Are you 100% sure if you died today that you would be in heaven?

[oneflewoutofthecuckcoosnest]

I don't think anyone can be 100% sure they will go to heaven when they die since no one can be 100% sure there is a heaven. We can only believe in faith. Objective certainty isn't possible as much as fundys want it.

[RobMille]

I never in my life understood the idea of "making sure". They would regularly "get" people on that one when I was growing up, but it just seemed like the stupidest thing ever. If the only thing is to say the magic words in the prayer, there's not really any re-arrangement of those words that is going to be more confidence inspiring, and if it's not about the magic wording, then what is the point of a "making sure" prayer.

[oneflewoutofthecuckcoosnest]

(09-06-2011 09:31 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  

(09-06-2011 09:01 PM)oneflewoutofthecuckcoosnest Wrote:  I don't think anyone can be 100% sure they will go to heaven when they die since no one can be 100% sure there is a heaven. We can only believe in faith. Objective certainty isn't possible as much as fundys want it.

Certainly not if you're talking about the Scientific Method kind of sure, but there's other kinds of sure:

sure   [shoor, shur]
1.
free from doubt as to the reliability, character, action, etc., of something: to be sure of one's data.
2.
confident, as of something expected: sure of success.
3.
convinced, fully persuaded, or positive: to be sure of a person's guilt.
4.
assured or certain beyond question: a sure victory.
5.
worthy of confidence; reliable; stable: a sure messenger.

Subjective certainty is possible, but not objective. Someone can realistically have 100% subjective certainty that something is true if the thing in question cannot be verified or falsified. So some have 100% subjective certainty that ghosts exist. Some choose to have 100% subjective certainty on things that can be falsified (i.e. the earth is flat). Objective certainty has to do with what can be verified or falsified. Heaven does not fall into this category. This is why it is a matter of faith. When people say they are 100% sure they will go to heaven, they are saying they fully believe or have faith they will. They cannot mean that they have 100% objective certainty that they will go to heaven. That kind of certainty is not possible. Subjective certainty is important, but we have to concede that people with very different religious convictions from our own also often have 100% subjective certainty in their own beliefs.

[JordanMaria]

There needs to be an option "Once as a child and every time my pastor's rants guilted me into doing it again."

Seriously, I felt sick when I read this thread title. I really messes with you head to have everyone question your salvation but then turn around and tell you it's wrong and "your not really saved" when you question your own. Then there's the "well if you're doing THIS specific sin I'm ranting about today, you're probably not saved", or "if you're not hear every time the church doors are open, you're probably not saved", or "If you haven't gotten anyone saved in the last two days, you're probably not saved either." and on and on and on.

I finally realized that it's natural and healthy to question your salvation just as you should question everything around you. It gives you a chance to reevaluate your beliefs and find who you are.

[MKxcomm]

There was once a girl in our church who had some kind of disorder, but could keep up a relatively normal facade on good days. But all of these sermons about "Do you know that you know" and "if you struggle with xyz sin you're probably not saved" literally made her crazy. She'd pray literally all day when her husband was at work because she was so scared of hell. His family and her family begged the preacher to talk to her but he would never tell her anything that would make her assured of God's salvation (and I think he only visited her once). It got to be where she could never be alone and it eventually destroyed their marriage but he stuck with her for many, many years trying to get her help. Again, she definitely had some MAJOR issues she hid from him until after they married, but it got unbearable any time these frightening messages would be preached. I can't imagine living in such absolute terror.

[SpaceGhost]

You know I've been reading the Ante-Nicine Fathers and their sermons as well as the Didache and a few other things. I've noticed that the CONTENT of their sermons are and were NOTHING like the rubbish we hear today. As a matter of fact, there didn't seem to be any equivalent for the "if you died today..." question. No, the emphasis was more of a "hang tough" encouragement as well as a "live holy but mind your own business" message. There didn't seem to be this preaching against everything the man standing behind the pulpit didn't like socially or personally. Lastly, I have to question whether the early Church from 100 A.D. going forward used the Scriptures as a DYI manual or a springboard for tirades as is done today.

[Ataraxia]

A friend took me to Heaven nightclub in London, with me not knowing it was a gay club. Turned out the pretty girl I'd talked to was a man... very confusing. So, if you're referring to this heaven, I'd actually rather not go there when I die.

[HazelEyed]

(09-06-2011 07:12 PM)bean Wrote:  I was saved as a child, and then in my late 20s. Read a chick tract. (sorry, I had to admit it...) At a time in my life I was really in upheaval. Started listening to a lot of Christian radio, talk preachers all day...switched churches...the whole deal. After that, I probably thought during altar call "help me Lord, I recommit my life to you" about a dozen times.
A lot of guilt. Too much to bear.
I have OCD (have had it since childhood) and am pretty sure the guilt and heaviness set it off. Wound up on meds for a couple years. Realized that the constant guilt and wondering was NOT good for me.
The good news is the OCD has been pushed into remission. It was 2 years of meds, a little counselling, and a lot of self-counseling with books, and a crapload of running... Better now...and the running caused me to drop 65 pounds!
Today, I am thankful that the God that loves me loves me just who I am.

*waves* Hi there! I have OCD too, subtype scrupulosity! I'm glad to hear you're doing well with yours ... mine is okay now that I'm out of fundamentalism and keeping my stress levels low. Okay, but not exactly stellar. I am hoping to get a therapist this year and maybe try some meds, though, because the last few years have been really, really difficult at times, downright miserable at others. But all that is a step up from suicidal, which was the way it used to be when I was at BJU.