Rob Bell, MSNBC Interview: Love Wins

[chris1000bc]

(03-17-2011 10:28 AM)Ricardo Wrote:  They don't care about Rob Bell saying "God Wins." They want to make sure their congregations know that THEIR views win over Rob Bell's emergent, universalist, commie views.

I don't think Rob Bell saying "God Wins" is necessarily enough. What does he mean by "God Wins"? Is God really winning very much in this sense? More importantly, when Rob Bell says "God Wins" is he saying the same thing the Scriptures are when they talk about God winning in some sense? When the negative reviewers compare answers with Bell, they seem to find that his answers to these questions are lacking or misguided.

I agree that there are people out there who try to raise themselves up by pushing someone else down. But I think a lot of the reviewers genuinely disagree with Bell and genuinely believe his conclusions are dangerous. I am not saying that they are correct in all of their conclusions, but that many of them are sincerely trying to protect their flock (or those in their sphere of influence), and not just trying to beat up Bell.

[chris1000bc]

(03-16-2011 01:29 AM)Tooktheredpill Wrote:  Here's probably the best review I've read: http://www.netbloghost.com/mouw/

Thanks for the link. Now that I have read the book, I can look at the reviews.

I think this reviewer is doing a good job of representing Bell. I think it's a good review.

[UptownHippie]

"Bell asks questions better than he answers them."

I think this is a very true statement ... I will even go so far as to say that Bell's greatest contribution to Christianity is that he gets Christians talking. He asks a lot of questions (and then does some super-savvy marketing) and then prompts people to talk, discuss, pray, argue, read the Bible, get together, and hash it out.

[Ricardo]

What bugs me the most is this whole issue of "sincerely trying to protect their flock (or those in their sphere of influence), and not just trying to beat up Bell. "

This is just like the whole "controversy" about the DaVinci Code. I swear it has to be the publishing houses who stir this up to get more sales.

And the same thing with the preachers. A great way of NOT preaching scripture and talk instead about a current event, is to beat up on Rob Bell. It is also a great way of practicing your proof-texting skills with his book.

Rob Bell asks way more questions than he answers. As it should be. As it is with most of us. Rob Bell is preaching from a church of sinners, of questioners. Meanwhile his opposition have declared themselves a THE arbiters of Orthodoxy from the church of Saints who will not hear any new Revelation from God, especially if uttered from the lips of Rob Bell.

There is much circular reasoning here: I will chose which books to put in the canon. I will chose which manuscripts to use in order to reconstruct those books to my liking. I will decide how to translate them. I will decide how to interpret them. THEN, I will declare my opinion as GOD'S OWN.

Meanwhile, "the church," which is the one to proclaim the good news of Jesus is all over the place. Thousands of denominations.

Rather than admit that it is possible for an all-powerful God to speak through any and all of these imperfect churches, we go through this BS of fighting about which church is GOD's church. (Mine, of course.)

[Ricardo]

This may be my personal reaction to the extreme religious abuse I suffered in the fundamentalist church I grew up in... But I've learned to RUN whenever some person says: "I've got THE TRUTH, and nobody but me has it.

Of course I'm being relativist! As are each one of us. There is only one TRUTH: mine!

Not sure I want to continue here our conversation we've een having in the inerrant thread. If you and I read the same chapter and verse, you are satisfied and I have questions, does that mean that I'm being relativistic?

It is very convenient to first declare books as inerrant, and a translation, and an interpretation, and then to accuse anyone who does not agree of being a relativist.

There are many books written by solid Christian scholars regarding Hell. We are dealing with specific Hebrew and Greek words, which like any other words their definitions and meanings shift through the ages. Are we talking about the center of Earth? about the Jerusalem City Dump?

Meanwhile the REAL point of the book, God's love, Love wins, is being ignored in efforts to squash Bell's "heretic" views.

When it comes to Rob Bell's book, how are we to apply Paul's "Check everything out, keep the good stuff?"

Sometimes Truth exists. Sometimes we (me included) are so eager to tear apart the exegesis that we fail to hear what God may be trying to tell us through His imperfect servants. Somehow, the existence of thousands of denominations has failed to give us a sense of humility, of understanding that good Christians, after much prayer and fasting, still, to this day continue disagreeing on what Truth is.

Quite frankly, I can take Rob Bell only in small dosis. His Nooma video series weighing in at 10 minutes each are close to my limit. And yet, I find God has a pearl of wisdom for me in just about every one of those videos.

[chris1000bc]

(03-22-2011 08:15 AM)Ricardo Wrote:  What bugs me the most is this whole issue of "sincerely trying to protect their flock (or those in their sphere of influence), and not just trying to beat up Bell. "

This is just like the whole "controversy" about the DaVinci Code. I swear it has to be the publishing houses who stir this up to get more sales.

I think we agree on some things. I don't think there needs to be ten books all telling us that the "DaVinci Code" belongs in the fiction section instead of the history section. But a few blog posts or an article informing people of issues that a person had with a book is not too much.

(03-22-2011 08:15 AM)Ricardo Wrote:  And the same thing with the preachers. A great way of NOT preaching scripture and talk instead about a current event, is to beat up on Rob Bell. It is also a great way of practicing your proof-texting skills with his book.

I would much rather hear a sermon on a text than on Rob Bell. I would say that one would not need to proof-text with Bell. Many Christians (especially IFBers) would have a problem with his stated views on hell, how salvation works, and on who goes to heaven in the end. You don't have to misrepresent him.

It seems to displease you that many people are focusing on what they disagree with Bell on instead of what they agree with him on. Would you be more satisfied with these people if they mentioned the good as well as the bad? Or do you want them to completely ignore what they consider bad, and just focus on the good? If I say "God wins" or "Love wins," does it no longer matter what I say before or after that as long as I say somewhere in there that "Love wins"?

[Ricardo]

Christiany is a little looney. The Emperor Justinian waited until his deathbed to declare himself a Christian and repent of his sins, because he didn't believe you could be a ruler and a Christian at the same time. (I'm beginning to see the wisdom in that...) But, it puts a bit of magical thinking where I believe there should be none of that.

This whole issue of, if the last words out of my mouth are "God damned..." after a lifetime of a truly christian life, do I go to hell instead of to heaven? Or the opposite, if the serial killer find Jesus just before they throw the switch on the electric chair... The sense of Justice gets bent way out of shape.

What if I knowingly reject all things "Jesus" during my lifetime, KNOWING that I can get a free pass if at the last minute I utter the magic words? (I know, I know, "and I really mean them...")

My uncle's last gift of love to his wife, when -because of his ilness- he could no longer talk, move, and was in constant pain, was to conciously starve himself to death. The whole family was called in to his death bed, where there was celebration of his life and much healing of family feuds, before he died a few days later.

And yet, the amount of judgement by churchgoers who were not involved, and did not know him or his family is legion.

Part of my problemis that for me God is about today. Is my life today worth living? The Lord is my Shepperd, I lack nothing. Today. Not when the Lord comes again. NOW.

What we are preaching is how to live NOW. what Jesus can do for us now.

[chris1000bc]

(03-22-2011 10:46 PM)Ricardo Wrote:  Christiany is a little looney.

Using my one signature against me? Brilliant. Now I have to agree with whatever you say.