What's so bad about Satan?

[Zadig]

Ignoring all the non-Biblical anti-Satan media, what, according to the Bible, is so bad about Satan?

Did he kill anyone? Rape anyone? Cause any natural disasters? Create Hell?

Jehovah is the one who flooded the Earth, killing damn near everyone. He's the one who takes great pride in tempting others to do wrong (i.e. Abraham and Isaac, Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). He accepts human sacrifices (i.e. Jepthah's daughter). He allowed Elisha, his man on the ground, to command bears to kill children. He was angry with Moses because his men allowed the Mideanite women and children to live. He created a child with a human woman for the purpose of having him suffer a brutal (albeit temporary) death. He encouraged countless wars.

Jesus said, by your fruits you shall know them. The fruits of Jehovah were Noah, who got drunk, stripped off all his clothes, passed out, then cursed his own child's entire race just because he witnessed it. David, the murderer/adulterer. Solomon, the guy with 700 wives and 300 mistresses. Abraham, a complete screw up who gave his wife to another man and slept with his maid (thereby creating the Islamic race).

You ever think the real litmus test of the Bible is to judge Jehovah by his own standards? Or better yet, by yours? How can a moral person worship such a vile god? Why not just worship Satan? He has a much better record. In the Garden of Eden (assuming the serpent is Satan) he's the one who tells Adam and Eve the truth, that eating the fruit will open their eyes so they might know good from evil. Isn't that something decent people want their children to know? Why would a good god want to hide this information? The serpent's the one who tells them that Jehovah's claim that they will die if they eat the fruit, isn't true, and it turns out it's not. Everything he tells them turns out to be true, proving Jehovah the liar. Isn't this some kind of gigantic clue right at the beginning of the story to signal the reader that Jehovah is really the bad guy and Satan the good guy?

[Darrell]

Ah, I was wondering how long it would take the facade of reasonable dialog to break down.

Angry Atheist, cleanup on aisle 1!

[exOBCstudent]

I've heard this argument before made by Lucifarianists. They usually don't believe in using the name "Satan" though.

[Darrell]

My weariness stems not so much from the fact that that I disagree with the post (although I do) but that it's completely unoriginal and not at all clever. If we're ever going to have an actual conversation we have to get rid of the "gotcha" debating points that build straw men and distort the views of those we disagree with.

But instead of reasonable dialog, this is most like reading a mashup of cut and pasted YouTube comments. The only real response in kind is to scream back "Atheism turns people into Hitler!" and then make a bunch of insinuations that atheists eat their own children. It's tiresome. And it's pointless.

[FmrMarine]

(06-27-2012 07:31 AM)Darrell Wrote:  My weariness stems not so much from the fact that that I disagree with the post (although I do) but that it's completely unoriginal and not at all clever. If we're ever going to have an actual conversation we have to get rid of the "gotcha" debating points that build straw men and distort the views of those we disagree with.

But instead of reasonable dialog, this is most like reading a mashup of cut and pasted YouTube comments. The only real response in kind is to scream back "Atheism turns people into Hitler!" and then make a bunch of insinuations that atheists eat their own children. It's tiresome. And it's pointless.

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without religious foundation is built on air; consequently all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . ." -Adolf Hitler

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." - Adolf Hitler

[Darrell]

Quote:"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without religious foundation is built on air; consequently all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . ." -Adolf Hitler

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." - Adolf Hitler

You obviously missed the point of what I was saying.

[Zadig]

(06-27-2012 07:10 AM)Darrell Wrote:  Ah, I was wondering how long it would take the facade of reasonable dialog to break down.

Angry Atheist, cleanup on aisle 1!

It's a serious question if one can put their emotions aside long enough to answer objectively. How can an honest person look at the actions of Jehovah throughout the Bible and still come to the conclusion that Satan is the villain in the book?

[Darrell]

Quote:How can an honest person look at the actions of Jehovah throughout the Bible and still come to the conclusion that Satan is the villain in the book?

How can an honest person not?

(now it's your turn to repeat yourself again)

[myotch]

Hitler is the atheist Satan, and probably more mythologized.

[myotch]

(06-27-2012 08:48 AM)Zadig Wrote:  It's a serious question if one can put their emotions aside long enough to answer objectively. How can an honest person look at the actions of Jehovah throughout the Bible and still come to the conclusion that Satan is the villain in the book?

A rhetorical question is not a serious question. Yours is a leading question, to boot.