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chris1000bc · 02-24-2011, 11:33 AM

(02-24-2011 11:07 AM)fundyvangelicalcatholic Wrote: At the end of the day, God is judge. With our fundy background, I feel that many of us like to play Jesus. Well God's word says.....

You know what, God's word does say but what are WE going to do about it? Yell at the person? Beat them over a head with the Bible? Never speak with them? Cut off fellowship? Stone them ala the Pharisees? Point out there sin to them?

Oh ya...point out their sin! Ok, then what? We love you but you are in sin? Now how would that make you feel if someone came to you "in a spirit of love" (cough)unprompted by your actual searching and pointed out your sin to you and told you were against the word of God. What is your immediate reaction to that person's unprompted preaching (we have all been there as ex-fundys)?

Well preacher.....that is a stupid fundy law for which you twisted scripture to arrrive at the conclusion. Maybe so, but how does this change if the sin is blatent (blatent meaning in our iindividual interpretation - remember as Protestants we believe each person ndividually interpret scripture for themselves, so everyone's intepretation is subjective due to the holy spirit moving in each of our lives. Those who share a common belief are one of 250 recognized denominations)?

Why are people, who we perceive to be in sin and have been show/told, so unrepentent? Maybe because our tendancy to be yelled at by "Christians" immediately puts up a defense mechanism and said sinner runs from judgement and thus takes on an agnostic/atheist belief. So there you have it, we have exposed sin for what it is (whipes hands). Screw the person in sin. They are in sin and they need to get right with God! I can't hang out with them because they could taint MY walk with God.

What ever happend to loving the sinner? Oh wait, in our fundy background we are to love them, but to cut fellowship right? Sometimes we get our head so shoved up our Paul that we ignore Jesus earthly example.

To break it back down to the specific topic (Now Donb123 and I have had a round and round on this), Jesus handles sexual sin in a specific way which points back to my initial sentence - at the end of the day, God is judge.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I think our love for a person should come across more than anything else.

greg · 02-24-2011, 11:40 AM

(02-24-2011 11:07 AM)fundyvangelicalcatholic Wrote: At the end of the day, God is judge. With our fundy background, I feel that many of us like to play Jesus. Well God's word says.....

You know what, God's word does say but what are WE going to do about it? Yell at the person? Beat them over a head with the Bible? Never speak with them? Cut off fellowship? Stone them ala the Pharisees? Point out there sin to them?

Oh ya...point out their sin! Ok, then what? We love you but you are in sin? Now how would that make you feel if someone came to you "in a spirit of love" (cough)unprompted by your actual searching and pointed out your sin to you and told you were against the word of God. What is your immediate reaction to that person's unprompted preaching (we have all been there as ex-fundys)?

Well preacher.....that is a stupid fundy law for which you twisted scripture to arrrive at the conclusion. Maybe so, but how does this change if the sin is blatent (blatent meaning in our iindividual interpretation - remember as Protestants we believe each person ndividually interpret scripture for themselves, so everyone's intepretation is subjective due to the holy spirit moving in each of our lives. Those who share a common belief are one of 250 recognized denominations)?

Why are people, who we perceive to be in sin and have been show/told, so unrepentent? Maybe because our tendancy to be yelled at by "Christians" immediately puts up a defense mechanism and said sinner runs from judgement and thus takes on an agnostic/atheist belief. So there you have it, we have exposed sin for what it is (whipes hands). Screw the person in sin. They are in sin and they need to get right with God! I can't hang out with them because they could taint MY walk with God.

What ever happend to loving the sinner? Oh wait, in our fundy background we are to love them, but to cut fellowship right? Sometimes we get our head so shoved up our Paul that we ignore Jesus earthly example.

To break it back down to the specific topic (Now Donb123 and I have had a round and round on this), Jesus handles sexual sin in a specific way which points back to my initial sentence - at the end of the day, God is judge.

I agree with most of your comments here, but yet again I will refer to Josh Mcdowell's book "The New Tolerance" We have a very vocal, politcally saavy "movement" here who are not sitting idly by and contemplating how to get along in the world and christian community. They are demanding and receiving special rights and special priviledges. They are now allowed to be in the military, adopt children etc. So yes, the church does need to reach out and minister to these folks, but in addition, we must be realistic and stop, where we can, the tendrils of this wickedness into our society, methinks we are too late, much as we were too late on the abortion issue and now have the blood of millions of boys and girls on our hands.

Tooktheredpill · 02-24-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:They are demanding and receiving special rights and special priviledges. They are now allowed to be in the military, adopt children etc. So yes, the church does need to reach out and minister to these folks, but in addition, we must be realistic and stop, where we can, the tendrils of this wickedness into our society, methinks we are too late,

Greg, methinks you'll have trouble showing where the bible lists regulating wickedness in our society as one of the jobs of Christians/the church. It just ain't in there.

**Scorpio** · (This post was last modified: 02-24-2011 01:10 PM by Scorpio.)

(02-24-2011 10:57 AM)greg Wrote: Well said! Come to think of it, alot of animals "migrate" Wouldn't that be refreshing!

The problem with your final solution to TEH GAYZ is that most migration is on an annual basis so you'll get rid of them for 1/2 the year.
The other 1/2 year you will have to live in fear that TEH GAYZ will invade your home and rearrange the furniture.

fundyvangelicalcatholic · 02-24-2011, 01:27 PM

Where does showing the love of Christ = tolerance? Every time I bring up this point, the work "tolerance" comes out. Tolerance means you tolerate. Love of Christ is hating the sin but loving the sinner.

greg · 02-24-2011, 01:29 PM

(02-24-2011 01:09 PM)Scorpio Wrote:
(02-24-2011 10:57 AM)greg Wrote: Well said! Come to think of it, alot of animals "migrate" Wouldn't that be refreshing!

The problem with your final solution to TEH GAYZ is that most migration is on an annual basis so you'll get rid of them for 1/2 the year.
The other 1/2 year you will have to live in fear that TEH GAYZ will invade your home and rearrange the furniture.

That wasn't to all gays everywhere, that was too one certain person (don't know if they are gay) that comments on SFL about only one topic, and when they came back, you know, it would actually be good to see them again, and perhaps they would have something "new" to discuss.

Katerpillar · 02-24-2011, 01:46 PM

(02-24-2011 01:27 PM)fundyvangelicalcatholic Wrote: Where does showing the love of Christ = tolerance? Every time I bring up this point, the work "tolerance" comes out. Tolerance means you tolerate. Love of Christ is hating the sin but loving the sinner.

Seriously, that "tolerance" thing is a bunch of baloney. Are we supposed to "tolerate" stealing, or lying, or cheating on your spouse, or drunkenness, or gluttony?

I mean, you can still love the people are involved in these sins, but that doesn't mean we have to tolerate the immoral behavior.

chris1000bc · (This post was last modified: 02-24-2011 03:26 PM by chris1000bc.)

(02-24-2011 01:46 PM)Katerpillar Wrote: I mean, you can still love the people are involved in these sins, but that doesn't mean we have to tolerate the immoral behavior.

What do you mean when you say that we do not have to "tolerate" immoral behavior? I looked up "tolerate" at dictionary.com and got this definition: "Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference." Are you saying that we should interfere in the lives of homosexuals to prevent the existence, occurrence, or practice of homosexuality? I am honestly trying to understand your point of view, and apologize if I am failing to do that.

Many people tolerate gluttony in themselves and others. I don't try to force people to exercise or diet. And homosexuality is not the same as stealing or adultery (unless the person is someone's spouse). No one is being harmed with homosexuality in the same sense that someone is being harmed when someone steals or commits adultery. We (or really just me as far as I know) tolerate and commit lies far too often. As a society, we tolerate drunkenness as long as no crime is committed with it.

To live in a free society, there must be some level of tolerance that we all must hold between ourselves and those with whom we disagree. By definition, when you tolerate something, it is something you don't like or want. And as long as no crime is being committed, we do have to tolerate homosexuality.

Katerpillar · 02-24-2011, 04:06 PM

(02-24-2011 03:11 PM)chris1000bc Wrote:
(02-24-2011 01:46 PM)Katerpillar Wrote: I mean, you can still love the people are involved in these sins, but that doesn't mean we have to tolerate the immoral behavior.

What do you mean when you say that we do not have to "tolerate" immoral behavior? I looked up "tolerate" at dictionary.com and got this definition: "Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference." Are you saying that we should interfere in the lives of homosexuals to prevent the existence, occurrence, or practice of homosexuality? I am honestly trying to understand your point of view, and apologize if I am failing to do that.

Many people tolerate gluttony in themselves and others. I don't try to force people to exercise or diet. And homosexuality is not the same as stealing or adultery (unless the person is someone's spouse). No one is being harmed with homosexuality in the same sense that someone is being harmed when someone steals or commits adultery. We (or really just me as far as I know) tolerate and commit lies far too often. As a society, we tolerate drunkenness as long as no crime is committed with it.

To live in a free society, there must be some level of tolerance that we all must hold between ourselves and those with whom we disagree. By definition, when you tolerate something, it is something you don't like or want. And as long as no crime is being committed, we do have to tolerate homosexuality.

By not tolerating it, I mean that it should be recognized as sin, and the homosexual ought to feel guilty for being that way (just the same as a liar or a thief or a whore ought to feel guilty). Preachers should preach about it from the pulpit, and shouldn't have to be labeled as using hate-speech.

**Naomi** · 02-24-2011, 04:13 PM

(02-24-2011 01:29 PM)greg Wrote: That wasn't to all gays everywhere, that was too one certain person (don't know if they are gay) that comments on SFL about only one topic, and when they came back, you know, it would actually be good to see them again, and perhaps they would have something "new" to discuss.

Hey, all of us coming from fundy-land have had way more experience with passive aggression than anyone needs. Just come right out and name whichever person it is you are insulting. If you're going to attack someone, do it from the front.