Love Wins by Rob Bell

[chris1000bc]

I just finished listening to Rob Bell's book "Love Wins". I have not read all of the reviews yet...so I don't know what I am supposed to think about it yet.

The Good:
I think there is much in his book that evangelicals and even fundies would agree with. If they heard their pastor say many of the things Rob Bell says in this book, they would say, "Amen" or at least think it.

At the end of the book, Bell gives his acknowledgments and guide for further reading. He mentions C. S. Lewis's book "The Great Divorce" which seems to influence his thinking on heaven and hell and Tim Keller's book "The Prodigal God" which influences his thinking on the prodigal son story in Luke 15. If you have read Lewis or read/listened to Keller on either of these issues, you probably would have been like me, and thought I have heard this or something very-like this somewhere before. By the way, Bell mentions at the beginning of the book that his ideas are generally not original to him, and again, at the end of the book he gives a book and author for further reading on many of his ideas. I think the "further reading" list was a good idea.


The Bad:

On Hell...
As mentioned already, it seems as though Bell takes a Lewis-like view of hell where people may be able to repeatedly make trips to the outskirts of heaven, and decide if they want to go in or not. Many people will chose hell in this life, and will continue to choose hell in the next, but it seems like they may be able at some point to not choose hell even if some of them never will. I think his view of man's freedom is part of the foundation of this view. God has made us so free that we are able to choose heaven or hell whenever we want to.

I don't think this is what the Scriptures teach. Yes, I think there is a sense in which people choose hell by not choosing Christ. By the way, John Piper has written recently on this here probably largely in response to Bell. But as Piper says in the end people are not choosing to jump into a lake of fire or whatever you define hell to be. The Bible says that they will be hurled into hell. At some point, people do not get to choose anymore. I don't see how Bell or anyone gets around this unless they say that Revelation 20 isn't really part of Scripture and we don't have to worry about what it says.

On Salvation:
Salvation in Bell's mind seems to work like this: God is everyone's Father. Jesus died for everyone. You have to opt out of heaven, not opt in. So everyone starts out forgiven, and they just need to accept that. The problem is that many people choose not to, and instead choose hell.

Again, I just don't think his view on this is Biblical. I think texts like John 3:17 teach that those who are not believing in Christ currently are under the wrath and condemnation of God. Bell seems to think that many Christians wrongly believe this: God forgives you during this life, and then if you didn't trust him as soon as you die, he changes his stance toward you to one of wrath and judgment. I think the Biblical view is that God loves his enemies, but if you die an enemy of God, you will be judged as one. The Bible teaches that you start out an enemy of God, and that you need to be reconciled to him. It doesn't teach that you start out reconciled to him, but as soon as you begin to make choices, you may choose hell instead of him.

On Who Gets In:
Bell also seems to think that there will be people who will go to heaven who have never heard of Christ. Maybe some of these people will be in other religions or in no religion, but they have lived in a way and been the kind of person that God wants to partner with so they will go to heaven.

In real estate, when someone wants to make an offer on a house or land, they often ask the seller's agent, "What do you think the owner will accept?" The agent is supposed to respond to that question with, "I know they will take what they listed the house or land at." I think as ambassadors of Christ we should answer the same way when asked who will go to heaven. God will decide who he will accept into heaven, but as far as he has revealed to me in his word, the people he is accepting into heaven are the ones who have trusted in his Son Jesus Christ.

In Summary
I think Bell says a lot of good and true things. Still, I think the way he understands God is sometimes less dependent on how God has revealed himself to be in his word, and more dependent on how Bell thinks God should be. It seems as though at times Bell will not let Scripture persuade him that God is different than the way Bell inherently knows God to be. In short, Bell's presuppositions sometimes control the way he sees God. I listened to the book, and it took 3.41 hours of listening. I didn't listen to it in one setting and I did go over a few short sections again to try to better understand him.

[chris1000bc]

Also, I wanted to add two reviews (both less than positive) for Bell's book. I just read through each of them, and they both state better than I can problems with the book. But my review is shorter.

The first is by Denny Burk. It is shorter than the second one, and he renames each of the chapters so you kind of know what he thinks about each of them rather quickly.

The second is by Kevin DeYoung. He is thorough and makes many good points.

Also, Tooktheredpill linked to this positive review by Richard Mouw, and I thought it would be good to put it here as well.

[Darrell]

Is it bad that I really can't make myself care what Rob Bell said or didn't say? Like...not even a teeny bit.

Maybe if I read all these reviews will change that. Maybe not.

[chris1000bc]

(03-17-2011 03:17 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  Oh and also, I wouldn't characterize the aforementioned C.S. Lewis material as his views on heaven and hell. All those were things written fiction.

I agree that they were meant as fiction, and I have not read everything Lewis has said on hell or heaven. So I may be missing some of his view. Still, I have read "The Great Divorce" and it seems like he is putting forward in the book the way he thinks heaven and hell will be or at least how heaven and hell could be.

[chris1000bc]

(03-17-2011 03:21 PM)Darrell Wrote:  Is it bad that I really can't make myself care what Rob Bell said or didn't say? Like...not even a teeny bit.

Maybe if I read all these reviews will change that. Maybe not.

I offered to let my brother listen to the book, and he said the same sort of thing. He doesn't care and he doesn't know anyone close to him who does (apparently I am not close to him). That's fine with me.

The view I don't like is that we shouldn't read this book because it will not help us spiritually as if those are the only types of book we should read. Someone I talked to about the book the other day gave this view. So we shouldn't read classics or interesting books unless they somehow make us closer to Christ or make our joy in him greater. Sure, these people say that, but then they watch tv/movies that you know are not bringing them closer to Christ or making their joy in him greater. My point is not that we should not watch tv/movies or read the classics, but that God has given us all kinds of things to enjoy. This would include for some of us Rob Bell's book and for some of us not Rob Bell's book.

[Darrell]

Quote:The view I don't like is that we shouldn't read this book because it will not help us spiritually as if those are the only types of book we should read.

No I definitely don't hold to that view. I read all kinds of things that I disagree with or that I think are outright wrong.

But they're by authors who I actually care to read because they give me some sense that what they're saying is important even if I disagree. With Rob Bell I just don't get that impression. At all.

[TomK]

I get my copy in a day or two. Amazon is dragging their feet. I love Rob's stuff, even though we disagree constantly.

I agree with Donb123 when you said people go to Hell for sinning. That concept gets so glossed over by CSL quotes and fancy verbiage.

[TomK]

I finished and it was pretty weak.

Rob's "God's love will eventually win over everybody" leaves me feeling the same way as atheism and Calvinism. If the grave is the end or God already knows or if we all end up in Heaven eventually, then what is the point? Why give God a nod and a wink?

I do like Rob Bell, I've read all his books, watched his videos, seen him on tour, and been to Mars Hill. I really enjoyed Velvet Elves and enjoyed disagreeing along the way. I love the way he communicates and connects with people. But scripture and history were so twisted to fit into Rob's particular theology that it wasn't even fun to disagree. The endless stories and "this means that" and
One
Word
Sentences
just got annoying. I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts.

[exIFB]

(03-18-2011 09:53 PM)TomK Wrote:  I agree with Donb123 when you said people go to Hell for sinning. That concept gets so glossed over by CSL quotes and fancy verbiage.

I think a better way to put it is people go to hell for being unrighteous, as in, it is who they are. Sins are just the fruit of unrighteousness. Hence, Jesus came to become our sin for us and to give us His righteousness. Peace, Joy, Love are the fruits of righteousness. It's not a matter of sin, it's a matter of righteousness. If we went to hell for sinning, then we'd all still be going there. Semantics I know, but I think it's an important difference.

[TomK]

(03-25-2011 03:32 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  A really good article from a Methodist-

http://methodistthinker.com/2011/03/25/t...ed-gospel/

That was a good article. I've read a lot of reviews and responses to Love Wins and that was by far the best.