Buddhism, thoughts?

[beensetfree]

(04-24-2012 09:42 AM)elfdream Wrote:  Interesting observation about the feeling of 'peace'. I had a similar thing happen. I was driving up to my present church and I was not thinking of peace or anything in particular when whammo...it came suddenly out of nowhere. It was like I had walked through a wall and there was nothing but good things on the other side. I had not been taking any drugs and as I said was in a generic kind of mood.

To this day I have no idea why that happened...if it was something in my own head or if I literally had walked into something I could not see.

So that 'feeling' is not exclusive to Buddhist temples.

I've had those experiences too. I used to think one of the most peaceful places on earth was in NC. My friends parents are New Age Reiki practicians. They also follow the moon cycles and perform ritualistic dances around campfires. They are tee totalers, no drugs involved. We'd go up to their house in the woods and just listen to the wind in the trees and wonder at the peace. Their house had a feeling an almost magical quality that would surround you.

I've also had this feeling of peace at churches when we used to get into the "worship" music. Which was the point of that part of the service, to feel something.

I've also had feelings of peace after reading Scripture and prayer.

I'm not saying there isn't something to be said for it; But like I said before people can have false peace so I try not to base reality on my feelings.

[Shoes]

i read the 'I Ching' [Book of Changes] for a while. it was pretty cool stuff. really counter-intuitive to Western upbringing. but it was a good starting point

[lucrezaborgia]

I wouldn't use anything by Chopra to try to understand Buddhism. From what you wrote of the video, it is an extremely poor analysis. There really aren't Buddhist gods. Karma is more cultural than scriptual. It's not about doing good works so ypu don't go to hell. Brahmins are a Hindu caste. Overall the video you describes prosperity gospel repackaged for non-christians.

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEduc...hopra.html

[Ricardo]

Two things I like about Buddha are: First, he pretty much preached to check everything out, keep the good stuff. Second, he said don't believe anything I tell you. Check it out for yourself!

Tibetan Buddhism is the equivalent of Fundamentalist Buddhism. They look down on everyone else. (And not just because they live higher up than most of us..

For people who believe there are many ways to God, there are sure a ton of people out there preaching a very specific (buddhist) way or another.

I was always thrown by the buddhist monks I met earlier in my fundy days, when I told them that I believed the "correct" way was the Christian way, they all answered pretty much "that is fine, keep on doing that." (There was no way to win an argument with them... )

[lucrezaborgia]

Buddhism and other religions aren't incompatible when looking at it from a Buddhist perspective.

[beensetfree]

(04-24-2012 09:29 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:  I wouldn't use anything by Chopra to try to understand Buddhism. From what you wrote of the video, it is an extremely poor analysis. There really aren't Buddhist gods. Karma is more cultural than scriptual. It's not about doing good works so ypu don't go to hell. Brahmins are a Hindu caste. Overall the video you describes prosperity gospel repackaged for non-christians.

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEduc...hopra.html

I don't know why his so called quackery means he doesn't espouse Buddhism? That seemed to be an article taking on his methods of treatment and his claims but not his adherence or deviation from Buddhist teachings?

Buddhism and Ayurveda are complimentary teaching. There is more than one school of Buddhist teachings and sometimes there is an overlap between Buddhism and Hinduism. Early Buddhism seems to be what you are discussing? Deepak has also had a Western education and is able to cleverly appeal to a western mind with eastern concepts which is what you need to do to mass market.

Isn't achieving Nirvana or enlightenment the Hope of this philosophy? Buddhism seeks to alleviate suffering, correct? All humans suffer. Buddhism's teaching in The Four Noble Truths is pointing to alleviating "suffering" through enlightenment. I think that overcoming suffering by overriding "negative" behavior for the good of others is trying to achieve a relative morality no matter whether you think you are doing it for enlightenment or to move beyond the constraints of self.

(04-24-2012 11:13 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:  Buddhism and other religions aren't incompatible when looking at it from a Buddhist perspective.

You have to wipe your mind clean of any Judeo Christian teaching to grasp Buddhist concepts and ex Christians are generally looking for something that doesn't condemn. It requires a completely different worldview to accept. Or if a person has abandoned belief in God entirely Buddhism offers an alternative for life without God. It's highest idolatry for sinful man to think we can bring real peace apart from the Prince of Peace.

Let's say I decided to follow these teachings and still trust in Christ alone for my salvation. It's impossible, because ultimately I'd be trusting in my overcoming negative actions for assurance that I'm progressing. You can't syncretize Buddhism and Christianity, in Buddhism there's no need for Jesus' substitutionary work on the cross. You would have to drain it all of all biblical meaning and come up with a new reason for why he died and arose from the dead. I'd have to throw out the bible as God's Word and even my need for a Savior. Jesus claimed "I Am the Way, the TRUTH and the life." He either is or isn't, He's not an add-on to other philosophies and no philosophy can add to His work. The bible explains the cause of suffering and the One who conquered the cause of it. It would be self delusion for me to try and syncretize Buddhist pragmatism and still worship Christ. Holding up my morality to God will damn me and prove I knew His standard all along but since He requires perfection I'd rather count Christ as my righteousness and grounds for reconciliation. Any good I do even as a Christian isn't where I find peace. As much as I've suffered at least I know the reason and the Hope beyond it. Also, to know the suffering I've caused has also been forgiven is incredibly comforting. I think God's love is evidenced by His warnings about sin's punishment. I don't want to do away with that warning, it shows He loves us enough to warn us.
As a Christian I see in Hebrews 2 that Jesus conquered death and redeemed me from it and God's judgement, it even describes this in Hebrews 2:14-15 as "Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery." In me there is no "good" true self only a sinner who needs redemption.



I think you picked up on my contrasts between Buddhism and Christianity and it blurred the lines of what Deepak taught. It was my poor analysis that caused the confusion.

The Bible teaches about Hell, Deepak does not and did not in the videos. He does not talk about being good as a means of achieving a good afterlife. His way and Buddhism's way of overcoming death is to view it as natural. The Bible explains it is unnatural.
Deepak doesn't contrast good and evil. Good is only a relative thing but what are you supposed to contrast suffering with exactly? To alleviate suffering(bad) through enlightenment is becoming the true self which is inherently good, they think. I just pointed out that good must be ascertained somehow and it's ironic that we all have the same understanding of what it means. Jesus summed it up two ways. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself but he was distilling the Moral Law. Buddhism's teaching in The Four Noble Truths is pointing to alleviating "suffering" through enlightenment.

They don't use the word sin nor do they have it as a concept.
He describes life as "eternity" into which death is a part of it. To over come the fear of death is simple just realize that "life as an eternal flow that is neither loss nor gain only transformation." So that's reincarnation. I guess if you've eliminated God's judgement, sin and your culpability these concepts will work for you.


Deepak equates us to God in the sense that when we experience true "love" as in doing things for unselfish reasons there we have experienced God or the essence of this "idea" of God that we have. He's drawing from the Four Immeasurables in this sense. He doesn't view God as a being, the totality of the universe and our interconnectedness is as close as Buddhism gets to that concept.

Since Buddhism has at least two different schools he could technically borrow from both of them. All schools of buddhist thought do not have "gods" mentioned though some do and indeed they are not necessary and some would say are counter productive to consider. They don't ascribe creation or judgment capabilities to these gods. Where gods are mentioned they are not ascribed a place higher than humans. Deepak doesn't go into any discussions of this except redefining God as love, not a divine being. They don't need nor desire a cosmology or beginning of humanity or a personal Creator for their philosophy to work.

I don't want to misrepresent Deepak, he may blend some things but Buddhism does allow for that since much Eastern thought does have overlap, especially when dealing with holistic medicine. But he does teach Buddhism even if he syncretizes it with western pragmatism, yoga, Ayurveda, New Age, western science and even his idea of Jesus as an "enlightened" human. Deepak even wrote books on Buddha and Jesus.

Now I have to go study more but that's fine since my Father in Law likes to talk about this with me quite spiritedly so maybe there's a reason for me to understand further.

You know the John Lennon song, "Imagine"? I'm one of those people who doesn't like to imagine the world he posits because I'd have to give up Jesus. Same for Buddhism.

[elfdream]

Quote:I try not to base reality on my feelings.

Neither do I. I don't claim that feeling was anything but strange. It would have made more sense had I actually been in church or some other kind of conducive environment besides in my car though.

I had another similar experience and this one took place in a graveyard. Husband and I were doing some family research and before we left I prayed the prayer for the dead that I always do "Eternal rest grant to them O Lord and may perpetual light shine upon them. May they rest in peace'. I do this all the time. Nothing ever happens and I didn't expect anything and once again...whammo. This was more a feeling of love though and images of everyone and everything I loved flashed before my eyes...even my cats! Once again it might well have been something in my own head. I have no idea WHAT happened. I just know that something DID happen.

Quote:Buddhism and other religions aren't incompatible when looking at it from a Buddhist perspective.

From what I have read Buddhists believe ALL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES ARE VALID. They don't go around looking for converts. I think their attitude is 'if you are a Christian be a good Christian'.

[lucrezaborgia]

I think Daisy would be better to response to set-free. I'm not that knowledgeable to answer their post in my current state of mine, but I still think that you are conflating Enlightenment with a reward for good behavior.

In a way tho, don't Christians behave because god tells us to? Buddhism says we should behave because it's the right thing to do.

[beensetfree]

(04-25-2012 11:20 AM)lucrezaborgia Wrote:  I think Daisy would be better to response to set-free. I'm not that knowledgeable to answer their post in my current state of mine, but I still think that you are conflating Enlightenment with a reward for good behavior.

In a way tho, don't Christians behave because god tells us to? Buddhism says we should behave because it's the right thing to do.

This is my opinion : I think that wanting to overcome suffering or imperfection and it's effects it by correcting "negative" behavior, thoughts, or energy even if it's for the good of others you're still on the path to a relative morality. It's no matter whether you think you are doing it for enlightenment or to move beyond the constraints of self. There's a cause for suffering, there is a reason this world is imperfect and they are trying their own way to get away from it or rise above it with meditation.

I don't think I'm confused about why a Buddhist would say they do what they do. I don't think I'm confusing Enlightenment, Nirvana or Karma with reward though it may look that way.

I just don't think anyone has a true self that is inherently good, except Jesus. So even thinking that somehow you're on the path to becoming an enlightened human acting out of pure motive is ludicrous.

But to even navigate towards an idea of "suffering" vs. "enlightened" how do we begin to distinguish between the two on an objective level without morality? And where does morality come from? The problem here, for me, is that I'm supposed to think in a new paradigm to deal with Buddhism but Buddhist's are still hijacking the law of God written on all men's hearts to define good. Even trying to do things unselfishly as opposed to selfishly creates a dichotomy. Why should it even matter in their system?

Observation of what selfishness causes still does not explain why people are selfish. If people want to believe that deep down they are really good and can achieve pure enlightenment and do all things with free, unencumbered good intention then go ahead and try to be one with the Universe. I believe the Universe is a created thing and does not welcome people or other finite beings into itself in endless cycles to rebirth them into a new stage of being until they are enlightened.

My prayer for my loved ones is to never find that kind of false peace in thinking they've achieved it. Because to understand Jesus and what He is all about requires us to see ourselves in the real condition we are in.

I don't really know you're background so I'm going to explain why as a Christian I might sometimes have moral behavior.
If I as a Christian manage to "behave" in a manner corresponding to God's perfectly righteous standard, which I desire to and fail at miserably, it's only because my hope is in Jesus. In baptism I was put into His death and am counted righteous by His work and sealed by the Holy Spirit; I'm anticipating final Redemption. In the New Testament Christians are generally given admonishments that start with "Therefore"... What precedes the "Therefore" is the Gospel, it's what sets me free to serve God and my neighbor without fear of whether my actions themselves are perfect enough, they are not meritorious. The Gospel makes me listen to the therefore with a new mind towards what's being said.
I'm not under condemnation, I'm free to confess my sins of not measuring up and know I'm forgiven. I Jn. 3-1-3. I am both sinner and saint in one sense. My heart has gone from being estranged from God to becoming His Child. My salvation is accomplished but I'm still stuck with sinful flesh for the time being and it has it's own desires contrary to the Spirit. So yes, I do desire to obey the LORD because He tells me to and because as a Christian with Faith in Christ it's the right way to honor Him. Without Faith it's impossible to please God. Outside of Faith trying following those teachings would be damning. I'm not scared of God in a dictatorial way but a reverential one, I'm His child and want to love others with the Love He has shown me through Jesus Christ. I'm not doing these things to win favor from God.

Buddhists say Nirvana is the end of Suffering? And enlightenment is understanding in an intuitive beyond knowledge of being interconnected with the Universe and everything?

Jesus is my end to suffering, indeed the suffering of the world and John 1:3 says"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." As a Christian I guess you could say that since I am in Christ I have come to terms with all things, since He is the Creator. One day He will truly remake the heavens and Earth and give me a glorified, sinless body. I'll be able to know Jesus as He is. I Jn. 3-1-3. I look forward to being with people in that context, interacting with other Christians in this life we strive to act graciously and we still struggle. It's a wonderful hope.

Are Buddhists more honorable in the eyes of man because they act the way they do for a more noble reason? A purer reason? Possibly, it's probably far less offensive than an imperfect person talking about a bloody cross.

At the end of the day Buddhism is a philosophical world view. I can see what's attractive about it. It goes well with the Po Mo subjectivism of the time.

I'm sure Daisy could set me straight if I've misrepresented something. She knows her stuff. Hey Daisy, if you read this I'll be in Greenville in early June. Send me a PM if you feel like meeting!

[zeusTHEgoose]

I found this video to be quite interesting:





From what he says, it sounds to me Buddhism is more like a meditative philosophy than a religion. Kinda like yoga in the US: mainly used for reducing stress and freeing the mind of negativity. In that sense, I don't see why a Christian couldn't practice the mind training philosophies of Buddhism, so long as no worship of Buddha is involved. But again, it sounds like worship of any deity is non-existent in Buddhism.