Dan Savage discusses bible at High School Journalism convention

[lucrezaborgia]

They want to be journalists and you say they shouldn't be open to scorn for their ideas??? Maybe they need that dose of reality. Welcome to the world of writing...it's not candyland.

[myotch]

I'm not sure of the venue set-up, or what the high schoolers were supposed to be doing while listening to this speaker and/or other speakers.

It SEEMS to me that this guy was invited as a columnist to speak to these young, budding journalists about an issue that affects people in their age group, while also being an issue that is very newsworthy and has received recent press. I also think he was invited to give a certain opinion viewpoint on the issue, given that he has been recognized by the POTUS for his activism on this subject.

Perhaps these young Christian kids do need a dose of reality. I still have a hard time buying that this guy was an appropriate speaker for this age group and this venue. Not that a lot of parents knew who he was, what he wrote about (sex advice blog and homosexual activism), or that he advertises sex toys in a somewhat graphic way on his blog.

Yeah, let's go ahead and blame that parents and the kids for their role in this, which respectively amounts to trusting the venue's organizers to have an age-appropriate speaker, and walking out when the anti-bully hypocrite starts castigating the Bible and the religious, and calling the kids who did walk out "pansy ass".

For someone who "wants to see the whole speech", it seems like you've already made up your mind at the kids being at some kind of vague, nebulous "fault" worthy of vague, nebulous critique. I guess we are just waiting to see if you think the speaker had any kind of fault whatsoever in his delivery or his reaction to their reaction.

I hope you can agree with me that, in his role as a speaker, particularly as a persuasive speaker with a particular platform he desires to promote, that the opportunity for him to find common ground with the audience in regards to anti-bullying was his and his alone to lose, and he did in fact squander the opportunity with a segment of his audience that could possibly be persuaded to agree with him in general on anti-bullying.

What's really disappointing to me is that, on the issue of school bullying...I was bullied. I did everything right, by the book, doing exactly what the school wanted me to do. Yet the school empowered my aggressors, and left me swinging in the wind. I want the greater issue to come to light. I don't care if the protagonist is gay or straight, atheist or Christian or Muslim. So it really kind of kills me that someone can take up the platform the way this guy did, and make himself the focus by effectively attacking a viewpoint that only tangentially relates with the topic at hand. Yeah, some people will use the Bible to justify their bad behavior. The teen sociopath (and really, i think most teens are sociopaths) would find a reason to root out and exploit who he perceives as weak if he knew the Bible or not.

Believe it or not, the Bible and religion are not the only factors when it comes to negative views on homosexuality. Not all secular and non-monotheistic societies were gay-friendly paradises.

[FundoNoMo]

(04-30-2012 08:56 AM)mrmody Wrote:  http://youtu.be/ao0k9qDsOvs

Notice how many cowardly x-tians leave the room instead of debating Dan Savage.

How could they debate him? I'm sick and tired of everyone acting like homosexuality is a biblically supported lifestyle. It just isn't. Dan Savage knows it and disagrees with it. That's fine, but it's also ok to disagree with him and not want to hear his opinion of those passages of the Bible. I think homosexuals have, in many cases, been wrongly treated by the Christian mainstream and that is sinful and terrible. But I also believe that trying to pretend that the Bible is pro homosexual is just plain silly. Calling people "pansy-asses" because they disagree with an inflammatory statement you make and walk out is a trait common in fundamentalism that you would gladly disparage, yet here you call them x-tians who should have, instead, stood up in the middle of his speech and began debating him even though it wasn't a debate.

In our society you must whole-heartedly agree with something or somehow you are full of fear and hate. I couldn't disagree more. To demand tolerance while being intolerant of people who disagree with you makes your argument invalid and reveals the hate and fear in your own heart. I have zero problem with Mr. Savage disagreeing with portions of Scripture, but does he have zero problem with me or anyone else disagreeing with him? Apparently not. If he wanted to make a valid point that was intended to spur thought and share why he had an issue with such passages, he could have. He didn't. He tried to shock and got his intended result which was to look like a lone crusader standing for truth in a room full of hateful bullys. Sad part is, many fell for it. Sadder than that is that a former fundamentalist would fall for it.

Should the students have walked out? I wouldn't have. Was Mr. Savage wrong to use such shocking and inflammatory language in a room full of students while trying to give an 'anti-bullying' speech? Martyrs come pretty cheap these days.

[lucrezaborgia]

Again, these students weren't a captive audience. They knew he is the creator of the "it Gets Better" project which is all about homosexuality and even features an Anglican bishop who is openly gay. Was he the best speaker for a teen event? Probably not. At the same time, I don't think those students did the smart thing if they are truly serious about journalism.

[Hollandmichigan]

(05-01-2012 06:45 AM)usernametaken Wrote:  

(04-30-2012 08:07 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:  Yeah...cuz walking out and not listening is totally going to prove your point or enable you to form a coherent argument.

Well, it got attention. If no one had walked out on this guy, people wouldn't have heard about this guy. Now his bullying is on display for everyone to see. I'm proud of those kids who walked out on that anti-bullying bully who bullies.

You obviously aren't familiar with DS. He's been been known for a few years for santorum.com and is also the creator of the It Gets Better project. He is already very well-known and, like a commenter on the other thread suggested, these people who walked out probably knew exactly what they were getting into and may have even plan ed this from the start. This was always going to attract a lot of attention, Peter labarbera was even in atte dance (and removed by a police officer for beligerance) from what i gather.

EDIT: rewatching the video, i cannot BELIEVE just how mischara terized it has become. Before he has a chance to say anything bad even about the bible, a girl can be seen leaving the auditorium. He then proceeds to point out the odd way in which the bible is cheery-picked by SOME christians to defame homosexuals. Never once does he express hatred toward christians (criticism of the bible does not, by the way, equal christian-bashing), and only proceeds to insult those who left (funny how the many people who stayed--some of whom may have been christian themselves--and applauded his remarks are complety ignored). An insult he even took the generous step to apologize for later. Those who say he was shrill must be watching a different video--i see a passionate, level-headed and mature humanbeing discussing something that is obviouy very important to him. Meanwhile, as he goes on to point out the many deaths that can be laid at the feet of anti-gay bigotry propigated by use of the scriptures, the only thing so many can seem to remember is that a gay called parts of the bible "bullshit". Ugh

[lucrezaborgia]

(05-02-2012 02:29 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  lots of awesome stuff

Well put. Exactly what me and SB were just now thinking when discussing this video.

[dramaturge]

(05-02-2012 02:29 PM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  

(05-01-2012 06:45 AM)usernametaken Wrote:  Well, it got attention. If no one had walked out on this guy, people wouldn't have heard about this guy. Now his bullying is on display for everyone to see. I'm proud of those kids who walked out on that anti-bullying bully who bullies.

You obviously aren't familiar with DS. He's been been known for a few years for santorum.com and is also the creator of the It Gets Better project. He is already very well-known and, like a commenter on the other thread suggested, these people who walked out probably knew exactly what they were getting into and may have even plan ed this from the start. This was always going to attract a lot of attention, Peter labarbera was even in atte dance (and removed by a police officer for beligerance) from what i gather.

EDIT: rewatching the video, i cannot BELIEVE just how mischara terized it has become. Before he has a chance to say anything bad even about the bible, a girl can be seen leaving the auditorium. He then proceeds to point out the odd way in which the bible is cheery-picked by SOME christians to defame homosexuals. Never once does he express hatred toward christians (criticism of the bible does not, by the way, equal christian-bashing), and only proceeds to insult those who left (funny how the many people who stayed--some of whom may have been christian themselves--and applauded his remarks are complety ignored). An insult he even took the generous step to apologize for later. Those who say he was shrill must be watching a different video--i see a passionate, level-headed and mature humanbeing discussing something that is obviouy very important to him. Meanwhile, as he goes on to point out the many deaths that can be laid at the feet of anti-gay bigotry propigated by use of the scriptures, the only thing so many can seem to remember is that a gay called parts of the bible "bullshit". Ugh

The highlighted bit is why I dislike the characterization of what he said as "bullying" and therefore hypocritical. The only thing he said that even remotely resembles bullying is calling those who left pansy a**ed. And he rightfully apologized for that bit. Nothing that he said about Bible was bullying toward Christians in general.

Totally off-topic:
I read this bit

Quote:mischara terized

about 5 times trying to figure out if this was some term I was expected to know, yiddish slang or something. Then I realised there was a random space. Then I felt dumb for reading that over with different emphases to try and figure out what it was. It is definitely the last few weeks of school. hahaha

[redbeardiam]

Interesting commentary: Is Dan Savage The Gay Santorum?

[mrmody]

Another interesting take on the story
http://johnshore.com/2012/04/29/dan-sava...the-truth/

[greg]

Dan Savage is a homosexual pervert, he should not be allowed to be around any children at any time.