Disgusting.

[bean]

No, because we both know that people that have certain skills, knowledge, and abilities have things of value.
The big question is how much is that value. I think it's disingenuous to make the argument that we should all make 10 bucks an hour because it's a bit oversimplified.

Can you make a valid case for why a CEO needs to make 400 times what a line worker makes? Is their knowledge really worth 400 times what the other guy makes?

Let's say that a factory worker is making 50,000 with salary and benefits. Not bad, right?
I can see 400k for the CEO.
I'm having trouble with 20 million.

[Darrell]

Quote:Can you make a valid case for why a CEO needs to make 400 times what a line worker makes? Is their knowledge really worth 400 times what the other guy makes?

So what about 300x?

or 50x?

or 38.76x?

The fact is that in order to try to regulate that kind of "fairness" you open the door to a bunch of other unpleasantness that I'd rather not deal with in a free society. So I'm content to let the "fatcats" have their pay and create jobs by spending it on all the toys that fatcats love to play with.

I'm just not that envious.

[bean]

We're doing fine with two teacher salaries and a plethora of odd jobs I find myself taking on.
But it wasn't so 14 years ago. We were employed in ND as teachers. I was a teacher/coach/bus driver and was working from 7 am to 430 PM "part time" making 20 grand a year. This after five years of experience. We racked up bills that we are just got paid off in the past two years. We had to charge food. We had no assistance, and I can assure you it wasn't from us living "high on the hog."

I feel for the people who are getting a crappy deal more than anything else. And yeah, we moved and they can too. We're doing a lot better in a state that values what it pays teachers. But a lot of times it isn't possible.

I also see day in and day out the impacts of poverty and working class poverty in the kids that fill my rooms. They deserve better. And we can do better as a society. The whole mindset is fouled up. We have a sugar factory in our area that chose to lock out good solid workers who had been with them for over 20, sometimes 25 years because they couldn't come to terms on a contract. (At one factory alone they made the company one million dollars in one day two winters ago) They wanted the union gone so they could start paying disposable worker wages. They broke the union.

Is that where we are going in this country?

[lucrezaborgia]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/...?fb=optOut

What about a situation like this?

These companies will have no one to sell their products to in America if they keep racing to the bottom to cut costs. There are plenty of companies that manage to treat employees well while still thriving. Why is it assumed that the cut-throat way is the only way to do business? As to Darrell's thing about raising the burger 50 cents. I'm OK with paying that if it means workers will stay employed. Talk to people in countries with high taxes. They are OK with the higher costs because they know what it's like the other way. Their systems aren't perfect (no system is) but they don't have the huge income gaps that are becoming more apparent here.

We can't all work service and retail jobs. We can't all be high-powered executives. Can our country survive with all our manufacturing being shipped overseas so that companies can raise their share price by $1?

[myotch]

Perhaps, and this is just a little bitty maybe, but does every kid need a college education? Do half? Is college - the debt involved, the government grants given to make sure most every kid is given an opportunity - worth it when most jobs don't require a college education?

Manufacturing jobs could stay here if the workers weren't so laden with student loans that they insist on a higher wage just to make their minimum student loan payments.

[bean]

No, they don't. Speaking as a high school teacher, I know many who need to be trained to go into the workforce.
But by and large, if the kid has some ability the real path to a decent middle class life is at least two years of tech school or 4 years of college.
Kids with a 4 year college degree will make WAY more over the course of a lifetime than someone with just high school.

I've seen it first hand. The kids that went right to work right after high school in 1987...I thought they had it made, they were making a whopping 8 bucks an hour and driving nice pickups...and I was busting my rear to get through school and was poor as shit. Well, guess what. 25 years later they aren't making a whole lot more, and their jobs skills allow for very little mobility. Some lucked out but most are still busting theirs for what is now probably 12 or 13 an hour. I have been lucky to find a job that takes my talents, skills, ability, and love of being around people and translate it into a job that has progressively paid better over the years.

When I was a college junior I was ready to quit. I was newly married, broke as crap, and stressed. The local service station/farm co-op was needing a full time shop person. I was ready to jump all over 9 bucks an hour plus benefits. Luckily for me, the manager and the board chair saw what was best...instead of offering me full time, they offered me a part time job if I stayed in college. They valued me and my talents (I had worked there before, in high school)..but wanted what was best for me.

I kind of shudder to think how that one decision could have cost me a career I love and a middle class lifestyle that would have been forever pegged to 13 bucks an hour. Very thankful for those two guys right now, they were looking out for me...