, many times he’s referenced that many scattered throughout the world are teaching truth.
“The elect of God and no one should marry those who are not the elect of God” If you don’t believe this doctrine fine, but millions do, for good reason. Not just that church.
Very true observationThe inconsistency of what they preachings of Jonathan Crosby which is truly in practical godliness. .and the smear campaign here , doesn’t add up…
Unless the whole Church is brain washed to such an extent , Crosbys preaching
The man seems to have a great zeal for God and all his sermons are backed by scripture…and as scripture says by one or two witnesses something is established…so it would really take a huge cognitive dissonance to really stay in a church that doesn’t seem to follow what it preaches.
As for Church discipline and such…I would think it would be prudent that ..once people grasp holiness and make a commitment to God to live holy lives…then those who are liberal and would want to have their cake and eat it would , which probably is carnal Christians who still desire the things of the world, and reprobates this are the unsaved trying to mingle with sheep, and finding them naive etc..which from the comments are reading here would not be far fetched.
Either The Church of greenville Is a satanic cult or a Church of saints where worldly believers are finding hard to be accomodated.
The cognitive dissonance The church would be creating would only stand if the church Is a satanic cult …which doesn’t seem so.
Though this is an old thread, I’m thankful to have seen it. In my studies of Scripture and doctrine I came across the Church of Greenville through the website and their stuff was admittedly compelling. I’m a Primitive Baptist and just knowing how they bash us I can see how much said here is true. Crosby had an hour and a half sermon back in 1986 bashing us PBs for several ridiculous reasons. While I agree with simple services, Calvinistic doctrine, and some of their other convictions, I do not agree with the way they mistreat brethren, treat them like garbage if they disobey, and promote their own dogma as “truth” with weak Scriptural foundation. Just thought I’d clarify that. I’m glad I came across this site because I thought of possibly visiting them. Now I don’t want a thing to do with them knowing their true colors. I know what it’s like to be around abusive people who by the art of persuasion and manipulation can make you believe anything and cause you to doubt yourself when you start to see that something ain’t right. I feel sympathy with everyone here that dealt with that in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. May the Lord give you all comfort and be with you as you heal.
Things have changed some it seems. I have heard that now their trying to kiss up to the Primitive Baptists maybe in hopes of not seeming as cultic as they really are Or maybe they just need fresh blood because the young people can’t marry outside the church and so they have to pull new people in
That’s quite possible. The anti-Primitive Baptist rant was almost 30 years ago now and in their FAQ they state that they “appreciate many” of our teachings though they still refer to that document. In my research I’ve found there’s several of these “church of” groups similar to the Church of Greenville. The ones who are associated with Mott wash feet (like PBs) while Crosbys does not. Seems like Crosbys a rogue from everyone though I won’t slander anyone. Again I’m glad I found this thread so I could know the truth about these groups. But at the same time I wanted to state that while I have strong convictions based on the Bible I don’t force it on anyone nor do I manipulate and inflict fear on others who do not see eye to eye with me. I know the stock and trade of sociopaths growing up with one and I see it in these guys preaching. Christ died for his beloved people which are MANY and would not inflict pain on his sheep the way these men have. Prayers for everyone here. I know how hard it is to heal.
IMHO those guys, Mott, Crosby ( a protegee of Mott) and Jarrell are text book case narcissists. They LOVE to be adored, looked up to and of course look DOWN on others. and they hate, absolutely hate to be honestly questioned. They’ve set up their own little fiefdoms (churches? more like cults) where they have put themselves up in a position of authority, with NO transparency and NO checks and balances…as other churches have assistant pastors, presbyteries and councils to answer to . They have set up a system where they can say and do whatever the hell they want & if you DARE to question..be prepared for their wrath. After all I’ve been through with Mott & his sycophants, i’ll never darken the door of one of those churches ever again. Freedom is sweet, but the damage is still there….and they still keep hurting and abusing people in the name of their sick demented bible interpretations. Small men they are and cowards too. They day Ben Mott puts up UNEDITED versions of ALL of his ex-communication sermons, so that outsiders can see & hear and know what REALLY goes on in that hell hole, i might think he has an ounce of integrity. LOL of course we know that wont happen. My hope is people get out, but of course that’s really hard to do when they tell you that their gawd just might KILL you or your children for daring to leave the “true church”=their little cult. I have hope that people will wake up and get the hell out of those places. Until then i hope some will wake up out of the stupor of fear that Mott, Crosby and Jarrell have those people under.
BTW, to some it may seem I am “slandering”, but no, I am not. I am expressing my experience with those people. Ben Mott and Jarrell have no problem ranting on & tearing up people from their bully pulpit and don’t apologize for the damage they do. It works both way, they dish it out, they should be able to take it.
Your anger is understandable. I’ve been angry at my narcissist too. You almost have to be as a defense because they use anger as a weapon to weaken conscience driven folks, aka most people.
Thanks Anonymous. I do have anger, the damage Ben Mott and his demented bible interpretations did to me and my family…well…affected me and my whole life in a very negative way. Damage and years that can’t be gotten back. However, I am happy to say that I am FREE of him and his little fiefdom=cult. I am free to be me, not a cookie cutter shell of person that he wants people to act like. I know so many people in there are freaking miserable, but they stay because of FEAR. Mott puts fear in them that if they dare question or God forbid, actually get the courage to LEAVE, that his gawd would kill them, curse them, take away their talents…kill their kids, etc. It is quite an abusive situation, like an abusive lover who says “I love you…but if you dare to think for yourself or leave me, I’ll kill you”. NO THANKS I realized that if God was anything like those people, I’m done with that god, and I have been. Thing is, it is still upsetting that people are still being hurt by these narcissists. I saw a recent sermon where Ben Mott “church disciplined/excommunicated” a couple apparently…and the sermon=read brainwashing- for the day was titled, “HELL”. LOL, nothing like scaring the sheep into being completely submissive to him and fear makes people not think 🙁 . Personally I think he needs to get the shit kicked out of him… LOL but he’s not worth going to jail for. LOL >.<
It sounds as though Ad Hominem ,Judgment day and JRC are all the same person. When did this church in S.C. get started anyway and did it split too because of this JRC guy?
I grieve for you in that you had to deal with that all in the name of Jesus Christ. I know some of the reasons why preachers preach this way. I’ve been there and used to think like them when I was younger and more susceptible. But the more I thought about it, as numerous people have already said, pastors instilling fear into people to get their message across is instilling worship of the PASTOR not Christ. This is something that though I cherish the truth, I want to stray away from this approach. The world has enough problems to weigh people down, no one should have to go to a place to hear about Jesus Christ that does the same thing. The Lord does not give a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. Prayers for your continual healing.
Thank you Anonymous. I am doing pretty good considering all my family and I have been put through by that man and his religious system. I will NEVER allow anyone to treat me or my family that way. I’ll never darken the doors of any church like that ever again.
Is ad hominem and judgment day the same as JRC?
I don’t see any manipulative or mind controlling in this website. Actually, most of the messages here are well researched and studied. Of all the commentaries and explanations I have read, this is the most fulfilling explanations. The way it is presented here is very vivid, as if it is the most beautiful painting you have ever seen. As you can see, almost if not all of the sermons here is biblical and revolve only inside the Bible even the examples are from the Bible itself. He seldom uses an example outside the Bible either a thing or a person. If you just read or listen to any topic in this website, you will learn and understand a lot of things and it is presented unequivocally.
Praising the person is normal for the people especially of his kind. He is so talented and gifted in delivering and exposing the word of God in the Bible terms. If he is praised by other people, he deserved it.
So how long have you been writing this website?
LOL!! Crosby, Mott, etc.. are manipulative cult leaders who think they’ve got *it* namely -God’s church- and all others are deceived. They cherry pick the verses out of the bible to fit their worldview, agenda, & their particular doctrinal stance while ignoring the other verses that don’t line up with what they want to believe. Anyone involved in that should get out asap. It’s a toxic controlling environment where these guys have unlimited power, there is no accountability, there is no transparency…they are little Popes who have created their own fiefdoms where they reign. FEAR is the number one tool used in their arsenal, manipulation and false guilt are also tools they use to manipulate people and get them to do what they want them to…then when the shit hits the fan, they deny they have anything to do with this situation. LOL I am so glad to be out of that bullshit. If there is a god, that is NOT his or her religion and those cowards certainly are no men of any god I’d ever worship.
I said it. From the sermons on his site which is what he preaches..the church of greenville would either be a satanic cult where people are brainwashed, or a church of true saints, though fallen, where worldly Christians or true reprobates that want their cake and eat it…cannot find foot and will not fellowship with those who have made a commitment to follow Christ.
Look at the topics here : Celebrating Christmas …why would you want this to be a tradition when it’s origins are pagan, have you no reverence to God…I am not saying that it cannot be turned to a day to honor and worship the true God..
So if a Church want nothing to do with it..then that is a godly thing.
Marry who you want , some saying I don’t care if my Child falls in love with a Catholic…scipturally that’s a yoke …its a No No.
Wives Honoring husbands, of course western liberalism and feminism that acquiesce to ungodly women would be against such .
Conclusion the point of contention in this so called spiritually abused people. Is not waniting to follow God as he has stipulated in his words
I would say good riddance. Let the door not hit you wee the good Lord split ya.
Right on brother
Like all false teachers, Crosby and Mott, both mix in heretical doctrines with good true Bible doctrines. I know because I was a member of the SC church from December 1980 to spring of 1996, that is right over 15 years. It took me until 2005 to get rid of the last poison that was in my spirit. I went to seminary and there I was finally set free of the most deadly poison of their teaching, the denial of eternal Sonship. It was not from the teaching, so much, of the Seminary, as it was my own time spent in studying doctrinal history and rightly dividing the Scriptures. I do not believe this is the place where I can take the time to go into all the “whys and what for’s”. That I have done on my blog and on Facebook. If we are putting our faith in a “Jesus” that is really not in the Scriptures, then we are putting our faith in an idol and may not even realize it. However, I know that many of the people who have left the SC church do not want to look at doctrinal issues. I do understand, because it took me years to strain out the poison. I however, as a rightly ordained minister of the gospel, am responsible to warn people of the danger of false teachers and their belief systems. False teachers can make their poison taste good while it is killing you. Paul the apostle often admitted that false apostles used finer speech and fairer words than he did at the time. I just want to encourage those who have left the SC church to look at the doctrine and examine it closely to sift out the poison. Beware of slick speech and presentations.
God bless you all and may he heal your wounded soul.
I think just as it happened to David, power does corrupt..and that also explains why none is righteous, some of this men, unlike Paul who had subjected himself to rigorous spiritual training,saying he would not want to preach to others and him be disqualified..but we should put no trust and hope in men…that is biblical
There is nothing heretical about the website…thesermons are backed by clear biblical references, he is one of the most sound biblical preachers for this age…I also should not just believe anything that Is claimed against the man as there is no evidence and on the net we can’t really see you…
What I fail to understand is how After this
sermons and his position would be so contradicting that he doesn’t preach what he teaches, he would have been called out long time ago.
Anyone who doesn’t agree with the sermons on letgodbetrue cannot be a Truly born again Christian, so it would be doubtful to say they are not actually enemies of God as Satan their father who is the accuser of the brethren.
Don’t listen to them, Just go to detroitchurch.org search sermons for the fallen minister from June 9 2002 and listen for your self. This from the horses mouth, Ben Mott the pastor who ordain Crosby and then revoked it and then disavowed him.
All of those guys are driven by power and lording it over others, that’s their game. As far as the falling out of Ben Mott & Crosby, it was the usual fighting over words & doctrines. They’re both control freaks, so naturally they’re not going to get a long. LOL It’s sad that this religion wastes it’s time on arguing over words, when there is pain & suffering in this world & so much in the world to get done, and they argue over dogma?! Guys like Mott & Crosby are using god’s name to get a following to themselves and of course people’s $$$ and devotion. I’m a Humanist now and after what I’ve been thru with those people I want nothing to do with bible religion. If they are anything like their supposed God, I’ll be happy to be with the crowd in Hell. LOL http://www.evilbible.com/
reverendc Marshall.You call yourself reverend,does that mean you are a roman catholic?
Well said pastor Watkins.
Who cares, thanks I will get to it and see
I am not a member of the Church . I live in Africa , and I thank my good for the Jonathan Crosby because through his site …I have come to better understanding of his word and I’m pressing on
Paul was wary of members who were not living a godly life in the Churches he started. Asking why they had not thrown those people out. But then asking that after repentance that the brethren should be welcomed in the Church . .since we are not ignorant of the devils tactics…the devils tactic would be the man’s mistakes which he has repented of are continually used to judge him.
I said seeing the things that some of the ex members are complaining about are things that are against what any true Christian having studied the word. and by the help of the holy spirit would have thrown out.
Which then sounds like this ex members are carnal believers, or reprobates. Goats that could not find a place in Gods true Church.
Jesus said if they called him Beelzebub ,since a teacher is no lower than his students, then Christians will face them.
I said this: either the Church of greenville is a satanic cult or a true Church of sanctified but fallen Chriafians.
The more you get closer to God the more the lines disappear.
So since Green Ville preachers true biblical Christianity I have listened to almost every doctrine uplifted and there Is no contradictions.
So I say true born again believers with the spirit cannot be so deceived when they are heading the word of God and extorted to live by it, by someone who is so contradicting to it.
Right on brother
Amen. I too am a South African and am thankful for Churches and Pastors like Crosby and Mott.
Wow… This web site was referred to me by someone I recently met… I know, or know of, all the pastors mentioned in the copious comments… Lots of anger, gossip, back biting and self-righteous comments accusing others of self-righteousness from the 12, or so, people who comment here… Sour grapes people… Instead of wasting your time one-upping each other with slanderous accusations against these pastors, why don’t you try redeeming the time while it is still day…
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
Hi, I live in Singapore, I too have had encounter with The Crosbys. But I can tell you, it was the worse Christian experience I have had in my entire life. A FAR worser experience compared to all the other christian denominations I have ever had in my entire Christian life!
Only judge the man by this very verse in 1: Co 2:4. Not with enticing words of man’s wisdom? His sermon is full of his own brand of rhetorics and his demonstration theoreof.
My verdict: be very careful who you are associating with. Especially someone whom you barely know through the internet. You might really regret it.