Is Patriarchy Really Re-Routed Feminism?

[Darrell]

Quote:Darrell, what you said about fundy women standing in a kitchen hating on men is exactly what Kesler is talking about. Do you agree that she is describing the phenomenon you encountered?

I agree that Kesler is describing this activity. I'm not sure that I quite agree with her assessment of the proximal cause.

This is a pretty big topic and I'm just about to take a third load of boxes over to my new apartment so I won't have time to interact with this much at this second but I do intend to revisit this conversation when I can do it justice.

[Historian]

Interesting article. I've seen the same things many times, and in fact the two most annoyingly vocal pro-patriarchy woman I know, the kind who are always leading Bible studies for women about finding some kind of head so they can be worth something–rule their houses with an iron fist and encourage their children to despise their fathers. I'm still working out the "why" of it all. I think this writer and his wife have some excellent insights. I wouldn't say all of it is just reaction to the world, though. I've seen at least two other pretty obvious reasons for this phenomenon:

1. Liberation. I know that sounds strange, but how many of these pro-patriarchy wives have you known that are cruel, mean, rude and angry all the time? When I think of one of these two ladies I mentioned above, I know that both of them are pretty much hated in the churches they attend. Not that this hate is right, but the hate was inspired by her behavior toward everyone. They're the type of people who like to demean others, and by embracing patriarchy they have given themselves a safe, free environment to do so. Don't like what I said? Take it up with my head. Angry about my opinion? That's what we teach in our home and hubby is the one to argue with. Want to fight because I called your daughter a slut because she wore a dress that didn't come down to her ankles? My lord will defend my honor.

2. They ARE getting something out of it: they're getting all the power with none of the responsibility. They've got one version of a sugar-daddy. They preach that their husband is their head, but what they really mean is "I want my husband to support and pay for me. When I want to buy $600 worth of Gothardite materials, I like that someone else has to cough up for it. I don't have to work for it myself. When I insist that we start milling our own wheat and buying Hallellujah Acres' barley green or Juice Plus even though we don't quite have enough money to pay the phone bill this month, I like that I don't have to worry about it. I want it, so hubby has to buy it."

Finally, I wonder what the connection is between this phenomenon and another one I've noticed. When you find a man who is deeply pro-patriarchy, the kind who would go ballistic if his wife or children said anything negative about him or anything he does or says, the kind who thinks it's perfectly fine to call his wife one day and say, "Start packing. I've decided we're going to be missionaries to Brazil," this same guy doesn't have a driver's license because "the government doesn't have the right to tell us we can or can't drive;" lives in a trailer in the woods with a generator and his own water supply so the government can't find him, doesn't pay taxes and speaks insultingly and hatefully about any government official he doesn't like. I always thought this was interesting.

[Darrell]

I've re-read the articles. (not that I'm convinced I grasped them any better this time around )

So what I'm seeing is that there's a basic issue of definition going on here.

On the one side there seems to be the proposition that feminism=disrespect/hatred for men

On the other there's the proposition that feminism=respect for everybody

I'd grossly oversimplify it by saying it's "men are icky" vs. "women aren't any more icky than men are."

Is that a fair assessment?