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Hollandmichigan · 05-06-2012, 12:34 PM

(05-06-2012 11:34 AM)Naomi Wrote: You'd be an idiot if you failed to ask what he was on (among other things).

Good point... I shall refrain long enough to get the drugs, and then proceed!

Quote: There are fascinating explanations for people's "paranormal" experiences, and if your only response is to laugh, you are missing out on chances to learn about the human experience and the world.

on a less serious note, i think ill pass on that experience! But seriously: not everything in life is a learning moment, nor are all things subjective. Im tired of thinking i have to pretend that rank, unadulterated bullshit makes any sense--least of all out of fear for other people's feelings. Its not my responsibility if others choose to take offense.

Quote:If you weren't intending to be attacking, you need to adjust your writing style to line up with that.

again i have to disagree. I said he was good entertainment, if for nothing else, its not my fault if you put such a low value on entertainment. Look: i am not nice all the time. Nor should i have to be.

**Naomi** · 05-06-2012, 12:59 PM

(05-06-2012 12:34 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote: i am not nice all the time. Nor should i have to be.

If you want to act mean, go somewhere else. I don't want to see it or have to be around it. It's not appropriate here.

And I'm not suggesting trying drugs yourself, but looking up (and learning about rather than ridiculing through lack of understanding) the causes for various human experiences.

Ricardo · 05-06-2012, 01:03 PM

(05-04-2012 12:49 PM)FmrMarine Wrote: The problem with Christianity isn't just the claim of access to god, it's the claim of eternal life.

Right. That is what I thought also.

Actually, more than that. By the time I left Fundamentalism I no longer believed in any of the five “fundamentals:”
1. The inspiration of scripture as the literal, revealed word of God.
2. The virgin birth as the means by which the divine nature of Christ has been guaranteed.
3. Atonement for the rest of us accomplished by the death of Jesus.
4. The certainty of the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
5. The truth of the second coming of Jesus, the reality of the Day of Judgment, which would be based on the record of one’s life, and the certainty of heaven and hell as eternal places of reward and punishment.

It took me years, (ten or twenty) to figure out that it is actually only a minority among Christians who actually believe all five. Naomi is right. When I left Fundamentalism I also thought I was leaving god. It was very weird when I started trying to argue with people from other denominations, and they simply agreed with me.

(05-04-2012 12:49 PM)FmrMarine Wrote: The bible and the Koran direct actions for these people. It inspires them to stay in abusive marriages, to abuse children, to blow up buildings for Pete's sake!

Ah, yes, judging religions by their minimum common denominator. Yes, Religion can be opium, just as Marx described.

But religion is also very useful to billions of people as a coping mechanism for everyday life. Religion can also help people overcome many obstacles, and become better human beings.

The problem is when one group or the other claim monopoly of access to God. It is as if this group of amoebas in this specific puddle could claim they are the only ones, that god can only be accessed through their particular version.

Meanwhile, I’ve got to get used to the fact that while I KNOW I’m a believer, all of the IFB and even most of those who have left the IFB would still consider me a non-believer, not because of my belief in God, but because of my unbelief in the (IMHO superfluous) many doctrines out there.

Hollandmichigan · 05-06-2012, 01:16 PM

(05-06-2012 12:59 PM)Naomi Wrote:
(05-06-2012 12:34 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote: i am not nice all the time. Nor should i have to be.

If you want to act mean, go somewhere else. I don't want to see it or have to be around it. It's not appropriate here.

Then go somewhere else! But leave me and my words alone. I am not going to be school-marmed into not giving my honest opinion.

**Naomi** · 05-06-2012, 01:21 PM

(05-06-2012 01:16 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote: not giving my honest opinion.

Yeah, that's what this is about, not the fact that the way you're giving your opinions is insulting and rude. Rolleyes

Hollandmichigan · 05-06-2012, 03:00 PM

(05-06-2012 01:21 PM)Naomi Wrote:
(05-06-2012 01:16 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote: not giving my honest opinion.

Yeah, that's what this is about, not the fact that the way you're giving your opinions is insulting and rude.

You must be under the delusion that honesty is nice.

**Qrayze** · 05-06-2012, 07:30 PM

(05-06-2012 03:00 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:
(05-06-2012 01:21 PM)Naomi Wrote: Yeah, that's what this is about, not the fact that the way you're giving your opinions is insulting and rude.

You must be under the delusion that honesty is nice.

ok, total thread derailment, I know, but I just realized your name as "Holland Michigan" instead of "Holl and Michigan" (which is how I've been reading it this whole time Blush

), so are you from there? I know that's where Schaap grew up and I was curious if you knew of his home church or any of his family members. (I have no idea how big that city is, btw....too lazy to google it)

Hollandmichigan · 05-06-2012, 07:59 PM

(05-06-2012 07:30 PM)Qrayze Wrote:
(05-06-2012 03:00 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote: You must be under the delusion that honesty is nice.

ok, total thread derailment, I know, but I just realized your name as "Holland Michigan" instead of "Holl and Michigan" (which is how I've been reading it this whole time ), so are you from there? I know that's where Schaap grew up and I was curious if you knew of his home church or any of his family members. (I have no idea how big that city is, btw....too lazy to google it)

Its fine, im pretty sure derailment happend a longg time ago. Schaap who?! Ill pm you in just a sec

**Presbygirl** · (This post was last modified: 05-06-2012 08:06 PM by Presbygirl.)

(05-06-2012 07:59 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:
(05-06-2012 07:30 PM)Qrayze Wrote: ok, total thread derailment, I know, but I just realized your name as "Holland Michigan" instead of "Holl and Michigan" (which is how I've been reading it this whole time ), so are you from there? I know that's where Schaap grew up and I was curious if you knew of his home church or any of his family members. (I have no idea how big that city is, btw....too lazy to google it)

Its fine, im pretty sure derailment happend a longg time ago. Schaap who?! Ill pm you in just a sec

Schaap who?!
That's all kinds of awesome right there. Big Grin

.

Ricardo · 05-06-2012, 08:13 PM

Holl and Naomi:

We are in a forum where most of us have chosen to abandon what until recently we thought was THE ONLY WAY.

Of course we are going to get screamed at. Of course we are going to get pissed ourselves. (ANGER is one of those issues that many of us sublimated. After all as "good" Christians we were not supposed to get angry. So many of us are trying to recover from a LOT of passive aggressive behaviors.

So someone screamed at you? Get over it. Keep going on the REAL issues. Life is too short to get hung up on labels that can never described the complex motivations we all come here with.

I love Mandela's quote, when asked if he had resentments regarding the 27 years in jail he suffered. "Resentment is like taking poison and hoping your enemies die."