Christian-phobic speaker walked out on by student journalists

[lucrezaborgia]

This wasn't just a general journalism conference held at a school. This was a special convention held in Seattle that you certainly had to have parental permission to go to. No one was forced to go to Dan Savage's speech and if you are familiar with his latest major project "It Get's Better" it would be very obvious to you why he used the comments he did. Now, he has apologized for calling the students pansy-assed, but he is refusing to take back his comments about how Christians pick and choose which verses to put forth in their lives, especially when it comes to homosexuality. Lawmakers are attempting to pass laws that would allow homosexual students to be bullied based on religious beliefs and he spoke about that.

Dan's profile was in the program and I can't imagine that parents had no idea about what he is about:

Quote:Dan Savage was already a popular syndicated columnist when he created the “It Gets Better” video project in 2010. He’ll speak at 1 p.m. on Friday, April 13, about alternative media, social media and creating a movement against bullying.

Moved to action by tragic gay teen suicides, Savage created the “It Gets Better” video project to show LGBT youth around the world that “it gets better.” The project asks people to make and upload short positive videos about their experiences about the LGBT community. Millions have viewed the videos and participated so far, including President Barack Obama and entertainer Janet Jackson. Advertising Age has called It Gets Better one of the top social media campaigns of 2010. His book is entitled, ‘It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying and Creating a Life Worth Living.”

In 2011, Savage won a Webby Special Achievement Award and was selected for Out magazine’s “Power 50″ and “Out 100″ lists, as well as O, The Oprah Magazine’s, “O Wow!” list of breakthrough achievers for his influential and inspiring work on “It Gets Better.” Savage is also a syndicated advice columnist. With his frank, funny advice on sex and relationships, he creates a safe space for all audiences to honestly discuss “taboo” topics.

http://seattle2012journalism.org/

http://jea.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/0...le_pgm.pdf

Can anyone find the full video because all I see is this one clip? Was this part of his speech or did someone ask him a question that prompted this talk about the bible?

[myotch]

Yes, lucre, it's obvious why he used the comments he used, and one does not have to read his books, his sex-advice blog, or his column to realize that bullied homosexuals are sympathetic characters in the social reality and drama of education.

The question remains if this man was an appropriate choice for speaking to an audience of high schoolers.

Can you name a proposed law seriously considered that would make it *more* lawful to bully a kid because of sexual orientation over, say, physical stature and supposed strength, perceived "coolness", perceived socio-economic class, or any number of thousands of reasons a few kids are bullied?

I would hypothesize any proposed measure that seemingly allows the bullying of homosexuals is, in fact, a measure to not create a special protected class. If everyone is truly equal, nobody can really be more equal than others.

I hate bullying. I really do. But to make it a crime? There's already criminal law addressing assault, and civil law addressing libel and defamation of character.

According to his accolades you posted, he certainly should have acted better and more appropriate for the age group he was addressing, his (welcome) apology notwithstanding.

[Ricardo]

(04-30-2012 03:56 PM)Mominator Wrote:  I find it curious that you took exception to what I said and not at what the speaker said especially since he called the Bible BS. Are you not called to defend YOUR beliefs as a Christian? You gave him a pass and not me and this guy IS a hypocrite.

OK. I finally had a chance to watch the video. The guy is an ass. I'm not giving him a pass. He could have said just about everything he said without having to alienate many of us.

I'm not sure what your definition of "hypocrite" is. I don't see anything hypocritical in him. He is consistent through and through.

I have no problem with anyone defending their beliefs. but you decided to attack as hypocritical anyone on the left. That, my dear is false witness.

Oh, it is also hypocritical.

[myotch]

Ricardo, I think "hypocrite" here is being used since, because he was a featured speaker addressing "anti-bullying", he was using abusive language, name-calling, while marginalizing a pretty good chunk of the audience over an obviously minority-held view. He used his anti-bullying platform to, in essence, bully.

[lucrezaborgia]

(04-30-2012 09:58 PM)myotch Wrote:  The question remains if this man was an appropriate choice for speaking to an audience of high schoolers.

Take that up with the parents who sent him and the organization who set up the event.

Quote:Can you name a proposed law seriously considered that would make it *more* lawful to bully a kid because of sexual orientation over, say, physical stature and supposed strength, perceived "coolness", perceived socio-economic class, or any number of thousands of reasons a few kids are bullied?

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo...153&ga=107

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/gues..._blog.html

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and...5b921.html

Quote:I would hypothesize any proposed measure that seemingly allows the bullying of homosexuals is, in fact, a measure to not create a special protected class. If everyone is truly equal, nobody can really be more equal than others.

...but homosexuals aren't equal in society and no one is making them more equal than others with anti-bullying legislation. Lots of hetero students have been targeted by abusive students and teachers for merely being perceived as homosexual. Should those bullies get a free pass just because they mistook someone's sexual orientation?

Quote:I hate bullying. I really do. But to make it a crime? There's already criminal law addressing assault, and civil law addressing libel and defamation of character.

I guess all those students who have suicided over bullying were perfectly protected by the laws already in place? How about African Americans before the 60's? I myself was bullied in HS way before there were laws and programs against it. The ONLY reason I got it stopped was because I had a progressive student counselor who forced the ringleader to come in for a one on one session. I've worked with children and teens in schools and anti-bullying programs are important. I know very well the literature in them and they do not make homosexuality a special class. The programs teach that any kind of demeaning language and behavior is not tolerated. Except as in the articles I linked above, certain groups want to hide behind their religious beliefs to be able to let them say whatever they want.

Quote:According to his accolades you posted, he certainly should have acted better and more appropriate for the age group he was addressing, his (welcome) apology notwithstanding.

He has a reputation for shooting off at the hip which is why I want to see the entire speech. Dan typically does Q&A style, not speeches.

[Ricardo]

(04-30-2012 10:17 PM)myotch Wrote:  Ricardo, I think "hypocrite" here is being used since, because he was a featured speaker addressing "anti-bullying", he was using abusive language, name-calling, while marginalizing a pretty good chunk of the audience over an obviously minority-held view. In essence, he used his anti-bullying platform to effectively bully.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I would now agree with your characterization of this guy as a hypocrite.

Now if you could explain how that makes anyone else on the left a hypocrite I would appreciate it.

[Ricardo]

And, by the way, he could have been a great addition to any anti-bullying event. Gayness or perceived gayness are the major excuse used for bullying.

He could have just as easily have found and used the biblical verses that encourage us as Christians to support the downtrodden to defend the persecuted, to stand up for the vilified.

Another missed opportunity.

[lucrezaborgia]

Marginalized? We have no idea how many students walked out as compared to how many stayed. How can you make that statement? Especially since we don't have the full video???

[Qrayze]

Did y'all watch the same video clip that I did??? 'cause I didn't see any bullying.

Did y'all see the expressions on the kid's faces as they walked out??? they looked pretty happy/mischievious/bored to me. If it wasn't a staged walk-out, you would've seen the look of disgust on each and every one of their faces.

Would homosexuality be wrong if the bible never said anything about it??? NO

Is slavery wrong even tho the bible endorses it??? YES

The point he was trying to make, albeit poorly, was that the bible should NEVER be the only reason something is right or wrong because IT HAS BEEN WRONG BEFORE. It is NOT inerrant.

But of course, all that the offended peoples hear are the words bullshit and pansyassed.

This further confirms my opinion that religious conservatives are unable to comprehend anything outside of their narrow minds. (Since they only heard bullshit and pansyassed, then they must surely be pansyassed and full of bullshit.)

FYI: EVERYONE IS A HYPOCRITE

[myotch]

(04-30-2012 10:19 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:  Take that up with the parents who sent him and the organization who set up the event.

Fair enough, I guess. On the other hand, this guy surely wasn't the only speaker at the event.

If I sent my son to a science event through his school, and Stephen Hawkings was a featured speaker, I guess my instinct would tell me his speech's highlight reel on youtube wouldn't be one of questioning student's religious ideologies. Maybe I'm naive.

Quote:http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo...153&ga=107

Thank you for actually responding to this question. Regarding this particular bill, could you please point out the language in the bill that allows gay-bashing?

Quote:http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/gues..._blog.html

From http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answ..._blog.html , another WaPost article condemning the law, points to the particular quote in the bill:

Quote:includes language inserted before the vote that says the bill “does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held belief or moral conviction” of a student or school worker.

You see license to bully. I see a reaffirmation of free speech that does not consider a "statement of sincere belief" to be bullying. So, I ask you, if a high school kid says "I believe homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible", is that bullying?

Quote:http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and...5b921.html

Not sure why this is included in your list. It's not about a bill that allows bullying. It's about a failed bill that would have outlawed bullying.

Quote:I would hypothesize any proposed measure that seemingly allows the bullying of homosexuals is, in fact, a measure to not create a special protected class. If everyone is truly equal, nobody can really be more equal than others.

Quote:...but homosexuals aren't equal in society and no one is making them more equal than others with anti-bullying legislation.

Um, yes. Homosexuals are, in fact, equal in society. In this society. They can vote, own property, and do everything pretty much that I can. They probably have disproportional amount of access to the media and entertainment, as well, and I'm not complaining.

Quote:Lots of hetero students have been targeted by abusive students and teachers for merely being perceived as homosexual. Should those bullies get a free pass just because they mistook someone's sexual orientation?

It would be helpful if we were to actually agree on the definition of bullying. Mine is limited to acts and threats of violence, intimidation, coercion, and harassment. I'm sure yours is more politically-influenced.

Quote:I hate bullying. I really do. But to make it a crime? There's already criminal law addressing assault, and civil law addressing libel and defamation of character.

Quote:I guess all those students who have suicided over bullying were perfectly protected by the laws already in place?

Yes...well, at least in places where there are laws against violence and threats of violence, coercion, intimidation, and harassment.

New law is a poor substitute for the lack of enforcement of established law.

Quote:How about African Americans before the 60's?

The enforcement of law has not always been applied equitably in this country. Yet, new law is a poor substitute for the lack of enforcement of established law.

Quote:I myself was bullied in HS way before there were laws and programs against it...

I feel ya. I was a theta male, once.

Again, I'm for the enforcement of established law wherever the situation applies. We don't need new criminal codes when the established ones apply.

Quote:He has a reputation for shooting off at the hip which is why I want to see the entire speech. Dan typically does Q&A style, not speeches.

So, providing a dais for this guy to speak to high schoolers was probably not well thought out?