Spiritual warfare?

[Lady Julian]

As an INTJ, I tend to see the world rationally and believe that illness is generally caused by germs and cured by doctors. Other incidents can be explained by psychological stress. I don't believe that extensive spiritual warfare is something we in the 21st century have to live with. But a lot of people with whom I am friends and with whom I live DO believe in spiritual warfare and see some (not all) illnesses and psychological struggles as direct attacks of spiritual forces.

I'd be curious where other believers fall on the spectrum, with "Frank Peretti" on one end and "rationalist" on the other.

[notdrinkingthekoolaid]

I believe the answer is...yes.

Some things can be explained by physical or psychological means. You don't eat or sleep well regularly and chances are good that you will get sick. Bills piling up without enough means to pay them? Stress.

But I think there are also other things at play that can't be seen. I look at the book of Job and clearly there were spiritual forces that affected the turn of events in his life, but I'm not sure that there are angels and demons lurking about ready to fight over me at any given second.

So my answer is...yes.

[myotch]

I'm historically INTJ. After fundy school and college, I just really don't want to take personality tests again.

Though I generally agree with germs causing disease and medicine helping eradicate it, I also think there are other factors - stress, guilt, attitude, pessimism - that have been more or less scientifically shown to contribute to physiological symptoms, lower immunity or take away from "long life".

Given the definition of "spiritual", I see no reason to write off spirituality or even spiritual warfare in regards to the wellness of a person. We use the idiom "he's at war with himself" in regards to, say, a drug addict, or "she's a fighter" about a woman in a coma who should, by medical reasoning, be dead.

Some of us - especially fundies and former fundies - tend to think of spiritual warfare necessarily meaning the angels and demons in actual combat around us somewhere in the ether, or in some different dimension that overlaps our own. I don't think this is necessarily helpful in understanding spirituality.

[JimE]

INTP here,

I think that the "spiritual attack" defense is over used as an excuse to protect one's intellect from discovering the real causes of undesired events and results. It is a form of denial. It is also a form of egotistic thought processes, e.g. I am so special in God's eyes that Satan must be attacking me.

I think Job was a special case, just as I believe that many characters in the Bible like Moses, Noah, Jacob, John, Isaiah, Peter, and Paul are special cases. I think that spiritual attacks are real, but rare. Examples in the Bible are typically short in duration. Job's case is a little longer than most. If God is in control enough to limit the effect of these attacks, then the attacks will strengthen us and cause the relationship with God to grow. If the "spiritual attack" defeats and discourages you, the causes are probably not a "spiritual attack". The focus of the Christian file is not warding off "spiritual attacks" but rather overcoming evil in the world by living out the love of God.

[briceman]

Well, this question largely has to do with one's eschatology.

Being an orthodox preterist, postmillenialist, I believe that Satan's "power" has been largely diminished, and will continue to be more diminished. I believe that before Christ, Satan (still under the Sovereign power of God) had the ability to "deceive the nations" and now, post-Christ, and post-cross Satan no longer holds that power. I think the spiritual battle that goes on in someone is largely due to a sinful nature that surpresses the law that is written on every man (and woman's) heart.

[leaving]

I believe in spiritual warfare but not really in sickness. I believe if you are sick or injured it's probably because you got the wrong bacteria or cancerous cells or were in the wrong place at the wrong time and got hurt. But I believe in spiritual warfare in other contexts.

[Phatchick]

I think spiritual warfare can exist, just not in the way fundies look at it. IME, anytime anything goes wrong in a fundy's life it's Satan or his minions, wether it's getting sick with the flu or a flat tire. In the real world, "rain falls on the just and unjust", for instance, there was nothing spiritual about the fire we had. It happened because we had a very old dryer that decided to go teats up. I try not to assign spiritual blame to anything that clearly has a natural reason.

[co_heir]

I believe that Jesus has already tied the strong man up and ransacked his house, satan just doesn't realize it yet. I think there are spiritual forces, but many times they present themselves in ways that are different from the demon possession that we usually think of. Paul said that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but powers in the spiritual realm. The stuff we see the powers that be doing seems to be influenced by the spiritual powers. We can be influenced by satan and his demons, but we also have the authority to tell him where to go. I think that some folks give the devil way too much credit and blame him for stuff that they are responsible for. I believe that it was Luther who said that one of the best ways to handle the devil is to mock him.

[Bob M]

I believe that the kingdom of God is already/not yet here. It is already here. It is not yet here. There are aspects of the supernatural evil world that we cannot see and cannot control. But much of the world is explainable in simple scientific ways.