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Ricardo · 05-29-2012, 06:57 PM

(05-29-2012 03:19 PM)B-Ray Wrote: You have to believe the account of Jesus' ministry, trial, death, burial, and resurrection are literal. You have to believe the miracles of pentecost to be literal.

No. There are plenty of denominations and Christians who do not believe in a literal style of interpreting those things. What good is saying you believe in a literal interpretation when literalists don;t even agree on what specific scripture says?

(05-29-2012 03:19 PM)B-Ray Wrote: i believe the bible does a good enough job of clarifying those areas where needs be.

No, and that's just it. Take the resurrection, for instance: none of the four descriptions of the resurrection are compatible with each other. Take the Passion, as another example. Luke says he read other people's account and wants to set the record straight. Instead, we have been trained to take Luke's account, and mix it with Mark's account and come up with a version that is neither. (same with Matthew and John.)

(05-29-2012 03:19 PM)B-Ray Wrote: i believe there is such thing as "One Correct Interpretation" for all scriptures.

HOW, in God's world can you come up with "One Correct Interpretation?" The Christian Church does not agree on canon. It does not agree on the actual words in Greek to accept as "words of God." It does not agree on translation and it does not agree on interpretation.

(05-29-2012 03:19 PM)B-Ray Wrote: Until then, ill trust God to help me read my Bible and learn whats spiritual and whats literal. thank you.

Fair enough.

Just be aware that sooner or later, after the life-changing decision of leaving the IFB fold, you will also have to leave the blind belief in a perfect bible, perfect translation or perfect interpretation.

We are all in this adventure of exploring a life in abundance, with no nets.

elizabethn · 05-29-2012, 07:30 PM

(05-29-2012 06:32 AM)elfdream Wrote: I understood you. Don't know if that helps or not.

Thanks

. Well, not sure if that was directed at me or not, but since many of the people currently influencing my thinking on Christian life and doctrine are Catholic theologians, I'd imagine something in there probably sounds familiar to you heehee.....

elfdream · 05-29-2012, 07:43 PM

(05-29-2012 07:30 PM)elizabethn Wrote:
(05-29-2012 06:32 AM)elfdream Wrote: I understood you. Don't know if that helps or not.

Thanks . Well, not sure if that was directed at me or not, but since many of the people currently influencing my thinking on Christian life and doctrine are Catholic theologians, I'd imagine something in there probably sounds familiar to you heehee.....

It does.

B-Ray · 05-29-2012, 07:45 PM

(05-29-2012 06:14 PM)elizabethn Wrote:
(05-29-2012 03:19 PM)B-Ray Wrote: P.S. Bob M., you obviously haven't put your old lady in her place. Sissy!

And that is the end of my interaction with such as you. Go fuck yourself, you misogynist bastard.

sorry you feel that way, i thought you were more intelligent than that, i guess when you back a post-modernist into a corner, you get vulgarisms Blush

elizabethn · 05-29-2012, 08:39 PM

(05-29-2012 07:43 PM)elfdream Wrote: It does.

I just finished a class called "Theology of Ministry." One of the books we used had a BIG impact on me and might be of interest to you: http://www.amazon.com/Ministry-That-Tran...754&sr=8-1 The author is a Sister of Mercy fwiw.

**redbeardiam** · 05-29-2012, 11:04 PM

(05-28-2012 10:15 PM)elizabethn Wrote:
(05-28-2012 08:37 PM)redbeardiam Wrote: At first I read this:

and I was all like, what?

Then I read elizabethn's (wordy, slightly pedantic) post more thoroughly and I saw

and

And I realized he probably wasn't being sexist or derogatory, he was just remarking on something in her post.

You'll have to provide me with evidence that he is not sexist and derogatory in his leanings--if you'd like me to think better of him than I do, that is . I have seen a lot more evidence that he IS that way. That's why I eventually blocked him.

I'm wordy and pedantic, except when I'm being short and sharp. That's not likely to change much. I struggle with it in every paper I write.

I don't really care how you think of him. He's not my responsibility. It just seemed as though everyone was jumping to the most negative possible conclusion on that post... and I had the same reaction until I went back and reread yours.

BTW it's possible to make your points (some of which I agree with) without being an obnoxious jerk to everybody who 'dares' disagree with you.

bean · 05-30-2012, 07:07 AM

I know people who believe Job really happened. And Jonah. All of it. Every single word in all 66 books in the OT and 27 in the NT. Word for word.

So glad I have moved on. The Bible is a collection of stories, history, literature, poetry, and metaphors. We can hear God speak through the Bible IF we listen.

**Mommy2Kids** · 05-30-2012, 08:22 AM

I'm one of those ignorant people, I guess. Confused

elizabethn · 05-30-2012, 10:48 AM

(05-29-2012 11:04 PM)redbeardiam Wrote: BTW it's possible to make your points (some of which I agree with) without being an obnoxious jerk to everybody who 'dares' disagree with you.

Overgeneralize much?

elizabethn · 05-30-2012, 11:01 AM

(05-30-2012 08:22 AM)Mommy2Kids Wrote: I'm one of those ignorant people, I guess.

Ignorance is always temporary and curable by being open to education and change. That gives you *choices* about what to think and believe. And freedom is all about having choices. If, having considered other ways of seeing something, or at least having acknowledged that other options exist and are *just as valid* as your belief, you don't change what you believe, that is a choice. As long as it harms no one, in my book it's a *viable* choice.

I don't care what you believe. I care about beliefs being presented as facts without evidence to back them up. I care about freedom to express and discuss beliefs, evidence and many other topics. And I care a hell of a lot about being put in a category alongside abusive powermongering SOB's when it doesn't fit.