Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

***Darrell*** · (This post was last modified: 02-23-2011 06:23 PM by Darrell.)

Quote:I have 'gay' people in my life. When I am with them I do not 'preach' at them.

Same here. I also Dallas Cowboys fans in my life. I get along better with the gay folks.

Jenn · 02-23-2011, 06:36 PM

"I learned so much today Doug... whether your gay, bisexual, it doesn't matter, ya' know? Because, at the end of the day, they're both gross." --Sarah Silverman

HelenW · 02-23-2011, 08:52 PM

This is a pretty touchy subject for me personally...
I was involved in the GLBT community before coming to Christ. I was extremely gifted in the fact that my sexual tendencies were taken away that day, BUT remembering how engrossed I was in it, I understand how difficult dealing with such an issue is. Without God's movement I would definately struggle with sexual purity for a good portion of my life, if not all of it...
I do believe it is a sin, but I also believe it is only possible to combat it with God's help. It really is a very, very difficult thing, as well as personal. I can't stand in front of a person and say "YOU. Change. Now. Otherwise God forever hates you!" because that simply isn't realistic - the homosexual needs to have a connection with God first, and He will move the heart to want to change, on His terms. "Outside talk" from another person helps, but it is, ultimately, an individual problem, with God's hand being paramount.

Er, as to the more technical reasons why I believe the Bible does say it is a sin, here, under HO.

BTW, today was Pink T-Shirt Day. It started some years ago when a boy in Nova Scotia was called homophobic slurs for wearing a pink T-shirt, and a group of kids responded by wearing a pink T-shirt next day to send an anti-bullying message. I decked myself out in pink today. I'm not going to stand for bullying of anybody.

Katerpillar · 02-23-2011, 09:26 PM

(02-23-2011 05:49 PM)Darrell Wrote:
Quote: It sounds like: "there's something wrong with you as a person" or "you shouldn't have the right to be happy in a relationship."

From the perspective of the opposite side I'd rephrase those as "you have an innate disposition to a particular sin" and "that's no excuse to break God's law even if you think that is where happiness lies." It's not that the traditional perspective hates pleasure (a common misconception) but rather the pleausres of sin for a season that ultimately result in damage to the person doing them.

Quote:I would never compare sexual orientation with alcoholism. Addiction is the not the same as who you happen to be attracted to.

From a historic Christian perspective they are not dissimilar. They would both be seen as overwhelming desires to a violation of God's law through intemperate behavior.

If you're of the position that same-sex relationships contain no inherent moral prohibition then I understand why you would think the two are totally unrelated. It all depends on where you're standing.

Good answer, Darrell.

It's pretty clear in Scripture how God feels about this subject. It's even in the New Testament (Romans 1), for those who try to claim that if homosexuality is an abomination, then we also shouldn't eat shrimp (I've seriously heard that argument too many times. It's ridiculous.).

Katerpillar · 02-23-2011, 09:35 PM

(02-23-2011 08:52 PM)HelenW Wrote: This is a pretty touchy subject for me personally...
I was involved in the GLBT community before coming to Christ. I was extremely gifted in the fact that my sexual tendencies were taken away that day, BUT remembering how engrossed I was in it, I understand how difficult dealing with such an issue is. Without God's movement I would definately struggle with sexual purity for a good portion of my life, if not all of it...
I do believe it is a sin, but I also believe it is only possible to combat it with God's help. It really is a very, very difficult thing, as well as personal. I can't stand in front of a person and say "YOU. Change. Now. Otherwise God forever hates you!" because that simply isn't realistic - the homosexual needs to have a connection with God first, and He will move the heart to want to change, on His terms. "Outside talk" from another person helps, but it is, ultimately, an individual problem, with God's hand being paramount.

Er, as to the more technical reasons why I believe the Bible does say it is a sin, here, under HO.

BTW, today was Pink T-Shirt Day. It started some years ago when a boy in Nova Scotia was called homophobic slurs for wearing a pink T-shirt, and a group of kids responded by wearing a pink T-shirt next day to send an anti-bullying message. I decked myself out in pink today. I'm not going to stand for bullying of anybody.

I would be interesting in hearing more about how Christ redeemed you from your previous lifestyle. I'm sure it must be hard, because you really don't hear many stories from people who used to be that way, and then converted.

Tony Mel · 02-23-2011, 09:38 PM

Homosexuality is the only way I could define what the Bible refers to as practices "against nature," in Romans 1.

Faith · 02-23-2011, 09:40 PM

I think my gay defender cape is at the dry cleaner. The sequins fall off if I run it through the washer...

Actually I'm just tired of arguing about this over an over again. Let people be who they are and love them, leave the judgment to God. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" leaves people hurting. Just love people, God will deal with what is sin and what isn't.

Everyone has the right to believe what they want about homosexuality. What I take issue with is when people put judgments on GLBT folks just because they are gay, lesbian, bi, or trans. Calling them "perverts" because they are wired to fall in love with someone of the same gender is simply hateful. Insinuating that they are pedophiles is plain old smarmy. Believing that gay sex is a sin doesn't mean that a Christian should have an adversarial attitude towards gay people. Trying to deny people their human rights is symptomatic of that adversarial attitude. Thank you Focus on the Family...

I know many wonderful Christians who are gay. A visit to an open & affirming church to meet some actual gay Christians would be quite instructive for many of those who posted here. I disagree that scripture is clear. Those who think it's clear should take a look at the link in my signature.

Faith · 02-23-2011, 09:44 PM

(02-23-2011 09:35 PM)Katerpillar Wrote: I would be interesting in hearing more about how Christ redeemed you from your previous lifestyle. I'm sure it must be hard, because you really don't hear many stories from people who used to be that way, and then converted.

That's 'cause most of them can't stand it anymore and relapse. Plus there's that whole "gay people are evil and icky" thing that a lot of Christians have going on. Dodgy

If you're trying to blend in and not be gay anymore, why talk about it and have everyone treat you like a leper?

Faith · 02-23-2011, 09:48 PM

(02-23-2011 09:38 PM)Tony Mel Wrote: Homosexuality is the only way I could define what the Bible refers to as practices "against nature," in Romans 1.

But there are homosexual animals, too. It's not against nature, it naturally occurs.

I would say that if a straight guy decides to have gay sex just because he's feeling a little randy, then that would be against his nature and it would be wrong for him to do it. I also think it's wrong for a guy who knows he's gay to marry a woman and have kids with her for the sake of keeping up appearances. Again, it's unnatural for him to behave that way.

Katerpillar · 02-23-2011, 09:58 PM

(02-23-2011 09:40 PM)Faith Wrote: I think my gay defender cape is at the dry cleaner. The sequins fall off if I run it through the washer...

Actually I'm just tired of arguing about this over an over again. Let people be who they are and love them, leave the judgment to God. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" leaves people hurting. Just love people, God will deal with what is sin and what isn't.

Everyone has the right to believe what they want about homosexuality. What I take issue with is when people put judgments on GLBT folks just because they are gay, lesbian, bi, or trans. Calling them "perverts" because they are wired to fall in love with someone of the same gender is simply hateful. Insinuating that they are pedophiles is plain old smarmy. Believing that gay sex is a sin doesn't mean that a Christian should have an adversarial attitude towards gay people. Trying to deny people their human rights is symptomatic of that adversarial attitude. Thank you Focus on the Family...

I know many wonderful Christians who are gay. A visit to an open & affirming church to meet some actual gay Christians would be quite instructive for many of those who posted here. I disagree that scripture is clear. Those who think it's clear should take a look at the link in my signature.

I actually read the link in your signature quite a while back, when this forum first started. I don't believe it's acceptable to try to explain away those very clear Scriptures using a cultural application like that. If we can explain something THAT clear away using "culture", then how many other things in Scripture could be explained away like that? We might even be able to explain away who Jesus Christ was if we did that.

I believe that Scripture is the authority, and even though some Scripture takes a little bit of deeper study to understand, the Scriptures that mention homosexuality are crystal clear.

I don't hate gays. I have an uncle who is gay, and I don't hate him. I want him to come to know Christ, but he's an atheist. I want homosexuals to come to know Christ just as much as I want any other sinner to do the same.