Domestic Violence discussion (split from On being pro-life)

[Naomi]

Just to throw this out there: if you're going to address the human side of unwanted pregnancy, make sure to fight domestic violence as well. Partner rape is an unfortunately effective method (because of custody claims by fathers) for controlling women who are able to become pregnant.

"Report Details Sabotage of Birth Control"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/health...gnant.html

LMcC - what is your stance in cases of rape/incest? I'm assuming you're not one to encourage risks to the mother's health/life for the sake of a potential live birth. Just wondering, where do you draw the line in what you support?

[greg]

(02-18-2011 12:55 AM)Naomi Wrote:  Just to throw this out there: if you're going to address the human side of unwanted pregnancy, make sure to fight domestic violence as well. Partner rape is an unfortunately effective method (because of custody claims by fathers) for controlling women who are able to become pregnant.

"Report Details Sabotage of Birth Control"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/health...gnant.html

LMcC - what is your stance in cases of rape/incest? I'm assuming you're not one to encourage risks to the mother's health/life for the sake of a potential live birth. Just wondering, where do you draw the line in what you support?

Let's concentrate on the "innocent" babies life first.

[Darrell]

Quote:. The church's absolute lack of concern toward victims of domestic and sexual violence, along with the refusal of the church to make violent men take responsibility for their own sin,

Just out of curiosity, which church are you referring to here? fundy churches? the universal church? organized churches in general?

[LMcC]

(02-18-2011 12:46 PM)Darrell Wrote:  

Quote:. The church's absolute lack of concern toward victims of domestic and sexual violence, along with the refusal of the church to make violent men take responsibility for their own sin,

Just out of curiosity, which church are you referring to here? fundy churches? the universal church? organized churches in general?

First, Fundamentalist churches in general. Domestic and sexual violence routinely get swept under the rug, especially in Hyles-linked churches.

Unfortunately, I also have to include complementarian churches such as the SBC as well. Several high-ups in the SBC have made horrible comments concerning women and domestic violence, and one is on record admitting he sent a woman back to her husband's fists even though he knew she would be in harm's way. He made fun of her when she showed back up in church upset and having two black eyes. (CBMW took the audio file off their website when people started pointing that out.) Individual SB churches may get it right, but they're getting new staff from the seminaries where teaching about dealing with domestic violence is all messed up.

I can honestly say that the only churches I've ever been in that did anything positive concerning domestic violence were United Methodist. Brentwood UMC has domestic violence support groups in this area. I was shocked... not because they had these groups, but because I made it to my mid-30s without ever seeing such a thing in church. To be fair, Christ Cathedral may have something similar, but I'm only there once a month so I don't know.

[Darrell]

Thanks for the explanation.

I consider myself to be a "soft complementarian" but I agree with you completely on the issues that surround domestic violence. Unfortunately, divorce has been so demonized in Baptist circles that some honestly do think it's better for a woman to put up with being hit (or if she does leave to return back to her abuser as long as he says he's really sorry this time) rather than simply call it quits.

And it's not only male on female violence either -- there's more than a little female on male physical abuse that rarely gets reported due to the stigma.

[LMcC]

(02-18-2011 01:06 PM)Darrell Wrote:  Thanks for the explanation.

I consider myself to be a "soft complementarian" but I agree with you completely on the issues that surround domestic violence. Unfortunately, divorce has been so demonized in Baptist circles that some honestly do think it's better for a woman to put up with being hit (or if she does leave to return back to her abuser as long as he says he's really sorry this time) rather than simply call it quits.

I got a wake-up call on the divorce issue a while back. Let's just say people get too hung up on a little piece of paper. The abuser is the one who broke the marriage vows and killed the marriage. The victim who files for divorce is only making public the truth that already existed.

I also have this pro-life thing about having the woman survive and letting the marriage croak instead of having both the woman and the marriage end in violence. I'm weird that way.

Quote:And it's not only male on female violence either -- there's more than a little female on male physical abuse that rarely gets reported due to the stigma.

Certainly! Abuse victims need help and healing regardless of sex, and abusers also need help and should face justice. Men who have been harmed must be free to speak out without being unfairly judged, and must have options available to them to escape.

That said, I have never heard of a woman who can justify beating the daylights out of her husband with Scripture and having her pastor support her on it. The male-on-female violence has a spiritual element that doesn't exist the other way around.

[greg]

The #1 most under-reported crime in the U.S. - Domestic Violence against men.

I'll just throw this in for nothing, Planned Parenthood provide various services for women, the percentage for non-abortion services? .9%

My sources for these stats? On domestic violence, ME - 22 years of law enforcement. On planned parenthood? I heard Laura Ingalls quote it on FOX last night, didn't here her quote her source, but it should be pretty easy to verify. Every one should know by now that Planned Parenthood is the abortions-r-us of black children genocide. (primarily)

Great news though it appears with the economic downturn that Planned Parenthood is going to be de-funded.

[Naomi]

Darrell, and LMcC - Definitely check out the stats on domestic violence. In heterosexual relationships, the abuse of men, although it occasionally does happen, occurs at much lower rates than the abuse of women. I would recommend reading up on this, as the claim that men are just as abused as women is frequently made by abusive men to get public support by portraying relationship difficulties as mutual. Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That? is an excellent and informative resource. Definitely go to abuse advocates and clinical psychologists who specialize in this for information - like most cases of abuse, truth can be twisted by those in power.

LMcC - I think you may have assumed I think a lot of things I don't. I would never expect a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant to automatically want to have an abortion. As stated above in the thread when that question came up, I fully support the woman herself making her own decision for whatever she thinks is best. To make my position more clear, I think the best person to make that decision is the woman herself. What I was asking is: would you wish to make abortion inaccessible to women who are pregnant from rape? Or incest? I'm really glad to hear your support totally comprehensive treatment - I do, too! In fact, I have a hard time believing anyone would not be in favor of that - it's more that some people do not follow up talk with action. I am very aware that abortion can be used by abusive men to control women. However, this motivates me to stop domestic violence, not abortion. Anyway, like I had guessed above, I imagine most people on every angle of the abortion debate have so much in common that they could work together on almost everything needed to reduce unintended pregnancy. Which is why it's so important to talk about.

Greg - Unfortunately, the information you received was vastly incorrect. Fortunately, it is quite easy to check up on this. See here: History of Planned Parenthood -> By the Numbers. Planned Parenthood is filling a gap in healthcare for low income women and men by doing cancer screenings, providing yearly checkups, giving out contraception and condoms, treating STIs, and educating teens and adults about sexual health. Cutting their funding would leave many individuals of low socioeconomic status with no healthcare. Title X already can't fund abortion! So what's being cut is funding for treatment of illness and preventive care. Boggles my mind.

From the site:
3% of all Planned Parenthood health services are abortion services.
12% of Planned Parenthood health care clients receive abortion services.

[Darrell]

Quote: In heterosexual relationships, the abuse of men, although it occasionally does happen, occurs at much lower rates than the abuse of women.

Which is what you'd expect to see if that abuse is being massively underreported.

[Naomi]

(02-18-2011 04:43 PM)Darrell Wrote:  

Quote: In heterosexual relationships, the abuse of men, although it occasionally does happen, occurs at much lower rates than the abuse of women.

Which is what you'd expect to see if that abuse is being massively underreported.

Seriously, check out the research! This is something I care about, in a personal way, as it has affected quite a bit of my family. It's an important issue. Please, look up the facts on this!