A Fundamentalist View of Hell

[oneflewoutofthecuckcoosnest]

(04-17-2012 08:27 PM)TurningIntoDavid Wrote:  OneFlewOut: I pray that justice is restorative. I think God's version of justice is restorative. At least,

I hope so.

Me too

[dramaturge]

(04-18-2012 05:54 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  I've had this theory that Arminianism ultimately leads to universalism to those who were intellectually honest to not just believe everything their church teaches. I think the ex-fundies here are adding weight to that theory.

If we get a ticket to heaven based on a decision and not getting the opportunity sends you to hell then that's a pretty sorry doctrine, imho. Some people see this and go to universalism because it's much more palatable and defends the doctrine of "God's is love" and some become Calvinists.

I'm not disputing that some people hold to non-Calvinistic positions honestly nor am I saying they just believe what they were told to believe per se. I think some do. I think those who have really considered it and don't progress on to universalism live with a really horrible tension and I don't know how they do it. I don't know how you could sleep at night knowing all these souls were resting in the balance of one decision and they just need a chance to make the right choice. If that was all there was I'd be a universalist also.

Indeed. I think this is precisely why the guilt trips work to get people into "full time Christian ministry," and why so many people either burn completely out or in essence abandon their own families to be "busy for the Lord." I'm pretty sure Jesus's yoke isn't meant to weigh us down with the burden of all those souls.

[TurningIntoDavid]

I posted this a few pages ago but it was in one of my TLDR-style posts. I'm like... a 4-point calvinist.

Total Depravity (in the no-one-can-come-unless-the-Father-draw-him sense)
Unconditional Election
_...Oh wait. No Limited atonement.
Irresistible Grace
Perseverence of the saints.

Calvinist is one point away from some versions of Universal Reconciliation.

And if you mix and match Calvinism just right with Arminianism and decide they were right about Calvin being wrong about limited atonement.. shazam. Instant recipe for UR.

[TurningIntoDavid]

I just wanted to say... I feel like this conversation has gotten incredibly civil and generous. You guys are incredibly accepting of people who disagree with you. It almost feels like family. More like playing chess with my brother than fighting for my very soul.

I feel like i've had an opportunity to get my say in. I feel like i've been listened to. I've got a ton more arguments, but I don't feel like I have this deep-seated need to put them forth anymore, because although you guys have been great at posting ripostes (if that's the right word), nobody here has told me that i'm a terrible person or i'm going to hell or i'm endangering other people of going to hell or i'm not a christian or anything crazy like that.

i feel validated. Like i can be who i am and nobody is going to bang me over the head or freak out until i get my theology straightened out. I still love a good debate... but now I don't feel like my acceptance here is riding on my being right about this issue, or about anything.

Maybe it never was anywhere else, either.

Shalom.

[exOBCstudent]

(04-19-2012 01:13 AM)TurningIntoDavid Wrote:  I just wanted to say... I feel like this conversation has gotten incredibly civil and generous. You guys are incredibly accepting of people who disagree with you. It almost feels like family. More like playing chess with my brother than fighting for my very soul.

I feel like i've had an opportunity to get my say in. I feel like i've been listened to. I've got a ton more arguments, but I don't feel like I have this deep-seated need to put them forth anymore, because although you guys have been great at posting ripostes (if that's the right word), nobody here has told me that i'm a terrible person or i'm going to hell or i'm endangering other people of going to hell or i'm not a christian or anything crazy like that.

i feel validated. Like i can be who i am and nobody is going to bang me over the head or freak out until i get my theology straightened out. I still love a good debate... but now I don't feel like my acceptance here is riding on my being right about this issue, or about anything.

Maybe it never was anywhere else, either.

Shalom.

That's good news to us who are trying to heal and recover from those very traits we picked up or experienced in Fundamentalism. You'll find that there are MANY viewpoints from members on this site so some folks actually DO get flamed more than others.

You haven't come across as preachy or abrasive so that IMO is why nobody is really giving you a hard time.

[Presbygirl]

(04-19-2012 01:13 AM)TurningIntoDavid Wrote:  I just wanted to say... I feel like this conversation has gotten incredibly civil and generous. You guys are incredibly accepting of people who disagree with you. It almost feels like family. More like playing chess with my brother than fighting for my very soul.

I feel like i've had an opportunity to get my say in. I feel like i've been listened to. I've got a ton more arguments, but I don't feel like I have this deep-seated need to put them forth anymore, because although you guys have been great at posting ripostes (if that's the right word), nobody here has told me that i'm a terrible person or i'm going to hell or i'm endangering other people of going to hell or i'm not a christian or anything crazy like that.

i feel validated. Like i can be who i am and nobody is going to bang me over the head or freak out until i get my theology straightened out. I still love a good debate... but now I don't feel like my acceptance here is riding on my being right about this issue, or about anything.

Maybe it never was anywhere else, either.

Shalom.

Glad to hear it! . I have felt the same way here, and strive to be generous and kind while being confident in what I believe. HOWEVER, I want to live in peace with all men as much as possible. But, good debate/discussion is healthy and spurs us on to be better followers of Christ and better people in general.