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Sparkle Pony · (This post was last modified: 05-13-2012 06:58 PM by Sparkle Pony.)

I was a student at BJU. And they preach a lot of sermons there about the responsibility of witnessing to people. A lot of guilt poured on thick. I was always preparing for any visit back home to be filled with glorious witnessing opportunities. The closer it came to winter or summer break, the more sermons we got too.

So I was home on break. Christmas, I think. My Grandma invited me to come over to her house and make cookies with her. The night before I went over there, I prayed all through the night. I couldn't sleep. I just kept praying about how to witness to her. About what I would say. How I would say it. The next day I drove over there and I was absolutely exhausted from not sleeping. I was paralyzed with fear during any conversation, trying to figure out how I could throw in the plan of salvation somewhere. I was tired and filled with guilt and went home early, and she was disappointed that I didn't stay longer.

That is my fundy memory of wrestling all night in prayer.

**beth** · 05-13-2012, 07:58 PM

Yeah, I heard that one a lot, too. Unfortunately, I never actually met anyone (student or otherwise) who actually could do that. If a dorm student tried, they'd get in trouble for being up after lights out. As a town student, there was no way I could have either (that whole driving 30 miles one-way could get a little dangerous with no sleep). Personally, I figure I can ask God for something, but he's going to do what he's already willed, so there's no reason for me to stay up all night arguing with myself.

Jenni · 05-14-2012, 08:18 AM

(05-13-2012 07:58 PM)beth Wrote: Personally, I figure I can ask God for something, but he's going to do what he's already willed, so there's no reason for me to stay up all night arguing with myself.

Yep. This.

Papa Bear · 05-14-2012, 08:39 AM

Jesus did tell us to keep praying and not give up, but some people have stretched that to mean that if we use the right technique or intensity, we can always make God do whatever we want. Even Jesus prayed, "Not what I will, but what You will." We still need to pray, because Jesus told us too, but at some point, we need to have faith that He has heard us, and whatever He chooses to do will be right. Maybe this (wrestling all night in prayer) is what Jesus was talking about when He said, "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

He follows this with a four sentence prayer, and tells us this is how we should pray. Nothing wrong with coming back to Him in prayer time after time, but excessively long prayers or sessions of prayer do not seem to be something He encourages.

**Scorpio** · 05-14-2012, 10:07 AM

(05-14-2012 08:39 AM)Papa Bear Wrote: ....Maybe this (wrestling all night in prayer) is what Jesus was talking about when He said, "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their many words....

Serious question Papa Bear - Do you know what verses those are? I am curious. Thanks.

(05-14-2012 08:39 AM)Papa Bear Wrote: He follows this with a four sentence prayer, and tells us this is how we should pray. Nothing wrong with coming back to Him in prayer time after time, but excessively long prayers or sessions of prayer do not seem to be something He encourages.

Surely you are not talking about the Lord's prayer are you? That would be waaaaay too Catholic. Big Grin

**pastor's wife** · (This post was last modified: 05-14-2012 10:17 AM by pastor's wife.)

Matthew 6:7: “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words." (ESV)

KJV says, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

Once at BJU (in grad school), I stayed up all night reading the Bible, praying, and crying in terrible fear that I wasn't saved. What a horrible, horrible night. No victory, just agony and exhaustion.

**Scorpio** · 05-14-2012, 10:40 AM

(05-14-2012 10:15 AM)pastors wife Wrote: Matthew 6:7: “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words." (ESV)

KJV says, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

Thanks pw. Yes, the vain repetitions verse, aka Fundy Reason #26 that we are better than the Catholics.

It has recently dawned on me on how full of crap fundies are when it comes to the vain repetitions thing. So according to fundies saying the Hail Mary multiple times during the rosary is vain repetition, but really all the Hail Mary consists of is Scripture (most of it anyway). See Luke 1:28 and 42. But 20 people in a prayer meeting praying for the exact same thing 20 times in a row is not vain repetition? And not to mention Brother Jed whose prayers consist of 3 words and then "Lord we just", 3 words and "Lord we just". Rinse and repeat 25 times. No, that's not vain repetition at all.

**redhot** · 05-17-2012, 09:13 PM

(05-14-2012 10:40 AM)Scorpio Wrote: And not to mention Brother Jed whose prayers consist of 3 words and then "Lord we just", 3 words and "Lord we just". Rinse and repeat 25 times. No, that's not vain repetition at all.

After hearing someone mention this, I realized that I sometimes did it. I am very conscious of it now, especially since in my school I often have to pray aloud. I also find myself counting the number of times the word "Lord" or "Father God" is used by some of the men in our church (never women, since of course they are never allowed to pray publicly)

05-18-2012, 08:35 AM

I tried wrestling all night in prayer a couple times. All I got was horribly tired and the next day could not function. And I hate "Lord we just." After so many years in leadership, if I am asked to pray publicly, I speak softly and put all my energies into actually speaking to God. Mostly they are very short prayers.

Papa Bear · 05-18-2012, 08:51 AM

(05-14-2012 10:07 AM)Scorpio Wrote:
(05-14-2012 08:39 AM)Papa Bear Wrote: ....Maybe this (wrestling all night in prayer) is what Jesus was talking about when He said, "And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their many words....

Serious question Papa Bear - Do you know what verses those are? I am curious. Thanks.

(05-14-2012 08:39 AM)Papa Bear Wrote: He follows this with a four sentence prayer, and tells us this is how we should pray. Nothing wrong with coming back to Him in prayer time after time, but excessively long prayers or sessions of prayer do not seem to be something He encourages.

Surely you are not talking about the Lord's prayer are you? That would be waaaaay too Catholic.

Matthew 6:5 and verses following. I would recommend reading to at least verse 15. Yes, I was quoting the verses leading up to the Lord's prayer, and yes, that was intentional. I believe the IFB miss the point of this passage. It's not that you should never pray the same words twice, it's that your holiness is not measured by the length of your prayers.

And Jesus actually told the disciples: "When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

When He asks, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" "Because the Catholics do that" will not be an acceptable answer.