Pre-Trib

[B-Ray]

I cant see it any other way, but im only goin on what ive been taught and its intimidating to study prophecy. what do yall believe and why?

can u help me

[Donb123]

Read the parable of the Wheat and the Tares in Matt 13

[Don]

Is there any other place in Scripture where God supernaturally snached his people out of harms way so that they, as a people, would not have to endure the hardship, difficulty, and tribulation that others around them might have to endure as well? It rains on the just and the unjust alike.

This idea that Christians will not have to endure pain and suffering on an epic scale the world has never known, simply because some Pentecostal Scottish woman had some visions which J.N Darby embraced and promoted as end times prophecy, is simply too much to coherently embrace without making some irrational leaps in logic and pulling off some staggering feats of mental gymnastics.

Yeah, I used to be one of them myself... Then I witnessed the Pre-mil/pre-trib eschatology used as a power grab by a M-O-g who used it to consolidate power for himself and run his "competition" (a teaching elder) off. I started thinking, "if this doctrine is that devisive then is it of God?" Obviously I came to the conclusion that it was man made teachings that served only to divide the body of Christ over a non-issue. The only thing that is actually stated in Scripture is that Jesus Christ will return bodily and will be worshipped as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Unmanned cars, airplanes and empty clothes piled up everywhere is a non-issue (unless one holds to it with cultlike ferver).

[dramaturge]

I don't actually have a position on eschatology anymore other than God knows what He's doing there. I just found too much to question regarding pre-trib rature, etc. And, rather like Don, found that pre-trib eschatology seemed to lend itself to abuse of authority as well as a very "God's coming back, what's the point" attitude toward society and civilization as a whole. I haven't found the time or motivation to study it out and determine what I do believe the Bible teaches, but then, I also feel if it were that important, Revelation wouldn't be so metaphorical. haha

[NotUnderLaw]

(05-05-2012 11:06 PM)brobillyray Wrote:  I cant see it any other way, but im only goin on what ive been taught and its intimidating to study prophecy. what do yall believe and why?

can u help me

Believe what you will about it. I can't be bothered with eschatology anymore. Some might say "blasphemy, Jesus said to watch and wait", but it takes up too much energy to constantly be fearful about the state of the world. When he comes back, I'll be with Him. The end.

[elizabethn]

What do I believe? That there is no such thing as the Rapture. It's an idea that's about 100 years old and it's invented out of fantasy combined with prooftexting. That whole "show me from Scripture" thing is an invitation to prooftext. I try not to do that any more.

[elfdream]

(05-05-2012 11:38 PM)Don Wrote:  Is there any other place in Scripture where God supernaturally snached his people out of harms way so that they, as a people, would not have to endure the hardship, difficulty, and tribulation that others around them might have to endure as well? It rains on the just and the unjust alike.

This idea that Christians will not have to endure pain and suffering on an epic scale the world has never known, simply because some Pentecostal Scottish woman had some visions which J.N Darby embraced and promoted as end times prophecy, is simply too much to coherently embrace without making some irrational leaps in logic and pulling off some staggering feats of mental gymnastics.

Yeah, I used to be one of them myself... Then I witnessed the Pre-mil/pre-trib eschatology used as a power grab by a M-O-g who used it to consolidate power for himself and run his "competition" (a teaching elder) off. I started thinking, "if this doctrine is that devisive then is it of God?" Obviously I came to the conclusion that it was man made teachings that served only to divide the body of Christ over a non-issue. The only thing that is actually stated in Scripture is that Jesus Christ will return bodily and will be worshipped as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Unmanned cars, airplanes and empty clothes piled up everywhere is a non-issue (unless one holds to it with cultlike ferver).

J.D. Darby started it and it was brought to America via Scofield by way of the commentary notes in his edition of the Bible. If he had not done that the whole concept pretty much would have died out in England.

Scofield was a piece of work himself. He abandoned his first wife and his behavior would pretty much fit in with what some of these other IFB 'leaders' get into today.

The whole rapture concept also pretty much a strictly 'American' thing. Its in other countries but mostly because we took it there by way of our 'missionaries'. It is not part of classic Christianity.

I myself do not waste time worrying about the end times. I believe in the Second Coming and that's good enough for me.

[B-Ray]

what do yall mean by prooftext

[bean]

B-Ray,
I don't believe it. It is definitely part of American fundamentalism that came through Darby and Scoffield.
I believe that at some point God's kingdom will reign on heaven and on earth..and God in His way, in His time, will make all things right.

The whole Left Behind thing or the creepy pictures of cars crashing of the road driverless? Not so much..

[Don]

(05-06-2012 10:54 AM)B-Ray Wrote:  what do yall mean by prooftext

That is where one starts with a premise or an opinion and they scour the Bible for verses that "prove" the premise/opinion, rather than taking the whole counsel of God's word and basing our opinions/worldview on what it says in total. Pre-tribulation rapture is one such doctrine where there is not a clear preponderance of scriptural evidence to make it an essential (or "fundamental") doctrine of the faith.