Why?

[exIFB]

I don't really care if you were motivated to run to Christ from fear of hell. Fear is a decent motivator for people to run to Christ. But it's not going to teach you to love, have compassion, be merciful etc. If the only reason you are a Christian, and I mean the ONLY reason, is to escape hell, perhaps you need to reconsider who Jesus Christ is, and how much he deserves YOU, since he bought you with His own blood.

I know my motivation was fear of hell. But it's not anymore. Jesus is so lovely, so gracious, a friend indeed, and I have received great grace and favour and mercy from my heavenly Father. That is why I continue to draw close to him, because of who He is.

Edit: I may have missed the entire point of this discussion....

[Smith]

The Gospel is Christ's death on behalf of my sins and the burial and ressurection on my behalf to defeat death. Why? Because I needed it. It's really that simple.

[dthatcher]

I guess God always seems detached. exIFB, you talk about some mystical communion it seems. I just never had that. I try to ascribe blessings to God but it is always so arbitrary, especially in light of the fact that the overwhelming majority of my prayers go unanswered. I look around me and see unbelievers who are really good people. So I ask why.

[exIFB]

I guess "mystical communion" is an inadequate description, but it's a start. It's not magic. It's just that I read about who he is, although lately, I haven't read a lot, and believe it. I don't always "feel" his presence, in fact, I rarely do, and when I do, I tend to ignore it, since my fundies days told me "don't trust in feelings", so I've numbed myself to many things. but I trust that He knows what I need and when I need it.

Your questions are good, and sometimes I think "why" too. I look around and see "good" people too. And they are good in comparison to others, self included. But we don't know their motivation, we don't know their sin, we don't know their heart. God truly does. Morality and ethics has nothing to do with salvation and being a Christian. Having morals and ethics is just human nature.

[LutheranEmily]

I have always believed in God, being raised Roman Catholic.

I believe I was saved back then and if someone had explained to my why we did those rituals and things, I would have not left the church to "get saved".. (the term bugs me)

However, I did leave the church and took a bunch of detours and made a lot of stops along the way, but never did I doubt that Christ died for my sin.

I simply cannot believe that all of life and everything we experience is an accident and Christianity seems the most plausible because of what was actually passed on.. namely, the resurrection.

[LutheranEmily]

Actually... I should stop and say that fundyland did make me doubt the gospel. Before I was a fundy, I didn't doubt that Christ died for my sin. Once I hung out in fundyland for a while, I wasn't good enough to save. I doubted my salvation all the time. Fundamentalism is really harmful.

[Smith]

(01-31-2011 07:01 PM)dthatcher Wrote:  I guess God always seems detached. exIFB, you talk about some mystical communion it seems. I just never had that. I try to ascribe blessings to God but it is always so arbitrary, especially in light of the fact that the overwhelming majority of my prayers go unanswered. I look around me and see unbelievers who are really good people. So I ask why.

"I guess God always seems detached" - Understandable

"especially in light of the fact that the overwhelming majority of my prayers go unanswered." - One thing that is often overlooked is "no" is an answer just as much as a "yes" is an answer. I can honestly say that many of my prayers go unanswered (read: no) because looking back, my motivation wasn't wasn't correct or it really would have been a detriment rather than a blessing.

One thing is certain, God is God and He isn't a cosmic killjoy.

[dthatcher]

(01-31-2011 07:38 PM)Smith Wrote:  One thing that is often overlooked is "no" is an answer just as much as a "yes" is an answer.

I've been a Christian for 24 years. I heard this again and again. There just comes a point where it doesn't fly anymore. When I ask God for a new job and he doesn't answer. When I ask God in the middle of the night to calm my baby son's crying and he doesn't answer. When I ask God to give my wife an opportunity to take a nap because the kids haven't let her get one all week and he doesn't answer. When I ask God to help my mother find a job that's not call center work so she can settle down and have some stability and he doesn't answer. There's a million little things I used to ask God for everyday that God COULD have granted as small tokens of his love and grace but when I'm honest with myself, he hasn't, because the times things went well were limited to what one would expect from typical probability.
And then I ask God to show me himself and give me a sense of his presence and he doesn't. And I throw myself into a strict Bible reading and prayer schedule because that's what every preacher I have had insists I have to do and after two months it just falls apart, I don't feel any closer, and my prayers are not being answered in any noticeable way...

[Sammy]

I'm a Christian because it gives my life a purpose. If Christ wasn't the Savior, if there were no God, then this whole universe exists for the sole point of existing without a purpose.

Christ is my life, now. He defines who I am. I don't deserve a single thing I own: from the ability to walk and run to the various specialized skills I have.

Something I don't understand is why people give themselves credit when things are good, and God gets the blame when things are bad. Ever heard of Job?

Who says that we deserve answers to our prayers, anyway? It's called contentment. I'm happy knowing that I have eternal life. I don't need (or deserve) anything else.

[Smith]

(02-01-2011 12:26 PM)dthatcher Wrote:  

(01-31-2011 07:38 PM)Smith Wrote:  One thing that is often overlooked is "no" is an answer just as much as a "yes" is an answer.

I've been a Christian for 24 years. I heard this again and again. There just comes a point where it doesn't fly anymore. When I ask God for a new job and he doesn't answer. When I ask God in the middle of the night to calm my baby son's crying and he doesn't answer. When I ask God to give my wife an opportunity to take a nap because the kids haven't let her get one all week and he doesn't answer. When I ask God to help my mother find a job that's not call center work so she can settle down and have some stability and he doesn't answer. There's a million little things I used to ask God for everyday that God COULD have granted as small tokens of his love and grace but when I'm honest with myself, he hasn't, because the times things went well were limited to what one would expect from typical probability.
And then I ask God to show me himself and give me a sense of his presence and he doesn't. And I throw myself into a strict Bible reading and prayer schedule because that's what every preacher I have had insists I have to do and after two months it just falls apart, I don't feel any closer, and my prayers are not being answered in any noticeable way...

Mr. Thatcher,
Of the millions of things you asked God for, how many of those you could have done yourself? I'm not trying to belittle your thoughts or anything like that. What I am trying to do is maybe get you to consider is that many things we ask for are things we are capable of influencing or doing ourselves. Also, the things that did go to your advantage, it happened because God blessed you; you strike it up to probability...who provided the means to wich probability could be measured? To be sure, man was valiant enough to provide the verbage and nomenclature, but God provided the means and circumstances to measure probability. So, looking past probability, God blessed you. I know it may not be easy to hear, but Paul says we should be content in our circumstances...I had to learn that as well as everyone else and some people are still learning. If you've applied yourself to study and prayer and you're convinced that this isn't the issue, maybe submission to what you already know that is in the Word? Just some thoughts.

Mike