Preaching without apology

[exOBCstudent]

(05-31-2012 07:55 AM)tiarali Wrote:  I'm thinking there's some circular reasoning going on with fundy pastors.

1. This verse must mean x because that is what I've always been taught it means.
2. Since this verse means x, I am allowed to say x, no matter how nasty x is, because the verse said it, so God said it, so it must be ok to say it.
3. If you don't like it that I said x, then it must mean that you are depraved, since you don't like what God said.
4. If you try to explain to me that the verse doesn't actually mean x, then see number 1 (and know that I am right and you are wrong, because of number 1).

Notice that at no point in time does logical thought ever enter into the equation.

Right. That's why this drawing makes so much sense.



(This guy is really awesome!)

[C_Fresh]

(05-31-2012 07:55 AM)tiarali Wrote:  I'm thinking there's some circular reasoning going on with fundy pastors.

1. This verse must mean x because that is what I've always been taught it means.
2. Since this verse means x, I am allowed to say x, no matter how nasty x is, because the verse said it, so God said it, so it must be ok to say it.
3. If you don't like it that I said x, then it must mean that you are depraved, since you don't like what God said.
4. If you try to explain to me that the verse doesn't actually mean x, then see number 1 (and know that I am right and you are wrong, because of number 1).
Notice that at no point in time does logical thought ever enter into the equation.

I just experienced something like this earlier in the week. Trying to explain why we have modern versions and citing examples like Prov 14:28 and the 'avoid appearance of evil' passage.

[pastor's wife]

(05-31-2012 07:55 AM)tiarali Wrote:  I'm thinking there's some circular reasoning going on with fundy pastors.

1. This verse must mean x because that is what I've always been taught it means.
2. Since this verse means x, I am allowed to say x, no matter how nasty x is, because the verse said it, so God said it, so it must be ok to say it.

Yes!!! This is apparently what they do, and it's so maddening to hear because they seem to be blind to their own arrogance and mean-spiritedness. How can they NOT be gentle and humble and gracious if they are filled with the Spirit of God? "For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God." (James 1:20)

But when you try to point that out to them, they immediately jump to point #3:

Quote:3. If you don't like it that I said x, then it must mean that you are depraved, since you don't like what God said.
4. If you try to explain to me that the verse doesn't actually mean x, then see number 1 (and know that I am right and you are wrong, because of number 1).

Madness!!!

[Scorpio]

(05-31-2012 07:55 AM)tiarali Wrote:  I'm thinking there's some circular reasoning going on with fundy pastors.

1. This verse must mean x because that is what I've always been taught it means.
2. Since this verse means x, I am allowed to say x, no matter how nasty x is, because the verse said it, so God said it, so it must be ok to say it.
3. If you don't like it that I said x, then it must mean that you are depraved, since you don't like what God said.
4. If you try to explain to me that the verse doesn't actually mean x, then see number 1 (and know that I am right and you are wrong, because of number 1).

Notice that at no point in time does logical thought ever enter into the equation.

I would add another in between #2 and #3. That would be:

Since I am the mouthpiece of God, I speak for God. Me saying it is just like God saying it.

[captain_solo]

(05-31-2012 09:32 AM)Scorpio Wrote:  

(05-31-2012 07:55 AM)tiarali Wrote:  I'm thinking there's some circular reasoning going on with fundy pastors.

1. This verse must mean x because that is what I've always been taught it means.
2. Since this verse means x, I am allowed to say x, no matter how nasty x is, because the verse said it, so God said it, so it must be ok to say it.
3. If you don't like it that I said x, then it must mean that you are depraved, since you don't like what God said.
4. If you try to explain to me that the verse doesn't actually mean x, then see number 1 (and know that I am right and you are wrong, because of number 1).

Notice that at no point in time does logical thought ever enter into the equation.

I would add another in between #2 and #3. That would be:

Since I am the mouthpiece of God, I speak for God. Me saying it is just like God saying it.

Actually that is number 0.5, it is almost not even necessary to list or say out loud it is understood and clearly obvious to anyone with spiritual discernment

[dramaturge]

(05-31-2012 07:55 AM)tiarali Wrote:  I'm thinking there's some circular reasoning going on with fundy pastors.

1. This verse must mean x because that is what I've always been taught it means.
2. Since this verse means x, I am allowed to say x, no matter how nasty x is, because the verse said it, so God said it, so it must be ok to say it.
3. If you don't like it that I said x, then it must mean that you are depraved, since you don't like what God said.
4. If you try to explain to me that the verse doesn't actually mean x, then see number 1 (and know that I am right and you are wrong, because of number 1).

Notice that at no point in time does logical thought ever enter into the equation.

That is spot on. And, along with 3, the fact that society in general now recognizes that it's not okay to say certain things because it's highly offensive and rude is just "evidence" that society is on a path away from God and headed toward further depravity.

[JimE]

Circular reasoning is definitely present. Another fallacy present is applying the authority of God to the interpretation of God’s word. Scorpio hinted at this with step 2.5 “Since I am the mouthpiece of God, I speak for God. Me saying it is just like God saying it.”
The speaker erroneously is trying to apply the authority and integrity of God to what they state i.e. their interpretation of the Bible text. The strangest part of organized religeon is the belief of the leadership that the Bible needs to be clarified via preaching. I have a dream ... that one day pastors throughout the world will someday read the Bible and then sit down without additional comment.

[greg]

(05-31-2012 03:35 PM)JimE Wrote:  Circular reasoning is definitely present. Another fallacy present is applying the authority of God to the interpretation of God’s word. Scorpio hinted at this with step 2.5 “Since I am the mouthpiece of God, I speak for God. Me saying it is just like God saying it.”
The speaker erroneously is trying to apply the authority and integrity of God to what they state i.e. their interpretation of the Bible text. The strangest part of organized religeon is the belief of the leadership that the Bible needs to be clarified via preaching. I have a dream ... that one day pastors throughout the world will someday read the Bible and then sit down without additional comment.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correction and training in rightesouness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16