Transgender at 5 yo

[FindingMyWay]

(05-21-2012 08:41 AM)Jenni Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 08:27 AM)FindingMyWay Wrote:  The little boys play with kitchen stuff and the little girls play with trucks and no one cares - including the kids. Truthfully, if one of my sons told me they wanted to be a girl, I would expect it to be because the girls got to line up first for recess or something.

A cisgender child [a child whose internal gender and external gender match] might want to be a girl to get in line first, or might think that it's not fair that the girls line up first or whatever, but a transgender child will say "I am a boy/girl," not just "I wish I were a boy/girl." Many parents of trans children have mentioned finding their children attempting to cut off their "boy parts" with scissors or nail clippers, or covering their "girl parts" with a washcloth while showering or bathing because the kids don't understand why their bodies don't match what their brains are telling them.

This is not the same as a little girl who wants to play with trucks and guns or a boy who likes to play with dolls. Trans kids have an innate sense that something is not right with them.

I wasn't trying to say they were the same thing. I was saying that I spoke too quickly in my initial post because the kids I have experience with are the ones that don't, generally, seem to consciously pay attention to whether they're a boy or a girl. Whether that is because they are not self-aware enough or because there isn't a discrepancy between the outside and the inside so it just doesn't come out, that's my experience. I was just giving a frame of reference for my first thoughts on the matter.

[dramaturge]

So NRO had an article about this today. I actually read it. (I'll post the text below--it's worth reading the comments though to see how pervasive willful ignorance or misunderstanding of the topic is in the target audience.) Frankly, it's obvious to me the both the writer and the commentors (save one) have no understanding of the issues here. In fact, the writer seems openly skeptical of the very idea that someone could identify as a gender not reflected in their reproductive organs. One of the commentors apparently thinks that having gender identity disorder means you're gay: "As for this kid -- its ridiculous to let a 5-year old "change" their sexual identify. She's merely a little girl that's more action oriented than doll oriented. It doesn't mean she's gay." O.o.

Article text:

Quote:Transgender Five-Year-Old?
What decisions should small children be permitted to make?

By Mona Charen

A five-year-old child with large dark eyes, full lips, and a button nose stares out from the front page of the Washington Post Sunday edition. “Transgender at Five” declares the provocative headline. The child’s hair is being cut in a close, boy’s cut by her father.

We learn from the article that “Tyler,” who was born “Kathryn,” began insisting that she was a boy at the age of two. “‘I am a boy’ became a constant theme in struggles over clothing, bathing, swimming, eating, playing, breathing.” The child’s parents, at first uneasy and later accepting their girl’s desire to be a boy, agreed to raise her as a boy. Starting at age four, she began to wear boys’ clothes, was permitted to choose a boy’s name for herself, and has been introduced to family, friends, teachers, and fellow congregants at church as a boy.

Oh boy.

Let’s stipulate, for the sake of argument, that something called “gender dysphoria” — with which Tyler was diagnosed at age four — does exist. Let’s further agree, again for the sake of argument, that the proper treatment of this condition is choosing to live as the other sex, with all that such a radical decision implies. Is there any reasonable way to conclude that something as drastic as attempting to change one’s sexual identity can be undertaken by a four-year-old?

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“Parents who ignore or deny these problems,” warns the Post, “can make life miserable for their kids, who can become depressed or suicidal, psychiatrists say.” How many psychiatrists? The very most that can be said is that the practice of treating children for what is sometimes called “gender identity disorder” is highly controversial in the psychiatric world. Some psychiatrists want to change the name to “gender incongruence” to remove the word “disorder.” Others, like Dr. Paul McHugh, professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University, think the whole idea of treating children for this condition is unwise. “We shouldn’t be mucking around with nature,” he told Fox News. “We can’t assume what the outcome will be.”

Apparently, hormone blockers are being prescribed more and more for children with “GID.” The hormone blockers postpone puberty indefinitely and thus, the Post explains, “give the kids more time to decide who they are and whether switching genders is the answer to their problems.” Dr. McHugh calls giving hormone blockers to children “child abuse.” Some young people are having “gender reassignment” surgery as early as age 16.

Perhaps some tiny percentage of children truly are born to feel trapped in the body of a person of the wrong sex. But it is undeniable that the vast majority of children go through stages. I recall wishing to be a boy myself when I was about five or six. I didn’t like frilly dresses and asked my playmates to call me “Timmy.” Perhaps mine was a normal tomboy phase and maybe that’s distinguishable from what Tyler is experiencing. But how can we be sure? The Post quotes Dr. Edgardo Menvielle, of the Children’s National Medical Center in Washington, D.C., who has been treating “transgender kids” for a decade. About 80 percent, he says, switch back to the gender they were born into by the time they reach adulthood.

The problem with the Post’s recommended approach — which amounts to “let’s accept a child’s version of reality to avoid causing depression or worse” — is that the decision of parents to indulge a child’s whim on gender identity is itself irreversible. The effects of hormone blockers, the Post reassures readers, are fully reversible. Maybe. How much research can there have been on such a new practice? Would parents who hesitate to let their kids eat preservatives or non-organic eggs consent to block the complex hormones that begin to flood kids’ bodies at puberty? In any case, the decision to dress a girl in boys’ clothing, cut her hair, and call her a boy — even if reversed later — must, absolutely must, scramble a child’s psyche. Imagine the confrontation between a teenaged girl who has changed her mind and the parents who raised her as a boy. “Did you not think I was pretty enough to be a girl? Wasn’t I feminine enough?” Or, perhaps even more damaging, a teenaged boy demanding to know whether his father thought him lacking in masculinity as a child. It’s a psychological minefield.

We have the technology to make — or at least appear to make — women into men and vice versa. If adults choose to do this to themselves (and can afford it), that’s their business. But a child? One wonders: What other major life decisions should four-year-olds be judged competent to make?

— Mona Charen is a nationally syndicated columnist. © 2012 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

[Naomi]

(05-22-2012 03:10 PM)dramaturge Wrote:  Frankly, it's obvious to me the both the writer and the commentors (save one) have no understanding of the issues here.

Gah. So true. Very ignorant of what gender is, what being trans is, and what various treatment options are. Her writing all this misinformation is not helping transgender adults or children!

Quote:In any case, the decision to dress a girl in boys’ clothing, cut her hair, and call her a boy — even if reversed later — must, absolutely must, scramble a child’s psyche.

This is just false. A more interesting question would be why she believes this, with no supporting evidence. Frankly, I think the way parents treat their children has a far more lasting impact than any potential phases kids go through, and it sounds like the original family is trying to work with their son in a very respectful, careful, positive way (also pretty clear their case is not like a phase). Obviously the author believes gender is a very important part of identity. You would think that would lead her to want to learn about and be compassionate to children who are being forced to live as a different gender than their own, for their parents' comfort.

[Persnickety Polecat]

(05-22-2012 03:10 PM)dramaturge Wrote:  So NRO had an article about this today. I actually read it. (I'll post the text below--it's worth reading the comments though to see how pervasive willful ignorance or misunderstanding of the topic is in the target audience.) Frankly, it's obvious to me the both the writer and the commentors (save one) have no understanding of the issues here. In fact, the writer seems openly skeptical of the very idea that someone could identify as a gender not reflected in their reproductive organs. One of the commentors apparently thinks that having gender identity disorder means you're gay: "As for this kid -- its ridiculous to let a 5-year old "change" their sexual identify. She's merely a little girl that's more action oriented than doll oriented. It doesn't mean she's gay." O.o.

Article text:

Quote:Transgender Five-Year-Old?
What decisions should small children be permitted to make?

By Mona Charen

A five-year-old child with large dark eyes, full lips, and a button nose stares out from the front page of the Washington Post Sunday edition. “Transgender at Five” declares the provocative headline. The child’s hair is being cut in a close, boy’s cut by her father.

We learn from the article that “Tyler,” who was born “Kathryn,” began insisting that she was a boy at the age of two. “‘I am a boy’ became a constant theme in struggles over clothing, bathing, swimming, eating, playing, breathing.” The child’s parents, at first uneasy and later accepting their girl’s desire to be a boy, agreed to raise her as a boy. Starting at age four, she began to wear boys’ clothes, was permitted to choose a boy’s name for herself, and has been introduced to family, friends, teachers, and fellow congregants at church as a boy.

Oh boy.

Let’s stipulate, for the sake of argument, that something called “gender dysphoria” — with which Tyler was diagnosed at age four — does exist. Let’s further agree, again for the sake of argument, that the proper treatment of this condition is choosing to live as the other sex, with all that such a radical decision implies. Is there any reasonable way to conclude that something as drastic as attempting to change one’s sexual identity can be undertaken by a four-year-old?

Advertisement
“Parents who ignore or deny these problems,” warns the Post, “can make life miserable for their kids, who can become depressed or suicidal, psychiatrists say.” How many psychiatrists? The very most that can be said is that the practice of treating children for what is sometimes called “gender identity disorder” is highly controversial in the psychiatric world. Some psychiatrists want to change the name to “gender incongruence” to remove the word “disorder.” Others, like Dr. Paul McHugh, professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University, think the whole idea of treating children for this condition is unwise. “We shouldn’t be mucking around with nature,” he told Fox News. “We can’t assume what the outcome will be.”

Apparently, hormone blockers are being prescribed more and more for children with “GID.” The hormone blockers postpone puberty indefinitely and thus, the Post explains, “give the kids more time to decide who they are and whether switching genders is the answer to their problems.” Dr. McHugh calls giving hormone blockers to children “child abuse.” Some young people are having “gender reassignment” surgery as early as age 16.

Perhaps some tiny percentage of children truly are born to feel trapped in the body of a person of the wrong sex. But it is undeniable that the vast majority of children go through stages. I recall wishing to be a boy myself when I was about five or six. I didn’t like frilly dresses and asked my playmates to call me “Timmy.” Perhaps mine was a normal tomboy phase and maybe that’s distinguishable from what Tyler is experiencing. But how can we be sure? The Post quotes Dr. Edgardo Menvielle, of the Children’s National Medical Center in Washington, D.C., who has been treating “transgender kids” for a decade. About 80 percent, he says, switch back to the gender they were born into by the time they reach adulthood.

The problem with the Post’s recommended approach — which amounts to “let’s accept a child’s version of reality to avoid causing depression or worse” — is that the decision of parents to indulge a child’s whim on gender identity is itself irreversible. The effects of hormone blockers, the Post reassures readers, are fully reversible. Maybe. How much research can there have been on such a new practice? Would parents who hesitate to let their kids eat preservatives or non-organic eggs consent to block the complex hormones that begin to flood kids’ bodies at puberty? In any case, the decision to dress a girl in boys’ clothing, cut her hair, and call her a boy — even if reversed later — must, absolutely must, scramble a child’s psyche. Imagine the confrontation between a teenaged girl who has changed her mind and the parents who raised her as a boy. “Did you not think I was pretty enough to be a girl? Wasn’t I feminine enough?” Or, perhaps even more damaging, a teenaged boy demanding to know whether his father thought him lacking in masculinity as a child. It’s a psychological minefield.

We have the technology to make — or at least appear to make — women into men and vice versa. If adults choose to do this to themselves (and can afford it), that’s their business. But a child? One wonders: What other major life decisions should four-year-olds be judged competent to make?

— Mona Charen is a nationally syndicated columnist. © 2012 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

A "tomboy phase"? AYKM? I was a tomboy. A full-fledged tomboy, probably from the time I came out of the womb. Was a tomboy through high school. Am pretty darn tomboyish even now, as a 38-year-old woman. And I am very much a woman. Why are people so quick to dismiss this?

Does anyone remember the case of twins (I think they were twins?) where one boy was horribly mutilated at birth and surgically altered into a girl. He grew up, though, insisting he was a boy, even though his parents raised him *as a girl.* No one ever told him he was a boy, but he knew in his heart he was a boy. He had the external genitals of a girl, but he knew he was a boy.

Why is it so hard to believe, then, that some people are simply born with a disconnect between their genitals and their mind?

[Naomi]

(05-22-2012 03:43 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  Does anyone remember the case of twins (I think they were twins?) where one boy was horribly mutilated at birth and surgically altered into a girl. He grew up, though, insisting he was a boy, even though his parents raised him *as a girl.* No one ever told him he was a boy, but he knew in his heart he was a boy. He had the external genitals of a girl, but he knew he was a boy.

Yes. He committed suicide. So did his twin. David Reimer.

[dramaturge]

One of the commentors referenced that situation; but unfortunately, the comment was otherwise nearly incoherent and never drew a conclusion, so the point was lost.

[Jenni]

(05-22-2012 03:52 PM)Naomi Wrote:  

(05-22-2012 03:43 PM)Persnickety Polecat Wrote:  Does anyone remember the case of twins (I think they were twins?) where one boy was horribly mutilated at birth and surgically altered into a girl. He grew up, though, insisting he was a boy, even though his parents raised him *as a girl.* No one ever told him he was a boy, but he knew in his heart he was a boy. He had the external genitals of a girl, but he knew he was a boy.

Yes. He committed suicide. So did his twin. David Reimer.

I just read a book about this case. Poor kid. That's completely wretched.

In any case, I think it's really neat to see the parents of transgendered kids who are allowing them to present as the gender they are and not what's between their legs. I'm sure the explosion of the internet has helped with that; those families are able to connect and support each other now.