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NotUnderLaw · 05-24-2012, 08:31 PM

John, Romans, Galatians.

That'sWhatItSays · 05-25-2012, 06:51 AM

Nothing by Spong or the Jesus Seminar. Christ is risen; the Spirit is real; God spoke through the scriptures.

Pagan Christianity and The Untold Story of the New Testament Church by Frank Viola are very good. I like what Not Under Law and captain solo said. If you just read the Bible and take it for what it says, (i.e. That'sWhatItSays), you'll have to conclude that Christianity focused on the sermon and the authority of one man at the head of the church is just anti-thetical to the entire New Testament and come to realize the intent of the manipulation is not to draw us closer to God, but to solidify the power structure in existence.

I also enjoyed reading this website

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

elizabethn · 05-25-2012, 11:11 AM

(05-25-2012 06:51 AM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Nothing by Spong or the Jesus Seminar. Christ is risen; the Spirit is real; God spoke through the scriptures.

Pagan Christianity and The Untold Story of the New Testament Church by Frank Viola are very good. I like what Not Under Law and captain solo said. If you just read the Bible and take it for what it says, (i.e. That'sWhatItSays), you'll have to conclude that Christianity focused on the sermon and the authority of one man at the head of the church is just anti-thetical to the entire New Testament and come to realize the intent of the manipulation is not to draw us closer to God, but to solidify the power structure in existence.

I also enjoyed reading this website

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

Oh goodie. Another mindless one in the house. Have you ever read anything by those authors? Nah, I didn't think so.

**redbeardiam** · 05-25-2012, 11:57 AM

(05-25-2012 06:51 AM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Nothing by Spong or the Jesus Seminar. Christ is risen; the Spirit is real; God spoke through the scriptures.

Pagan Christianity and The Untold Story of the New Testament Church by Frank Viola are very good. I like what Not Under Law and captain solo said. If you just read the Bible and take it for what it says, (i.e. That'sWhatItSays), you'll have to conclude that Christianity focused on the sermon and the authority of one man at the head of the church is just anti-thetical to the entire New Testament and come to realize the intent of the manipulation is not to draw us closer to God, but to solidify the power structure in existence.

I also enjoyed reading this website

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/

Nice soapbox.

Ricardo · 05-25-2012, 07:05 PM

Spong's "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" is what allowed me to re-open the bible, after a decade where I simply couldn't get myself to open it.

Spong is a loud mouth. He loves baiting Fundamentalists. He doesn't do his own research.

But some of the theologians he quotes are pretty good.

If you don't need him, you probably will not like him either. He openly states that he writes for the "church alumni association." If you are still attending a church, clearly Spong is not for you.

Jesus Seminar. I am always amazed at how insulted Fundamentalists become when someone expresses his own opinion, which just happens not to agree with what the fundamentalist believes as GOD'S OWN TRUTH. When one side knows they have the infallible truth, there is no possible dialog that can take place... like the Borg: you must be assimilated. (...Marcus Borg on the other hand... Smile

)

That'sWhatItSays · (This post was last modified: 05-25-2012 08:35 PM by That'sWhatItSays.)

The Jesus Seminar disputes just about EVERYTHING traditional Christians believe about the Bible. I like how I presented personal examples of a Christianity that liberates, and I'm called "mindless" by Elizabethan. Let's not have double standards; I can prove in any number of ways that I'm not "mindless". I feel sorry for you whatever your background is in the IFB, but Christianity is still important and can be vibrant.

I did read excerpts from Spong's various books about 15 years ago, and they are solely for the unbeliever. Guess what? Christians are called to edify and encourage each other, not engage in "doubtful disputations". I am a BORN-AGAIN Christian. I was saved from aimlessness and pointlessness at the age of 21. Anyone who has faith in Christ need spend no time whatsoever with anything Spong did. He is intelligent and well-written, but so what?

Ricardo, the Jesus Seminar does not insult fundamentalists; they insult Christianity. Bottom line, they deny the deity of Christ, and they have a jolly good time doing it. Someone must have the infallible truth when it comes to the basics of Christianity....is it the unbelievers or the believers? That's all I ask. Forget the IFB, society of Friends, Methodists, or Catholics. Is Jesus Christ the Creator God who visited the world in human form or not?

Footnote edit: I am mistaken, and I apologize. I've never read anything by Spong. It was Dominic Crossan whom I read 15 years ago. I only read reviews of Spong.

B-Ray · 05-25-2012, 08:49 PM

well said. since deciding to leave the sheepfold it has been a barrage of booby traps everywhere. Its a dangerous world out there. I thank GOD for the Spirit. Without Him, it would be an endless journey of aimlessly wandering around carried about by every wind of doctrine. Some are lead to truth more slowly than others. While some never allow the Voice to be heard. I was one those, but since leaving, i now have more sensitive ears, yet still very capable of misunderstanding. I realize there are many unbelievers here as well as believers.

Thats my 2cents

Ricardo · 05-25-2012, 10:41 PM

(05-25-2012 08:27 PM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: Someone must have the infallible truth when it comes to the basics of Christianity

Says who? (Not sure it is worth discussing this with someone named 'That'sWhatItSays')

I don't mind when we are comparing experiences. We are trying to describe an experience that by definition surpasses all understanding. There is no way one of us can claim that my truth is the infallible one while your truth is not.

There is no way any one of us can claim that the specific committee of men who chose our preferred canon was infallible in their choices. There were at least five different committees.

There is no way any one of us can claim that the committee that chose which passages from which manuscripts to declare as the official apparatus was inerrant in its deliberation. In fact they are already working on the next version. (NA28) Shouldn;t we wait until NA30 or NA32 before we start thinking about declaring it "inerrant?"

Does the Lord's Prayer in your bible version have the doxology ending or not? which bible is the infallible one? The one with the doxology or the one without?

(05-25-2012 08:27 PM)ThatsWhatItSays Wrote: ....is it the unbelievers or the believers?

Wrong choices. Not the only alternatives

It is perfectly normal for BELIEVERS to have different understandings. Different denominations have been created not because one faction stopped believing. On the contrary. Both groups believe so strongly that they are not willing to give up the belief they are convinced comes from God.

So, does someone really have to have the infallible truth?

Of Course! I do!

elizabethn · 05-26-2012, 12:42 AM

(05-25-2012 08:49 PM)B-Ray Wrote: well said. since deciding to leave the sheepfold it has been a barrage of booby traps everywhere. Its a dangerous world out there. I thank GOD for the Spirit. Without Him, it would be an endless journey of aimlessly wandering around carried about by every wind of doctrine. Some are lead to truth more slowly than others. While some never allow the Voice to be heard. I was one those, but since leaving, i now have more sensitive ears, yet still very capable of misunderstanding. I realize there are many unbelievers here as well as believers.

Thats my 2cents

If your ears are now more sensitive, I hope you heard what was said on the thread about gluttons and disability. Evidence that you heard it would go a long way, hint hint.

The world is not all that dangerous. If your God is so tiny that the world God created is "dangerous," then you have a miniscule God. The world, indeed the universe, is full of marvels and wonders. People have good, bad and neutral characteristics. Relationships are the greatest teachers.

You do not know who here is a believer or unbeliever, not even if they use those labels to identify themselves. You do not read minds or know hearts. Let go of the labeling and the little boxes and don't be worried about supposed "salvation status."

That'sWhatItSays · 05-26-2012, 06:06 AM

Ricardo, your discussion of manuscripts and church councils misses many points. You can easily prove the Messiah would be a manifestation of God Himself from the Old Testament scriptures, the consistency of which there is little controversy at all. Christianity is a continuation of the faith of the ancient descendants of Abraham. To affirm Christianity is to affirm the Old Testament as a foundation for its reasonableness. The thousands of types and prophecies in the ancient scriptures are overwhelming. It all pointed to a man that we now know as Jesus.