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~~Zadig~~ · 06-25-2012, 07:50 PM

This story makes no sense. Lot offers his "virgin" daughters to rapists, then later gets drunk and screws both of them, but God chooses to let him live. Meanwhile he turns Lot's wife into a pillar of salt (what a bizarre thing to do) because she turned her head and destroys two cities because of their arrogance and their unwillingness to help the poor and needy.

So are we to learn from this story that incest is more desirable than arrogance and selfishness?

AmazedByGrace · 06-26-2012, 02:01 AM

Well, I'm disappointed. I was hoping to get the answer to the question here! I recently heard a theologian state something to the effect that God obviously graded "on the curve" for Lot. Is it possible that there is something very important in that story that got lost in the translation, or something? And correct me if I'm wrong--doesn't Lot make the Hebrews 11 chapter? (My eyes are not doing well tonight, so I can't look it up right now.) And then Lot was violated by his own daughters? Were these the same "virgin" daughters that he was willing to give up to the mob? Their dad was the first man they had sex with? Wow, so much in the story I don't understand but I also know that "without faith it is impossible to please him." There has got to be something that I just don't get.

elfdream · (This post was last modified: 06-26-2012 06:52 AM by elfdream.)

First of all this story foes not exist in a vacuum. An immersion into Jewish culture and how they interpreted it would be helpful for they were they intended audience.

We tend to think of these girls as innocents but we must remember where they grew up. Depravity was rampant and the norm. Hospitality was apparently of supreme importance. Guests were protected at all costs. The inhabitants broke the social norm by demanding that Lot hand them over. The offer of his daughters was his attempt to show his guests that he was doing his best to keep the customs. He probably knew perfectly well that his offer would be refused and this was also in a time when women had no say over who they had sex with. You will marry this person...you will spend the night with this man. That was the culture. We can't pick on just this culture because that has existed in some form or other in a countless others and just because a story was recorded that doesn't mean that God approved of what happened.

Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt was not because of a quick glance back. It was her desire to return to that place and way of life.

Lot was spared because at some point he repented.

The children of this union became Ammon and Moab whose descendants plagued Israel for centuries. Lot was spared but his actions had far reaching consequences but interestingly enough he also became an ancestor of Jesus through the Moabite woman Ruth.

06-26-2012, 07:21 AM

Why does God save anyone?

That'sWhatItSays · 06-26-2012, 07:45 AM

Peter calls Lot a righteous man in the New Testament. Apparently, the "vexation" of Lot's soul with the stuff going on in Sodom was enough to merit God's favor.

But I agree with Bob M. We all need saving, so why pick on Lot? Today, we are all examples of Lot. Fallen men living in a decadent age who are tainted with sin just as much as the next guy. We should be thankful for salvation, not bitter because of what's going on "over there" or judging things before their time.

06-26-2012, 08:01 AM

(06-26-2012 07:45 AM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Peter calls Lot a righteous man in the New Testament. Apparently, the "vexation" of Lot's soul with the stuff going on in Sodom was enough to merit God's favor.

But I agree with Bob M. We all need saving, so why pick on Lot? Today, we are all examples of Lot. Fallen men living in a decadent age who are tainted with sin just as much as the next guy. We should be thankful for salvation, not bitter because of what's going on "over there" or judging things before their time.

To me, that is the biggest question I have ever dealt with. Once I understood the Bible on that, my theology fell into place.

FmrMarine · 06-26-2012, 02:59 PM

(06-26-2012 07:45 AM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Peter calls Lot a righteous man in the New Testament. Apparently, the "vexation" of Lot's soul with the stuff going on in Sodom was enough to merit God's favor.

But I agree with Bob M. We all need saving, so why pick on Lot? Today, we are all examples of Lot. Fallen men living in a decadent age who are tainted with sin just as much as the next guy. We should be thankful for salvation, not bitter because of what's going on "over there" or judging things before their time.

With all due respect, don't paint me with your broad sinning brush. I am not a fallen man living in a decadent age. There is simply no evidence for that as a true statement.

06-26-2012, 03:01 PM

(06-26-2012 02:59 PM)FmrMarine Wrote:
(06-26-2012 07:45 AM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Peter calls Lot a righteous man in the New Testament. Apparently, the "vexation" of Lot's soul with the stuff going on in Sodom was enough to merit God's favor.

But I agree with Bob M. We all need saving, so why pick on Lot? Today, we are all examples of Lot. Fallen men living in a decadent age who are tainted with sin just as much as the next guy. We should be thankful for salvation, not bitter because of what's going on "over there" or judging things before their time.

With all due respect, don't paint me with your broad sinning brush. I am not a fallen man living in a decadent age. There is simply no evidence for that as a true statement.

You are entitled to your opinion. But this is a Christian site, and I think the majority of people here use the Bible as a valid reference, and it says that you are a sinner.

~~Zadig~~ · (This post was last modified: 06-26-2012 03:10 PM by Zadig.)

(06-26-2012 06:36 AM)elfdream Wrote: We tend to think of these girls as innocents but we must remember where they grew up. Depravity was rampant and the norm. Hospitality was apparently of supreme importance. Guests were protected at all costs. The inhabitants broke the social norm by demanding that Lot hand them over. The offer of his daughters was his attempt to show his guests that he was doing his best to keep the customs. He probably knew perfectly well that his offer would be refused and this was also in a time when women had no say over who they had sex with. You will marry this person...you will spend the night with this man. That was the culture. We can't pick on just this culture because that has existed in some form or other in a countless others and just because a story was recorded that doesn't mean that God approved of what happened.

Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt was not because of a quick glance back. It was her desire to return to that place and way of life.

Lot was spared because at some point he repented.

The problem with most of that, is you're just making it up. Nowhere does it say he repented. Nowhere does it say his wife did anything other than look back. Nowhere does it say his virgin daughters were previously depraved. In fact they obviously weren't or they would have been destroyed with the rest of the citizens.

~~Zadig~~ · 06-26-2012, 03:15 PM

(06-26-2012 02:01 AM)AmazedByGrace Wrote: Well, I'm disappointed. I was hoping to get the answer to the question here! I recently heard a theologian state something to the effect that God obviously graded "on the curve" for Lot.

Well he seemed to do that a lot I guess. For Noah the drunk, Abraham who gave his wife to another man, Elisha the child killer, David the murderer/adulterer, Solomon the playboy. On the other hand he didn't seem to mind Moses ordering the slaughter of innocent women and children and instructing his soldiers to keep the virgins for themselves.