Retreat! Without a Trace - Fundamentalism and Cultural Consequences

[IFB No More]

I write this to complain about a disturbing trend I have seen. The first part of the post will sound fundy to some of you but please read on!

Just a few centuries ago, Christianity have been the cornerstone of society and has helped greatly in building Western civilization. The monastries during the Dark and Medieval Ages were centres of scientific learning and progress. Entire universities, hospitals were found by churches. But what happened in the 20th and 21st century - especially after the Second World War? It seems that Christians have disappeared from the social scene completely.

I say that both fundamentalism, and to a lesser extent, evangelicalism, has been guilty of neglecting this greater responsibility of being salt and light to the world. We have misunderstood what separation from the world is. We have misunderstood what Christian witness ought to be.

Recently, evangelicalism and fundamentalism has been experiencing some upheavals. We hear sermons, podcasts, see theological blogs. We limit our Christian witness only to the DIRECT propogation of the Gospel, feeling guilty at the shallow message of much of modern-day evangelicalism and the rampant materialism seen in modern-day Western civilization. We laud preachers. Attend gospel conferences. Praise missionaries and their great zeal. We instil guilt in our youth - telling them that the only thing worthy to die for is to take up the office of Ministry - or at least be the spouse of one.

Yet the Christian businessman is neglected - unless he also takes up missionary work together with his business. The magistrate and the lawyer are neglected - unless he sounds vocal against abortion and homosexuality. The model, singer or actor? Well? Probably we will use them as a oppurtunity to lambast Hollywood or MTV for their "ungodly" values.

And when people ask "Why", we give them the excuse "Well, the Christian is to keep themselves unspotted from the world". Well, tell that to the Christians of the past centuries, who have done their best to aid mankind with their inventions by the talents God had gifted them. Until fundamentalism and evangelical Christianity divorces themselves from cultural conservatism - I feel this will continue. I am not saying that everyone should not be conservative, but it should not be taught that conservatism should be a mindset a "good Christian" ought to have.

Why is this trend happening? What are the possible consequences of this? What should we do to counter it? And of all these, are my observations correct? I'll answer them in subsequent posts!

[Lizzy F.]

My thoughts:

I don't think things were more "Christian" back then. Our entire Western European culture is based on the Renaissance, which happened because Rome and the Bankers of Venice first sacked and then sold out the Byzantine Empire to the Muslims. The "rediscovery" of Greek texts came about because the Byzantines had copies of them. These led to the relearning of Greek and a Greek language textbook, which led to new translations and understandings of the Bible.

And then the Renaissance writers vilified the Byzantine Empire and wiped it from the history books. This bias is still reflected in our use of the term "dark ages" because it ignores that Constantinople was a center of great learning, industry, and Christianity. And it's further represented by most people's nearly complete ignorance of the Orthodox branch of Christianity. One of my church history textbooks only devotes 2 pages to the orthodox church and their ignorance is made more obvious by the picture of the orthodox icon being backwards.

American history is the same way. When you get to the roots of why our continent was discovered and read the real history of Columbus (who was the first conquistador and killed hundreds of thousands of people) and then try to mesh that with "Columbus Day" it's pretty disillusioning. I have childrens' textbooks that explain what a wonderful guy he was and my Mother read stories to me about his faith when I was little.

You get the point. "Christianity" has more often than not been a political justification to oppress/hate/kill other people, including Christians. So I'd really rather not put it back as a "cornerstone".


But I agree with your second point. Christians shouldn't abandon professions because of fears of getting "soiled" or "worldly". We need lawyers/models/doctors/scientists/teachers/actors/painters/musicians.

They also don't just abandon professions, they abandon a commitment to be excellent.

I sing in a 140+ people choir and I teach piano. But I refused to join the choir at my ex-church because I saw too many people not practice, not care how they sounded, and had a refusal to accept any criticism.

They then treated my musicianship as a free gift from God and tried to manipulate me into joining the church choir. They told me I was gifted (which I'm not) when the real fact of the matter was that I practiced and they didn't. They didn't want to admit that they had no discipline. They used their "spirituality" as an excuse not to work at it.

I've heard stories on here from people who don't like to hire Christians because of their sub-standard service and it mirrors my own experiences. Christians should really drop the "You're persecuting me because I'm a Christian" excuse and just stop doing shoddy work.

[IFB No More]

I agree that many have used Christianity as an excuse to slaughter people and forced others to convert by the sword. I shudder to hear how some fundy Christians today advocate theocracy - esp. the Reconstructionists. To convert by the sword or by decree is to defy the sixth commandment that tells us not to murder. The physical kingdom of Christ will only be realized when He returns - God does not need us to bring it to earth!

Agreed that Christians shouldn't abandon professions just because it may be "worldly". One of the things that made me wrote this thread at first was that BJU film, "Miltown Pride". Seriously, is that all the flagship liberal arts fundamentalist college can offer from an aesthetic perspective? I am sorely disappointed. Even "Fireproof" is only mediocre. And CCM? Well, most of it is just secular music skinned, peeled, dumbed down and given a Christian flavoring. And no wonder so many CCM artists "crossover"!

[Darren]

Interesting discussion. It is difficult to come up with a single reason "why" our society does not respect Christianity the way it seemed to in the past. I also agree that many of the things done in the name of Christ over the past 2,000 years were shameful and not truly representative of Christ at all.

Throughout history, Christianity becomes a victim of its own (apparent) success. Our sinful flesh begins to think WE are the reason for our success and we leave God and go in our own direction. Example: the 1920s were the zenith of fundamentalism. Sunday and his crowd had outlawed alcohol, there were multitudes of "great" churches from coast to coast, several states had outlawed the teaching of evolution and many other states and localities had unwritten policies against it, and the Catholic League of Decency and fellow Protestant organizations were effectively censoring movies and books. Yet what do we remember the 20s for? The "Roaring 20s," the Jazz Age, unprecedented violence as alcohol-fueled gangs controlled the large cities and rumrunners terrorized rural areas, the rise of the motion picture industry and of course the Scopes Trial. Fundamentalism was "making an impact," but after gaining a lot of power around the turn of the century it was content with effecting political change instead of changing people.

[pastor's wife]

@Lizzy F., I've heard people complain about Christians doing poor work, which always astounds me. BJU instilled in many of us a desire for excellence, to do our absolutely best. (Unfortunately, that desire then often comes along with an air of superiority or pride which is extremely off-putting to others.)

I agree with IFB No More that Christians have isolated themselves too much from the world instead of making an impact on it. I had never connected that separatism with the idea of the exaltation of the role of pastor, but it's a good point -- when you uphold "full-time Christian ministry" as the ultimate in devotion to God, it does create almost a "caste-system" Christianity, which is so opposed to the image in the Bible of the body, all of whose parts work together and are equally important. When the pastor is seen as a dictator and the "Big Boss", no wonder people are drawn to that sense of authority and power. Those who want to be pastors for the power then focus the lives of their people on the building and the programs of the church, ending up with people spending all their time at church functions. Instead, Christians need to be in our community, living and being alongside others instead of isolating ourselves behind the walls of our church. I don't see that I have to give up my conservatism in order to do that however!

[Lizzy F.]

(02-16-2011 10:25 AM)Donb123 Wrote:  Your assessment is not really anymore correct than the traditional interpretation you're complaining about. People are a mix of good and bad- Christians included. I've always been amazed to read for example the biography of Gen. Robert E. Lee who was by all accounts a fantastic Christian yet who kept slaves.

I only used Columbus as an example. I didn't vilify all the people who came here to the U.S, only him. I used him because the curriculum I had growing showed him to be a faithful man of God. His actions killed millions of people.

Would you say that history was judging Hitler (who wrote about his Christian faith in Mein Kampf), that Hitler was a "mix of good and bad"?

Quote:I'm as appalled at the modern tendencies towards continually apology and demonization of the totality of our past as I am toward the glorification and whitewashing of our entire past. [/quote

I didn't do this, but I know what you're talking about.

The only way to combat this is to have a decent knowledge of history so that we can make specific statements about specific people/events/places/things/etc. Kind of like what you did with Robert E. Lee and what I did Columbus.

[quote]... and I generally agree with all the other stuff you said

[Lizzy F.]

(02-16-2011 08:41 AM)pastors wife Wrote:  @Lizzy F., I've heard people complain about Christians doing poor work, which always astounds me. BJU instilled in many of us a desire for excellence, to do our absolutely best. (Unfortunately, that desire then often comes along with an air of superiority or pride which is extremely off-putting to others.)

I was very blessed to have three music teachers at Secular-U who were strong Christians and who pushed us to do our best work. They were a refreshing antithesis to the stereotype. Two of them graduated from Christian colleges. They were also astounded and found the sloppy work very frustrating.