Women teaching men?

[Bob M]

(04-24-2012 08:39 AM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 05:56 AM)Darrell Wrote:  Calling it "barbaric" and then saying you don't need God or the Bible to tell you so is rather begging the question.

Feel free to make your case to the best of your ability for or against the question but "I just inherently know that it's icky" isn't much of an argument.

Also, believing in specific roles for men and women isn't in any way analogous to racism. Conflating those issues only serves to muddy the waters.

But thats precisely the argument im making, that theres something inherently strange about a rule that bans otherwise qualified people from a position. Just imagine being in a church that believed men should not be able to teach women--it would be really weird. I really hate the argument that as humans we can't use our natural intuitions to guide ourselves in the world--thats exactly the cult-like mentality that keeps people from thinking for themselves.

Your logic is useless. Its not logic that people base their conviction in this area on. It is scripture. And since you do not believe Scripture, you have nothing to say that warrants a church giving a rats patootie what your opinion is.

[Hollandmichigan]

(04-24-2012 11:00 AM)Bob M Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 08:39 AM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  But thats precisely the argument im making, that theres something inherently strange about a rule that bans otherwise qualified people from a position. Just imagine being in a church that believed men should not be able to teach women--it would be really weird. I really hate the argument that as humans we can't use our natural intuitions to guide ourselves in the world--thats exactly the cult-like mentality that keeps people from thinking for themselves.

Your logic is useless. Its not logic that people base their conviction in this area on. It is scripture. And since you do not believe Scripture, you have nothing to say that warrants a church giving a rats patootie what your opinion is.

Well, given the kind of people they do lend an ear to i'll take that as a compliment. But i think youre ignoring a pretty wide swathe of christianity that is A: not so intolerant and B: does not take the bible so literally or seriously.

-edited for spelling

[Mommy2Kids]

At our former SBC church, my MIL taught the older adults' class for many years. She had a teacher's book and studied it every day of the week and did a great job when she stuck to the book.

[zeusTHEgoose]

I know I grew up in churches where it was unacceptable for women to teach over any number of men in a congregation, but the funny thing was it was never explained to me why. I was never explained as a child or a teen why women couldn't hold many authority positions in the church like senior pastor or elder. Internally, I never had a problem when a woman talked to me with authority or to another group of boys or men. I saw it as a person teaching another person. No biggie. It wasn't until I was like fifteen when I heard a preacher explain from the Bible why it was wrong for women to teach, preach, or hold any authority over any number of men. I remember thinking "say what?" when I first heard it. It was such a non-issue with me that to hear it from the mouth of a preacher was absolutely mind blowing.

I know that men and women serve in different capacities because they were created distinctly, but I also know that there exists a diversity that renders the norm unimportant. We have women who can teach with greater gifting than men and there are men who serve wonderfully in the nursery with the grace of a mother. It wasn't much of a biggie then, and it isn't much of a biggie now. Exceptions exist that we just have to deal with. Not sure if that makes me egalitarian or light complementarian.

[Bob M]

(04-24-2012 11:40 AM)Hollandmichigan Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 11:00 AM)Bob M Wrote:  Your logic is useless. Its not logic that people base their conviction in this area on. It is scripture. And since you do not believe Scripture, you have nothing to say that warrants a church giving a rats patootie what your opinion is.

Well, given the kind of people they do lend an ear to i'll take that as a compliment. But i think youre ignoring a pretty wide swathe of christianity that is A: not so intolerant and B: does not take the bible so literally or seriously.

-edited for spelling

I am not intolerant.
Wwhat kind of belief is that does not take the Bible seriously. Is it some kind of uber liberal Christianity? Even Liberals take the bible seriously, even though they may not believe it.

[Darrell]

I really would rather that this didn't devolve into a conversation on exegesis, textual criticism, and epistemology.

Let's try to get it back on track to the point of what exactly various groups think about women teaching men within the realm of Christian thought.

Hollandmichigan has posited that he doesn't need to use the Bible. Fair enough. And maybe there are Christian groups out there in varying degrees of orthodoxy who have abandoned the use of Scripture for some kind of led-by-whatever-I-feel-like position on issues. There's really not much to discuss there since all we can do is acknowledge that yes they do feel that way and yes we do beg to differ anyway. There's no real way to debate or discuss a feeling.

But for those of us who do still give the Bible a central place as part of our faith, what does it say? And how should we interpret that?

[redhot]

I know the Bible says for women to keep silent, but I think that might have been a cultural thing. Even in the most strict churches, they don't enforce absolute silence. I think most allow women to sing. If we truly will say that a woman should never discuss spiritual things with a male, then we should never witness to one either.
The Fundy U where I went had several guys who would not be on a bus route with a woman bus captain, because she was "in charge" and would make a schedule which he had to follow. Some of them also tried to get out of English or any other class with a woman teacher for the same reason.
Slightly off topic, but I was talking to a lady about head covering, and she said that she believes any time a woman discusses the Bible with a male, she should cover her head, so she wears a head covering to bed in case her son wakes up and has a bad dream and wants to pray. I really don't know to what Paul was referring, but this seems a bit extreme for me. I'm pretty sure that Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother. Maybe not in church, but it doesn't say they stopped talking about their faith when he turned 18 (or whatever age he became a man)
Our church won't let women teach Sunday School to boys over 5, but in the Christian school, all the elementary teachers are female and they teach Bible every day. And the kindergarten teacher does chapel for the whole elementary, but she wouldn't be able to teach those same boys on Sunday
As for women teaching in a mixed class in church, I personally don't have a problem with it, but that's probably because I'm rebellious and a "foolish woman"

[Naomi]

If I were looking for a church, I would only go to one where women were fully included in every part. Not only would I feel less than in a church where women could not be in charge or teach, I believe that there is excellent theological support for interpretations of both the Bible and church tradition that suggest women should be involved everywhere.

[Hollandmichigan]

My old fundy church allowed for women to do anything except preach. Or tea ch the male ss classes alone. So not as strict. Ive always thought churches with female pastors looked more fun and inviting

[Darrell]

Quote:I believe that there is excellent theological support for interpretations of both the Bible and church tradition that suggest women should be involved everywhere.

And I can definitely appreciate and respect that position (even while I'm still trying to work out my own position on the whole thing).