Can You Still Be Considered a Christian and Not be supportive of Israel?

[BASSENCO]

(02-09-2011 03:57 PM)Lizzy F. Wrote:  Yes.

I don't support Israel.

neither do I. I support Christians, including Palestinian Christians, over any government.

[Darrell]

Since we do not become Christians by supporting Israel it seems illogical that not supporting Israel would make one not a Christian.

[Darcy]

Yes. I don't "support" Israel. Whatever that means.
I'm a Preterist.

[Tooktheredpill]

Personally, I don't buy into Christian Zionism, because I'm not a dispensationalist. However, I have observed that some people go from one extreme (ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people) to another extreme (collective anti-Semitism). Having extensively studied the Holocaust (and the persecution preceding the Holocaust), I definitely can understand why there was a need for a Jewish state.

A book that presents a compelling secular case for the existence of Israel is The Case for Israel by Dershowitz. I don't agree with it all, but it does highlight some issues that are often ignored by the media.

[exIFB]

I'm a dispensationalist and I don't support Israel. What I do support is the separation between the Mystery program for the Church and the Prophetic program for Israel.

Most of what passes for dispensationalism in IFB circles is nothing more than science fiction. They focus on minor aspects and elevate them to be the be all and end all of dispensationalism. Unfortunately, most people think dispensationalism is about waiting for a rapture.

IFB preachers wouldn't know dispensationalism from a peanut. They preach some distinctives, such as a rapture, but then they go and use all these OT law verses to promote their particular brand of works righteousness. And they talk about believers being judged for their sins and all kinds of rubbish. They say things like "Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel" and use verses intended only for Israel which is the complete opposite of dispensationalism. The MAIN distinctive of dispensationalism is the absolute seperation of the Church and Israel as it stands in scripture.

[Elijah Craig]

(02-09-2011 03:38 PM)Smith Wrote:  What do you folks think? Can you still be considered a Christian and not be a supporter of Israel at the same time?

Yes.

[Darren]

As to the question: Yes. The modern state of Israel is made up of Jews, Palestinians, and people from all over the world. It is also made up of people who follow Judaism, Islam and Christianity. I am a dispensationalist, but to say that the state of Israel is one and the same with the Jewish nation of prophecy is to do damage to what the prophecy means. How do we know how long God is planning to wait? The modern state of Israel could be wiped off the earth and it would do nothing to change God's plan.

All that being said, Israel is the only democratic state in the region, and most of the people want to be left alone to live in peace. When the Muslim extremists renounce their weapons, there will be peace. When Israel renounces its weapons, there will be no more Israel. I don't expect to see either happen any time soon.

[chris1000bc]

(02-09-2011 05:03 PM)JimE Wrote:  ...
God disciplined Israel numerous times. The countries used by God to punish Israel were doing God's will.
...
I am doing God's will for my life.

I agree that in a sense those countries were doing God's will, but God still punished them for their pride and evil motives. I am not sure what you are saying exactly, but surely you do not mean that you are doing God's will in the same sense that they were?


To answer the main question: sure.

[Apathetic or whatever]

I used to be a rabid supporter of Israel. After getting familiar with the situation it became clear to me that the State of Israel is in the wrong. I am not pro-Palestinian per se. I am pro-democracy and anti-racism and anti-theft so that puts me on the side of the Palestinians. I would be pro-Israeli if the situation were reversed.

I find it hard to support Israel because they obviously want the land east of the Green Line but they refuse to extend any civil rights to the native inhabitants of the land. It is difficult to call your country a democracy when you do not extend the basic rights to a large group of people because of their ethnicity and religion. They want the land but not the people living there, hence the slow ethnic cleansing of the occupied territories.

Some of what I believe is based on Christianity, some of it is universal morality:
1. Mass punishment is wrong. People are suffering and being killed because of their ethnicity, not their actions. Israel currently operates a huge, open-air concentration camp in the Gaza strip.
2. Theft of land is wrong. For every Israeli settlement that goes up Palestinian farmers have to be displaced without compensation.
3. Racism is wrong. People are being expelled from a land they have lived on for two millenia because the state doesn't want "their kind". To forcibly confiscate a peoples land and then not offer them even basic civil rights is grotesque.

I support the right of Israel to exist within the 1967 boundaries. I support the right of the Palestinians to have an equitable settlement and full sovreignty.

Most times the mixture of politics and religion gives bad results. In the case of Fundies' love of all things Israeli, they have lost sight of basic truths of the Bible and are supporting actions they would never support were they committed by any other country.

I do not believe that the Bible requires me to support a certain political establishment to be a Christian.

[JimE]

(02-09-2011 06:27 PM)Smith Wrote:  

(02-09-2011 05:03 PM)JimE Wrote:  This is tough to answer because who is doing the considering? If God is doing the considering, the answer is yes.
God disciplined Israel numerous times. The countries used by God to punish Israel were doing God's will. I consider my lack of unconditional support of Israel to be consistant with my Christian faith. The government of Israel receives no bias from me due to my faith. I am doing God's will for my life.

Jim,
I didn't ask God, I asked those who use this board. Also, I have to point out that you are assuming that the Israel of today is the Israel of Abraham...it's not. As a matter of fact, God sorta bitch-slapped Israel in 70 A.D. and Israel's never recovered. As a matter of fact, if your unconditional support of Israel is consistent with your faith, you might do well to examine your faith...modern/political Israel pulled their present day land out from under the Palestinian's feet and are in the process of running perhaps the biggest ghetto on the planet...the Gaza Strip. Search Youtube...you will see Israelie tanks running over children, people being shot "just because" and the entire population being starved out of existence because the Israeli government believes the Palestinian population is "Moab". Is starving out other Christians consistent with your Christian faith? Kinda puts you and those like you in a conundrum: "obey" the Scriptures by "blessing" Israel while at the same time disobeying the Scritpure by not supporting a Palestinian Christian. What is it about Evangelicalism that is comfortable with cognitive dissonance? How can you support an atheistic country who's only interest in Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christians is that of an enabler? The only passage you can pull out of your bible is "I will bless those who bless thee and curse those who curse thee"....the problem is, "thee" is Abraham, not the bunch who migrated from Central Europe. Lastly, how do deal with splitting your worship between Israel/Jews and God? You may want to revisit Romans 4 for the proper definition of a Jew.

I suspect that you have a passion about this issue. Good.
Please carefully re-read what I wrote. I think that there has been a misunderstanding.