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**Naomi** · 02-18-2011, 05:26 PM

(02-18-2011 04:57 PM)LMcC Wrote: I know, but I don't want to ignore those men who are assaulted. After all, I believe in Biblical equality and not women completely taking over and treating men the same way we've been treated for... well, ever

Men are assaulted all the time, almost entirely by men - and it is hard for them to speak up. Yes, there are men assaulted by women. There certainly are boys sexually abused by women, as well as girls abused by women. That doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly in our culture, men do the abusing. Recognizing both those facts (men can be assaulted by women, but it is very rare) does not mean we are completely turning the tables, or creating a matriarchy, or oppressing men. Far from it!

For the most part, as you'll see when you get into the research, we're really just holding abusers responsible for their actions. All abusers. Especially men who try to shift responsibility for their abusiveness onto their female partners, which happens way too often. Like you said yourself, there's a different dynamic going on when men abuse women in our culture. Many people (many fundamentalists!) actively support abusive men and the attitudes of entitlement that enable it. Equality is great - cultures with gender equality have lower rates of domestic violence; unfortunately we're not quite there yet.

greg · 02-18-2011, 05:41 PM

(02-18-2011 05:26 PM)Naomi Wrote:
(02-18-2011 04:57 PM)LMcC Wrote: I know, but I don't want to ignore those men who are assaulted. After all, I believe in Biblical equality and not women completely taking over and treating men the same way we've been treated for... well, ever

Men are assaulted all the time, almost entirely by men - and it is hard for them to speak up. Yes, there are men assaulted by women. There certainly are boys sexually abused by women, as well as girls abused by women. That doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly in our culture, men do the abusing. Recognizing both those facts (men can be assaulted by women, but it is very rare) does not mean we are completely turning the tables, or creating a matriarchy, or oppressing men. Far from it!

For the most part, as you'll see when you get into the research, we're really just holding abusers responsible for their actions. All abusers. Especially men who try to shift responsibility for their abusiveness onto their female partners, which happens way too often. Like you said yourself, there's a different dynamic going on when men abuse women in our culture. Many people (many fundamentalists!) actively support abusive men and the attitudes of entitlement that enable it. Equality is great - cultures with gender equality have lower rates of domestic violence; unfortunately we're not quite there yet.

You are wrong about the stats regarding abuse victims being usually females. Should I believe you or my lying eyes. Women are constantly abusing their boyfriends/husbands. They will even tell the male "I am going to give myself a black eye and blame it on you if you don't do thus and such"

I abhor all domestic violence, but crusading for women and acting like they are usually the victims is completely wrong. I have seriously thought about starting an outreach for abused men, services for abused women are all over the place, also something needs to be done to help abused men as it relates to child custody and legal help, all kinds of help for women, virtually nothing for men. This is for real, and men out there need to band together and stop this outrage of abuse.

greg · 02-18-2011, 05:45 PM

(02-18-2011 02:33 PM)greg Wrote: The #1 most under-reported crime in the U.S. - Domestic Violence against men.

I'll just throw this in for nothing, Planned Parenthood provide various services for women, the percentage for non-abortion services? .9%

My sources for these stats? On domestic violence, ME - 22 years of law enforcement. On planned parenthood? I heard Laura Ingalls quote it on FOX last night, didn't here her quote her source, but it should be pretty easy to verify. Every one should know by now that Planned Parenthood is the abortions-r-us of black children genocide. (primarily)

Great news though it appears with the economic downturn that Planned Parenthood is going to be de-funded.

Laura Ingraham, I think Laura Ingalls played on Little House on the Prairie

**Naomi** · 02-18-2011, 05:51 PM

*facepalm* I don't even have the energy to respond to this. Anyone?

Or for the more inquiring minds, just look at the research. It stands on its own feet. The links I posted are a great start; let me know if you want more suggestions.

greg · 02-18-2011, 06:05 PM

(02-18-2011 05:26 PM)Naomi Wrote:
(02-18-2011 04:57 PM)LMcC Wrote: I know, but I don't want to ignore those men who are assaulted. After all, I believe in Biblical equality and not women completely taking over and treating men the same way we've been treated for... well, ever

Men are assaulted all the time, almost entirely by men - and it is hard for them to speak up. Yes, there are men assaulted by women. There certainly are boys sexually abused by women, as well as girls abused by women. That doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly in our culture, men do the abusing. Recognizing both those facts (men can be assaulted by women, but it is very rare) does not mean we are completely turning the tables, or creating a matriarchy, or oppressing men. Far from it!

For the most part, as you'll see when you get into the research, we're really just holding abusers responsible for their actions. All abusers. Especially men who try to shift responsibility for their abusiveness onto their female partners, which happens way too often. Like you said yourself, there's a different dynamic going on when men abuse women in our culture. Many people (many fundamentalists!) actively support abusive men and the attitudes of entitlement that enable it. Equality is great - cultures with gender equality have lower rates of domestic violence; unfortunately we're not quite there yet.

You have drunk long and deeply at the Kool-Aid fountain friend.

Lizzy F. · 02-18-2011, 06:27 PM

(02-18-2011 05:51 PM)Naomi Wrote: *facepalm* I don't even have the energy to respond to this. Anyone?

De-lurking here...

Maybe the "domestic abuse/physical assault" stuff can get taken to a different thread?

Greg made a point earlier in the thread that wasn't addressed. The abortion of African American children are 35% of total abortions when African Americans are only 12% of the population. Approximately 1/2 of African American pregnancies end in abortion.

Link

Quote:You'd be surprised how rarely people think that way. I've had more than my share of posts from people saying they'd only support a friend if they aborted, or even that they would force their daughters to abort in that situation. When I do find someone who is supportive of abortion rights who yet would support a rape victim not aborting, I get genuinely surprised.

I've seen this happen with African American women. My white friends who got pregnant (for any reason, not just rape) get much more support if they decide to have their babies than the African American girls. It's much harder for them socially and they continually have to fight "black women living on welfare whose children all have different fathers" stereotypes.

**LMcC** · 02-18-2011, 06:41 PM

(02-18-2011 05:26 PM)Naomi Wrote:
(02-18-2011 04:57 PM)LMcC Wrote: I know, but I don't want to ignore those men who are assaulted. After all, I believe in Biblical equality and not women completely taking over and treating men the same way we've been treated for... well, ever

Men are assaulted all the time, almost entirely by men - and it is hard for them to speak up. Yes, there are men assaulted by women. There certainly are boys sexually abused by women, as well as girls abused by women. That doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly in our culture, men do the abusing. Recognizing both those facts (men can be assaulted by women, but it is very rare) does not mean we are completely turning the tables, or creating a matriarchy, or oppressing men. Far from it!

I know that, and you know that, but the idea of men and women interacting as equals is just as bad in the eyes of some as women taking over. They think it's the same thing. "Oh NOES! A woman SAID something! She must be SILENCED!" Weak.

Quote:For the most part, as you'll see when you get into the research, we're really just holding abusers responsible for their actions. All abusers. Especially men who try to shift responsibility for their abusiveness onto their female partners, which happens way too often. Like you said yourself, there's a different dynamic going on when men abuse women in our culture. Many people (many fundamentalists!) actively support abusive men and the attitudes of entitlement that enable it. Equality is great - cultures with gender equality have lower rates of domestic violence; unfortunately we're not quite there yet.

I've read the Barna research about egalitarian marriages vs. traditionalist marriages. Egalitarian marriages have only about a third the rate of abuse the traditional marriages do. It is no surprise to me that it can be put to the test on national levels.

I would answer one of Greg's post and agree about the link between abortion and racism, but since he cannot understand my postings, oh well! Tongue

Even if I did post that I agree with him, he'd still tell me I was wrong on principle so it doesn't matter.

Elijah Craig · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2011 09:04 PM by Elijah Craig.)

(02-18-2011 05:26 PM)Naomi Wrote:
(02-18-2011 04:57 PM)LMcC Wrote: I know, but I don't want to ignore those men who are assaulted. After all, I believe in Biblical equality and not women completely taking over and treating men the same way we've been treated for... well, ever

Men are assaulted all the time, almost entirely by men - and it is hard for them to speak up. Yes, there are men assaulted by women. There certainly are boys sexually abused by women, as well as girls abused by women. That doesn't change the fact that overwhelmingly in our culture, men do the abusing. Recognizing both those facts (men can be assaulted by women, but it is very rare) does not mean we are completely turning the tables, or creating a matriarchy, or oppressing men. Far from it!

For the most part, as you'll see when you get into the research, we're really just holding abusers responsible for their actions. All abusers. Especially men who try to shift responsibility for their abusiveness onto their female partners, which happens way too often. Like you said yourself, there's a different dynamic going on when men abuse women in our culture. Many people (many fundamentalists!) actively support abusive men and the attitudes of entitlement that enable it. Equality is great - cultures with gender equality have lower rates of domestic violence; unfortunately we're not quite there yet.

BULLSHIT.

I can attest from personal experience that men rarely report being abused by a female. The shame and embarassment is too deep.

I have enormous sympathy for abuse victims who try to fight and be different, regardless of sex, race, or orientation. I have little to no patience for this kind of bullshit.

**Naomi** · 02-18-2011, 10:01 PM

(02-18-2011 08:52 PM)Elijah Craig Wrote: I have little to no patience for this kind of bullshit.

Please tell me exactly what you disagree with, and which claims you contest. Please quote directly from what I said, if possible. If you were physically or sexually assaulted by a woman as an adult, please know that you have my full support. Please reread that I did not deny that you exist, and I believe in holding every abuser fully accountable.

I would appreciate it if all the men who seem so offended by my claim that the vast majority of domestic abuse in het couples is perpetrated by men would read Lundy Bancroft's work before replying, or at least research it a little.

Elijah Craig · (This post was last modified: 02-18-2011 10:12 PM by Elijah Craig.)

(02-18-2011 10:01 PM)Naomi Wrote: Please tell me exactly what you disagree with, and which claims you contest.

I disagree with the false allegation that female on male violence is "very rare." It's pure bullshit. I don't give a flying f*** what George Barna says. Just about any pastor, police officer, pyschologist, social worker, etc., will dispute that assertion. The stigma of being a male victim of female violence is such that it is rarely reported.

I've gotten to know some private information about a leading patriarchist or two. They had abusive mothers. Their worldview is shaped by that, like many a radical feminist's worldview is shaped by an abusive father. Doesn't change the fact such views are BS.

Quote:I would appreciate it if all the men who seem so offended by my claim that the vast majority of domestic abuse in het couples is perpetrated by men would read Lundy Bancroft's work before replying, or at least research it

No.