Trayvon Martin

[greg]

(04-26-2012 06:28 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  Does that make Obama a white African American? Or how about a Black Caucasian?

22 years on the road police work, filed thousands of CCRE cards, never, ever did I refer to a Hispanic as Hispanic/white, they make it up as they go along Don!!

Uh-oh, I feel a cop story coming on!!! The last major case I worked, I responded to a shots fired call in a bad neighborhood, upon arrival I found a young hispanic male curled up on the living room floor with a gunshot wound to his groin, barely missing, you can guess, (shooters were gone) anyway, the gunplay went down out in the yard. 4 hispanics from a neighboring city had some sort of beef with the victim and two of his buddies. Anyhoo, I found the only spent cartridge in the yard and thought for sure I would be coming to court after my retirement date to testify, but fortunately I didn't have to go!! What's this got to do with anything? Nothing really, I'm just reminiscing Well beside the fact that they were all hispanic and not white/hispanic, btw, there may well be police agencies that have gone to that, been out of the game for three years, but until Martin/Zimmerman I had never heard of it.

[redbeardiam]

(04-26-2012 07:02 PM)Donb123 Wrote:  I find these types of sub-divisions to be rather unhelpful. I don't really need to identify myself as american-welsh-angle-saxon-nordic .. whatever else kind of crazy mixed up mongrel I am. I'm just a human being. Hat tip to MLK- I'd rather people be judged based on character and not color. I suppose if you wanted a reason to beat up white people the fact that Zimmerman is part "white" might be useful in your evil cause. Perhaps it was his "Hispanic" side that pulled the trigger

Seems to me that all the reasons to point out Zimmerman's race in the shooting were to justify racist reaction. Race shouldn't be a factor because that's Orwellian thought crime b.s. Lawful or unlawful killing is all that mattered here.

Agreed that lawful or unlawful killing is the issue.

Also agreed that people should be judged on character, not color. I think it's also wise to acknowledge we have a long and complicated history with race in the U.S. that still informs the way people think about themselves and each other.

[Donb123]

"Also agreed that people should be judged on character, not color. I think it's also wise to acknowledge we have a long and complicated history with race in the U.S. that still informs the way people think about themselves and each other."

You are correct. There's some really old history of racial segregation that people of my father's generation remember and I don't.

I'm tired of people thinking in such small terms as pigment. I think that's mssed up.. but then I'm sure I am too.

[Bill]

(04-26-2012 07:22 PM)greg Wrote:  [quote='Donb123' pid='87569' dateline='1335482886']
Does that make Obama a white African American? Or how about a Black Caucasian?
[/Well beside the fact that they were all hispanic and not white/hispanic, btw, there may well be police agencies that have gone to that, been out of the game for three years, but until Martin/Zimmerman I had never heard of it.

Before anyone gets too silly over this, in Florida there are certain parts of the Hispanic population who are very dark skinned (predominantly Cuban and Dominican ancestry). It's an important distinction in descriptors here. I'm sure it isn't as universally applied, but it is needed in our diverse population.

[elfdream]

I thought they were all Latinos? Unless their ancestry came from Spain of course.

[greg]

I have not followed the case closely, but O'Reilly reported last night that the Dr's report was released by the prosecutors listing Zimmerman's injuries, which included, busted head, broken nose, two black eyes, asst bruises and abrasions. I didn't realize that Martin was 6'2" most of the pictures that I have seen he looks like a kid maybe 5'2", also released was information that as Zimmerman was being beaten, he yelled for help 14 times.

Geraldo was commenting on the case with O'Reilly and said that there is absolutely no way that they can convict Zimmerman on 2nd degree murder. Also there are apparently two eyewitnesses to the "fight" between these two.

Whatever happened it is still terribly unfortunate that this young man lost his life, but as more facts come to light, it does not appear that Martin was as "innocent" as he was first portrayed......almost forgot, it is reported that Martin did have marijuana in his system.

[Bill]

(05-19-2012 10:30 AM)greg Wrote:  Geraldo was commenting on the case with O'Reilly and said that there is absolutely no way that they can convict Zimmerman on 2nd degree murder.

Señor Greg,
While I generally dislike both of those guys (and view them as bloviating clowns), they are correct. The prosecution cannot win.

[Bill]

Drop George Zimmerman’s murder charge 
New evidence suggests Trayvon Martin's killer acted in self-defense

BY ALAN DERSHOWITZ / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Published: Friday, May 18, 2012, 3:55 AM
Updated: Friday, May 18, 2012, 3:55 AM


A medical report by George Zimmerman’s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman — if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.

There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.

She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had “a full face picture” of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed “a bloodied nose.” The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head.

This Feb. 27, 2012 photo released by the State Attorney's Office shows George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin, with blood on the back of his head. The photo and reports were among evidence released by prosecutors that also includes calls to police, video and numerous other documents. 
But none of this was included in any affidavit.

Now there is much more extensive medical evidence that would tend to support Zimmerman’s version of events. This version, if true, would establish self-defense even if Zimmerman had improperly followed, harassed and provoked Martin.

A defendant, under Florida law, loses his “stand your ground” defense if he provoked the encounter — but he retains traditional self-defense if he reasonably believed his life was in danger and his only recourse was to employ deadly force.

RELATED: TRAYVON'S DEATH WAS 'AVOIDABLE,' POLICE REPORT SAYS

Thus, if Zimmerman verbally provoked Martin, but Martin then got on top of Zimmerman and banged his head into the ground, broke his nose, bloodied his eyes and persisted in attacking Zimmerman — and if Zimmerman couldn’t protect himself from further attack except by shooting Martin — he would have the right to do that. (The prosecution has already admitted that it has no evidence that Zimmerman started the actual fight.)

RELATED: EVIDENCE MIXED FOR ZIMMERMAN'S SELF-DEFENSE CLAIM

This is a fact-specific case, in which much turns on what the jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt. It must resolve all such doubts in favor of the defendant, because our system of justice insists that it is better for 10 guilty defendants to go free than for even one innocent to be wrongfully convicted.

You wouldn’t know that from listening to Corey, who announced that her jobs was “to do justice for Trayvon Martin” — not for George Zimmerman.

As many see it, her additional job is to prevent riots of the sort that followed the acquittal of the policemen who beat Rodney King.

Indeed, Mansfield Frazier, a columnist for the Daily Beast, has suggested that it is the responsibility of the legal system to “avert a large scale racial calamity.” He has urged Zimmerman’s defense lawyer to become a “savior” by brokering a deal to plead his client guilty to a crime that “has him back on the streets within this decade.”

But it is not the role of a defense lawyer to save the world or the country. His job — his only job — is to get the best result for his client, by all legal and ethical means.

RELATED: TRAYVON MARTIN HAD MARIJUANA IN HIS SYSTEM THE NIGHT HE WAS SHOT

Listen to the way a famous British barrister put it in 1820:

“An advocate, by the sacred duty which he owes his client, knows, in the discharge of that office, but one person in the world, that client and none other . . . Nay, separating even the duties of a patriot from those of an advocate, and casting them, if need be, to the wind, he must go on reckless of the consequences, if his fate it should unhappily be, to involve his country in confusion for his client’s protection.”

The prosecutor’s job is far broader: to do justice to the defendant as well as the alleged victim. As the Supreme Court has said: “The government wins . . . when justice is done.”

Zimmerman’s lawyer is doing his job. It’s about time for the prosecutor to start doing hers.

Dershowitz, a defense attorney, is a professor at Harvard Law School.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/drop-...z1vL8xlrY0

[C_Fresh]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerma...d=16616864

I still don't know exactly where I fall in this case but everything coming to light is pushing me further towards the Zimmerman side. I'm honestly concerned that this is going to end up being another 'Nifong' prosecution. Facts be damned, lets prosecute the guy!

If it turns out that Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin then I think he should fry. If he was trying to protect his community and got jumped while heading back to his car that sounds like straight-up self defense to me.