The Great Homosexuality Debate (split from the Jesus Draws Thread)

[Darrell]

(03-29-2012 11:43 AM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 01:51 PM)Darrell Wrote:  I'll bet you can't tell me what's in my posts.

A hefty dose of sparkly sarcasm and wit?

You give me far too much credit.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(03-29-2012 11:47 AM)Darrell Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 11:43 AM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  A hefty dose of sparkly sarcasm and wit?

You give me far too much credit.

Heh.

[Bob M]

(03-28-2012 02:46 PM)Scorpio Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 02:09 PM)Darrell Wrote:  They were all gay too, right?

They did wear leather boots and carried riding crops.

That only inplies S & M, not gayness.

[JeseC]

Something that's always bothered me about this debate...

Without taking sides, what is it with the spectre of the "abusive gay man"? Or with men's horror at having another man hit on them? Yes, I know, unwanted sexual attention sucks. But I deal with it just about every day. And I know predatory and abusive men - I've dealt with them. Why is it suddenly so horrible for a man to be subjected to this kind of attention?

[Darrell]

Quote:Why is it suddenly so horrible for a man to be subjected to this kind of attention?

I think it's the notion that like attracts like. If a gay man is hitting on me it must be because I'm putting out "gay vibe" (whatever that is).

Personally I like to think I'm getting hit on because I'm a snappy dresser and I smell nice. But that may just be my ego talking.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(08-29-2012 12:20 PM)Xian Pugilist Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 09:24 AM)greg Wrote:  We have seen in our country a gradual acceptance of homosexuality, and, btw, I am just as opposed to heterosexual sin, but no one is running around on SFL screaming about wanting their rights and acceptance for committing heterosexual sins.

( I think that was Greg's comment... the formatting was confusing as I cleaned it up.)

Responding to what is apparently Greg's quote: Heterosexual sinners aren't having to run around screaming for their rights. They already have them. If they want to stop cohabiting (or whatever) and get married, they can. GLBT people don't want more rights than anyone else. They just want equal rights. Since no one is just offering them their rights, they are having to demand them. Just like women did in 1912 ...

[Bob M]

(08-29-2012 12:27 PM)Xian Pugilist Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 01:52 PM)Tony Mel Wrote:  With the Scriptures as the "more sure word of prophecy," I believe it is the Christian's prerogative to accurately represent what it says about all things, in their respective proportions.

By all means, speak out. Just be prepared that you may discover you are wrong too. If you speak WITH someone about the topic, instead of the presumptuous soap boxed lecture TO someone, everyone can benefit.

Kettle, meet pot.

[Bob M]

(08-29-2012 03:10 PM)Xian Pugilist Wrote:  Errrrr, That's pretty much what I believe. I should start that thread, if you are Xian you should work FOR GLBT marriage rights. That ought to stir some bees up.

(08-29-2012 12:32 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  Responding to what is apparently Greg's quote: Heterosexual sinners aren't having to run around screaming for their rights. They already have them. If they want to stop cohabiting (or whatever) and get married, they can. GLBT people don't want more rights than anyone else. They just want equal rights. Since no one is just offering them their rights, they are having to demand them. Just like women did in 1912 ...

I disagree. Here's why. It is a summary of a sermon I heard at my church in July.

1. Marriage is created and defined by God in the Scriptures as the sexual and covenantal union of a man and a woman in life-long allegiance to each other alone, as husband and wife, with a view to displaying Christ’s covenant relationship to his blood-bought church.

2. There is no such thing as so-called same-sex marriage, and it would be wise not to call it that.

3. Same sex desires and same sex orientation are part of our broken and disordered sexuality owing to God’s subjection of the created order to futility because of man’s sin.

4. Therefore, same-sex intercourse, not same-sex desire is the focus of Paul’s condemnation when he threatens exclusion from the kingdom of God.

5. Therefore, it would contradict love and contradict the gospel of Jesus to approve homosexual practice, whether by silence, or by endorsing so-called same-sex marriage, or by affirming the Christian ordination of practicing homosexuals.

6. The good news of Jesus is that God saves heterosexual sinners and homosexual sinners who trust Jesus, by counting them righteous because of Christ, and by helping them through his Spirit to live lives pleasing to him in their disordered brokenness.

7. Deciding what actions will be made legal or illegal through civil law is a moral activity aiming at the public good and informed by the worldview of each participant.

8. Don’t press the organization of the church or her pastors into political activism. Pray that the church and her ministers would feed the flock of God with the word of God centered on the gospel of Christ crucified and risen. Expect from your shepherds not that they would rally you behind political candidates or legislative initiatives, but they would point you over and over again to God and to his word, and to the cross.

[Trapped Pentecostal]

(08-29-2012 03:23 PM)Bob M Wrote:  1. Marriage is created and defined by God in the Scriptures as the sexual and covenantal union of a man and a woman in life-long allegiance to each other alone, as husband and wife, with a view to displaying Christ’s covenant relationship to his blood-bought church.

Wrong. Marriage existed long, long, long before either the Christian Bible, the Torah, or even Judaism itself. It wasn't invented in the scriptures. I won't even bother with the rest if your pastor couldn't even get that right.

By the way, which Biblical definition of marriage does your pastor hold to? One man, one woman, and concubines? One man, one woman, and the virgins that he takes after he slaughters their families in battle? One man, many women, and many concubines? One of the other variations found in the Bible?

[Bob M]

(08-29-2012 03:34 PM)Trapped Pentecostal Wrote:  

(08-29-2012 03:23 PM)Bob M Wrote:  1. Marriage is created and defined by God in the Scriptures as the sexual and covenantal union of a man and a woman in life-long allegiance to each other alone, as husband and wife, with a view to displaying Christ’s covenant relationship to his blood-bought church.

Wrong. Marriage existed long, long, long before either the Christian Bible, the Torah, or even Judaism itself. It wasn't invented in the scriptures. I won't even bother with the rest if your pastor couldn't even get that right.

By the way, which Biblical definition of marriage does your pastor hold to? One man, one woman, and concubines? One man, one woman, and the virgins that he takes after he slaughters their families in battle? One man, many women, and many concubines? One of the other variations found in the Bible?

I don't expect you, as an agnostic, to agree with me, or the Bible.