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**diachenko** · 04-07-2011, 10:28 PM

(04-07-2011 10:23 PM)Darrell Wrote:
Quote: At what point does the prospective missionary say, "This isn't what I'm supposed to be doing," as opposed to "The Lord is testing me"??

About the time they change mission fields from "Tokyo" to "Tallahassee" or they decide that God has "shut the door" and opened up a nice spot in an assistant pastor position in their home church while waiting for the head pastor to retire.

Or if you're connected you can land a nice mission board VP spot...

I want to laugh, but I saw that happen a few too many times. God is pretty vague and tricky with His Callings... Of course, if you believe that God has not only His Will, but His Perfect Will, as I've heard some of the funides talk about, then that leaves a fair amount of leeway to make it up for yourself.

Kate · 04-08-2011, 12:53 AM

(04-07-2011 10:23 PM)Darrell Wrote: [quote] At what point does the prospective missionary say, "This isn't what I'm supposed to be doing," as opposed to "The Lord is testing me"??

Yes! My question exactly. I've posted before about the IFB missionaries we met upon arrival here in England. This isn't deputation, as such, but rather furlough. Similar. They are stateside on "furlough" right now...err...would that rather be "funding raising" trip. It's been a 16 month furlough. They are in their mid 60s and have been in the UK for 30 years starting churches for US military. They have had two shots at getting the one going near this particular base to no avail. They lost a few supporting churches back home because of the economy in the States and had to go home to run the circuit yet again. When do you say "God's just not in this"? But here they are at retirement age and no nest egg, no job, and dependant on money from other people. I know God can take care of His own, but, I gotta feel for these folks...even if I don't particularly want them back here.

Joseph · 04-08-2011, 06:49 AM

(04-08-2011 12:53 AM)Kate Wrote: [quote='Darrell' pid='14474' dateline='1302232986']

Quote: At what point does the prospective missionary say, "This isn't what I'm supposed to be doing," as opposed to "The Lord is testing me"??
They are in their mid 60s and have been in the UK for 30 years starting churches for US military. They have had two shots at getting the one going near this particular base to no avail.

I know God can take care of His own, but, I gotta feel for these folks...even if I don't particularly want them back here.

This is something I continually hear and wonder about myself as well. I have many questions about individual decisions that have been made by so many missionaries and wannabe missionaries.

I've got to ask though, what the heck is someone doing starting churches in England for the US military for? There are already paid chaplains, and if that's not good enough, I'm sure service men are capable of forming their own groups if they so desire. If a church isn't going, then doesn't that mean you are working on a pet project? Hate to sound harsh, but I think a lot of "missionaries" are working on pet projects.

I've seen hometown guys sent back to hometown as missionaries for their newly acquired brand as preacher boys from college. Churches are everywhere, but not their exact brand. I've heard of this same sort of thing going on in other countries. People doing all kinds of nice stuff while being paid to live on the dole. It's frustrating that people feel as if their pet projects are all worthy of full time support, and that is what makes the whole deputation thing worthless to me. It's all about salesmanship and who gets the money.

Hidden in all the tons of crap is really worthwhile stuff and really neat people doing necessary jobs for Christ in many places. If I had to put a number on it though, I'd guess that 80% of the paid missionaries are fluff. Sad fact, I know. So deputation being what it is is still limited by the folly of humans. It doesn't effectively weed out everything from what I've seen. If that's an effective weeding out procedure, I'd hate to see what started out to go do something somewhere.

***Darrell*** · 04-08-2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:There are already paid chaplains

It's a gamble on whether or not you're going to get one who's even remotely within the realm of orthodoxy. There are some great ones. There are some...not so great ones.

captain_solo · 04-08-2011, 08:02 AM

In some countries, its not as simple as "move there and get a job" Some countries are only open to missionaries who bring income with them.
I know a missionary well who even refers to himself as a moochanary - actually a couple of them, and they are the furthest thing from it. As for the weeding out, I would believe that if I hadn't met some who made it through the process and are weeds.

***Darrell*** · 04-08-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:Some countries are only open to missionaries who bring income with them.

Very much so.

And others simply have no jobs available.

Joseph · 04-08-2011, 08:12 AM

(04-08-2011 06:56 AM)Darrell Wrote: It's a gamble on whether or not you're going to get one who's even remotely within the realm of orthodoxy. There are some great ones. There are some...not so great ones.

Sure, I know this as well as any having spent a year in Iraq with only Army chaplains available. I wouldn't say they are all ideal pastors, but I also don't think military folks are going to significantly suffer in their spiritual lives for lack of a missionary run church. That's not something I can afford to help pay for.

(04-08-2011 08:02 AM)captain_solo Wrote: In some countries, its not as simple as "move there and get a job" Some countries are only open to missionaries who bring income with them.

This also is understood and I may be a bit off on my estimate of 80% fluff depending on the location. Some locations are going to be close to 100%, others less so. But the idea of deputation alone being an effective weeding out tool is in error.

***Darrell*** · 04-08-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:the idea of deputation alone being an effective weeding out tool is in error.

I'm not sure that anybody suggested that it was. Smile

Joseph · 04-08-2011, 08:26 AM

(04-07-2011 10:09 PM)Darrell Wrote: Deputation is engineered to weed out the weak. The thought process is that if a person can't make it 'living on faith' through deputation that they're not good missionary material.

Now I see it, you were being facetious! I got you..

Kate · 04-08-2011, 09:36 AM

(04-08-2011 06:49 AM)Joseph Wrote:
(04-08-2011 12:53 AM)Kate Wrote: They are in their mid 60s and have been in the UK for 30 years starting churches for US military. They have had two shots at getting the one going near this particular base to no avail.

I know God can take care of His own, but, I gotta feel for these folks...even if I don't particularly want them back here.

This is something I continually hear and wonder about myself as well. I have many questions about individual decisions that have been made by so many missionaries and wannabe missionaries.

I've got to ask though, what the heck is someone doing starting churches in England for the US military for? There are already paid chaplains, and if that's not good enough, I'm sure service men are capable of forming their own groups if they so desire. If a church isn't going, then doesn't that mean you are working on a pet project? Hate to sound harsh, but I think a lot of "missionaries" are working on pet projects.

When the missionaries left, my husband and I didn't at first even consider trying the chapel at the base. The chaplaincy is very open. The Protestant chaplain could be just about anyone who is Protestant. We didn't figure it was worth trying. However, that is where we are now and enjoy both the Protestant chaplains and are plugged in serving in various ways. I have been told that the previous chaplain was a mess and the chapel was, too. This from the music coordinator who has been there 16 years.

We have attended one quite large church started by these missionaries years ago near the big base here in the UK. It's a thriving church. They have an actual pastor who was once in the air force there and went to Bible college. The difference between the church and the chapel is that chapel only has Sunday morning worship. The church can offer Sunday school, AWANA perhaps, Sunday evening and mid-week services. Some folks like those. It's a bit of America. That church does a great job of rallying around the families left behind when the military spouse has gone down range. So does the chapel, of course, but this church is apparently a solid community.

Now that I have discovered that our chapel here is doing a great job of being faithful to the Word, and that's tough in the military, I wonder if another church IS needed. I don't think so. I'm not God and don't know what He has in mind, but it seems to me to lack of success on the previous 2 attempts to get a church going outside the fence, so to speak, is because no one needs it.