So, SO, SO very true! This had to be one of the biggest shocks I’ve had since leaving fundamentalism and visiting other denominations.
I still suffer from this. Especially with Catholicism, which I intellectually accept as Christian, but I still like emotionally withdraw with severa ceremonial things. It’s not easy to get over.
Perfect. Of course, it’s all Scripture – from the opening acclamation to the benediction, but that seems to get lost with some pastors.
Answer: “Well he expounded on the first half of Revelation 9:8, preaching against Rock Music and CCM, as well as how sinful it is for man to have hair long enough to touch their ears or their collars, why women should wear their hair at least shoulder length, why dancing is of the devil and why democrats are satan’s tool to bring socialism to America. And why we need to be in every service and giving sacrificially if we want to see gawd bless us, move in our services (because if any of the body is missing then gawd can’t move as he wants) and if we are going to be used of gawd, and see our church on fire for gawd.
I’ll bet your preacher can’t get half that much out of the 63 verses you read!”
I still love these little stick fellas! I like the liturgical one apparently flailing his one arm for no apparent reason! LOVE the fundy stick figures! 🙂
(((((((((((((@Don))))))))))))
There are no words to describe my glee! Excellent comment!
@Don
That is 90% of the IFB sermons that I have heard. My question is how did you sum up in 2 minutes what takes an IFB preacher 50 minutes to yell?
I visited Tim Keller’s church this weekend, and I made that exact observation. As we scooted out the aisle to leave, I said, “Isn’t it funny how we were taught that other denominations don’t believe the same. I didn’t hear a single thing that didn’t align with what we were taught doctrinally.”
Do anecdotes count?
what’s pastor stick doing associating with this unregenerate fellow? maybe he’s trying to win his soul.
I’ve been jealous of Catholics ever since becoming Orthodox. We just don’t inspire the same paranoid loathing in fundies that Catholics do. I take comfort in the fact that if they knew we existed, they’d despise us too.
85% of all Sunday school lessons were about what’s wrong with every other denomination. how they missed the 2nd largest group of Christians is beyond me. maybe there just wasn’t time between lessons about how Mormons get busy on the altar at their temple and how Catholics are only pro-life because they need more tithers.
Oh so very true. I’ve been in so many preaching services where the person quotes one verse and 1 hour later finishes his “sermon.” I’ve been at other places that while they have a scripture reading that is supposed to relate to the sermon that often suffices for the entire sermon that follows without really even referencing back to that scripture or any other Biblical passage…yea I’m thinking of chapels.
Talk about shock the first time I went to Mass with my wife’s family….It wasn’t 2 1/2 hours longand no one yelled at me. Weird….
Once the accusation is proven to be false, the accuser’s integrety suffers. You would think that Fundy pastors who say such things would be more cautious.
@ Scorpio After 43 years of that type of preaching I have a catalog of sermons based on verses or parts of verses… sort of the Cliff Notes version for prooftext preaching. 🙂
To clarify…”After sitting under, and having to listen to, 43 years of that type preaching…”
I’ll never forget when my fundy inlaws were gushing about their “conservative” church to my husband’s accompanist at Indiana U. He was an Episcopalian. He responded, “Oh yes. I agree. I find the liturgy a real comfort.”
They just sat their for several minutes with their jaws on their laps. They were talking about singing “Victory in Jesus” to a boom-cha-ka-boom-cha-ka piano accompaniment. He was talking about the _Book of Common Prayer_. Nothing left to say.
yes!!!! my mom visited an Orthodox service with me and was just amazed at the scripture embedded in the liturgy!
When I have to visit my family and sit under that tripe, it makes me want to stand up and scream. However, I resist the temptation by going to sleep or reading my Bible.
@Reader Mo, I’ll see what I can do to plant some anti-orthodox rage in some of my fundy fam/friends! Maybe can start a ground swell of anti-orthodoxy withing fundamentalism. No reason they should be disregarded in the smear campaigns!
Reader Mo, I had a calvinist acquaintance once describe Orthodoxy to someone as “popery without the Pope” which he explained was the worst, most insiduous, dangerous kind of popery. I was quite gratified.
Hilarious–and totally true. It’s interesting to approach this problem from the opposite site and read books (like Karl Keating’s excellent Catholicism and Fundamentalism) that try to dispel fundy rumors. The authors invariably sound frustrated by the end of the book–there are so many rumors from so many sources, arguing against them is like fighting the hydra.
And fundy ignorance doesn’t just extend to the high Church–I’ve been told multiple times that Methodist churches have beer on tap at their church meals.
And if I had to guess why fundies aren’t as up-in-arms about Orthodox Christianity as they are about Catholicism, I’d say it’s probably a matter of contact. They haven’t met enough Orthodox believers to add them to the enemies list.
The Americanization of Orthodoxy (for lack of a better term) is relatively recent. They haven’t been “competition” with the conservative Protestant machine. Until now. . . .
Consider the following myths:
Catholics don’t believe Peter was married.
Presbyterians don’t believe in evangelism.
Methodists believe you lose your salvation when you sin.
Anglicans don’t love America.
Lutherans are really Catholics.
Bible churches are embarrassed by the Baptist label. (That’s probably true.)
What good is reading the verses in the liturgy if you don’t have a man up front to explain them to you? Allowing the congregation to read, reason, and pray for themselves may lead the people astray from their loyalty to the pastor. Or at least some questions he doesn’t know the answer to.
Awesome cartoon. I only wish you had worked in that liturgy is “dead, vain repetitions”. Yeah, sure, the Living Word is dead and vain. *sigh*
This guy gets in a grand total of one verse before beating his people over the head with some of the strangest preferences I have ever heard in my life or that ever came out of the swamps of Louisiana. You’ll get that last part if you decide to listen to it.
This always bugged me when I heard this in “sermons.” Granted, it was usually some other Protestant Evangelical denomination, but it still annoyed me to hear some of my closest friends ripped on.
@Nate. Well said! I couldn’t have put it better myself my friend!
@Ron Bean.
“Bible churches are embarrassed by the Baptist label. (That’s probably true.)”
I’m actually quite sure this is true and not myth. Like, 99%. The church I’m currently half-involved with/attending is a “Bible Church.” And man. Are they ever 100% IFB! They just hide it with Calvinism and claim that they are along the Reformed lines. Which they’re not.
@Reader Mo.
“I take comfort in the fact that if they knew we existed, they’d despise us too.”
Crazy fact. I never knew about Orthodox Christians when I was deep in fundyland. Then I saw someones comment on a site about the “original church” and was intrigued. Watched some stuff on Youtube (great content I know…), and felt a huge burst of fresh air! So I’m pretty sure that if Fundies knew of Orthodoxy that they’d loathe it just as much as Catholicism.
And Camille brings an excellent point. It probably will soon be “competition” to American Protestantism someday soon.
Great comments. It is true that Fundies have no sense of the Bible-based liturgy in Catholic and other denominations. How I wish that they would go to one of these churches and experience the Bible they way it is supposed to be read and understood – in the heart of the Church.
I love the way the readings from the Old Testament, Psalms, New Testament and Gospel all line up with one another.
For example the readings from Sunday, June 27, 2010 give one plenty of thought and expository material:
1 Kings 19: 16b, 19-21: Elijah calls Elisha to succeed him as prophet. He finds Elisha in the field, ploughing with his oxen, calls him, and Elisha answered the call. He also asks Elijah “Please let me kiss my father and mother goodbye, and I will follow you”.
Elijah allows him to go and say goodbye.
Gospel reading, Luke 9:51-62
Jesus calls men to follow him. “And to anther he said, “Follow me.” But he replied, “Lord, let me go first and bury my father.” Be he answered him, “Let the dead bury their dead. But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God”. And another said, “I will follow you Lord, but first let me say farewell to my family at home.” To him Jesus said, “No one who sets a hand to the plow and looks to what was left behind is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Jordan – “I’ve been told multiple times that Methodist churches have beer on tap at their church meals.”
If that was ture, I might be Methodist now 🙂 I’m Lutheran, and although we can’t serve beer (laws and all that), it was notable that in a church auction, the most intense competition was over itmes that included beer…. Our pastor is a good home brewer too.
The problem is that there isnt enough explanation. The people do not understand the readings they are hearing.
biting my tongue
biting my tongue
🙂
I do believe that our friend @Don has quite a few sermons stashed in his library that our fundy friend @Emily would just LOVE. She’d probably end up at the altar on the first verse & be using the tissues. 1 verse even better no verses and just hours of ranting. 🙂
Sorry, my tongue didn’t get bit….
When I was at HAC there would be times when the speaker would read one verse, pray, and then speak an hour on something completely unrelated. Like how wicked wives were the reason behind 90% of men who backslid or left their pastorate. Ooh. And how women who wore skirts that just came mid-knee caused the males to think wicked thoughts. Funny I never remember reading those great truths in the Bible.
Okay, obviously, a sermon that quotes “abstain from all appearance of evil” and goes on to cite the three points why that verse proves you shouldn’t “drink, dance, read the NIV, wear pants, swim, or chew”. . well, that’s a problem.
On the other hand, I do have many good friends from other churches or denominations who may get a lot of Scripture, but really do not understand it, and admit this to me.
I’d say perhaps a bit of balance is needed here. . .stick to the text. . .use A LOT of the text. . .but also explain what it really says.
@RJW
True that!
“Exegesis? We don’t need no stinkin’ exegesis! Vámonos!” -The Fundy Gang of Preacher Boys (unfortunately they were edited out of the hiring of crooks and con-men scene in the movie Blazing Saddles.)
“. . .use A LOT of the text. . .but also explain what it really says.”
So it “really says” whatever the pastor says?
@Reader Mo: my rabidly anti-Catholic fundy mother regards Orthodox as almost worse than Catholics, ever since the time she attended a Greek Orthodox funeral. She wasn’t a big fan of icons or liturgy. So, yes, there ARE fundies who loathe the Orthodox. Does that make you feel better? 😉
@Gabriel –
You could have warned us about the song at the beginning. Not cool dude 🙂
By the way, there IS something worse than hearing a “pastor” read one verse and then proceed to “preach” on something totally unrelated. Try hearing a “sermon” “preached” where not even one Bible verse is read, quoted, or otherwise alluded to. And yes, I’m talking about conservative IFB churches and chapels.
@Gabriel –
I apologize for my previous statement, and rescind it. The song is a small, nay, a tiny, a teeny-tiny price to pay for that wonderful, gift of a sermon that keeps on giving. I truly hope that Keith Gomez is still the pastor, because in the words of Liz from 30Rock, “I want to go.” When I do go there, and I will, I’m assuming that he will challenge me to a fight from the “sacred platform.”
@John
He ain’t intimidated of you cause he’s seen something way scarier than you in the swamps of Louisiana. He may however allow the guardian of the sacred platform that carries his standard into battle challenge you to a duel. Of course hearing their wednesday night music may induce strong desires for suicide by gouging out your eye with a tea-spoon.
@Darrell
You need to do a specific post on the above-linked message complete with the accompanying song. Hilarious!!
@Gabriel. That sermon is epic! The song made me want to run my head through a brick wall… make it stop, make it stop..
I can’t believe that this passes for preaching…
He even offers to let people leave and go to Willow Creek, if hell had frozen over and I was there, I would have taken him up on his offer.
Lord, save us from weirdos like this…
Thanks a lot. I just wasted 40 minutes of this vapor called my life in listening to Gomez. AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!! His comment after the song (?) had nothing to do with the song but that’s to be expected from someone who only listens to himself. This bully just begs for someone to call his bluff. I’ve sat under preaching like this from wind-filled bullies hiding in the “cowards castle'”and am resolved to never sit there and take it silently again.
Watched his wedding video too. (I told you I’d wasted my day.) It appears his wedding coordinator relaxed her standards and let his new bride be get her size 8 body in a size 4 dress. He didn’t seem to mind t the time.
so what does everyone think about the 7 sacraments?
I think the more Sacraments the better. I like the idea of regional Sacraments. How about biscuits and gravy instead of bread and wine? 😉
@Ron –
“I just wasted 40 minutes of this vapor called my life in listening to Gomez.”
How can comedic gold be a waste? At every turn I thought, “He can’t top that.” But of course, he did. I only wish that there was a video of it.
Comments are closed.
A silly blog dedicated to Independent Fundamental Baptists, their standards, their beliefs, and their craziness.
Oooh burn!
So, SO, SO very true! This had to be one of the biggest shocks I’ve had since leaving fundamentalism and visiting other denominations.
I still suffer from this. Especially with Catholicism, which I intellectually accept as Christian, but I still like emotionally withdraw with severa ceremonial things. It’s not easy to get over.
Perfect. Of course, it’s all Scripture – from the opening acclamation to the benediction, but that seems to get lost with some pastors.
Answer: “Well he expounded on the first half of Revelation 9:8, preaching against Rock Music and CCM, as well as how sinful it is for man to have hair long enough to touch their ears or their collars, why women should wear their hair at least shoulder length, why dancing is of the devil and why democrats are satan’s tool to bring socialism to America. And why we need to be in every service and giving sacrificially if we want to see gawd bless us, move in our services (because if any of the body is missing then gawd can’t move as he wants) and if we are going to be used of gawd, and see our church on fire for gawd.
I’ll bet your preacher can’t get half that much out of the 63 verses you read!”
I still love these little stick fellas! I like the liturgical one apparently flailing his one arm for no apparent reason! LOVE the fundy stick figures! 🙂
(((((((((((((@Don))))))))))))
There are no words to describe my glee! Excellent comment!
@Don
That is 90% of the IFB sermons that I have heard. My question is how did you sum up in 2 minutes what takes an IFB preacher 50 minutes to yell?
I visited Tim Keller’s church this weekend, and I made that exact observation. As we scooted out the aisle to leave, I said, “Isn’t it funny how we were taught that other denominations don’t believe the same. I didn’t hear a single thing that didn’t align with what we were taught doctrinally.”
Do anecdotes count?
what’s pastor stick doing associating with this unregenerate fellow? maybe he’s trying to win his soul.
I’ve been jealous of Catholics ever since becoming Orthodox. We just don’t inspire the same paranoid loathing in fundies that Catholics do. I take comfort in the fact that if they knew we existed, they’d despise us too.
85% of all Sunday school lessons were about what’s wrong with every other denomination. how they missed the 2nd largest group of Christians is beyond me. maybe there just wasn’t time between lessons about how Mormons get busy on the altar at their temple and how Catholics are only pro-life because they need more tithers.
Oh so very true. I’ve been in so many preaching services where the person quotes one verse and 1 hour later finishes his “sermon.” I’ve been at other places that while they have a scripture reading that is supposed to relate to the sermon that often suffices for the entire sermon that follows without really even referencing back to that scripture or any other Biblical passage…yea I’m thinking of chapels.
Talk about shock the first time I went to Mass with my wife’s family….It wasn’t 2 1/2 hours longand no one yelled at me. Weird….
Once the accusation is proven to be false, the accuser’s integrety suffers. You would think that Fundy pastors who say such things would be more cautious.
@ Scorpio After 43 years of that type of preaching I have a catalog of sermons based on verses or parts of verses… sort of the Cliff Notes version for prooftext preaching. 🙂
To clarify…”After sitting under, and having to listen to, 43 years of that type preaching…”
I’ll never forget when my fundy inlaws were gushing about their “conservative” church to my husband’s accompanist at Indiana U. He was an Episcopalian. He responded, “Oh yes. I agree. I find the liturgy a real comfort.”
They just sat their for several minutes with their jaws on their laps. They were talking about singing “Victory in Jesus” to a boom-cha-ka-boom-cha-ka piano accompaniment. He was talking about the _Book of Common Prayer_. Nothing left to say.
yes!!!! my mom visited an Orthodox service with me and was just amazed at the scripture embedded in the liturgy!
When I have to visit my family and sit under that tripe, it makes me want to stand up and scream. However, I resist the temptation by going to sleep or reading my Bible.
@Reader Mo, I’ll see what I can do to plant some anti-orthodox rage in some of my fundy fam/friends! Maybe can start a ground swell of anti-orthodoxy withing fundamentalism. No reason they should be disregarded in the smear campaigns!
Reader Mo, I had a calvinist acquaintance once describe Orthodoxy to someone as “popery without the Pope” which he explained was the worst, most insiduous, dangerous kind of popery. I was quite gratified.
Hilarious–and totally true. It’s interesting to approach this problem from the opposite site and read books (like Karl Keating’s excellent Catholicism and Fundamentalism) that try to dispel fundy rumors. The authors invariably sound frustrated by the end of the book–there are so many rumors from so many sources, arguing against them is like fighting the hydra.
And fundy ignorance doesn’t just extend to the high Church–I’ve been told multiple times that Methodist churches have beer on tap at their church meals.
And if I had to guess why fundies aren’t as up-in-arms about Orthodox Christianity as they are about Catholicism, I’d say it’s probably a matter of contact. They haven’t met enough Orthodox believers to add them to the enemies list.
The Americanization of Orthodoxy (for lack of a better term) is relatively recent. They haven’t been “competition” with the conservative Protestant machine. Until now. . . .
Consider the following myths:
Catholics don’t believe Peter was married.
Presbyterians don’t believe in evangelism.
Methodists believe you lose your salvation when you sin.
Anglicans don’t love America.
Lutherans are really Catholics.
Bible churches are embarrassed by the Baptist label. (That’s probably true.)
What good is reading the verses in the liturgy if you don’t have a man up front to explain them to you? Allowing the congregation to read, reason, and pray for themselves may lead the people astray from their loyalty to the pastor. Or at least some questions he doesn’t know the answer to.
Awesome cartoon. I only wish you had worked in that liturgy is “dead, vain repetitions”. Yeah, sure, the Living Word is dead and vain. *sigh*
Here is a fun one if you have 4o minutes to waste: http://northwestbbc.com/sermonStream.aspx?SermonID=5391
This guy gets in a grand total of one verse before beating his people over the head with some of the strangest preferences I have ever heard in my life or that ever came out of the swamps of Louisiana. You’ll get that last part if you decide to listen to it.
This always bugged me when I heard this in “sermons.” Granted, it was usually some other Protestant Evangelical denomination, but it still annoyed me to hear some of my closest friends ripped on.
@Nate. Well said! I couldn’t have put it better myself my friend!
@Ron Bean.
“Bible churches are embarrassed by the Baptist label. (That’s probably true.)”
I’m actually quite sure this is true and not myth. Like, 99%. The church I’m currently half-involved with/attending is a “Bible Church.” And man. Are they ever 100% IFB! They just hide it with Calvinism and claim that they are along the Reformed lines. Which they’re not.
@Reader Mo.
“I take comfort in the fact that if they knew we existed, they’d despise us too.”
Crazy fact. I never knew about Orthodox Christians when I was deep in fundyland. Then I saw someones comment on a site about the “original church” and was intrigued. Watched some stuff on Youtube (great content I know…), and felt a huge burst of fresh air! So I’m pretty sure that if Fundies knew of Orthodoxy that they’d loathe it just as much as Catholicism.
And Camille brings an excellent point. It probably will soon be “competition” to American Protestantism someday soon.
Great comments. It is true that Fundies have no sense of the Bible-based liturgy in Catholic and other denominations. How I wish that they would go to one of these churches and experience the Bible they way it is supposed to be read and understood – in the heart of the Church.
I love the way the readings from the Old Testament, Psalms, New Testament and Gospel all line up with one another.
For example the readings from Sunday, June 27, 2010 give one plenty of thought and expository material:
1 Kings 19: 16b, 19-21: Elijah calls Elisha to succeed him as prophet. He finds Elisha in the field, ploughing with his oxen, calls him, and Elisha answered the call. He also asks Elijah “Please let me kiss my father and mother goodbye, and I will follow you”.
Elijah allows him to go and say goodbye.
Gospel reading, Luke 9:51-62
Jesus calls men to follow him. “And to anther he said, “Follow me.” But he replied, “Lord, let me go first and bury my father.” Be he answered him, “Let the dead bury their dead. But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God”. And another said, “I will follow you Lord, but first let me say farewell to my family at home.” To him Jesus said, “No one who sets a hand to the plow and looks to what was left behind is fit for the kingdom of God.”
Jordan – “I’ve been told multiple times that Methodist churches have beer on tap at their church meals.”
If that was ture, I might be Methodist now 🙂 I’m Lutheran, and although we can’t serve beer (laws and all that), it was notable that in a church auction, the most intense competition was over itmes that included beer…. Our pastor is a good home brewer too.
The problem is that there isnt enough explanation. The people do not understand the readings they are hearing.
biting my tongue
🙂
I do believe that our friend @Don has quite a few sermons stashed in his library that our fundy friend @Emily would just LOVE. She’d probably end up at the altar on the first verse & be using the tissues. 1 verse even better no verses and just hours of ranting. 🙂
Sorry, my tongue didn’t get bit….
When I was at HAC there would be times when the speaker would read one verse, pray, and then speak an hour on something completely unrelated. Like how wicked wives were the reason behind 90% of men who backslid or left their pastorate. Ooh. And how women who wore skirts that just came mid-knee caused the males to think wicked thoughts. Funny I never remember reading those great truths in the Bible.
Okay, obviously, a sermon that quotes “abstain from all appearance of evil” and goes on to cite the three points why that verse proves you shouldn’t “drink, dance, read the NIV, wear pants, swim, or chew”. . well, that’s a problem.
On the other hand, I do have many good friends from other churches or denominations who may get a lot of Scripture, but really do not understand it, and admit this to me.
I’d say perhaps a bit of balance is needed here. . .stick to the text. . .use A LOT of the text. . .but also explain what it really says.
@RJW
True that!
“Exegesis? We don’t need no stinkin’ exegesis! Vámonos!” -The Fundy Gang of Preacher Boys (unfortunately they were edited out of the hiring of crooks and con-men scene in the movie Blazing Saddles.)
“. . .use A LOT of the text. . .but also explain what it really says.”
So it “really says” whatever the pastor says?
@Reader Mo: my rabidly anti-Catholic fundy mother regards Orthodox as almost worse than Catholics, ever since the time she attended a Greek Orthodox funeral. She wasn’t a big fan of icons or liturgy. So, yes, there ARE fundies who loathe the Orthodox. Does that make you feel better? 😉
@Gabriel –
You could have warned us about the song at the beginning. Not cool dude 🙂
By the way, there IS something worse than hearing a “pastor” read one verse and then proceed to “preach” on something totally unrelated. Try hearing a “sermon” “preached” where not even one Bible verse is read, quoted, or otherwise alluded to. And yes, I’m talking about conservative IFB churches and chapels.
@Gabriel –
I apologize for my previous statement, and rescind it. The song is a small, nay, a tiny, a teeny-tiny price to pay for that wonderful, gift of a sermon that keeps on giving. I truly hope that Keith Gomez is still the pastor, because in the words of Liz from 30Rock, “I want to go.” When I do go there, and I will, I’m assuming that he will challenge me to a fight from the “sacred platform.”
@John
He ain’t intimidated of you cause he’s seen something way scarier than you in the swamps of Louisiana. He may however allow the guardian of the sacred platform that carries his standard into battle challenge you to a duel. Of course hearing their wednesday night music may induce strong desires for suicide by gouging out your eye with a tea-spoon.
@Darrell
You need to do a specific post on the above-linked message complete with the accompanying song. Hilarious!!
@Gabriel. That sermon is epic! The song made me want to run my head through a brick wall… make it stop, make it stop..
I can’t believe that this passes for preaching…
He even offers to let people leave and go to Willow Creek, if hell had frozen over and I was there, I would have taken him up on his offer.
Lord, save us from weirdos like this…
Thanks a lot. I just wasted 40 minutes of this vapor called my life in listening to Gomez. AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!! His comment after the song (?) had nothing to do with the song but that’s to be expected from someone who only listens to himself. This bully just begs for someone to call his bluff. I’ve sat under preaching like this from wind-filled bullies hiding in the “cowards castle'”and am resolved to never sit there and take it silently again.
Watched his wedding video too. (I told you I’d wasted my day.) It appears his wedding coordinator relaxed her standards and let his new bride be get her size 8 body in a size 4 dress. He didn’t seem to mind t the time.
so what does everyone think about the 7 sacraments?
I think the more Sacraments the better. I like the idea of regional Sacraments. How about biscuits and gravy instead of bread and wine? 😉
@Ron –
“I just wasted 40 minutes of this vapor called my life in listening to Gomez.”
How can comedic gold be a waste? At every turn I thought, “He can’t top that.” But of course, he did. I only wish that there was a video of it.