What is it with fundies and hating Catholics?

[myotch]

Don't forget that the disciples of John the Baptist tried to reproach Jesus for drinking. I'm thinking it probably is an accurate lineage.

[JeseC]

(07-26-2012 01:09 PM)Sophie Wrote:  IFB's are the one true church, remember? We can trace our lineage all the way back to John the BAPTIST (see, he was the first Baptist, haymen?) and the Catholics try to say they're the one true church because they can trace their lineage all the way back to Peter.

Also, the word "Catholic" means "universal" which clearly means that they are supporters of the One World Government.

Heresy! The Book of Revelation clearly teaches that there will be FOUR major powers in the end times, not ONE! Don't let that liberal Tim LaHaye deceive you with his unbiblical nonsense that's meant to appeal to itching ears!

(07-26-2012 01:37 PM)myotch Wrote:  Don't forget that the disciples of John the Baptist tried to reproach Jesus for drinking. I'm thinking it probably is an accurate lineage.

I am so glad, for my poor computer's sake, that I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.

[C_Fresh]

I tend to think the actual end time events are going to be vastly different than what we've been taught.

[Natalie]

Cuz they get to drink wine... In church even!

[Tiarali]

Remember, baptists claim to be descended from the only true Christians throughout history. They were persecuted. Who by? The Catholics.

There's a course I can do here that would enable me to teach in catholic schools. It explains all the catholic beliefs. I'm very curious - but it costs $900.

[That'sWhatItSays]

Fundies can't stand Catholicism because of Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Martyr's Mirror, The Dogmatic Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, the history of the Waldensians or the Vaudois, A Woman Rides the Beast, a future-based interpretation of Revelation 17, Matthew 23:9, Matthew 12:47-50, Ignatius de Loyola, etc...

Whether you concur that any of those are reasons to decry Catholicism is entirely up to you, but those are some of the reasons.

[bean]

yeah we had a fill in pastor for a while that said things like (referring to the illustration of his sermon) "he was a nice guy, a good catholic, but he didn't know the Lord." It was like he was making the point that Catholics were not in "the club."

I know lots of Catholics and many of them have a faith that is an amazing example. All of them are human beings and are trying to get through life, just like me!

Jack Chick had a special fondness for Catholics, too. A lot of anti catholic bigotry. Yuck.

(07-26-2012 09:47 AM)JeseC Wrote:  I've been wondering about this. Now fundies aren't that big on anyone else, but my church at least seemed to have a special hatred for the Catholic church. Generally this hatred was bolstered by a rather large amount of misinformation that was held to be absolutely true, despite any comments from any actual Catholics or people who talk to them.

Does anyone know what it is with this?

[Historian]

(07-26-2012 03:58 PM)tiarali Wrote:  Remember, baptists claim to be descended from the only true Christians throughout history. They were persecuted. Who by? The Catholics.

There's a course I can do here that would enable me to teach in catholic schools. It explains all the catholic beliefs. I'm very curious - but it costs $900.

Tiarali nailed it.

This is the root of their hatred. They have a lot of differences with a lot of people. As a Reformed Presbyterian, I've come in for plenty of hatred and vitriol from fundies my whole life. But they do indeed have a special hatred for Catholics.

In their insane historical revisionism, they believe they began with the apostles, lasted for about 300 years in perfect Baptism form, then Constantine legalized Christianity and BOOM! Everyone became Roman Catholic and started burning and hacking limbs off of Baptists.

They view the Catholics as kind of the "original enemy." The first perverters of truth and the ones who drove them into hiding. (Where they somehow miraculously survived for centuries without leaving the slightest historical trace, and without a Bible I might add (for the KJV only-ers). Then they began to pop up when things got really nasty prior to the Reformation, because of course the Waldenses were Baptists, and the Anabaptists were Baptists. At this point the reformation protestant churches also began persecuting them, so they hate them too, but not as much as the original enemy.

I posted in another thread the kind of heretical nuts the Anabaptists were, with extensive quotes about their hysterical naked wanderings through the street, their tendancy to incite populations to riot and rebellion, their thefts, polygamy, etc. That's the primary reason the Anabaptists were persecuted–not their wanting to baptise differently. They were anarchists, Communists, polygamists and despised all authority–including the lawful rulers of their cities/towns/etc. It was only after being beat down in every town they tried these things in that they started becoming pacificst. But I digress.

I also have a theory, only theory, that many Baptists hate Catholics for the same reason that a habitual liar will be incensed when someone lies to him. Baptists teach that Catholicism is salvation by works. They repudiate this, but refuse to see that they are the ones truly teaching salvation by works. You are saved by your work of praying the sinnners prayer, and the sincerity of that work. Jesus barely enters into it, except as having kind of cracked open the door. It's up to you to kick it open and walk through.

You don't have purgatory in the Baptist theology after death, but you have a kind of purgatory in life. You spend your whole life working to please God and erase your sins, while expecting to be miserable all the time. You believe that God is out to get you in this life. If you're having fun, you're sinning. If you don't like heat, God will make you a missionary to the Sudan. If you don't want to marry George, God will force you to marry George. If you slip and say "I can't live without my family," God will destroy them all in a fiery highway explosion.

The Baptists are incensed with their concept of the Pope; but they put themselves under a thousand little popes–each one with the authority to command every aspect of their lives.

Baptists get all worked up about Catholicism from some centuries back refusing to translate the Bible into the common tongues so that everyone could read it; and forbidding many to read it at all. They also think that all Catholics are told they shouldn't read the Bible, but let the priest tell them what it says. (I'm not sure what the current Catholic position is on that, but I do know a few folks who grew up Catholic who claim that their family Bible as children was up on some mantle, but not accessible really, and that they were discouraged from reading it.) But regardless, that's exactly what Baptists are now doing with their KJV nonesense: withholding God's word from the common person. They do encourage people to read it, true, but they still have their "priest" do all the interpreting.

So that second is just a theory, but from my experience with them it seems to me that–in addition to their historical ideas–feeds the Baptist hatred.

[That'sWhatItSays]

As a Reformed Presbyterian, you could also discuss the historical Reformed opinion that the Mass is the "cup of devils". From the Heidelberg Catechism of 1563:

"Question 80. What difference is there between the Lord's supper and the popish mass?

Answer: The Lord's supper testifies to us, that we have a full pardon of all sin by the only sacrifice of Jesus Christ, which he himself has once accomplished on the cross; (a) and, that we by the Holy Ghost are ingrafted into Christ, (b) who, according to his human nature is now not on earth, but in heaven, at the right hand of God his Father, © and will there be worshipped by us. (d) But the mass teaches, that the living and dead have not the pardon of sins through the sufferings of Christ, unless Christ is also daily offered for them by the priests; and further, that Christ is bodily under the form of bread and wine, and therefore is to be worshipped in them; so that the mass, at bottom, is nothing else than a denial of the one sacrifice and sufferings of Jesus Christ, and an accursed idolatry. (e)"

I can't believe the responses here. It almost sounds like a Catholic apologetics board. Yes, the IFB is full of nutjobs, egotists, and poor historical understanding. That doesn't make Catholicism a reasonable alternative! Baptists only ACT like the preacher is the voice of God; the Catholics have codified the position! Yes, I'm aware that there are Catholics on the board, don't mean to offend, but facts are facts. The Reformed (not just Baptist) position has always held that the Catholic Institution represented a great departure from the faith in a number of ways.

[Scorpio]

(07-27-2012 06:53 AM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote:  I can't believe the responses here. It almost sounds like a Catholic apologetics board. Yes, the IFB is full of nutjobs, egotists, and poor historical understanding. That doesn't make Catholicism a reasonable alternative! Baptists only ACT like the preacher is the voice of God; the Catholics have codified the position! Yes, I'm aware that there are Catholics on the board, don't mean to offend, but facts are facts. The Reformed (not just Baptist) position has always held that the Catholic Institution represented a great departure from the faith in a number of ways.

Yeah. Sorry if some of us have beliefs that don't line up with your beliefs and we have come to a position of faith and that doesn't mesh with your faith. But since you have the facts I guess we should just throw out everything we have come to believe.
Funny thing how facts can be used by anyone to claim the truth. This cuts both ways. I do not know or understand everything. I just know where I am right now in my faith.