Where do I find it?

[beensetfree]

Agree or disagree?

"I keep telling myself, the Lord knows where we are supposed to live, it's just up to us to find it."

When people say things like this it reminds me eerily of the "find God's perfect plan for your life or miss His best". The person saying this is not even a little fundy but totally evangelical.

To me it is a very discouraging statement.

I now tend to think now that this kind of idea results from mystical thinking about God not Scriptural revelation. Growing up Charismatic where people so often wanted the miraculous this kind of thinking makes sense to me. But really, if the Infinite, Omnipotent, Omniscient and Perfect God revealed to me in the Scriptures is hiding things from me; I'm probably not going to figure out where it is.

I see the Scriptures now where God promises to provide all my needs. But that doesn't mean we don't apply for jobs or get degrees or learn a trade or do research on which car to buy.
But we can still confidently pray, "Thy will be done, give us this day our daily bread." In this prayer we are being moved to trust in Him alone to provide for our needs. We may have to trust and pray for a long time for some things because the answer is in His timing. But this Scriptural way of thinking about God's provision and believing that He does provide has helped me. And I do absolutely believe that God works in miraculous ways but...

I also think God gives us freedom to choose and use wisdom based on our finances and family needs. And I think that God works through ordinary means in a providential way.
Even in the NT we see Paul taking up offerings and admonishing Christians to care for one another, that's an example of God providing for needs using ordinary means.
That doesn't diminish my view of God's miraculous provision for my life.

[pastor's wife]

I agree with what you said, beensetfree.

Some people like the excitement and the mysticism of the "magical" search for God's "special place" for them. But for realists or pessimists, it can be discouraging and a temptation to fatalism.

My dad, as fundy as they come, gave me some great advice when I was panicking about where to go to college. He said that if my heart's desire was truly to obey God, I should make the wisest decision I could based on research, advice, preferences, etc. God could work THROUGH my choices, directing me that way, or He could STOP me and close a door if I was headed in a "wrong direction", but He didn't want me hestitating in fear and worry lest I choose wrongly in some mysterious heavenly game of chance.

Another weakness in the idea that "God has something special for me; I just have to find it" is that sometimes people use it as an excuse to get out of the situation they're in. For example, they marry thinking they've found the right person. But then life gets hard and the excitement of romantic love fades and instead of seeking to woo their spouse and renew love, they decide, "I must have made a mistake. THIS person wasn't God's perfect will for me! I gave up too soon! Now I'm justified in leaving my spouse so I can go out and try to find the person God REALLY wanted for me!!!" Even if they don't get divorced, they can view their spouse with bitterness, feeling like they settled for God's second-best instead of God's first choice.

I just think for some personalities that type of thinking that you described can lead to desperation or apathy.

[Ricardo]

Partly, it has to do with temperament.

This past Summer, through work, I took the Hermann course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrmann_Br...Instrument

It is truly amazing to see how people from the four different modes of thinking analyze reality in totally different ways, and come up with different solutions.

The solution created by a Logical, factual, critical person may not appeal to a person who is holistic, intuitive, conceptual.

The problem is that we react just like Peter reacted when Jesus came down from the transfiguration experience. "This is it." Peter said. "Let's build a church here, a museum, sell tickets, bottle the water, sell relics."

I am most definitely a combination of "Interpersonal" and "Imaginative" thinker. So that the solutions that the "Analitical" and "Sequential" thinkers come up with, leave me cold.

Guess what?

That is roughly the divide between charismatics and non-charismatics. One side complains the other is "cold" in The Spirit. The other side responds that they are weak in Scripture.

Can't we all get along?

Not if we are insisting on claiming that it is OUR way or the highway. [Christianese: "HIS way or the highway."]

The argument that if you do not believe as I do, trust in (Spirit/Word) then (anything goes/you can manipulate scripture to mean anything) is roughly the same argument. Both are right, both are wrong.

Some of us need to have it all analyzed, mapped out.Others would rather be surprised.

Which one is the right way? MINE of course!

[GraceThruFaith]

The second best book I ever read in my life is Decision Making and the Will of God by Garry Friesen.

If you're looking for a summary of that book for free and written into course notes and handouts, you can visit The Objective Gospel (not affiliated)

The idea of an individual will of God for every detail of a person’s life is not found in Scripture. The best way to imagine the traditional view is like a target with a dot in the middle, the dot signifying God's perfect individual will for your life. Anything outside the dot may be fine, but you still missed the perfect plan God had for you. Does Scripture teach the Dot? Friesen says no and has an entire chapter dissecting the common verses that people use to prove the Dot.

Several of my favorite quotes from the book:

The problem with the traditional view is not that it recognizes the reality of inner impressions, but that it requires too much of them. Since it is impossible to define with certainty either their source or their meaning, it is also impossible to derive from them objective guidance to the “right” decision. God’s Word does not grant authority to subjective sources of knowledge. We must not either.

We should be able to explain and defend our final decision on the basis of moral guidance (“God’s Word says…”) and wisdom guidance (“It seemed best…”)

The traditional view has inadvertently invented a new category of revelation and authority

Inner impressions are not supernatural revelation, nor are they authoritative

According to the Bible, the only aspect of God’s will that must be known, the only aspect that can be known, is God’s moral will. And 100% of God’s moral will – not 80%, not 90%, but 100% – has been revealed in the Bible.

God’s Word does not tell us what to decide in every situation; it teaches us how to come to a decision that is acceptable to God.

Human success is not automatic proof, or Jeremiah was never in God’s will. When Paul and Silas obeyed the Macedonian call, they were beaten and thrown in jail…The traditional view has no other basis for defining confirmation.

God is more concerned about who we are than what we do; He focuses more on our character than our conduct. We want to know what God wants us to do; God wants us to know Him.

[Ricardo]

"According to the Bible, the only aspect of God’s will that must be known, the only aspect that can be known, is God’s moral will. And 100% of God’s moral will – not 80%, not 90%, but 100% – has been revealed in the Bible."

See, this is the type of position that drives me crazy.

When we limit God to a specific list of books. (Five major lists, to be more accurate.)
When we unilaterally declare one of these lists to be God's list, inerrant and infallible.
When we decide on one specific collection of manuscripts or another, and give it that mantle of "God's own."
So, when the publishing houses finally develop the courage to drop the last thirteen verses of Mark, will that mean that the percentage will go from 100% to 99.7%? (or maybe it was 102% before and...)

God most certainly can be found in the pages of the bibles. (All of them.)

But 100% of God's moral will has been revealed to us through every possible avenue. I keep harping on Rom 1:19-20. but elsewhere in the bibles we read that even the rocks would clamor for Justice.


If the only reason you know "Jesus loves you" is because "the bible tells you so," we are in deep trouble.

[GraceThruFaith]

(03-01-2012 11:40 AM)Ricardo Wrote:  "According to the Bible, the only aspect of God’s will that must be known, the only aspect that can be known, is God’s moral will. And 100% of God’s moral will – not 80%, not 90%, but 100% – has been revealed in the Bible."

See, this is the type of position that drives me crazy.

When we limit God to a specific list of books. (Five major lists, to be more accurate.)
When we unilaterally declare one of these lists to be God's list, inerrant and infallible.
When we decide on one specific collection of manuscripts or another, and give it that mantle of "God's own."
So, when the publishing houses finally develop the courage to drop the last thirteen verses of Mark, will that mean that the percentage will go from 100% to 99.7%? (or maybe it was 102% before and...)

God most certainly can be found in the pages of the bibles. (All of them.)

But 100% of God's moral will has been revealed to us through every possible avenue. I keep harping on Rom 1:19-20. but elsewhere in the bibles we read that even the rocks would clamor for Justice.


If the only reason you know "Jesus loves you" is because "the bible tells you so," we are in deep trouble.

Believing that God's moral will is 100% revealed in Scripture does not limit God Himself. God has revealed Himself through other avenues, but where has he revealed - outside of Scripture - His commands? Believing that His commands (His moral will) are only found in Scripture does not limit God.

[Lady Julian]

(03-01-2012 11:08 AM)GraceThruFaith Wrote:  The second best book I ever read in my life is Decision Making and the Will of God by Garry Friesen.

Side note, but I also really liked that book; I found it very freeing after spending my childhood and teens worrying that if I even made one decision wrong, even something as simple as which college I went to, I'd throw off God's will for the rest of my life.

It's nice to have choices.

[senda wales]

When you view God's will as following a few basic principles for HOW to live your life, and not a set of rules and standards for every single choice, it's both very freeing and a little scary realizing that actually, God gives YOU the power and responsibility to make your own choices. Your choices and circumstances in life don't necessarily have grand, cosmic reasons behind them. They just are. Again, this is both freeing (there's not so much pressure) and scary (if I choose to do one thing or another, the responsibility is mine for living my own life, for better or for worse).

(03-01-2012 03:45 PM)Lady Julian Wrote:  

(03-01-2012 11:08 AM)GraceThruFaith Wrote:  The second best book I ever read in my life is Decision Making and the Will of God by Garry Friesen.

Side note, but I also really liked that book; I found it very freeing after spending my childhood and teens worrying that if I even made one decision wrong, even something as simple as which college I went to, I'd throw off God's will for the rest of my life.

It's nice to have choices.

I got through the first third of this book and enjoyed it. Not sure I'm going to bother finishing - I got the point.

[beensetfree]

(02-29-2012 08:50 AM)pastors wife Wrote:  I agree with what you said, beensetfree.

Some people like the excitement and the mysticism of the "magical" search for God's "special place" for them. But for realists or pessimists, it can be discouraging and a temptation to fatalism.

My dad, as fundy as they come, gave me some great advice when I was panicking about where to go to college. He said that if my heart's desire was truly to obey God, I should make the wisest decision I could based on research, advice, preferences, etc. God could work THROUGH my choices, directing me that way, or He could STOP me and close a door if I was headed in a "wrong direction", but He didn't want me hestitating in fear and worry lest I choose wrongly in some mysterious heavenly game of chance.

Another weakness in the idea that "God has something special for me; I just have to find it" is that sometimes people use it as an excuse to get out of the situation they're in. For example, they marry thinking they've found the right person. But then life gets hard and the excitement of romantic love fades and instead of seeking to woo their spouse and renew love, they decide, "I must have made a mistake. THIS person wasn't God's perfect will for me! I gave up too soon! Now I'm justified in leaving my spouse so I can go out and try to find the person God REALLY wanted for me!!!" Even if they don't get divorced, they can view their spouse with bitterness, feeling like they settled for God's second-best instead of God's first choice.

I just think for some personalities that type of thinking that you described can lead to desperation or apathy.

Thanks, much to be gleaned here. It sounds like your dad gave you excellent counsel in this area.

[beensetfree]

(03-01-2012 11:08 AM)GraceThruFaith Wrote:  The second best book I ever read in my life is Decision Making and the Will of God by Garry Friesen.

If you're looking for a summary of that book for free and written into course notes and handouts, you can visit The Objective Gospel (not affiliated)

The idea of an individual will of God for every detail of a person’s life is not found in Scripture. The best way to imagine the traditional view is like a target with a dot in the middle, the dot signifying God's perfect individual will for your life. Anything outside the dot may be fine, but you still missed the perfect plan God had for you. Does Scripture teach the Dot? Friesen says no and has an entire chapter dissecting the common verses that people use to prove the Dot.

Several of my favorite quotes from the book:

The problem with the traditional view is not that it recognizes the reality of inner impressions, but that it requires too much of them. Since it is impossible to define with certainty either their source or their meaning, it is also impossible to derive from them objective guidance to the “right” decision. God’s Word does not grant authority to subjective sources of knowledge. We must not either.

We should be able to explain and defend our final decision on the basis of moral guidance (“God’s Word says…”) and wisdom guidance (“It seemed best…”)

The traditional view has inadvertently invented a new category of revelation and authority

Inner impressions are not supernatural revelation, nor are they authoritative

According to the Bible, the only aspect of God’s will that must be known, the only aspect that can be known, is God’s moral will. And 100% of God’s moral will – not 80%, not 90%, but 100% – has been revealed in the Bible.

God’s Word does not tell us what to decide in every situation; it teaches us how to come to a decision that is acceptable to God.

Human success is not automatic proof, or Jeremiah was never in God’s will. When Paul and Silas obeyed the Macedonian call, they were beaten and thrown in jail…The traditional view has no other basis for defining confirmation.

God is more concerned about who we are than what we do; He focuses more on our character than our conduct. We want to know what God wants us to do; God wants us to know Him.

Thanks. After reading this and the other posters positive review, I'm going to check out this book. Though I pretty much have grown away from superstitious views of God on my own just by reading Scripture. He is mysterious but He has also chosen to reveal much information about Himself and I trust what He has said in Scripture.