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co_heir · 01-10-2011, 12:14 PM

[/quote] Now you need to hear the Arminian side. Wink

[/quote]

I got that growing up. I don't think either side gets it right completely.

steviusthedevious · 01-10-2011, 10:55 PM

(01-10-2011 12:14 PM)co_heir Wrote:
Quote: Now you need to hear the Arminian side.

I got that growing up. I don't think either side gets it right completely.

you're correct. which is why i'm a biblicist; i know for sure i have it completely right. i'm above the calvinist/armenian debacle Tongue

in interest of full disclosure, i actually do fall more in line with calvin, but i dislike the YRR movement

co_heir · 01-11-2011, 10:37 AM

[/quote] you're correct. which is why i'm a biblicist; i know for sure i have it completely right. i'm above the calvinist/armenian debacle Tongue

in interest of full disclosure, i actually do fall more in line with calvin, but i dislike the YRR movement
[/quote]

The YRRs are fundies with cooler music and not quite as many rules.

Tony Mel · 01-11-2011, 11:16 AM

(01-10-2011 10:55 PM)steviusthedevious Wrote:
(01-10-2011 12:14 PM)co_heir Wrote:
Quote: Now you need to hear the Arminian side.

I got that growing up. I don't think either side gets it right completely.

you're correct. which is why i'm a biblicist; i know for sure i have it completely right. i'm above the calvinist/armenian debacle

in interest of full disclosure, i actually do fall more in line with calvin, but i dislike the YRR movement

I believe much of what they preach, but I don't go with religious fads (eg. MacArthur-Piper-Washer-I'll Be Honest Only If You Are, etc...).

steviusthedevious · 01-25-2011, 03:34 AM

(01-11-2011 10:37 AM)co_heir Wrote: The YRRs are fundies with cooler music and not quite as many rules.

i get a bad vibe from driscoll who (i think?) falls into this camp. i appreciate his stance on doctrine, for the most part, but his application and method of teaching scares me. it conjures up my past, just a little.

exIFB · 01-25-2011, 04:40 AM

Oh wow... YRR are fundies with more rules, except their rules are loose on music and fashion, and their judgmental attitude reeks of fundamentalism.

Tony Mel, I am pretty sure, gauging by reading your blog, that many in the YRR crowd would call you "antinomian" - especially the ones you listed as fads Tongue

GB

LutheranEmily · 01-25-2011, 05:51 PM

Lutheranism is sort of in between calvinism and armenianism.

You can't come to God on your own, but you are free to leave.

Smile

exIFB · (This post was last modified: 01-25-2011 06:26 PM by exIFB.)

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IFB No More · (This post was last modified: 01-26-2011 04:08 AM by IFB No More.)

(01-25-2011 04:40 AM)exIFB Wrote: Oh wow... YRR are fundies with more rules, except their rules are loose on music and fashion, and their judgmental attitude reeks of fundamentalism.

Tony Mel, I am pretty sure, gauging by reading your blog, that many in the YRR crowd would call you "antinomian" - especially the ones you listed as fads

GB

Speaking as a "reformed" fellow I find Mohler and MacArthur to be too conservative for me.
Piper and Dever would be acceptable but I find their cautiously accepting attitude towards fundies somewhat disturbing.
I think Tim Keller's the most open of the New Calvinists and I like his ideas but now even some New Calvinist folks are slamming his ideas - esp. his rejection of literal 6-day creationism.
Driscoll's cool and hip, but not when he rants against yoga, Avatar, and certainly NOT when he shouts at congregations in sermons.
The Washer-Conway and the "I'll be honest" crowd reminds me of IFBs in reformed garb. Bonus fundy points if the fellow also quotes Ravenhill.

Here in my new church it's sad that not a few of the younger crowd have embraced New Calvinism - many having come out of easy-believist mainstream evangelical backgrounds. The older crowd on the other hand are more reluctant and mainly stick to old-line reformed-evangelical teachings - many (pastor included) have not even heard of who Paul Washer is.

My two cents only!

What can thus be said? Fundamentalism exists everywhere, not just within IFB. You have religious fundamentalists of all stripes - be they IFB, Reformed, Pentecostal, Traditionalist Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, even atheist, whatever. In their zealous desires to obey their religious tenets beyond the letter and common sense - they have forgotten the dignity of human life that God has bestowed on everyone. (That's where the IFBX beliefs like "breaking of the will", any music that makes you wanna dance is evil comes from) When a soul will raise up his hand to kill or torment even his loved ones or the unarmed and weak for his ideology, his god - he has fallen foul to extremism and though he says he knows God, he does not know Him or His love truly at all.

The world will forever be like this to the end: the live-and-let-lives indulging and making merry versus the religious (fundamentalist) folks asking for killjoy restrictions and rules, and rules, both desires and wants kept restrained by the earthly powers (government). And amidst all these, we who have emerged above our (ex-IFB) past stand and observe, living life as it is before the final judgment.

exIFB · 01-26-2011, 04:26 AM

To be fair to Paul Washer, he has responded to critics fairly well and clarified his position, even going so far as to say that despite the resurgence in calvinistic doctrine (which, being a calvinist himself, he sees as a good thing obviously), he has also seen a rise in self righteousness and false humility as people rightly oppose quick prayerism, but have come to an opposite extreme, where they will deny themselves and others assurance of salvation because they continually scrutinize their "repentance" and "faith", finding imperfections in them and refusing to accept God's evaluation of them as righteous in Christ. When I heard the audio clip, I found a lot of respect for the man, but I still think that the YRR crowd treat him as some kind of saviour and guru.